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Mass clear out?


GinRummy

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18 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

The Topic is Mass Clear Out ?  

I know the topic is Mass Clear Out.

That's why I posted that it's not always easy.

If the players you want rid of are still under contract and decide to sit tight, how are you going to effect a clearout?

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37 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

There are arguments both ways here.

If you were a star player being courted by HMFC and you had a wife and 2 young children you would probably want a high basic/low bonus for security rather than the other way round where you'd have to rely on 10 (excl subs) other individuals to maximise your earnings.

Which would you choose in these circumstances or would would you seek a better offer elsewhere?

 

Most other clubs in Scotland haven't gone down this route, and comparing our wage bill and results to theirs let's you know why.

A journeyman at Hamilton or St Mirren worried about his family's finances is going to be more effective than an international player at Hearts sitting on a stonking wage with a 4 year deal in his back pocket.

Based on the results of the last few years I can't see an argument for continuing with the previous wage structure, and Budge is also of this opinion otherwise she wouldn't have changed it.

THe hangover from this policy still has a couple of years to run unfortunately.

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14 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Most other clubs in Scotland haven't gone down this route, and comparing our wage bill and results to theirs let's you know why.

A journeyman at Hamilton or St Mirren worried about his family's finances is going to be more effective than an international player at Hearts sitting on a stonking wage with a 4 year deal in his back pocket.

Based on the results of the last few years I can't see an argument for continuing with the previous wage structure, and Budge is also of this opinion otherwise she wouldn't have changed it.

THe hangover from this policy still has a couple of years to run unfortunately.

What most other clubs do is irrelevant.  We should do what is deemed best for HMFC who are a far bigger club than most other clubs in the Scottish leagues.

Based on the results this season the changed system does not seem to be working too well either.  Although we are top we should be be beating teams like Alloa and producing better football even in games we are winning or drawing.  You mention stonking wages but can you back this up with figures and what happens when a player suffers a long term injury or family difficulties like Doyle seems to have had.  If you go to the threads where Irving's situation is discussed you will see some fans suggest we give him what he is asking for.  Maybe he would already be signed if we hadn't changed the system.  As I  said originally, there are arguments for and against and it is a bit naive to imply that the wage structure is a material factor for previous bad results.

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3 hours ago, stevie1874 said:

Sorry but I’d rather our manager made tough calls than pandering to senior pros on a downward spiral. If they don’t like it then they can find another club. Hearts should not be an easy place to earn a living. Stendel was at least correct re Berra who was past his best. 

Nielson has been making those calls. Bobby out, Wighton out, Berra out, Haring out, Frear out, Roberts out. Last two must have been really tough calls given he brought them in. 

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14 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

What most other clubs do is irrelevant

 

Really? We can't learn anything from the 11 teams that managed to evade demotion?

 

16 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Based on the results this season the changed system does not seem to be working too well either. 

 

As I mentioned earlier the hangover from this wage structure will take a while to cure. With half the team playing for win bonuses and half not, it doesn't make for great team dynamics.

 

19 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

You mention stonking wages but can you back this up with figures and what happens when a player suffers a long term injury or family difficulties like Doyle seems to have had

 

Here's what Damour said about signing.

"Hearts showed great interest in me and offered me a contract I couldn't refuse when I was 28". 

So whether that falls into the stonking category or not, you'd be naive not to suspect it was a very healthy wage.

 

You don't need to believe me about the wage structure, but here's what Ann Budge had to say about it.

 

“I did look at the model we have for paying players,” she explained. “I had taken the view that we should pay a fair wage for a job rather than this guy gets a bonus for one thing and another guy gets a bonus for something else.

“I had changed that when I came in [in 2014] and that put a lot of pressure on us when we had a lot of players out injured. They were still getting paid, which would have happened anyway but they wouldn't have been paid quite so much.

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-unveil-plans-new-first-team-wage-structure-2955130?amp

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18 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Really? We can't learn anything from the 11 teams that managed to evade demotion?

We can learn from EVERY team but ultimately we must do what is best for Hearts.  I'm glad you used the word "demotion" which IMO arose from a variety of causes such as key injuries, bad reffing, changes of managers/squad and not solely to the wage structure.

 

As I mentioned earlier the hangover from this wage structure will take a while to cure. With half the team playing for win bonuses and half not, it doesn't make for great team dynamics.

I agree it will take a while to cure but you're making a huge assumption that it will work better and only time will tell.  As I said it's not faring too well so far even in a lower division.

 

Here's what Damour said about signing.

"Hearts showed great interest in me and offered me a contract I couldn't refuse when I was 28". 

So whether that falls into the stonking category or not, you'd be naive not to suspect it was a very healthy wage.

You'd also be naive to believe it might not have been the length of the contract rather than the wage structure that attracted him.  I may add that I, and many others, were enthusiastic when I read we had signed a MF with experience in the top 2 divisions of English football.  How did you feel at that time?

You don't need to believe me about the wage structure, but here's what Ann Budge had to say about it.

 

“I did look at the model we have for paying players,” she explained. “I had taken the view that we should pay a fair wage for a job rather than this guy gets a bonus for one thing and another guy gets a bonus for something else.

“I had changed that when I came in [in 2014] and that put a lot of pressure on us when we had a lot of players out injured. They were still getting paid, which would have happened anyway but they wouldn't have been paid quite so much.

Her otiginal gripe was that players were being paid bonuses for different things which is hardly a structure at all.  She altered this and, unfairly IMO, introduced a system that pays less to injured players.  Players will therefore think twice about making last ditch tackles knowing injury will deprive them of wages.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-unveil-plans-new-first-team-wage-structure-2955130?amp

As I said originally there are 2 sides to this issue.

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Japan Jambo
On 01/03/2021 at 09:32, This is My Story Podcast said:

Honestly, we need to break this culture at the club. It’s not acceptable to just write off the rubbish we see week in, week out by saying it’s gonna get better down the line. Something at the club isn’t working. Is it pressure from above and demand for results. Is savage under pressure? Is Robbie under pressure? Is the scouting department, recruitment team under pressure? How come Cathro, Levein, Stendel and now Robbie all get rebuilds sanctioned from the top brass. We’ve signed 98 players since Budge took over. We average 6 players a transfer window. That’s mental. Even more mental is when you factor in that we’ve maybe had 6 transfer fees across the board, Hickey and Sow the only transfer fees to write home about, although we did get money for Rossi that was supposedly worth a lot. We’ve had near 15 million pounds worth of benefactor monies over the years to cover holes in the funding. We need a proper strategic plan. We can’t just keep writing off seasons and half seasons in hope that rebuilds dig us out a hole. 

 

Absolutely, throwing money at the wall constantly isn't a plan.

 

Fewer better players. Recruit for attitude, work ethic and potential and not just what they did for someone else when they were younger. Bring in coaches worthy of the name and make part of their compensation related to how the collective squad have appreciated in value. It's way past time folks were held accountable for doing their job properly.

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10 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I may add that I, and many others, were enthusiastic when I read we had signed a MF with experience in the top 2 divisions of English football.  How did you feel at that time?

 

I was very happy at the prospect of him joining, just like I was with Whelan, Vanecek, Hughes, Naismith, Boyce, GMS...

One or two disappointing marquee signings could be seen as unfortunate, the number we've had looks more like a worrying pattern.

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1 minute ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I was very happy at the prospect of him joining, just like I was with Whelan, Vanecek, Hughes, Naismith, Boyce, GMS...

One or two disappointing marquee signings could be seen as unfortunate, the number we've had looks more like a worrying pattern.

The argument that fans were happy with these signings isn’t really an argument at all. So what if we’re happy when Damour signed. We aren’t the ones getting paid to recruit these donkeys. Let’s not glaze over it by saying ‘well, you were all happy enough at the time’.

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12 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The argument that fans were happy with these signings isn’t really an argument at all. So what if we’re happy when Damour signed. We aren’t the ones getting paid to recruit these donkeys. Let’s not glaze over it by saying ‘well, you were all happy enough at the time’.

 

I agree, l knew diddly squat about Damour before he signed. If I'd ever seen him play I couldn't remember it, but he looked like a good signing on paper. I take no responsibility for his signing not being successful. 😆

Fortunately he's still got 2 1/2 years left to repay the faith Levein showed in him.

:muggy:

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16 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I agree, l knew diddly squat about Damour before he signed. If I'd ever seen him play I couldn't remember it, but he looked like a good signing on paper. I take no responsibility for his signing not being successful. 😆

Fortunately he's still got 2 1/2 years left to repay the faith Levein showed in him.

:muggy:

Ffs. I thought it was just 1 1/2 years. 😢

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2 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I was very happy at the prospect of him joining, just like I was with Whelan, Vanecek, Hughes, Naismith, Boyce, GMS...

One or two disappointing marquee signings could be seen as unfortunate, the number we've had looks more like a worrying pattern.

Yes but not only marquee signings. eg Frear and Roberts who were presumably signed under the new wage structure.  We also made some good signings under the old structure such as Smith, Souttar, McLaughlin and many more.

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20 hours ago, Voice of reason said:

Hearts were 2 good penalties away from winning the Scottish Cup. Would that have made Neilson an incredible manager? Winning cups can be a bit of a lottery to be honest so I’m not putting the St Johnstone manager up on a pedestal just now. 
 

...as for Jordan Roberts - surely you’re not being serious? He was very poor at Hearts. One good game for Motherwell and the club has made a horrendous mistake in letting him go on loan? Not buying that.

It’s not the fact that he was shite with us it’s the fact another manager is getting a tune out of him in the league above, and we only signed him a few months earlier, there are several players not playing well but weren’t stuck out on loan 

 it’s  very relevant what’s happening at St J in their most recent games unlucky to be beaten by both Celtic and rangers by the odd goal, gubbed Hibs and drew with Aberdeen and won the cup utilising the players he had plus adding a few additions our team has several internationalists and struggles to play for more than 15 mins in any game against virtual part timers 

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10 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I know the topic is Mass Clear Out.

That's why I posted that it's not always easy.

If the players you want rid of are still under contract and decide to sit tight, how are you going to effect a clearout?

And am I arguing about that No because that’s obvious

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5 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Ffs. I thought it was just 1 1/2 years. 😢

Levein's damage will take years to repair.

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Voice of reason
1 hour ago, qferryjam said:

It’s not the fact that he was shite with us it’s the fact another manager is getting a tune out of him in the league above, and we only signed him a few months earlier, there are several players not playing well but weren’t stuck out on loan 

 it’s  very relevant what’s happening at St J in their most recent games unlucky to be beaten by both Celtic and rangers by the odd goal, gubbed Hibs and drew with Aberdeen and won the cup utilising the players he had plus adding a few additions our team has several internationalists and struggles to play for more than 15 mins in any game against virtual part timers 

 
Jordan Roberts seems to have a record of starting okay at clubs then fades. He was okay for us for the first few games as well. Scoring against Hibs is not much of an achievement either! 🙂 Let’s see if he can put a run of a dozen good games together before using him as a stick to hit the Hearts manager with.

 

People massively overrate the Premiership and underrate the Championship in my opinion. Both the current Motherwell and St Johnstone teams would struggle to win the Championship in much the same way as we, Rangers, Hibs and Dundee United have. They both also play ugly and non-entertaining football so hardly inspiring managers at either club. We deservedly beat third placed Hibs, and drew with 2nd placed Celtic over 120 minutes. It’s small margins. Calling championship players part-timers when there are only 2 part-time teams in the league is just lazy to try and make a point. They are often hardened pros who know how to make it hard for most teams, and often on horrendous pitches.
 

The players in the championship virtually all could be Premiership players with a wee break here or there in their careers. Getting a move to the giants of Hamilton and Ross County is hardly beyond most of the Raith, Dunfermline, Dundee or Inverness players. Basically, the top 2 leagues in Scotland are almost equally poor in summary, apart from Rangers and Celtic.

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14 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

 
Jordan Roberts seems to have a record of starting okay at clubs then fades. He was okay for us for the first few games as well. Scoring against Hibs is not much of an achievement either! 🙂 Let’s see if he can put a run of a dozen good games together before using him as a stick to hit the Hearts manager with.

 

People massively overrate the Premiership and underrate the Championship in my opinion. Both the current Motherwell and St Johnstone teams would struggle to win the Championship in much the same way as we, Rangers, Hibs and Dundee United have. They both also play ugly and non-entertaining football so hardly inspiring managers at either club. We deservedly beat third placed Hibs, and drew with 2nd placed Celtic over 120 minutes. It’s small margins. Calling championship players part-timers when there are only 2 part-time teams in the league is just lazy to try and make a point. They are often hardened pros who know how to make it hard for most teams, and often on horrendous pitches.
 

The players in the championship virtually all could be Premiership players with a wee break here or there in their careers. Getting a move to the giants of Hamilton and Ross County is hardly beyond most of the Raith, Dunfermline, Dundee or Inverness players. Basically, the top 2 leagues in Scotland are almost equally poor in summary, apart from Rangers and Celtic.

Mate I don’t know if your taking the piss but under rated championship? We played Ayr which is basically an under 21 side with 3 Rangers laddies playing regularly a couple of journeymen thrown in and the team was chucked together when the league dates were confirmed and they aren’t alone in that , we should not be dropping points never mind losing games , the team has again massively underperformed so far this season 

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WheatfieldWarrior
23 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Got 2 super crocks to come back next season (for a few games) in Brandon and Souttar.

 

Maybe they'll return every bit as sharp as Haring?

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Voice of reason
16 hours ago, qferryjam said:

Mate I don’t know if your taking the piss but under rated championship? We played Ayr which is basically an under 21 side with 3 Rangers laddies playing regularly a couple of journeymen thrown in and the team was chucked together when the league dates were confirmed and they aren’t alone in that , we should not be dropping points never mind losing games , the team has again massively underperformed so far this season 

That’ll be the Ayr team that finished above Hamilton, from the super duper Premiership, in the league cup group stages? You are giving the appallingly low standard of the premiership far too much credence in my opinion. Both leagues are poor albeit, of course, the premiership is a bit better overall. Hardly night and day though from watching all the eye-bleeding live top-flight games I’ve seen this season.

 

Also living in a fantasy world if you think any team will ever win every match in the championship. Even the mighty and heavily financed Rangers took 2 years to get out of it (Hibs 3 years) and never got close to winning every match even in their promotion season. Set realistic expectations and you’ll enjoy following the football a lot more. 👍

Edited by Voice of reason
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gashauskis9
4 hours ago, Rave MacPherson said:

McEneff has played for about 5mins ffs. 

And has shown more in those 5 mins than any player who has played that position in the last 2 years.  

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19 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

And has shown more in those 5 mins than any player who has played that position in the last 2 years.  

I just hope his play doesn’t get increasingly defensive. 

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On 01/03/2021 at 09:24, GinRummy said:

Whether it does or doesn't I'm not totally sure. The two CB's just need to do their job to the level required, regardless of the formation. They really haven't done that consistently for close to three seasons. 

 

4-3-3 is a formation that RN himself said 'would probably suit the players best' so why we haven't seen it yet I have no idea.

Because a midfield 3 wouldn't be capable of playing through the habitual 5 they face. Football is being ruined by tactic of packing the midfield, especially on smaller pitches

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1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Because a midfield 3 wouldn't be capable of playing through the habitual 5 they face. Football is being ruined by tactic of packing the midfield, especially on smaller pitches

How does 4-2-3-1 work better in that regard? All I seem to see is our number 10 dropping back all the time to help the midfield and not doing very well at it. 

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Just now, GinRummy said:

How does 4-2-3-1 work better in that regard? All I seem to see is our number 10 dropping back all the time to help the midfield and not doing very well at it. 

Doesn't TBH...The fashion for one striker is the real problem, as that's what allows the midfield crush...

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2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Doesn't TBH...The fashion for one striker is the real problem, as that's what allows the midfield crush...

So what would you do to try and combat it. 3 at the back? Straightforward 4-4-2 with one winger? I don’t really watch much football outwith Hearts. How do other teams deal with it. 

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3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

So what would you do to try and combat it. 3 at the back? Straightforward 4-4-2 with one winger? I don’t really watch much football outwith Hearts. How do other teams deal with it. 

I really don't know. I'm watching less and less football too...I doubt it is a coicidence.

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2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I really don't know. I'm watching less and less football too...I doubt it is a coicidence.

I never watched much last season tbf but the no fans thing really dilutes the whole thing. You’re lucky if I’ve watched three full games all season plus the odd first half here and there. Just feels so false (wring word but I couldn’t think of a better one).

 

apart from hearts games obv.

Edited by GinRummy
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Lord Beni of Gorgie

Sheffield Wednesday heading for the trap door, looks as if the Paterson bonus has gone. 

 

Would have been a nice contribution to the fund 

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On 02/03/2021 at 13:36, fancy a brew said:

 

Really? We can't learn anything from the 11 teams that managed to evade demotion?

 

 

As I mentioned earlier the hangover from this wage structure will take a while to cure. With half the team playing for win bonuses and half not, it doesn't make for great team dynamics.

 

 

Here's what Damour said about signing.

"Hearts showed great interest in me and offered me a contract I couldn't refuse when I was 28". 

So whether that falls into the stonking category or not, you'd be naive not to suspect it was a very healthy wage.

 

You don't need to believe me about the wage structure, but here's what Ann Budge had to say about it.

 

“I did look at the model we have for paying players,” she explained. “I had taken the view that we should pay a fair wage for a job rather than this guy gets a bonus for one thing and another guy gets a bonus for something else.

“I had changed that when I came in [in 2014] and that put a lot of pressure on us when we had a lot of players out injured. They were still getting paid, which would have happened anyway but they wouldn't have been paid quite so much.

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-unveil-plans-new-first-team-wage-structure-2955130?amp

That was the interview that killed my faith in Budge and made me decide she is utterly clueless...Basically she's an IT entrepreneur not a businesswoman.

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underwaterwoodwelder
On 01/03/2021 at 09:43, Gordon Ramsay said:

 

Agree. 

 

Constant rebuilds. Its just a total mess. 

The club needs to stop buying dud players that are injury prone and have fallen out of contention with their old club.

We buy them very cheap or get them ona free transfer and they normally get injuered very quickly or take months to find fitness. It's a mess.

I obviously can't say all of the players have been like this but it feels that it's the mjority. No identity when to many players come in to the team like this. Hopefully this will change.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
10 hours ago, Spellczech said:

That was the interview that killed my faith in Budge and made me decide she is utterly clueless...Basically she's an IT entrepreneur not a businesswoman.


Correct

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1 hour ago, underwaterwoodwelder said:

The club needs to stop buying dud players that are injury prone and have fallen out of contention with their old club.

We buy them very cheap or get them ona free transfer and they normally get injuered very quickly or take months to find fitness. It's a mess.

I obviously can't say all of the players have been like this but it feels that it's the mjority. No identity when to many players come in to the team like this. Hopefully this will change.

 

I think the club needs to adopt a firmer transfer policy, Ginnelly, (Souttar or even Wighton too) for example, I can see a purpose in signing, he's young enough to still improve and there is potential for a transfer fee if he can build on his early signs. Roberts & Frear aren't ever getting us a transfer fee and are pretty much just a liability as they don't even seem to have raised standards (unlike say, Naismith or Gordon, who clearly do set standards and make demands of their teammates). 

 

We need to think a bit longer than just the current season. Plan should be to promote youth first and foremost, then pursue promising players under the age of 25 from 'lesser teams' or youth products from top clubs who are being released (e.g. Dunne), also internationals over the age of 29 as they can add experience and demand standards of the younger players. I think there is no need to be signing middling journeymen players 25-28 unless they have international caps and there is a real business case for signing them. Guys like Halliday, Lee, Bozanic, Roberts, Frear, Popescu, White etc. have offered very little and none will ever net us a transfer fee. 

 

Did Liverpool not operate some policy along the lines of 'you can have any player you want provided they are 23 or under' ? I think something similar might work here if caveated by looking to add older pro's in alongside them. Similar to the team Sandy Jardine played in for example. Thinking signings like Gordon, Berra, Naismith, Cowie, Hughes, Whelan* types. 

 

*Whelan clearly didn't want to be here and Levein should have spotted that when he was being so difficult around his training routine and not moving up here. 

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With RN now saying all contract discussions are on hold it’s safe to assume that whoever is out of contract come the summer is moving on.

 

 

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Batistuta87
22 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

With RN now saying all contract discussions are on hold it’s safe to assume that whoever is out of contract come the summer is moving on.

 

 

 

Hope so too. Would be slightly concerned if he was looking at any of them and thinking he wanted to keep them around. White is a big maybe but even then I think there's better value to be had elsewhere, so if we have the chance of moving him on and bringing in someone younger and cheaper (or using one of the young lads who are currently out on loan) as backup to Kingsley, then we should. 

 

Edited by Batistuta87
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3 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Hope so too. Would be slightly concerned if he was looking at any of them and thinking he wanted to keep them around. White is a big maybe but even then I think there's better value to be had elsewhere. 

 

White is a funny one. We don't seem to get as many injury updates as we used to so I've no real idea if he has been injured the weeks he hasn't featured on the bench. 

 

If we are going for a smaller squad, players like White, who can cover a couple of positions, could be handy but not if he is injured all the time.

Edited by GinRummy
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25 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

With RN now saying all contract discussions are on hold it’s safe to assume that whoever is out of contract come the summer is moving on.

 

 

 

Sounds like the towel has been chucked in trying to keep Irving.. Annoying. 

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3 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Hope so too. Would be slightly concerned if he was looking at any of them and thinking he wanted to keep them around. White is a big maybe but even then I think there's better value to be had elsewhere. 

 


He’s pretty much telling us and them that these players are free to speak to other clubs.

 

White is a definite no for me......20 appearances in 2 years....the majority of which were distinctly average

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2 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Sounds like the towel has been chucked in trying to keep Irving.. Annoying. 


Hopefully not.....but my gut instinct would be he’s heading elsewhere. 

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28 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

With RN now saying all contract discussions are on hold it’s safe to assume that whoever is out of contract come the summer is moving on.

 

 

Players trying to see yet another manager out the door may not be beyond the realms of possibility.

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Just now, GinRummy said:

Players trying to see yet another manager out the door may not be beyond the realms of possibility.


They are certainly playing like they want a change.......

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Players trying to see yet another manager out the door may not be beyond the realms of possibility.


Tbh, I’d have more respect for this bunch of losers if they did manage to get Snoreson sacked

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Batistuta87
Just now, GinRummy said:

White is a funny one. We don't seem to get as many injury updates as we used to so I've no real idea if he has been injured the weeks he hasn't featured on the bench. 

 

If we are going for a smaller squad, players like White could be handy but not if he is injured all the time.

 

Yeah you're right, I don't know where he's been the last few weeks either but he hasn't been in the squad since Ayr at the beginning of last month. Based on the amount he's played since he arrived and considering his contribution in those games, I would probably let him go to be honest.

 

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8 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:


Tbh, I’d have more respect for this bunch of losers if they did manage to get Snoreson sacked

Snoreson is not going to catch on btw. It just doesn't resemble Neilson enough. 

Edited by GinRummy
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6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Snoreson is not going to catch on btw. It just doesn't resemble Neilson enough. 

Try Naygoodsun. 

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22 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

White is a funny one. We don't seem to get as many injury updates as we used to so I've no real idea if he has been injured the weeks he hasn't featured on the bench. 

 

If we are going for a smaller squad, players like White, who can cover a couple of positions, could be handy but not if he is injured all the time.


I’ve always just gone on the thought that White is injured and we get an update that he’s fit to play every so often.

 

He needs to be binned.

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8 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Snoreson is not going to catch on btw. It just doesn't resemble Neilson enough. 

 

Dusk_Dull_Yawn doesn't need it to catch on.  He'll manage to spew it all over every thread on his own.

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1 minute ago, DH1986 said:


I’ve always just gone on the thought that White is injured and we get an update that he’s fit to play every so often.

 

He needs to be binned.

Probably right. He's done not bad the odd time he's played this season but a smaller squad means we can't afford to keep players we know are likely to be injured a lot.

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1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

I think the club needs to adopt a firmer transfer policy, Ginnelly, (Souttar or even Wighton too) for example, I can see a purpose in signing, he's young enough to still improve and there is potential for a transfer fee if he can build on his early signs. Roberts & Frear aren't ever getting us a transfer fee and are pretty much just a liability as they don't even seem to have raised standards (unlike say, Naismith or Gordon, who clearly do set standards and make demands of their teammates). 

 

We need to think a bit longer than just the current season. Plan should be to promote youth first and foremost, then pursue promising players under the age of 25 from 'lesser teams' or youth products from top clubs who are being released (e.g. Dunne), also internationals over the age of 29 as they can add experience and demand standards of the younger players. I think there is no need to be signing middling journeymen players 25-28 unless they have international caps and there is a real business case for signing them. Guys like Halliday, Lee, Bozanic, Roberts, Frear, Popescu, White etc. have offered very little and none will ever net us a transfer fee. 

 

Did Liverpool not operate some policy along the lines of 'you can have any player you want provided they are 23 or under' ? I think something similar might work here if caveated by looking to add older pro's in alongside them. Similar to the team Sandy Jardine played in for example. Thinking signings like Gordon, Berra, Naismith, Cowie, Hughes, Whelan* types. 

 

*Whelan clearly didn't want to be here and Levein should have spotted that when he was being so difficult around his training routine and not moving up here. 

This post makes a good point.

 

You're quite right it's these middling journeyman who've largely added very little. And maybe some sort of transfer policy would help remedy that.

 

Only thing I would say is malaury Martin had played for France at all age groups, bozanic had a cap for Australia, damour played for France up to u20. So on paper could argue all fitted the bill.

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Howdy Doody Jambo

We should not be going out and signing young promising players, that's what the academy is for to bring through our own 

Transfer fees should be paid for more seasoned pros that have a track record 

Far too many changes to the playing roster for the last 6 seasons have resulted in no very much, piss poor fitbaw and players no giving a flying fcuk 

If Irving doesn't want to sign then we move on, let the others who's contracts are up go, bring in only a few proven players and for goodness sake Hearts leave a pathway or "road map" for homegrown youth players to graduate into the first team from the academy 

It would surely be easier for Savage to bring in only a couple of quality players each transfer window than continually bring in 6 or 7 which has been the template for the last several year's 

Keep it simple, Robbie 

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Just now, Alan_R said:

This post makes a good point.

 

You're quite right it's these middling journeyman who've largely added very little. And maybe some sort of transfer policy would help remedy that.

 

Only thing I would say is malaury Martin had played for France at all age groups, bozanic had a cap for Australia, damour played for France up to u20. So on paper could argue all fitted the bill.

 

You're quite right, every signing constitutes a risk, I was kind of trying to put forward that some criteria should be set in stone to try and guide decision making. We're not going to escape bad signings, but we might be able to reduce the likelihood by following specific rules on who we sign. Take Bozanic for example, we signed him age 30 with 1 international cap from a nation not exactly overflowing with talent. Common sense here suggests we probably shouldn't have done that. No sell on value, and minimal international experience, pretty nomadic career too.  

 

It would also be fair to say that just because a 'big 5' nations player doesn't have international caps it doesn't mean they couldn't succeed here. My hope is that by concentrating on Scottish internationals and primarily Scottish talent we eliminate the risk of them not adapting to the league (like Martin, Osh, Damour, and various more). We need to realise that players failing to adapt to Scottish football means the waste of hundreds of thousands of pounds which we cannot afford. The contempt for money that has been displayed by the football department in recent years has been offensive. 

 

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