Mass clear out?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 hours ago, Rudy T said:

Not many of them are worthy of playing for Hearts regardless. It depends on what a decent club is too them I suppose, none appear to have much ambition.

 

For me we have:

 

Gordon

Smith

Kingsley 

McEneff
GMS

Boyce

Gnando

 

The rest can go, but that’s some rebuild again.

I’m really not sure about GMS. He looks dogshit. But we’ve only just signed him so what can we do?

[Sertse]

The more that go the better. Start with Damour and go from there. I'd miss none of these players bar Gordon.

[Nookie Bear]

5 minutes ago, Berra than you said:

Well there we go. I have to say that's surprised me somewhat but just goes to show you need all the info before making a judgement. Also in fairness, the number of players signed at the start of budges reign was forced. Likewise, I think that list of players shouldn't include players at the club when she took over, or player that came through the academy as these are not transfers, albeit they are 'players used'.

 

I think the Aberdeen list also counts academy products as 'new' signings. Someone else can trawl through it though!

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, EIEIO said:

Can't disagree,  nobody can , but am I being hopelessly optimistic in saying Gnaduillet and McEneff are looking like good signings? My point being Joe Savage starting to have influence in the recruitment.  I may be clutching at straws though.

Gordon, Smith , Boyce, Kingsley are decent Premiership players GMS and Walker keep, plus a fit again Souttar, Gnaduillet and McEneff. This would give us the good basis of a top half Premiership squad.

I think it's too early to call on McEneff and Gnando tbh.. 

 

From what I've read on Blackpool and Chesterfield forums, their comments about Gnando weren't exactly positive but he's looked like he can score if he gets service in the box. 

 

McEneff seems to have been well thought of at his previous clubs though and he has shown promise in parts. 

 

Neither of them have been tested at SPL level yet so we can't really say whether they can make a difference next season. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, Sertse said:

The more that go the better. Start with Damour and go from there. I'd miss none of these players bar Gordon.

I agree and Gordon is getting towards 40

 

The Budge regime is a massive facepalm

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Dusk_Till_Dawn

[Robbo-Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Just pleased we only gave him two years. Will be difficult to move in the summer but at least it’s not a four year special

Ffs, hoping it was only a year but had a funny feeling it was longer. 😕

[Sertse]

3 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I agree and Gordon is getting towards 40

 

The Budge regime is a massive facepalm

 

To be fair goalies are getting older nowadays but I can't see us keeping him after next season he'll probably take a well earned retirement.

It's mental the level our players are supposed to be Vs what they actually are.

[Beni]

20 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Means nothing without context to other  teams tho. 

 

Is that a lot, average for a team, or less tha average in terms of turnover. 

 

It looks horrendous, but without context hard to judge imo. 

 

 

 

Hearts had a playing squad of 35 last season, the second highest in the league. Only Celtic had more with 36 players.

 

After 30 games Celtic were awarded the title, and

Hearts were demoted.

So the 10 other teams who weren't demoted managed to achieve that with smaller squads.

 

There's your context.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, Sertse said:

To be fair goalies are getting older nowadays but I can't see us keeping him after next season he'll probably take a well earned retirement.

It's mental the level our players are supposed to be Vs what they actually are.

Hopefully Savage can spot a keeper because no other ****er at Tynecastle can

[GinRummy]

Just now, fancy a brew said:

 

Hearts had a playing squad of 35 last season, the second highest in the league. Only Celtic had more with 36 players.

 

After 30 games Celtic were awarded the title, and

Hearts were demoted.

So the 10 other teams who weren't demoted managed to achieve that with smaller squads.

 

There's your context.

I think that leads nicely onto the scale of the problems Neilson had when he first came back. I've not been impressed with him lately but the squad he inherited was a  bloated, uneven mess. The deals players are on has been widely condemned on here, both length of contracts and bonus structure. 

 

He's made some poor signings but at least most of them have been in positions we needed players for.

[Jammy T]

I guess we cant moan about the squad, then moan about the idea of a rebuild.

 

Its patently obvious one is needed, and its patently obvious that a promoted manager will not get the sack, so it will be Robbie that leads that rebuild.

 

The difference is that next year it will be the first SPL shopping window without Levein, and with Savage. We have got to hope that does make a difference. Whilst who we have signed for this season have largely underperformed, at least we can see that Neilson has been trying to focus on attacking players.

 

The problem with proper effective attacking players and what we can attract in the position we are currently in makes it a difficult market I would assume - much easier for us to attract better attacking players when back in the SPL, and the prospect of fans back etc etc.

 

The point about rebuilding in Covid, in the Championship in a shortened league made above is a good one. IMO we have done well to get who we did this season and it is a means to an end.

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Jammy T

[stevie1874]

53 minutes ago, Locky said:

This only makes the 'Neilson out' crowd look a bit more knee-jerk and silly. I think we all know, or should at least, that this is nowhere near the finished article in terms of squad.

 

Robbie inherited a lot of shite, and tried to clear as much as possible, but it's not as easy as just saying 'I want him gone'. Look at Damour for example. Just sat back taking a wage for **** all, and we can't even give him away.

 

Robbie's 'style' is far from aesthetically pleasing with this squad, but I've said the same for weeks now, give it time, and give him a chance.

Robbie has been given the chance because he works better with Ann Budge not because it’s better for our club. The previous manager whatever your thoughts on him are, was never given a proper chance and that’s what irks me in all this. We’ve went back to the easy option, with give it time it will come good eventually ringing in our ears. Same old sound bites I’m afraid. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

9 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Robbie has been given the chance because he works better with Ann Budge not because it’s better for our club. The previous manager whatever your thoughts on him are, was never given a proper chance and that’s what irks me in all this. We’ve went back to the easy option, with give it time it will come good eventually ringing in our ears. Same old sound bites I’m afraid. 

Yup.

 

”it’ll get better.”

 

Except it never does.

 

Snoreson just the latest instalment in the Shan Budge snoozeathon.

[WageThief]

Why do threads have different titles when they all contain the same thing?

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Yup.

 

”it’ll get better.”

 

Except it never does.

 

Snoreson just the latest instalment in the Shan Budge snoozeathon.

We should just hire your manager nominee, Carlos from Huddersfield, who was looking for a goalkeeper and signed none other than

 

 

JOEL PEREIRA

 

Disclaimer - I am in no way condoning or criticising RN

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

We should just hire your manager nominee, Carlos from Huddersfield, who was looking for a goalkeeper and signed none other than

 

 

JOEL PEREIRA

 

Disclaimer - I am in no way condoning or criticising RN

Good coach though. Very good coach. That’s the difference.

[SM Sheffield]

Aiming to be challenging for the top 6? That is the absolute bare minimum Hearts should be looking at as a club and even then that’s a failure in my book. 6th place isn’t anywhere near where Hearts should be.
 

He is right to say that players are playing for the futures and Halkett is one of several who should be firmly under the microscope. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, SM Sheffield said:

Aiming to be challenging for the top 6? That is the absolute bare minimum Hearts should be looking at as a club and even then that’s a failure in my book. 6th place isn’t anywhere near where Hearts should be.
 

He is right to say that players are playing for the futures and Halkett is one of several who should be firmly under the microscope. 

Top six is fine in my view, as long as we have seasons here and there where we push a bit higher. I don’t expect us to be bang in contention for everything. I just don’t accept us being as utterly gash as we are

[Captain Canada]

Our medium term aim should be to qualify for Europe every season and try to progress as far as possible. 

 

That won't happen with the current squad of players. There are maybe a handful worth keeping and the rest should be cleared out. 

[Bazzas right boot]

37 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Hearts had a playing squad of 35 last season, the second highest in the league. Only Celtic had more with 36 players.

 

After 30 games Celtic were awarded the title, and

Hearts were demoted.

So the 10 other teams who weren't demoted managed to achieve that with smaller squads.

 

There's your context.

 

That's not context in regards numbers tho over that time. 

Quality and mgt of said signings is a different matter which the league table put into context and no one is questioning or argueing about. 

 

 

 

 

[iwasthere1954]

28 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Robbie has been given the chance because he works better with Ann Budge not because it’s better for our club. The previous manager whatever your thoughts on him are, was never given a proper chance and that’s what irks me in all this. We’ve went back to the easy option, with give it time it will come good eventually ringing in our ears. Same old sound bites I’m afraid. 

Thè previous manager had plenty of time to save us. It took him far too long too realise the goalkeeper was useless. That cost us a lot of points. Apart from the Hibs game and the Rangers cup tie I wasn't really sure of his ability to get us out of our predicament. His final game against St Mirren was a shocker.

[Rocky jamboa]

We might want a complete re-build but as we've seen with Damour, it will be easier said than done. These guys will never get a better gig than Hearts, or a better wage, so they will no doubt run their contracts down. 

 

It could be another 2-3 years until we get most of them away. Also, judging by some of the dross neilson has brought in so far, would you have any confidence in him overseeing a re-build? I wouldn't. 

 

Be good to get rid of some of the big earners, such as naismith and damour. Neither really contributing much for the cash they'll likely be on

 

[Auldbenches]

53 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I agree and Gordon is getting towards 40

 

The Budge regime is a massive facepalm

 

The budge era is Parker all over again but more money wasted.  

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, iwasthere1954 said:

Thè previous manager had plenty of time to save us. It took him far too long too realise the goalkeeper was useless. That cost us a lot of points. Apart from the Hibs game and the Rangers cup tie I wasn't really sure of his ability to get us out of our predicament. His final game against St Mirren was a shocker.

I don't believe he was given the right amount of time. Not aimed at you but it's surprising how quickly folk forget what a mess the club was in when Stendel took over. The game against St Mirren wasn't the first time the team had played like that last season either. McPhee and Levein both had games where we performed as badly. Games against St Johnstone spring to mind. 

 

Agree about Joel Pereira though. Crazy decision to continue with him.

[iwasthere1954]

1 hour ago, Auldbenches said:

Wouldn't it have been better to have two or three on pre contracts if a rebuild is needed to get them in early for pre season?  

We could be spending precious time looking for the players that we need.

I'll be disappointed if we aren't signing most of the players we need as soon as we can rather than just as the season is starting.

 

 

I suppose we can't really take a chance on pre contracts until we've won the league. Still plenty of time after that.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

13 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Top six is fine in my view, as long as we have seasons here and there where we push a bit higher. I don’t expect us to be bang in contention for everything. I just don’t accept us being as utterly gash as we are

I don’t think it is. I hate that any measure of success in Scotland is based on a bullshit “split”.

 

Our stated aim should be that we are working towards the club challenging for the league. If some ex centre half from Livingston is still in the Livingston mindset of “getting into the top 6”, no wonder we have issues.

 

This club has proven - when Rangers and Celtic were much stronger - that we can challenge when it all comes together and that should be our stated aim and we only want players that believe in that.

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, iwasthere1954 said:

I suppose we can't really take a chance on pre contracts until we've won the league. Still plenty of time after that.

Was thinking that while posting, but surely we're unsure of getting promoted.  I though we were looking at someone in January.  Might've been the kilmarnock player. 

[Rogue Daddy]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don't believe he was given the right amount of time. Not aimed at you but it's surprising how quickly folk forget what a mess the club was in when Stendel took over. The game against St Mirren wasn't the first time the team had played like that last season either. McPhee and Levein both had games where we performed as badly. Games against St Johnstone spring to mind. 

 

Agree about Joel Pereira though. Crazy decision to continue with him.

I agree with you, he didn't get the time.

With regards to JP though, I honestly think there were other issues going on there... I'm mean DS wasn't stupid and he would have come to the same conclusion as the entire support, as to the performances JP was giving. There must have been something else going on there IMO.

[JamboAl]

29 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Good coach though. Very good coach. That’s the difference.

There have been many good coaches who couldn't cut it as a manager and your protege Carlos seems to be proving that as Huddersfield hover just above the drop zone in the English second tier.  Their fans must be having a real snorefest!

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

14 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I don’t think it is. I hate that any measure of success in Scotland is based on a bullshit “split”.

 

Our stated aim should be that we are working towards the club challenging for the league. If some ex centre half from Livingston is still in the Livingston mindset of “getting into the top 6”, no wonder we have issues.

 

This club has proven - when Rangers and Celtic were much stronger - that we can challenge when it all comes together and that should be our stated aim and we only want players that believe in that.

I wouldn’t disagree. I just accept that it ebbs and flows

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

There have been many good coaches who couldn't cut it as a manager and your protege Carlos seems to be proving that as Huddersfield hover just above the drop zone in the English second tier.  Their fans must be having a real snorefest!

There’s a bigger picture there. They’re a bit of a mess as a club. I was surprised he wanted to go there tbh.

[Jodami]

Halkett can go, his only saving grace was goalscoring and that's disappeared. The only worthwhile clear out would be led by Savage and start in the dug out. Will obviously never happen though. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Jodami

[Whitburn Hearts]

 

Hearts have the ability to make Messi look pish . 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, Whitburn Hearts said:

 

Hearts have the ability to make Messi look pish . 

Neilson would play him at centre back, or name him in the bench

[mitch41]

I hope the mass clear-out talk isn't just a smoke screen because I'm sure the way things are going there will be crowds allowed into stadiums in August which means Season Tickets will go on sale in the next few months.

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

There’s a bigger picture there. They’re a bit of a mess as a club. I was surprised he wanted to go there tbh.

I looked at the bigger picture and here is what I found

 

- as a manager of 3 clubs he has a win rate of less than 3 in every 10 games.  That's just what we fans are looking for, eh?

- he is a former goalie so you'd think he'd be able to recognise a keeper.  Pereira??

- many will say (and I'm not supporting RN here) that Neilson took over a mess and he's top of the league.

 

BTW i agree with you that the quality of foutball we are producing leaves a bit to be desired but Ithere's little to convince me that your man is the answer to our prayers.

[Ex member of the SaS]

The problem with saying top six is the top two places are taken before the league kicks off that leaves four places and they should include Us, the Sheep, Hibs and one between Motherwell, Killie and St J./DDutd. All the rest are fodder or at least should be.

With our resources we should never be bottom six and should never again be toiling with play off's or the drop.

[JamboAl]

6 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I hope the mass clear-out talk isn't just a smoke screen because I'm sure the way things are going there will be crowds allowed into stadiums in August which means Season Tickets will go on sale in the next few months.

Don't want to rain on your parade but, as has been discussed many times on here, getting rid of players is easier said than done eg Damour.

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Halliday struggles in this league so God help him in the top league. 

 

Only role for him next season is cover for Kingsley at lb 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Just pleased we only gave him two years. Will be difficult to move in the summer but at least it’s not a four year special

Once he is told his only role will be second choice left back he will leave. 

[Deodato]

5 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I wonder if the fact players know they are on shaky ground could be affecting performances.

That's proper 'chicken and egg' material there mate. 

 

[Cruyff]

Just now, JamboAl said:

Don't want to rain on your parade but, as has been discussed many times on here, getting rid of players is easier said than done eg Damour.

Indeed. Someone has to want them. Certain players are not going to leave while they are earning a cooshtie salary every month for doing nothing. Hence why Damour is still here and why it took us an age to move on the likes of Oshaniwa & Martin. 

 

Players that probably see themselves as first team players and want to play regularly but are not in favour here will probably be easier to shift. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Deodato said:

That's proper 'chicken and egg' material there mate. 

 

Haha. Aye I know. Could go back and forth with that one all day. 

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, heartmussel said:

More or less talked about this after Inverness game,we can all see AGAIN it’s needed but some pressure already in a tricky few weeks ahead.Brought this all on ourselves,thank goodness they are all dropping points around us.

There’s no pressure on them, that’s part of the problem. They have skooshed the league from day 1 playing with the handbrake on. 
We saw how they competed with the handbrake off in two cup ties. Night and day from league performances with only one or two exceptions but again games where they needed to make a statement eg opener against Dundee and Starks Park after losing to them week before. The lousy, slow football is all because they know 60-70% effort will be good enough. Further evidence is number of times we have scored last goal of game to either win or draw. They can do it when they want. Robbie must be as frustrated as we are that he can’t get some of them to go out and give 100% every week. Doesnt have the depth in squad to drop some of them either. Strong words in dressing after Inverness, according to Craig Gordon, so could be different this weekend. 

[Last Laff]

He's much better than the Romanian huddy.  

 

Another transitional season full of excuses ahead. 

[jr ewing]

4 hours ago, Rudy T said:

Begs the question how many know or think they’re going and are simply going through the motions.

The ones whose contracts end this season. 

[Last Laff]

35 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Don't want to rain on your parade but, as has been discussed many times on here, getting rid of players is easier said than done eg Damour.

 

Well done Warnock completely conning us tbh. 

[jr ewing]

29 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Once he is told his only role will be second choice left back he will leave. 

Not for better money. 

[Rick Sanchez]

I don't want you all talking about it (again) after the game like a wee therapy session.

 

None. Absolutely none of our so called leaders can grab a game by the scruff and tell folk how it is. Or don't do it any more.

 

Gordon - tries but doesn't have an impact.

 

Smith - done it during the Levein/MacPhee/Stendel era's but has given up.

 

Berra - gave up.

 

Halkett - likes to look like he cares but couldn't really give a ****.

 

Naismith - gave up.

 

The rest like to coast on by with no responsibility. Absolutely none of them give a ****. Get the latter 3 in the bin.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

37 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Once he is told his only role will be second choice left back he will leave. 

Probably only via us paying him off