SFA to conduct 'fit and proper' test on Livingston boss

[GMEdinburgh]

34 minutes ago, Diego10 said:

Are people generally suggesting, in among the Celtic conspiracy nonsense about the timing, that there should be no licensing checks for managers?  

 

He passed the check, but if you were applying for any position in the country with management responsibilities you'd expect to be checked.  It's done and he's passed, doesn't mean he should just have been accepted without it

Should this not have been done or checked when he was given the position? 

[TexasAndy]

So who does the fit and proper testing on the SFA??

[Hagar the Horrible]

Anyhoo the guy has passed. He wont win a game now

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Anyhoo the guy has passed. He wont win a game now

 

It's like the curse of the Manager of the Month Award that just got us with that Raith result 🤣

[JudyJudyJudy]

Good to see him get the all clear ! Shameful that it even went to the SFA considering the crooks there 😞

[Diego10]

3 hours ago, GMEdinburgh said:

Should this not have been done or checked when he was given the position? 

It should be but given he was only appointed just before Christmas and it was originally scheduled earlier it's not exactly a massive wait really

[colinmaroon]

 

The SFA set the standard with King at Rangers, not forgetting the basic fact that a corrupt organisation are going to be more "understanding."

 

I'm not saying he shouldn't have been passed fit, just the fact that the process is deeply flawed because those sitting in judgement are as bent as a 15 bob note.

[WoolfordsHearts]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Good to see him get the all clear ! Shameful that it even went to the SFA considering the crooks there 😞

I'd hardly call it shameful.

He was nailed for some pretty serious stuff ffs.

 

As much as the sfa are crooked,none of them have been sentenced to 6 and a half years in the clink.🙄

 

*That I know of..

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

16 minutes ago, WoolfordsHearts said:

I'd hardly call it shameful.

He was nailed for some pretty serious stuff ffs.

 

As much as the sfa are crooked,none of them have been sentenced to 6 and a half years in the clink.🙄

 

*That I know of..

it was the way it was done. Make a song and dance about it. And then a few days later go ‘nah, it’s fine.’ Football in this country is run like a bowling club

[Seymour M Hersh]

The correct outcome. He should be held up as an inspiration for those seeking to turn their lives around. 

[Tommy Brown]

1 hour ago, WoolfordsHearts said:

I'd hardly call it shameful.

He was nailed for some pretty serious stuff ffs.

 

As much as the sfa are crooked,none of them have been sentenced to 6 and a half years in the clink.🙄

 

*That I know of..

 

Doncaster's face alone deserves 6 and a half years in jail, surely.

[Nelly Terraces]

25 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

The correct outcome. He should be held up as an inspiration for those seeking to turn their lives around. 

Absolutely agree with both points there.

 

Chuffed for the guy but he should never have been put through this pointless & petty charade.

[graygo]

36 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

The correct outcome. He should be held up as an inspiration for those seeking to turn their lives around. 

 

I'd rather hold up someone who has never been involved in organised crime as inspiration.

(I get what you're saying though)

[Peakybunnet]

We all make mistakes, in my case multiple. But you learn hopefully after the first time.

 

I don't know him and have never met him bit he used to rent a house to my sister who said he was great for her and her family.

 

Plus my best  friend is safety officer at Livingston and speaks highly of the work he does all around the club.  

[WoolfordsHearts]

32 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Doncaster's face alone deserves 6 and a half years in jail, surely.

Oh deffo mate.

 

And the inspirational martindale should get a knighthood 🙄

[Thomaso]

Jeez that feckin whiny weegie voice is anything but fit and proper! 🙉

[Fozzyonthefence]

9 hours ago, Diego10 said:

Are people generally suggesting, in among the Celtic conspiracy nonsense about the timing, that there should be no licensing checks for managers?  

 

He passed the check, but if you were applying for any position in the country with management responsibilities you'd expect to be checked.  It's done and he's passed, doesn't mean he should just have been accepted without it

I don’t think it’s anything to do with management responsibilities - I’m not a manager but wouldn’t have got my job with his background - that’s down to individual employers to make that decision. 
 

Should there be no licensing checks for players?  I’m struggling to see why football managers should be treated differently from football players.  If it is acceptable for players convicted of rape or manslaughter through drunk driving to be rehabilitated and allowed to resume their playing career then why not managers too?  Surely the same for both whichever side of the argument you take.

 

 It’s a difficult one, he’s done his time, etc and I’m glad he’s getting a chance to get on with his life but I think it’s a different situation with someone running a club and a dangerous precedent has been set with Dave King - I mean how can anyone now be deemed not to be fit and proper?

[quockerwodgerjambo]

Fairness after all, just shows you it can be done.

Was a shite drug dealer anyways.

[mayfield]

On 20/01/2021 at 21:33, Locky said:

Declan Gallagher. While at Dundee in 2013, he turned up to an anniversary party at a hotel with a baseball bat and beat someone pretty badly. Went to jail in 2015 while at Livingston and was released on appeal, but then lost that appeal and went back to jail. Since coming out for real, he's went back to Livi, signed for Motherwell, and now become a Scotland international. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for Martindale surely.

Makes my blood boil this.

affects someone else’s life permanently with violence, then just carries on his merry way with high-paying football when released.

Hope he gets what he deserves one day 

[quockerwodgerjambo]

7 minutes ago, mayfield said:

Makes my blood boil this.

affects someone else’s life permanently with violence, then just carries on his merry way with high-paying football when released.

Hope he gets what he deserves one day 

Mate no need for that, you hope someone busts him one day. Come on , your words now mean nothing.Scotland just so happens to be a violent country, it's very roots are stained in it.

It is a tough world out and about when there are people who are unstable starting it in the first place. I am not read up on the story , i do know that Declan Gallagher has went through his own hell, no one turns up out of the blue with a baseball bat unless someone is taking the *****. It is an every day occurrence al over Scotland, even in Lockdown.

[Riccarton3]

So that's Martindale freed of the baggage of organised crime for his employment. No such air freshener for the SFA

Edited January 27, 2021 by Riccarton3

[Hagar the Horrible]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

So that's Martindale freed of the baggage of organised crime for his employment. No such air freshener for the SFA

This is a bit like King Herod being a reference for the nanny.

 

If he can help reduce crime. And repeat offenders might try not end up back in the jail then i am ok with it. But equally you could argue you cant commit crime after a 20 stretch.

 

Best of luck to him as he has at least publicity tried and being open. His crime is no worse that what was committed to us

[Locky]

20 hours ago, Diego10 said:

Are people generally suggesting, in among the Celtic conspiracy nonsense about the timing, that there should be no licensing checks for managers?  

 

He passed the check, but if you were applying for any position in the country with management responsibilities you'd expect to be checked.  It's done and he's passed, doesn't mean he should just have been accepted without it

I don't think anyone is of that belief at all. I'm all for such a system if it stops the Claude Anelka's of the world rocking up at clubs and ruining them. But that system has to be fair and consistent. The SFA had no concerns about letting convicted violent criminal Declan Gallagher play for them as I mentioned, or indeed as others have pointed out, they had no issues with the racist and sexist bigot Malky Mackay overseeing a key role in their set up.

 

The minute David Martindale was appointed caretaker manager, the SFA should've been right on top of them. Put that into a real life work situation. Imagine landing your dream job on a probationary basis, passing that probation and being given it full time, only to be told that no one has ever received your disclosure so there's a chance you're back out on your arse.

 

Vetting is done, and done for a reason in almost all walks of employment. Rightly so. But this situation just had the potential to be another shadow cast on our game due to incompetence. Thankfully, danger averted an

[GinRummy]

20 hours ago, Diego10 said:

Are people generally suggesting, in among the Celtic conspiracy nonsense about the timing, that there should be no licensing checks for managers?  

 

He passed the check, but if you were applying for any position in the country with management responsibilities you'd expect to be checked.  It's done and he's passed, doesn't mean he should just have been accepted without it

How can any hearts fan use the phrase 'Celtic conspiracy nonsense'? You hardly need a tinfoil hat and ten year supply of canned goods to appreciate Celtic hold far too much sway over the Scottish football authorities.

[GinRummy]

12 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

The correct outcome. He should be held up as an inspiration for those seeking to turn their lives around. 

I agree. Too often offenders just carry on with a life of crime after release. Good to see someone publicly showing you can change.

[Mikey1874]

5 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

So that's Martindale freed of the baggage of organised crime for his employment. No such air freshener for the SFA

 

Without going into the SFA's handling of child abuse which we'll come to later.

 

Here's some interesting background to the case.

 

[Riccarton3]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Without going into the SFA's handling of child abuse which we'll come to later.

 

Here's some interesting background to the case.

 

The whole 'fit and proper' concept, even that kind of pompous terminology, really grates with me. The organisation dealing with this has effected all manner of corruption including match fixing (historical cup semi finals). Maybe not the current incumbents but certainly past blazers. 

 

I think a fit re financial propriety is more important than situations such as Martindale.

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Riccarton3

[john thomas]

8 hours ago, GinRummy said:

How can any hearts fan use the phrase 'Celtic conspiracy nonsense'? You hardly need a tinfoil hat and ten year supply of canned goods to appreciate Celtic hold far too much sway over the Scottish football authorities.

 

[john thomas]

8 hours ago, GinRummy said:

How can any hearts fan use the phrase 'Celtic conspiracy nonsense'? You hardly need a tinfoil hat and ten year supply of canned goods to appreciate Celtic hold far too much sway over the Scottish football authorities.

In this context it is clearly nonsense .

[GinRummy]

Just now, john thomas said:

In this context it is clearly nonsense .

Nothing clear about it. Celtic influence with the Scottish football authorities is unquestionable. How do you or I know how manipulative they choose to be or how they decide to use their ‘friends’ in high places. It’s justifiable speculation is what it is. 

[john thomas]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Nothing clear about it. Celtic influence with the Scottish football authorities is unquestionable. How do you or I know how manipulative they choose to be or how they decide to use their ‘friends’ in high places. It’s justifiable speculation is what it is. 

So Lawwell tells Doncaster to arrange the hearing with Martindale on the same day as Livi are playing Celtic in order to demotivate/derail them and give Celtic an edge over their opponents ?

This would be ignoring the fact that the previous meeting had been cancelled and this rescheduling was done before the fixture was rearranged . Also Martindale knew , certainly on the previous Saturday , that the new date was going to be changed

All sounds feasible , logical and , certainly , justifiable .

 

[Tommy Brown]

8 hours ago, john thomas said:

So Lawwell tells Doncaster to arrange the hearing with Martindale on the same day as Livi are playing Celtic in order to demotivate/derail them and give Celtic an edge over their opponents ?

This would be ignoring the fact that the previous meeting had been cancelled and this rescheduling was done before the fixture was rearranged . Also Martindale knew , certainly on the previous Saturday , that the new date was going to be changed

All sounds feasible , logical and , certainly , justifiable .

 

 

To have it on a match day. Come on.

It could have been rearranged not to clash with a fixture.

[ford donald]

19 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Without going into the SFA's handling of child abuse which we'll come to later.

 

Here's some interesting background to the case.

 

 Interesting the person advising Livingston FC is himself a convicted criminal! Makes you wonder.

[john thomas]

6 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

To have it on a match day. Come on.

It could have been rearranged not to clash with a fixture.

It was rearranged . Wasn't claiming SFA were good administrators .

Read my post

[Tommy Brown]

53 minutes ago, john thomas said:

It was rearranged . Wasn't claiming SFA were good administrators .

Read my post

Good point.

By the looks of it DM accepted he would still go the meeting when the fixture got changed. He probably also felt he wasn't in best position to ask for it to be moved again.

[Diego10]

On 27/01/2021 at 10:17, Locky said:

I don't think anyone is of that belief at all. I'm all for such a system if it stops the Claude Anelka's of the world rocking up at clubs and ruining them. But that system has to be fair and consistent. The SFA had no concerns about letting convicted violent criminal Declan Gallagher play for them as I mentioned, or indeed as others have pointed out, they had no issues with the racist and sexist bigot Malky Mackay overseeing a key role in their set up.

 

The minute David Martindale was appointed caretaker manager, the SFA should've been right on top of them. Put that into a real life work situation. Imagine landing your dream job on a probationary basis, passing that probation and being given it full time, only to be told that no one has ever received your disclosure so there's a chance you're back out on your arse.

 

Vetting is done, and done for a reason in almost all walks of employment. Rightly so. But this situation just had the potential to be another shadow cast on our game due to incompetence. Thankfully, danger averted an

So my point was more that as he's going to be the manager and have a duty of care to players, oversee youth teams etc that that should be a position that is subject to licensing checks.  As it is.  Agreed that they should have done it immediately.

 

Players don't have that level of responsibility, and it's not just about the crime or they'd have blocked him being a coach.

 

There's grey areas I'll admit.  I think Gallagher should be able to play but I don't think it's appropriate to have him playing for Scotland.  Mackay hasn't committed a crime but again I don't think he should have got his job.

[Locky]

2 hours ago, Diego10 said:

So my point was more that as he's going to be the manager and have a duty of care to players, oversee youth teams etc that that should be a position that is subject to licensing checks.  As it is.  Agreed that they should have done it immediately.

 

Players don't have that level of responsibility, and it's not just about the crime or they'd have blocked him being a coach.

 

There's grey areas I'll admit.  I think Gallagher should be able to play but I don't think it's appropriate to have him playing for Scotland.  Mackay hasn't committed a crime but again I don't think he should have got his job.

What I think was worse in the case of Martindale, is that he's been overseeing various aspects of the football club for a few years now, as well as being ever present in the dugout, but as he wasn't manager in name, there was zero requirement, or indeed right to carry out this test. All in, it was much ado about nothing really, but as usual, the SFA handle it in such a nonsense manner.

[vegas-voss]

6 minutes ago, Locky said:

What I think was worse in the case of Martindale, is that he's been overseeing various aspects of the football club for a few years now, as well as being ever present in the dugout, but as he wasn't manager in name, there was zero requirement, or indeed right to carry out this test. All in, it was much ado about nothing really, but as usual, the SFA handle it in such a nonsense manner.

What does it matter what position he holds if he is fit cause of the conviction to be a footballer manager he should never have been involved at all.As you say much ado about nothing.

[Cruyff]

12 minutes ago, Locky said:

What I think was worse in the case of Martindale, is that he's been overseeing various aspects of the football club for a few years now, as well as being ever present in the dugout, but as he wasn't manager in name, there was zero requirement, or indeed right to carry out this test. All in, it was much ado about nothing really, but as usual, the SFA handle it in such a nonsense manner.

Yep. All seems ridiculous considering he's been there for years.

Anyway, I'm chuffed for the guy and he's doing an unbelievable job. He obviously commands a lot of respect from the players and they play for him. He's a credit to himself and if anything he's a great example of how rehabilitation can work and hopefully it'll spur others on to do better. 

[Locky]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Yep. All seems ridiculous considering he's been there for years.

Anyway, I'm chuffed for the guy and he's doing an unbelievable job. He obviously commands a lot of respect from the players and they play for him. He's a credit to himself and if anything he's a great example of how rehabilitation can work and hopefully it'll spur others on to do better. 

Saw something last night that only 3 managers in Scottish top flight history have a better record at the start of their tenure with a club. Sure all were Celtic managers too.

 

I love seeing coaches get a chance in the game who never had much of a playing career. It's not too common on these shores where there's a very heavy 'jobs for the boys' culture. I've done quite a lot of coaching at several age groups, but as someone who never really played much football, I've often found myself patronised and overlooked. Love these wee success stories from the little guys in the game.

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Locky said:

Saw something last night that only 3 managers in Scottish top flight history have a better record at the start of their tenure with a club. Sure all were Celtic managers too.

 

I love seeing coaches get a chance in the game who never had much of a playing career. It's not too common on these shores where there's a very heavy 'jobs for the boys' culture. I've done quite a lot of coaching at several age groups, but as someone who never really played much football, I've often found myself patronised and overlooked. Love these wee success stories from the little guys in the game.

Just need to keep at it and ignore folk. Not all good players make good coaches. 👍

[john thomas]

5 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Good point.

By the looks of it DM accepted he would still go the meeting when the fixture got changed. He probably also felt he wasn't in best position to ask for it to be moved again.

Wasn't the hearing on Tuesday ? No game

[132goals1958]

On 26/01/2021 at 22:45, graygo said:

 

I'd rather hold up someone who has never been involved in organised crime as inspiration.

(I get what you're saying though)

 

Whilst it is highly commendable that he has forged a career and turned his life around I feel some of the rhetoric in terms of inspirational and a shining example is a bit OTT. It would be more appropriate if he was allowed to get quietly on about his business. It seems he has made a genuine effort in terms of contrition and it would be to his credit if uses his profile to dissuade and educate others possibly through some forms of community initiative. Sadly there will have been victims along the way but crucially the guy is now leading a better existence.

[JackLadd]

This football management lark is overrated when a lag collecting cones is tearing it up so easy. Says a lot about other dumplings with much bigger budgets.

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

 

Whilst it is highly commendable that he has forged a career and turned his life around I feel some of the rhetoric in terms of inspirational and a shining example is a bit OTT. It would be more appropriate if he was allowed to get quietly on about his business. It seems he has made a genuine effort in terms of contrition and it would be to his credit if uses his profile to dissuade and educate others possibly through some forms of community initiative. Sadly there will have been victims along the way but crucially the guy is now leading a better existence.

 

Well put. 👍

[Mikey1874]

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

Motherwell 3-1 Livingston 

 

Martindale thought the defending was criminal 🤣