***Official ICT v Hearts Matchday thread***

[Hearts1975]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Alex MacDonald took 3.5 - actually getting towards 4 if you consider the start to 85/86.

You do make a good point though. Judging things far too quickly, and when you don’t assess the circumstances correctly, means that you can make the wrong decision. 

 

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

With Washington, Naismith, Souttar, Walker etc back, plus signing Boyce, as Stendel did. I do think Neilson would have kept us up but it's a bit of a pointless discussion as Stendel was the man in charge and he failed dismally. Christ Levein would have kept us up with all those players back plus Boyce who was a player he wanted!

I am not arguing that. I am saying that if AB had the foresight to look past her own nose, and at the time, and actually persevere, she would have created something far better than the alternative direction she has committed to now. 

[Auldbenches]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

With Washington, Naismith, Souttar, Walker etc back, plus signing Boyce, as Stendel did. I do think Neilson would have kept us up but it's a bit of a pointless discussion as Stendel was the man in charge and he failed dismally. Christ Levein would have kept us up with all those players back plus Boyce who was a player he wanted!

You told us levein would be successful and that didn't happen.  You've been saying it's going to get better for two year now and we are getting worse by the week. 

When are you going to accept that we are failing in most departments?  

Tell us what success is for us? 

[Bongo 1874]

3 minutes ago, 2205ian said:

No, he mentioned that he did not see any manager in Scotland doing a better job.

 

SG at The Rangers is so, so, so (add as many as you like) far ahead of the rest in Scotland this season as shown by his team strolling to the title & his continued "success" in European ties.

We had a guy at our club that beat his team twice last season 🤔. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Lucky AB wasn’t in charge back then. AM would have been gone!

 

Kickback and social media would have wanted him out that's for sure.

[2205ian]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

It's genuinely amazing that after decades of watching football and people going on and on about how important home advantage is and a big support, that apparently having no fans doesn't influence performances. Do people genuinely think home advantage refers to the pitch and not the crowd?

It shows in EPL this season where there has been more away wins than home wins!!

 

I agree football without fans is not the same game to watch.

[Bongo 1874]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

With Washington, Naismith, Souttar, Walker etc back, plus signing Boyce, as Stendel did. I do think Neilson would have kept us up but it's a bit of a pointless discussion as Stendel was the man in charge and he failed dismally. Christ Levein would have kept us up with all those players back plus Boyce who was a player he wanted!

Yeah and how did Levein get on with these players? 

[Hearts1975]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Kickback and social media would have wanted him out that's for sure.

You take my point though 🤞

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

We had a guy at our club that beat his team twice last season 🤔. 

 

And we've got a guy at the club now who beat them over an entire season. Christ, even Cathro hammered Rangers.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

Yeah and how did Levein get on with these players? 

 

Dunno, he barely got to play the team he signed. But that's a whole other debate.

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

And we've got a guy at the club now who beat them over an entire season. Christ, even Cathro hammered Rangers.

You think Neilson would be able to beat this Rangers team 😂. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Hearts1975 said:

You take my point though 🤞

 

Not really. Budge seems to lean towards giving managers time. Isn't that the main criticism of her?

[2205ian]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

We had a guy at our club that beat his team twice last season 🤔. 

Yes & we enjoyed it!!

 

Unfortunately it made no difference come the time the league was ended early.

 

Hamilton beat The Rangers at Ibrox & Killie at home in their last 2 games to save them.

 

Our guy did not beat St Midden in the game which lead to our demotion.

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Dunno, he barely got to play the team he signed. But that's a whole other debate.

Pish he risked Harings career to win a cup final next. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

You think Neilson would be able to beat this Rangers team 😂. 

 

Yes, that's what I was saying right enough. Did Stendel beat this Rangers team? 

Edited February 27, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, 2205ian said:

Yes & we enjoyed it!!

 

Unfortunately it made no difference come the time the league was ended early.

 

Hamilton beat The Rangers at Ibrox & Killie at home in their last 2 games to save them.

 

Our guy did not beat St Midden in the game which lead to our demotion.

And he beat them with a Levein team. 

[Bongo 1874]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yes, that's what I was saying. Did Stendel beat this Rangers team? 

Yes. 

 

They have 11 players that played the game against us that are regulary picked in the match day squad. 

 

He has added a few players. 

 

And in the League Cup game 13 players that are regulary involved with them 👍. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[2205ian]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

And he beat them with a Levein team. 

Bongo.......you are like a dog with a bone tonight!!

 

I'm offski.........SSN has been on in the background & I'm fed up listening to the same stories, in the same order for the 3rd time now 🐵

 

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, 2205ian said:

Bongo.......you are like a dog with a bone tonight!!

 

I'm offski.........SSN has been on in the background & I'm fed up listening to the same stories, in the same order for the 3rd time now 🐵

 

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

I speak the truth mate, I'm not a bad guy far from it. 

 

Do i feel supporters like you and myself deserve better yes i do. 

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And we've got a guy at the club now who beat them over an entire season. Christ, even Cathro hammered Rangers.

That isn’t the point though. 

We persevered for years with a dead end (far too long) and because AB got burned because of it, she then did the polar opposite, and knee jerked far too quickly where if she had did the same again, I have no doubt the circumstances would have been completely different 

 

However it’s all conjecture, the reality is that none of us will ever know, but to take our minds of it, we can go back to knowing that we are in a safe pair of hands and also know as long as AB is in charge, we will never take risks again 

 

That works financially for me,  but it doesn’t on the football side, and certainly not when I can see clearly that we have so much more potential to realise, have a stadium that roars, passionate fans - everything is there for us 

 

But we are safe under AB and will take no football risks as long as she is here - that’s all that matters 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

 

5 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Pish he risked Harings career to win a cup final next. 

 

 

Haring had a large say in that. Nearly worked too. Levein more than most players knows what it means to be long-term injured and how you need to try to win silverware while you can. 

[Hearts1975]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Not really. Budge seems to lean towards giving managers time. Isn't that the main criticism of her?

If you said she gives the wrong managers time, you would be correct 

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

 

Haring had a large say in that. Nearly worked too. Levein more than most players knows what it means to be long-term injured and how you need to try to win silverware while you can. 

So collectively rather than bring in  someone that can compete for his position, we risked a players career because we didn't have someone good enough to replace him, sad state of affairs and sums up Levein and recruitment. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

We are very lucky that there isn’t another team capable of getting a winning run together.

How much longer do we have to watch this disorganised rubbish. There is no distinguishable pattern or purpose to our play. Every week looks like the first pre season game of a bunch of players who only met each other last week.

 

Agreed. And the bigger problem is, down to our "recruitment", the majority of these "players" are pretty much pish.

Coaching obviously comes into it but I'm utterly bemused at the volume of complete shite we've had "put pen to paper" for us over the past few years.

It's nowt less than criminal. (in a fitbaw sense, obviously) And going by the evidence of most of this "campaign" it's not beyond the realms of possibility we could screw this up because we look no better than a lot of the dross in this league.

Feckin head-shaking stuff, so it is.

 

 

[Cory McNamara]

41 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

They have 11 players that played the game against us that are regulary picked in the match day squad. 

He has added a few players. 

 

You are right, they lost only one great player - some Holliway or Halliday, don't remember the surname, maybe you heard something about him. Basically, the same team.

 

Dany and crew stopped lunatics in Scottish Cup, one month earlier - their run in the league. This was the final maroon nail in the blue coffin. Great memories all around. 

 

 

 

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

Agreed. And the bigger problem is, down to our "recruitment", the majority of these "players" are pretty much pish.

Coaching obviously comes into it but I'm utterly bemused at the volume of complete shite we've had "put pen to paper" for us over the past few years.

It's nowt less than criminal. (in a fitbaw sense, obviously) And going by the evidence of most of this "campaign" it's not beyond the realms of possibility we could screw this up because we look no better than a lot of the dross in this league.

Feckin head-shaking stuff, so it is.

 

 

I agree, Jim.  Head-shaking indeed, year after year.

[Paolo]

6 hours ago, 2205ian said:

Rubbish.

 

Source - DAFC Website. Craig Wighton only on "loan" until the end of the season.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, still you will live in hope that Jason scores next Saturday!

That does not mean he can’t play against us.  He can, unless it is part of the loan agreement. 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, Gambo said:

40% + want him gone, 50% of the 60% - who want to give him the start of next season have major concerns.

 

Does the amount of "car crashes" this season, a season in the Chsmpionship, not tell it's own story.

 

We all support the team, you are just really slow in catching up with the concerns.

 

Nah, I just don't want our managers saxked all the time and greet lke a baby when we draw a few games. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

As we did to get ourselves level and again in the last ten. Rest was the usual. Hard work some nice work followed by a god awful pass cross or shot

 

Yip. 

 

When in the final third- cross it or hit a shot. No need to for the extra passes. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

You do make a good point though. Judging things far too quickly, and when you don’t assess the circumstances correctly, means that you can make the wrong decision. 

 

I am not arguing that. I am saying that if AB had the foresight to look past her own nose, and at the time, and actually persevere, she would have created something far better than the alternative direction she has committed to now. 

Agree. 

 

Possibly. No one knows for sure tho, they can't. 

 

[Mabawsa]

Looking over the comments, we are ok as we have a safe pair of hands. It’s a tough league, everyone raises their game, the surfaces/referees are shit, no fans etc etc....sounds just like RN.

Sorry that does not wash with me. His tactics/motivation clearly don’t work, our players clearly can’t raise their game, everyone else against us seems to manage with the referees and no fans. So what are they managing to do that we can’t?

 

I remember a comment from Pat Nevin after the 5-1 game. Sometimes a team is just better than the other team, how many of the Hibs players would get a game for Hearts?  On paper our team should be streets ahead, hardly any other player in this league would get a game for us, but they are constantly out playing us, why?

 

So far Ryan Stevenson is the only one on TV who called it as it is. Not good enough and rubbish.

 

This league is far from over, and unless RN drastically changes his outlook the promotion may not happen.

 

I am one who was not impressed with Robbie’s appointment, and knew this style of football would return, but it is worse than before. Whilst I appreciate Stendal may have failed in the eyes of many, least his ethos and style of play was enjoyable to watch. We will never know if he would have done any better this season, but I doubt he could have done any worse. 
 

This team needs something to get it going, and I’m not convinced this management team is the answer.

[Nookie Bear]

Folk arguing til about 2am on here. 
 

This club isn’t worth that kind of stress, lads. 

[jambopilms]

I think folk need to remember that we beat rangers twice whilst they were going through an awful run and losing points to most teams. They were the only team in the league at the time with less fight than us. Remember we beat Celtic 4-0. It happens but it's not a marker for anything. 

The last 4/5 managers have pulled a good result out of the bag, or the players have decided to show up and earn their wages once or twice a season.

Amazing to say but DS beat rangers then ignore the awful results that took us to the bottom.

[jambopilms]

It's like watching 10 Sean Clare's, just waiting for them to do something to prove why they are there.

[Jamhammer]

10 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

What do you think? 

LSD and football not a good idea 

[Maroon Sailor]

No width in the Hearts play last night.

 

Getting decent wingers is proving to be an achilles heel.

 

There was nothing better than seeing the likes of Prentice, Colquhoun and McCann in full flow.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Team have us sussed, their forwards and mids hassle and harry our defense, they panic and pass back and forth to a player who is already covered. The play is too slow and pedestrian with no forward movement and no desire to get in the box. This allows their defense to cover all movement as we only every have one in the box, this was shown when Boyce was nowhere near poking the cross the box pass from Gnanduilet.

We need a complete change. is that personell, manager, back room team or tactics , then again maybe all four.

We SHOULD win the league, but the gap is decreasing every week and the tighter it get the more they will panic. They seem to be playing like ,Oh it's ok we have this lead, but when it come to the nitty gritty they will bottle it as they did last season.

[andythejambo]

3 hours ago, Paolo said:

That does not mean he can’t play against us.  He can, unless it is part of the loan agreement. 

Think the SPFL specifically prohibits a player playing against their parent club.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

2 hours ago, Mabawsa said:

Looking over the comments, we are ok as we have a safe pair of hands. It’s a tough league, everyone raises their game, the surfaces/referees are shit, no fans etc etc....sounds just like RN.

Sorry that does not wash with me. His tactics/motivation clearly don’t work, our players clearly can’t raise their game, everyone else against us seems to manage with the referees and no fans. So what are they managing to do that we can’t?

 

I remember a comment from Pat Nevin after the 5-1 game. Sometimes a team is just better than the other team, how many of the Hibs players would get a game for Hearts?  On paper our team should be streets ahead, hardly any other player in this league would get a game for us, but they are constantly out playing us, why?

 

So far Ryan Stevenson is the only one on TV who called it as it is. Not good enough and rubbish.

 

This league is far from over, and unless RN drastically changes his outlook the promotion may not happen.

 

I am one who was not impressed with Robbie’s appointment, and knew this style of football would return, but it is worse than before. Whilst I appreciate Stendal may have failed in the eyes of many, least his ethos and style of play was enjoyable to watch. We will never know if he would have done any better this season, but I doubt he could have done any worse. 
 

This team needs something to get it going, and I’m not convinced this management team is the answer.

Get the squad doon tae Gullane and run em

[Silverwolf]

2 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

No width in the Hearts play last night.

 

Getting decent wingers is proving to be an achilles heel.

 

There was nothing better than seeing the likes of Prentice, Colquhoun and McCann in full flow.

I am not sure this two wide player tactics are working. The idea is to stretch the parked bus and create gaps for the attacking midfield to exploit. Trouble is the opposing teams seem to be able to shut down the wingers and there is no plan B as we are now short in the middle of the park.

 

unlike some, I have not written off Kastineer or GMS. In fact Kastineer saves us last night, blocking a shot which was a certain goal otherwise. I just do not think they know what to do when plan A is being shut down. Indeed, at one point RN moved Kastineer into the strikers position. He clearly did not understand what is being asked of him.

 

Perhaps, instead of being overly complex and overthinking the issue, we just need to go 4 4 2 and add some bite.

[portobellojambo1]

2 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Team have us sussed, their forwards and mids hassle and harry our defense, they panic and pass back and forth to a player who is already covered. The play is too slow and pedestrian with no forward movement and no desire to get in the box. This allows their defense to cover all movement as we only every have one in the box, this was shown when Boyce was nowhere near poking the cross the box pass from Gnanduilet.

We need a complete change. is that personell, manager, back room team or tactics , then again maybe all four.

We SHOULD win the league, but the gap is decreasing every week and the tighter it get the more they will panic. They seem to be playing like ,Oh it's ok we have this lead, but when it come to the nitty gritty they will bottle it as they did last season.

I think maybe you picked the wrong situation to use to evidence your thoughts. I think at the point the ball went into the box we had 5 or 6 players in the box. The two who ended up at the back post missed converting it by not a lot of distance, but I suspect, like me, they didn't expect to see the ball arrive where it did. To me it wasn't a pass intended for anyone else, it was a shit awful attempt on goal which caught everyone by surprise. You picked an example where we did have plenty of players in the box, there were many more instances when Boyce was in the box on his own. And Naismith is picking up a lot of comments from fans because he isn't doing the business in the midle of the park. Strange that really, that someone who scored goals regularly for every club he has played for, and never operated in the middle of the park for them, now looks poorer when not being played in his best area and being asked to function in a position he's never played previously.

[Coco]

Missed the build up and interviews last night ... Is there a reason why Jamie Walker isn't starting?

[Paolo]

3 hours ago, andythejambo said:

Think the SPFL specifically prohibits a player playing against their parent club.

Fair enough.  Thanks.  

[Malinga the Swinga]

7 minutes ago, Coco said:

Missed the build up and interviews last night ... Is there a reason why Jamie Walker isn't starting?

Think it's because after 5 minutes, he looks exhausted, can't run at any pace, can't cross the ball and can't tackle. 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Think it's because after 5 minutes, he looks exhausted, can't run at any pace, can't cross the ball and can't tackle. 

So why did Naismith start?

[sac]

6 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Nah, I just don't want our managers saxked all the time and greet lke a baby when we draw a few games. 

 

 

You must enjoy mediocrity big time

[Ex member of the SaS]

2 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said:

I think maybe you picked the wrong situation to use to evidence your thoughts. I think at the point the ball went into the box we had 5 or 6 players in the box. The two who ended up at the back post missed converting it by not a lot of distance, but I suspect, like me, they didn't expect to see the ball arrive where it did. To me it wasn't a pass intended for anyone else, it was a shit awful attempt on goal which caught everyone by surprise. You picked an example where we did have plenty of players in the box, there were many more instances when Boyce was in the box on his own. And Naismith is picking up a lot of comments from fans because he isn't doing the business in the midle of the park. Strange that really, that someone who scored goals regularly for every club he has played for, and never operated in the middle of the park for them, now looks poorer when not being played in his best area and being asked to function in a position he's never played previously.

I maybe worded that a bit wrongly as I had typed the Boyce instance and then went back and added the previous bit so it does look a little contradictory. My main point though is the other teams know that by pressuring our defense they don't have an out ball due to holding mids and strikers in the center circle trying to make things happen that the mids are meant to do.

We need move forward movement and two up front that basically stay there so the opposition can't push so many forward as they have to cover their backs. At least one attacking mid and a defense that plays the ball forward more than side to side.

[Coco]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Think it's because after 5 minutes, he looks exhausted, can't run at any pace, can't cross the ball and can't tackle. 

Team only picked up after he came on - again

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Time to settle back and watch the rest of this pish League cut each other 

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

So why did Naismith start?

He's vocal and that's about it just now. 

[portobellojambo1]

31 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

I maybe worded that a bit wrongly as I had typed the Boyce instance and then went back and added the previous bit so it does look a little contradictory. My main point though is the other teams know that by pressuring our defense they don't have an out ball due to holding mids and strikers in the center circle trying to make things happen that the mids are meant to do.

We need move forward movement and two up front that basically stay there so the opposition can't push so many forward as they have to cover their backs. At least one attacking mid and a defense that plays the ball forward more than side to side.

 

No problem, I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, but I just thought you had used a wrong example of where we are failing. I genuinely do not believe there is any team in this league that we have to stand off, and not attack. But in attacking it has to have a purpose. Playing the ball across the park has its moment, but the purpose of that moment should be to drag the defensive unit around. And by keeping two good, wide players in position that in itself reduces the amount of movement the defence can make as those two players, even if not involved in the game 100% of the time, attract defenders towards them. But it does also need effective players up front, players who once they have the ball if they are unable to finish themselves know exactly where everyone else is, and which areas they can release the ball into. There is nothing to be gained by playing the ball across the park left to right, for example, with the only option then being to play it back across the park from right to left again, any movement sideways should be with the intention of deciding who the recipient further forward is going to be. If the defenders don't know who the intended recipient is they then have to cover all bases, which in itself creates further space for our players to both play in and move into. And play players in their correct positions, it is difficult to be critical of players who are playing out of position. In fact even with Boyce he gets some criticism because he doesn't do enough, at the moment he is effectively having to patrol and work the forward third of the park on his own, which is both unfair and doesn't work for us.