Robbie poll February 2021 (not the latest poll)

[Cruyff]

Still willing to give him the summer. I think he needs to strengthen the team significantly. 

[frankblack]

24 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

You just need to look at September in your footnotes mate. 

 

No need to lecture me on music taste.  I see the shockers you post in the music thread in the shed.

[Beni]

26 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Perhaps you should provide the figures?

The same principle most definitely doesn't apply as having a squad full of players earning far beyond the club's income.

 

The shortfall in revenue was 400k.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50826082.amp

 

Budge lent 700k

 

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2020/11/revenue-down-2-5m-but-donations-see-hearts-post-profit/amp/

 

Mr Micawber: "Misery"

 

[Greedy Jambo]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

No need to lecture me on music taste.  I see the shockers you post in the music thread in the shed.

 

Mate, i can play 3 chords on the guitar. Gtf. 

[Agentjambo]

22 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Still willing to give him the summer. I think he needs to strengthen the team significantly. 

Doesn’t matter who he signs if he doesn't have the ability to coach them. 

[chrystaf]

30 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Still willing to give him the summer. I think he needs to strengthen the team significantly. 

But that's been the call for the last several seasons.   Mass change to the team year after year is not the answer to a long term strategy.   And that's were Budge is failing.

[Greedy Jambo]

13 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Doesn’t matter who he signs if he doesn't have the ability to coach them. 

 

Bang on. 

I've not seen any improvement all season, same old shite served up for premium money. 

If he was the manager of any other champtionship side with limited funds, they'd be toiling at the bottom. 

[Cruyff]

52 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Doesn’t matter who he signs if he doesn't have the ability to coach them. 

I don't dispute it and if that's the case he will get found out early doors. What can you do. 

 

41 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

But that's been the call for the last several seasons.   Mass change to the team year after year is not the answer to a long term strategy.   And that's were Budge is failing.

It doesn't matter who the manager is. He's still going to need better players next season. 

[1971fozzy]

He gets the summer transfer market and next season.

make no mistake if it’s the turgid eye bleeding football (and bad results) then there comes a time when some will just of had enough. The much lauded academy? seems to be some sort of bad dream although to be fair the pandemic hasn’t exactly helped.  This division is shockingly poor.

After Cathro, Austin, Levein and Stendell we have had a rotten time of it. Yet still we pump in over £100,000 a MONTH. Still we have over 11,000 Season Ticket holders in the second division and knowing we were unlikely to see the team live. Incredible supporters.

there will come a point when sales will go down if this doesn’t turn out right. What most of us want is a manager that can get a tune out of a squad. He seems to be a master of making players worse for some reason or another. 
clearly we can’t sack a manager who will get us promoted. Thats rightly never happening. I’m no fan of his believe me.

sack him and the new manager comes in and has a mare ? 
Plus Ann Budge has not once got a managerial appointment right (since Robbie in the first year of her reign). She isn’t capable of making the right calls either in appointing or timing of dismissing. A huge year ahead. Of course I will renew next season , but my interest in watching the type of football we play at the moment is waning. I turned off a free stream on Saturday at half time because I was bored and frustrated . I’d be in the pub at half time if I’d turned up to watch that.

 

[frankblack]

3 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

The shortfall in revenue was 400k.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50826082.amp

 

Budge lent 700k

 

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2020/11/revenue-down-2-5m-but-donations-see-hearts-post-profit/amp/

 

Mr Micawber: "Misery"

 

 

So the club lost money due to Covid, demotion, etc but balanced it with donations? 

 

 Most businesses have lost much more due to having their income severely cut by closures.  I would say that is actually demonstrating resilience.  Promotion will help too.

 

Please show how we aren't living within our means?

[Beni]

5 hours ago, frankblack said:

So the club lost money due to Covid, demotion, etc but balanced it with donations?

 

Nothing to do with Covid.

I'm talking about 2019 before anyone had heard of it.

 

The first link is from 2019 and the second link is from last year, but was the first that came up referencing Budge's 2019 loan. The relevent section reads 

 

After loaning the club £700,000 last year, Mrs Budge, via her company Bidco (1874) Limited, has loaned a further £1.2m to aid with running costs, taking the amount she is owed to over £2m

 

 

5 hours ago, frankblack said:

Please show how we aren't living within our means

 You're welcome. 

[Nookie Bear]

6 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

He gets the summer transfer market and next season.

make no mistake if it’s the turgid eye bleeding football (and bad results) then there comes a time when some will just of had enough. The much lauded academy? seems to be some sort of bad dream although to be fair the pandemic hasn’t exactly helped.  This division is shockingly poor.

After Cathro, Austin, Levein and Stendell we have had a rotten time of it. Yet still we pump in over £100,000 a MONTH. Still we have over 11,000 Season Ticket holders in the second division and knowing we were unlikely to see the team live. Incredible supporters.

there will come a point when sales will go down if this doesn’t turn out right. What most of us want is a manager that can get a tune out of a squad. He seems to be a master of making players worse for some reason or another. 
clearly we can’t sack a manager who will get us promoted. Thats rightly never happening. I’m no fan of his believe me.

sack him and the new manager comes in and has a mare ? 
Plus Ann Budge has not once got a managerial appointment right (since Robbie in the first year of her reign). She isn’t capable of making the right calls either in appointing or timing of dismissing. A huge year ahead. Of course I will renew next season , but my interest in watching the type of football we play at the moment is waning. I turned off a free stream on Saturday at half time because I was bored and frustrated . I’d be in the pub at half time if I’d turned up to watch that.

 

We are being taken for mugs and Budge may get a surprise when the fans are “welcomed” back to Tynie. 

[frankblack]

37 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Nothing to do with Covid.

I'm talking about 2019 before anyone had heard of it.

 

The first link is from 2019 and the second link is from last year, but was the first that came up referencing Budge's 2019 loan. The relevent section reads 

 

After loaning the club £700,000 last year, Mrs Budge, via her company Bidco (1874) Limited, has loaned a further £1.2m to aid with running costs, taking the amount she is owed to over £2m

 

 

 You're welcome. 

 

So is that historical to do with costs for the new stand, which is going to turn around and will increase income (once fans return)?  A one-off infrastructure cost such as that was essential, and while it ran over budget, it is an income-generating asset both for match days and corporate events.

 

You still haven't proven how the club isn't being run within its means once you exclude that exceptional item of the new stand.

Edited March 22, 2021 by frankblack

[Beni]

39 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

So is that historical to do with costs for the new stand, which is going to turn around and will increase income (once fans return)?  A one-off infrastructure cost such as that was essential, and while it ran over budget, it is an income-generating asset both for match days and corporate events.

 

You still haven't proven how the club isn't being run within its means once you exclude that exceptional item of the new stand.

 

First you tried to blame Covid, now the new (unfinished) stand.

Wrong again.

The club had to borrow money to fund normal expenditure, eg a 35 man playing squad.

If your day to day spending is more than your earnings you are living beyond your means.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by fancy a brew
Sp

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, fancy a brew said:

 

First you tried to blame Covid, now the new (unfinished) stand.

Wrong again.

The club had to borrow money to fund normal expenditure, eg a 35 man playing squad.

If your day to day spending is more than your earnings you are living beyond you means.

 

Does it say that they took the loan for a 35 man playing squad and not the items I mentioned?  Was the stand actually paid off then?

 

You are straw clutching at the extreme and desperate to put the boot into the club.  I'm too busy to bother reading your links or continuing to humour you so bash on.

[Beni]

17 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Does it say that they took the loan for a 35 man playing squad and not the items I mentioned?  Was the stand actually paid off then?

 

Budge admitted herself that she allowed the squad to get too big, which is why I used it as an example (the 'eg' was your clue there)

The items you mentioned aren't there because they're nothing to do with it.

 

18 minutes ago, frankblack said:

You are straw clutching at the extreme

 

If by straw clutching you mean backing up the points I've made with facts, then I agree.

 

19 minutes ago, frankblack said:

and desperate to put the boot into the club. 

 

Nope, just showing that your claim that we had to live within our means was wrong. l mentioned that the sums involved were modest.

 

 

21 minutes ago, frankblack said:

I'm too busy to bother reading your links or continuing to humour you so bash on.

 

So you ask for evidence, but when it's presented refuse to read anything that proves you wrong. Probably better to busy yourself with something else, less cognitive dissonance. 😉

[Ex member of the SaS]

15 hours ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

That’s not the point. If you think we’re crap then winning the league quicker won’t make us good. We have so called fans that believe we should just show up and win. Would they feel the same if Hearts just let the  @$$ cheeks win because of who they are, fan base, squad and budget? 
 Hearts will never win every game in a season. Ever.

The goal this year was promotion. That’s pretty much completed. 

Hearts will not play the same style next season as they won’t have the same players. All the talk of Robbie must go but not one “Hearts fan” naming the manager who will guarantee us success. 
This place is infested right now.

How many players will be replaced? How many players will be brought in? Most on here agree a complete rebuild is required but with so many on contracts that go beyond the end of the summer, just who will go and where is the money coming from to buy better?

I would like someone who keeps telling us we will have different players to name the ones likely to be leaving.  Three or four is my estimation.

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

How many players will be replaced? How many players will be brought in? Most on here agree a complete rebuild is required but with so many on contracts that go beyond the end of the summer, just who will go and where is the money coming from to buy better?

I would like someone who keeps telling us we will have different players to name the ones likely to be leaving.  Three or four is my estimation.

Quite a lot out of contract. Zlamal, White, Berra, Irving, Wighton (obv), Frear. There are a couple more but can't remember who.

[frankblack]

22 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Budge admitted herself that she allowed the squad to get too big, which is why I used it as an example (the 'eg' was your clue there)

The items you mentioned aren't there because they're nothing to do with it.

 

But you haven't answered my point on the impact of costs for the New Stand.  I believe we jettisoned a number of players in the summer, so not sure what our current squad size is.

 

22 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

If by straw clutching you mean backing up the points I've made with facts, then I agree.

 

 

Nope, just showing that your claim that we had to live within our means was wrong. l mentioned that the sums involved were modest.

 

 

 

So you ask for evidence, but when it's presented refuse to read anything that proves you wrong. Probably better to busy yourself with something else, less cognitive dissonance. 😉

 

You still haven't made your argument about us not living within our means.  We have the means to cover those losses which we didn't from Romanov to Robinson, and were paying wages we could not sustain.

 

In any case, I thought this was a thread about Neilson?  Correct me if I'm wrong but he wasn't at the club in 2019.

[Beni]

9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

But you haven't answered my point on the impact of costs for the New Stand.  I believe we jettisoned a number of players in the summer, so not sure what our current squad size is.

 

 

You still haven't made your argument about us not living within our means.  We have the means to cover those losses which we didn't from Romanov to Robinson, and were paying wages we could not sustain.

 

In any case, I thought this was a thread about Neilson?  Correct me if I'm wrong but he wasn't at the club in 2019.

 

Robinson built 3 stands so according to your logic...

[frankblack]

32 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Robinson built 3 stands so according to your logic...

 

Remind me how well our finances were when he sold to Romanov?

[Beni]

14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Remind me how well our finances were when he sold to Romanov?

 

I'm not defending Robinson, just highlighting the flaws in your argument.

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

How many players will be replaced? How many players will be brought in? Most on here agree a complete rebuild is required but with so many on contracts that go beyond the end of the summer, just who will go and where is the money coming from to buy better?

I would like someone who keeps telling us we will have different players to name the ones likely to be leaving.  Three or four is my estimation.

There will be no rebuild. There are players out of contract, most of whom won’t be renewed. Then we’ll bring in what we need to fill gaps. The core of the squad will be pretty much as it is now. Source - Robbie Neilson a week ago.

[Bad Religion]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

There will be no rebuild. There are players out of contract, most of whom won’t be renewed. Then we’ll bring in what we need to fill gaps. The core of the squad will be pretty much as it is now. Source - Robbie Neilson a week ago.

I agree there won’t be as many changes as people think. 
 

A competent manger would get a lot more out of rye current squad.  

[feej]

Said same earlier in the thread. Some people expecting loads of new players, that won't happen, a centre back, a winger and maybe a midfielder or 2 if Irving leaves. This is my worry that next season will be same as we're experiencing now, so God help us!!!

[JimmyCant]

22 minutes ago, feej said:

Said same earlier in the thread. Some people expecting loads of new players, that won't happen, a centre back, a winger and maybe a midfielder or 2 if Irving leaves. This is my worry that next season will be same as we're experiencing now, so God help us!!!

I can’t see any prospect of Robbie Neilson turning us into an attacking team that other teams fear. Most of the premier league teams will be licking their lips at the prospect of playing such a slow ponderous deliberately cautious and timid Hearts team. I’m actually getting angry at the soft touch irrelevance we've been turned into.

[feej]

Agreed, in my opinion he should have been building a team this season that had a way of playing that could be supplemented with a quality player here and there that would have taken us to the next level but that ain't happened. 

[Bad Religion]

1 minute ago, feej said:

Agreed, in my opinion he should have been building a team this season that had a way of playing that could be supplemented with a quality player here and there that would have taken us to the next level but that ain't happened. 

 

This is exactly what should have happened but hasn't. We are just as bad as before but playing weaker opposition.

[Ex member of the SaS]

12 minutes ago, feej said:

Agreed, in my opinion he should have been building a team this season that had a way of playing that could be supplemented with a quality player here and there that would have taken us to the next level but that ain't happened. 

I said the same on other threads, this was the season to build a team for next season, no good getting new players at the start of each season we need the players to gell. I can see it could be hard to get players to come to a Championship team BUT surely when they understand how we got here and that we won't be here long that should cancel out any doubts players may have.

[feej]

If we had a style than you buy players that fit/supplement that way of playing but we do the opposite, buy someone then try and shoehorn then in eg Halliday, what does he do, what's his role?  We're not learning from our past mistakes

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I'm not defending Robinson, just highlighting the flaws in your argument.

 

No, you are just going further off topic with a nonsense argument.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

3 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

How many players will be replaced? How many players will be brought in? Most on here agree a complete rebuild is required but with so many on contracts that go beyond the end of the summer, just who will go and where is the money coming from to buy better?

I would like someone who keeps telling us we will have different players to name the ones likely to be leaving.  Three or four is my estimation.

Three or four is over a quarter of a starting 11. That’s huge. That means three or four now are not starting next season. That’s huge. No one right now knows who the three or four will be. We can all guess individually who won’t start. I think more than four. Not knowing Irving’s contract decision makes it tougher. For me, Popescu, Halliday, Naismith and Irving (Mackey-Steven)

Possibly even Gnanduillet. We’ll know more soon enough. I’m not worried about next season right now.
 

[frankblack]

50 minutes ago, feej said:

Agreed, in my opinion he should have been building a team this season that had a way of playing that could be supplemented with a quality player here and there that would have taken us to the next level but that ain't happened. 

 

Where do we get enough said quality players within our budget when our income streams are shut by Covid?

 

I will take the promotion first thanks.  Chance to supplement team in summer when quality players might be more interested in joining a premiership team.

[Diego10]

40 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

I said the same on other threads, this was the season to build a team for next season, no good getting new players at the start of each season we need the players to gell. I can see it could be hard to get players to come to a Championship team BUT surely when they understand how we got here and that we won't be here long that should cancel out any doubts players may have.

That last sentence is doing a lot of heavy assumption.

 

The funds available this season are clearly going to be far lower than next.  We've not gone out and brought in ten guys on three year contracts, and a number have been a punt.  The ones we have brought in to build round are fairly transparent.

 

If the recruitment is as scattergun next season I'll be extremely concerned

[Gambo]

15 hours ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

The fax machine was pulling out names like Rudi, European cup winner, European championship winner, international after international and the best goalie Scotland has seen in years. But that doesn’t fit with the agenda here. That was years and years ago we had a fax machine.

And years ago Robbie had us 3rd

[feej]

I would imagine to there would have been plenty players available, year after year we seem to get out recruited by teams who have a lesser budget than us. This year with Covid they would have been worse off than us but seem to work the transfer market better than us. It's not all about the amount of money  thats on offer.

[Spellczech]

Let's be honest with the budget we have any of the 10 managers in the Championship could have got us promoted. I'd even go as far as to say that some of the people on here could've got us promoted this season if they'd been handed the job! The only way to judge Neilson so far is on signings and style, and I cannot say I'm overwhelmed on either score so far...I'm content to give him the summer and see how things go next season, but at the moment Hearts don't excite me at all, and it is made worse by watching it on TV from a sofa...

Edited March 22, 2021 by Spellczech

[feej]

Agreed, let's hope he can attract players that will get us excited again cos you're right, there's not one player I look forward to watching, except for big Craig.

[May one-six]

46 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Let's be honest with the budget we have any of the 10 managers in the Championship could have got us promoted. I'd even go as far as to say that some of the people on here could've got us promoted this season if they'd been handed the job! The only way to judge Neilson so far is on signings and style, and I cannot say I'm overwhelmed on either score so far...I'm content to give him the summer and see how things go next season, but at the moment Hearts don't excite me at all, and it is made worse by watching it on TV from a sofa...

Mmmm....even McPake?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Let's be honest with the budget we have any of the 10 managers in the Championship could have got us promoted. I'd even go as far as to say that some of the people on here could've got us promoted this season if they'd been handed the job! The only way to judge Neilson so far is on signings and style, and I cannot say I'm overwhelmed on either score so far...I'm content to give him the summer and see how things go next season, but at the moment Hearts don't excite me at all, and it is made worse by watching it on TV from a sofa...

I’m not having a go at you but this is what’s lost us season after season - let’s just stick with him and see how he ****s up the summer and next season, before inevitably sacking him.

 

The signs are there for all to see, except Ann Budge 

[Spellczech]

6 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m not having a go at you but this is what’s lost us season after season - let’s just stick with him and see how he ****s up the summer and next season, before inevitably sacking him.

 

The signs are there for all to see, except Ann Budge 

Well I would've stuck with Stendel too

[mitch41]

23 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Remind me how things went the following two seasons with our finances and paying wages?

 

You do realise that we have to live within our means now?

Hearts need to employ a competent manager and don’t forget you can win trophies and play good football without breaking the bank. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

8 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Well I would've stuck with Stendel too

Me too. Sadly, Shan Budge didn’t like home truths about the shambles she’s in charge of

[Spellczech]

9 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Hearts need to employ a competent manager and don’t forget you can win trophies and play good football without breaking the bank. 

Indeed. All Hearts managers are ever tasked with is being 3rd or 4th with the 3rd or 4th biggest budget...Our managers are not exactly under the same pressure that Chelsea managers face!

[mitch41]

On 21/02/2021 at 15:43, GinRummy said:

As it says 

I’d like to thank GinRummy for starting this poll on the 21st February now a month later I wonder what the poll would look like if it was reset. Anyway I does look like Robbie will survive until the end of the season when I hope another poll will be posted with 2 questions. One asking should Robbie Neilson remain as manager and the other asking if he should be replaced immediately. As far as I’m concerned the sooner he goes the better because I just know he’s not up to the job.

[Greedy Jambo]

There's zero enjoyment in watching Hearts these days.

More of a punishment if anything. 

[frankblack]

25 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Hearts need to employ a competent manager and don’t forget you can win trophies and play good football without breaking the bank. 

 

No argument with the just of your argument.  We have a poor squad from first team to reserves and a lot of that pre-dates Robbie.  I don't think you can turn around what we had from the end of last season in one or two transfer windows especially given the pandemic.

 

However, lets get the league won and start to plan for next season.  I can't see Robbie going if he gets promotion, but the team does need to improve.

 

We were crap last season when teams sat behind the ball and don't seem to have got much better at it where its far worse in the Championship.

[GinRummy]

21 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I’d like to thank GinRummy for starting this poll on the 21st February now a month later I wonder what the poll would look like if it was reset. Anyway I does look like Robbie will survive until the end of the season when I hope another poll will be posted with 2 questions. One asking should Robbie Neilson remain as manager and the other asking if he should be replaced immediately. As far as I’m concerned the sooner he goes the better because I just know he’s not up to the job.

You’re welcome Mitch. These things do tend to get outdated and irrelevant fairly quickly. FWIW my opinion hasn’t changed. He’s achieved his target and gets to start next season. I just hope he gets the squad assembled in the summer, ready and motivated for next season. 

[mitch41]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

You’re welcome Mitch. These things do tend to get outdated and irrelevant fairly quickly. FWIW my opinion hasn’t changed. He’s achieved his target and gets to start next season. I just hope he gets the squad assembled in the summer, ready and motivated for next season. 

Cheers for that.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Let's be honest with the budget we have any of the 10 managers in the Championship could have got us promoted. I'd even go as far as to say that some of the people on here could've got us promoted this season if they'd been handed the job! The only way to judge Neilson so far is on signings and style, and I cannot say I'm overwhelmed on either score so far...I'm content to give him the summer and see how things go next season, but at the moment Hearts don't excite me at all, and it is made worse by watching it on TV from a sofa...

 

 

In the recent past Ask Utd, Hibs, rangers, dundee and to a lesser extent Partick and Falkirk how having a big Budget and getting promoted first time worked out.