Irving - signs for SK Austria Klagenfurt ( updated )

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Irving has basic natural talent.

 

What he hasn’t shown is the drive to improve himself. 
 

He is one player I happen to believe hasn’t been shackled by Neilson - he just always takes the easy option.

 

I think he thinks his natural talent alone will get him a decent move/career. He’s in for a shock.

 

Is our team materially weaker without him in midfield?

 

No.

[Des Lynam]

Last season was a real chance for him to stand out and it never materialised. 

[Absolute Scenes]

6 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Last season was a real chance for him to stand out and it never materialised. 

Yep i agree with this

 

Think back to the previous time we were in the championship. Walker, Nicholson, even Holt all stood up and shone in that league, a much more challenging league back then with Hibs and Rangers competing also. Irving never really shone last season, apart from one or two moments

[Mikey1874]

15 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Irving has basic natural talent.

 

What he hasn’t shown is the drive to improve himself. 
 

He is one player I happen to believe hasn’t been shackled by Neilson - he just always takes the easy option.

 

I think he thinks his natural talent alone will get him a decent move/career. He’s in for a shock.

 

Is our team materially weaker without him in midfield?

 

No.

 

We showed that in the last few games.

 

My impression is the way we played with much better players in Souttar and Haring being back and McKay-Steven through middle was a lot quicker.

 

Quick football seems to pass Irving by. But he got a decent chance this season. 

[upgotheheads]

25 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Last season was a real chance for him to stand out and it never materialised. 

 

33 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

He's never really shown enough to make me think he'd be a first choice midfielder in the premiership.

Not really bothered if he stays or goes.

 

48 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

If he doesn't think that Hearts is the  right club for him then he can just go. 

 

Portobello Pirlo my arse. A decent left peg but no pace, guts or heart.

 

Let's see where he ends up and how he develops.

 

 

I'm a fan but it's hard to disagree with the above. The fact that he didn't figure much in the last few games might be an indication of how the coaches view him, and whatever we want to believe they're more often right that wrong.

I hope he stays, but it might be a turning point in his career, one way or the other.

[77Mackay77]

1 hour ago, buzzbomb said:

The boy doesn’t think he’s made it. The boy is trying to make it. From what the boy has heard/not heard from Robbie and savage doesn’t make him think Hearts is the best place for him to make it. Money is not the issue.

100% this.

Hearts have made him a very poor offer. And he is heartbroken about it. He really doesn’t want to leave the club he loves and supports.
 

But the offer is way below even the average first team squad wage and way way below the market rate.

 

Since it has been clear he wasn’t going to sign the poor offer he has effectively been sidelined by Neilson and treated very poorly by him and his staff. While Neilson has made comments to the press like “we have made him a good offer”, which is simply a lie. (And I’ve generally been supportive of Neilson) 

 

I don’t agree with the he’s not good enough comments, but these things are subjective. However, he definitely doesn’t think he “has made it”. But when the manager treats you poorly and the club offers you a fraction of the market rate does he really have any other choice other than to leave?

 

He would happily play for Hearts for half of what he could get elsewhere and I don’t think there are many, if any, other players at the club that you could say that about.  

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, 77Mackay77 said:

100% this.

Hearts have made him a very poor offer. And he is heartbroken about it. He really doesn’t want to leave the club he loves and supports.
 

But the offer is way below even the average first team squad wage and way way below the market rate.

 

Since it has been clear he wasn’t going to sign the poor offer he has effectively been sidelined by Neilson and treated very poorly by him and his staff. While Neilson has made comments to the press like “we have made him a good offer”, which is simply a lie. (And I’ve generally been supportive of Neilson) 

 

I don’t agree with the he’s not good enough comments, but these things are subjective. However, he definitely doesn’t think he “has made it”. But when the manager treats you poorly and the club offers you a fraction of the market rate does he really have any other choice other than to leave?

 

He would happily play for Hearts for half of what he could get elsewhere and I don’t think there are many, if any, other players at the club that you could say that about.  

 

Your depiction of him being treated badly ignored that he still played and was always in the squad. He came on as a sub in the last games he didn't start. 

 

It also ignores that football is a very hard business. It's for people who can get their head down, work hard and prove they deserve to play. But it's still hard. 

 

This anti Neilson narrative is familiar. 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, 77Mackay77 said:

100% this.

Hearts have made him a very poor offer. And he is heartbroken about it. He really doesn’t want to leave the club he loves and supports.
 

But the offer is way below even the average first team squad wage and way way below the market rate.

 

Since it has been clear he wasn’t going to sign the poor offer he has effectively been sidelined by Neilson and treated very poorly by him and his staff. While Neilson has made comments to the press like “we have made him a good offer”, which is simply a lie. (And I’ve generally been supportive of Neilson) 

 

I don’t agree with the he’s not good enough comments, but these things are subjective. However, he definitely doesn’t think he “has made it”. But when the manager treats you poorly and the club offers you a fraction of the market rate does he really have any other choice other than to leave?

 

He would happily play for Hearts for half of what he could get elsewhere and I don’t think there are many, if any, other players at the club that you could say that about.  

 

He's 20 and isn't a guaranteed starter, damn straight he should be getting way below the average first team wage

[77Mackay77]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Your depiction of him being treated badly ignored that he still played and was always in the squad. He came on as a sub in the last games he didn't start. 

 

It also ignores that football is a very hard business. It's for people who can get their head down, work hard and prove they deserve to play. But it's still hard. 

 

This anti Neilson narrative is familiar. 

I don’t think I could have made it any clearer or where I have stood/do stand on Neilson so to try and suggest my comments are a familiar anti Neilson narrative is just nonsense.

 

And clearly you don’t understand that it is possible to be in the squad and even play while being pushed aside and treated poorly by the manager. You don’t have to be left at home on match days to be treated poorly.

[Des Lynam]

Just now, 77Mackay77 said:

I don’t think I could have made it any clearer or where I have stood/do stand on Neilson so to try and suggest my comments are a familiar anti Neilson narrative is just nonsense.

 

And clearly you don’t understand that it is possible to be in the squad and even play while being pushed aside and treated poorly by the manager. You don’t have to be left at home on match days to be treated poorly.

I’d ignore the anti Neilson narrative stuff. Surely the contract offer included an increase if he became a first choice regular? 

[77Mackay77]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

He's 20 and isn't a guaranteed starter, damn straight he should be getting way below the average first team wage

I don’t think his age is relevant to his wage. It’s not relevant for any footballer other than youth players.

 

He has made more first team appearances than the majority of the first team squad so yeah I personally think it is fair for him to be getting something around the average. Although as I said, the offer is way below that.

Edited June 10, 2021 by 77Mackay77
Typo

[Mighty jam]

1 hour ago, johnking123 said:

Sorry. Did actually mean Severin. 

agreed! that statement is a massive disservice to Scott Severin. Severin had far more drive, determination and grit and would have been an absolute star the the championship gone. Unlike Irvine who gets pass marks but only just!

 

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, 77Mackay77 said:

I don’t think his age is relevant to his wage. It’s not relevant for any footballer other than youth players.

 

He has made more first team appearances than the majority of the first team squad so yeah I personally think it is fair for him to be getting something around the average. Although as I said, the offer is way below that.

 

I do, if you're 20 and getting an average first team wage what do you expect when you're 23, 26, 29?

 

If he was truly exceptional and had smashed the championship I'd agree, but he's not at a level to justify that kind of wage at his age.

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I do, if you're 20 and getting an average first team wage what do you expect when you're 23, 26, 29?

 

If he was truly exceptional and had smashed the championship I'd agree, but he's not at a level to justify that kind of wage at his age.

 

What about if we had offered to make Hickey one of our higher earners (ignoring the overpaid guys like Damour)? Surely his age is irrelevant in that case.

 

Just saying it should be based on where that player is and where we see them progressing. For me, Irvign was a regular in our midfield and there was nothing to suggest that would have changed this season so he should have be paid on that basis, regardless of age. It's an investment.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

What about if we had offered to make Hickey one of our higher earners (ignoring the overpaid guys like Damour)? Surely his age is irrelevant in that case.

 

Just saying it should be based on where that player is and where we see them progressing. For me, Irvign was a regular in our midfield and there was nothing to suggest that would have changed this season so he should have be paid on that basis, regardless of age. It's an investment.

That's why I said if he'd been truly exceptional and smashed the championship I'd agree. But he didn't.

[Nookie Bear]

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

That's why I said if he'd been truly exceptional and smashed the championship I'd agree. But he didn't.

 

No, but he performed as well as most of the rest so should be on a parity with them.

[jambopilms]

IF the club offered a shite contract it's because they don't think he is worth more. If they thought he was worth big wages they would offer big wages.

I can't see a place in the team for someone who has no pace and can't tackle.

[jambos are go!]

I would keep him for his passing ability alone. Almost as good as Stevie Fulton. There can be no greater compliment. 

[Jambo92]

Its a shame, but always felt like he needs us more than we need him, maybe we will be proven wrong but personally think 2 years more at Hearts would be the best thing for his career. Just need to look at guys like John McGinn, Kenny McLean to see the route to take.  He's not been a standout in the championship, would expect him to follow in footsteps of Adam King, Jordan mcghee etc.

[Dazo]

31 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

No, but he performed as well as most of the rest so should be on a parity with them.

So we continue the cycle of overpaying under performers ?

 

Very few if any of our out of contract players are in any position to demand the same wages as the rest. 

[Unknown user]

27 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

No, but he performed as well as most of the rest so should be on a parity with them.

 

He played well at times, not so well at others, in the championship.

He hasn't proven himself yet and isn't exceptional enough to push the boat out for.

The club isn't made of money, and isn't 52k a year, nearly double the average wage, pretty decent for a 20 year old?

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

He played well at times, not so well at others, in the championship.

He hasn't proven himself yet and isn't exceptional enough to push the boat out for.

The club isn't made of money, and isn't 52k a year, nearly double the average wage, pretty decent for a 20 year old?

 

Not sure the average wage is relevant here, considering what some of our lot get paid.

 

I suppose it comes down to who replaces him - because he will need replaced - and whether that player will be better and how much it will cost us.

[Robdawg]

4 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I don't know what he's been offered or if he will sign on the dotted line but I am led to believe he really doesn't put in any extra effort to improve himself. Does training (I'm sure he gives 100% for that) but while others take extra practice or go to the gym to build up strength and stamina he just goes home or wherever. Now I don't know him at all but I would always hope that youngsters trying to make it in the game would go the extra mile every day to improve their chances of being a success. 

 

For me as a player and given time he can cause teams problems but, in our leagues you get no time and need a quick mind and feet. He's pretty slow over the ground and is imo, too easily pushed off the ball (which is where the extra strength training would be a bonus). But hey, that's just my opinion.

All 💩💩

[Unknown user]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

Not sure the average wage is relevant here, considering what some of our lot get paid.

 

I suppose it comes down to who replaces him - because he will need replaced - and whether that player will be better and how much it will cost us.

 

Just saying he's been offered good money.

We have other youngsters in, working on their game over summer for a shot at the team, Conor Smith is one I'm looking forward to seeing more of

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Just saying he's been offered good money.

We have other youngsters in, working on their game over summer for a shot at the team, Conor Smith is one I'm looking forward to seeing more of

 

Doubt he will get a sniff next season.

 

Or, in true Hearts fashion, he will get chucked in at Parkhead and never seen again

[mitch41]

I’m of the thinking that if at the end of the day it doesn’t really come down to if he’s a Jambo or not. Irving was a breath of fresh air when as a youngster he out performed older players who were already in the team. He became a regular starter in the team and whether the contract dispute or the lack of help to develop his all round game/skills there has been a problem with him not starting more games this season. Something has definitely held the young man back and it doesn’t look good for younger players who are looking to get into the current Hearts team. The wage structure/targets for young player apprenticeships have to be aimed at helping them become a quality top players has to be a high priority. And that must not stop when they succeed in getting into the first team squad. If only we knew the right people/structure was in place but we can only hope because it will take years before we can see on the pitch if Hearts have got it right. 

[Absolute Scenes]

2 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I’m of the thinking that if at the end of the day it doesn’t really come down to if he’s a Jambo or not. Irving was a breath of fresh air when as a youngster he out performed older players who were already in the team. He became a regular starter in the team and whether the contract dispute or the lack of help to develop his all round game/skills there has been a problem with him not starting more games this season. Something has definitely held the young man back and it doesn’t look good for younger players who are looking to get into the current Hearts team. The wage structure/targets for young player apprenticeships have to be aimed at helping them become a quality top players has to be a high priority. And that must not stop when they succeed in getting into the first team squad. If only we knew the right people/structure was in place but we can only hope because it will take years before we can see on the pitch if Hearts have got it right. 

 

Maybe its the players fault

Maybe they have a big ego

Maybe they are offered more than most clubs would offer young players, but they get greedy

Maybee....

[Seymour M Hersh]

34 minutes ago, Robdawg said:

All 💩💩

 

Anything other than asinine emojis to back that up? 

[Last Laff]

14 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

Maybe its the players fault

Maybe they have a big ego

Maybe they are offered more than most clubs would offer young players, but they get greedy

Maybee....

he's witnessed the site getting paid much more than him and thought it was a piss take and not felt wanted enough under a shit boring, uninspiring head coach?

[Absolute Scenes]

36 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

he's witnessed the site getting paid much more than him and thought it was a piss take and not felt wanted enough under a shit boring, uninspiring head coach?

What would merit him, a 20 year old, being paid more than senior players? What’s he done consistently to establish himself?

[Last Laff]

Just now, Absolute Scenes said:

What would merit him, a 20 year old, being paid more than senior players? What’s he done consistently to establish himself?

Perhaps he seen the likes of Martin, Damour, Osh, Whelan getting paid a lot lot more than he's been offered and doesn't feel valued enough?  Perhaps Stendel said he would earn more for it to be retracted?  Probably somewhere in the middle.

[Nookie Bear]

13 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

What would merit him, a 20 year old, being paid more than senior players? What’s he done consistently to establish himself?

 

Why does his age count against him?

 

Either we can't sign anyone over 30 because they are past it, or we can't pay decent wages to anyone under 21 because they are too young. seems like we just jump through hoops on here to try and justify a scattergun transfer/contracts policy.

[TheBigO]

5 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I don't know what he's been offered or if he will sign on the dotted line but I am led to believe he really doesn't put in any extra effort to improve himself. Does training (I'm sure he gives 100% for that) but while others take extra practice or go to the gym to build up strength and stamina he just goes home or wherever. Now I don't know him at all but I would always hope that youngsters trying to make it in the game would go the extra mile every day to improve their chances of being a success. 

 

For me as a player and given time he can cause teams problems but, in our leagues you get no time and need a quick mind and feet. He's pretty slow over the ground and is imo, too easily pushed off the ball (which is where the extra strength training would be a bonus). But hey, that's just my opinion.

I'd be hugely surprised if that's the case.  No itk, don't know the lad, but know folk who do a little and he's a very centred and hard working kid from what I've heard.

 

What I've seen from Andy in the last few months is a lad who is completely bereft of motivation and guidance.

 

Let's stop blaming players for not improving and start seeing that our club haven't improved a single player for quite some years.  Hickey, OK, but how much would you say he developed between 16 and 18 really?  He'll now go from strength to strength.

 

Do not underestimate how much strong examples, coaching and culture play a part.  Personal responsibility is a real thing, but at the end of the day, if you make your club feel like a job, players will treat it like a job.

 

As I say, all just my opinion, but I'm a bit fed up of players, kids especially, being called out, slagged off etc, when it's the club's job to provide an environment for them to thrive.

 

We get a lad like Andy on our books with brilliant talent, just such a natural talent, and they've not a ****ing clue what to do with the boy.  Yeah, we'll bring in Halliday to help get the best out of him.  Aye, guid, well done.

 

I really wanted Irving to stay with us and take steps to being Scotland's next Barry Ferguson type midfielder.  Oh well, don't nurture him.  Great example for the next gen of kids too.

 

Not one to continually bash the club, like many do on here, think that would be fair to say on myself, but I'm pissed off about this and our inability to turn 16-18 yearold talent into real first team assets.  Joe Savage has a big job on his hands.

[Mr Rabbit]

3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Why does his age count against him?

 

Either we can't sign anyone over 30 because they are past it, or we can't pay decent wages to anyone under 21 because they are too young. seems like we just jump through hoops on here to try and justify a scattergun transfer/contracts policy.

It shouldn’t but we’re not talking about Mbappe here. He’s played a handful of good games in a poor team. However hadn’t consistently shown that he’s a starter week in week out. That hardly merits being made one of our top earners. We’d be paying for potential not ability which the jury is still out on.

 

The comments about Damour, Whelan and Martin have merit however each of them has performed at a higher level elsewhere and has done so consistently. The fact they didn’t show that at us is irrelevant to the salaries they commanded at the time. 
 

FWIW I would like to keep him and believe he deserves more on what has been quoted on here. However without proof I’m not going to berate the club for messing up here.

[Nookie Bear]

5 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

I'd be hugely surprised if that's the case.  No itk, don't know the lad, but know folk who do a little and he's a very centred and hard working kid from what I've heard.

 

What I've seen from Andy in the last few months is a lad who is completely bereft of motivation and guidance.

 

Let's stop blaming players for not improving and start seeing that our club haven't improved a single player for quite some years.  Hickey, OK, but how much would you say he developed between 16 and 18 really?  He'll now go from strength to strength.

 

Do not underestimate how much strong examples, coaching and culture play a part.  Personal responsibility is a real thing, but at the end of the day, if you make your club feel like a job, players will treat it like a job.

 

As I say, all just my opinion, but I'm a bit fed up of players, kids especially, being called out, slagged off etc, when it's the club's job to provide an environment for them to thrive.

 

We get a lad like Andy on our books with brilliant talent, just such a natural talent, and they've not a ****ing clue what to do with the boy.  Yeah, we'll bring in Halliday to help get the best out of him.  Aye, guid, well done.

 

I really wanted Irving to stay with us and take steps to being Scotland's next Barry Ferguson type midfielder.  Oh well, don't nurture him.  Great example for the next gen of kids too.

 

Not one to continually bash the club, like many do on here, think that would be fair to say on myself, but I'm pissed off about this and our inability to turn 16-18 yearold talent into real first team assets.  Joe Savage has a big job on his hands.

 

Excellent post.

 

Unlike you, i am way too keen to attack the club and this is an area where we fall short.

 

We expect players to be the finished product after 50 first team games and seem incapable of helping them develop into decent players. I am not expecting Irving to be the next Iniesta but surely we can produce a solid midfielder, but we will never know if we do not put our faith in them. We then go into the transfer market to try and improve the position and buy players who are flawed because that is the market we are operating in!

[jamboinglasgow]

So either Andy or (more likely) a member of his family is telling everyone they know about contract negotiations (which is maybe not the best tactic) with all the people on here who know exact figures being negotiated. 

[TheBigO]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

Excellent post.

 

Unlike you, i am way too keen to attack the club and this is an area where we fall short.

 

We expect players to be the finished product after 50 first team games and seem incapable of helping them develop into decent players. I am not expecting Irving to be the next Iniesta but surely we can produce a solid midfielder, but we will never know if we do not put our faith in them. We then go into the transfer market to try and improve the position and buy players who are flawed because that is the market we are operating in!

Thing is bud, no problem with bringing in guys from the transfer market - if we get it right.  It's then up to the academy grads - with the club's help - to meet and surpass the standard of player we are bringing in.  Loic Damour comes in and actually lives up to his pedigree... Andy Irving: "OK, Loic, really, well watch this ya dobber...".  But we've been bringing in guys who coast or look good then fall into malaise - how does that motivate kids!?

 

Issue here again is a mixture of poor recruitment and poor coaching.  You bring in a definite talent like Sean Clare and basically misuse him for 2 seasons then let him go.  He should actually be brought in and be an example of what a footballer looks like.  Let's not get in to a Sean Clare debate on this thread, I merely mean that type of signing - bit of a coup, good pedigree, would hope to make some dosh out of it.  We just never pull it off, and I think the majority reason for it is our coaching and 1st team culture.  What are our boys aspiring to?  What are their examples?  Stories from the older pros?  All good, but an anecdote of how you got to Everton is different from seeing people succeed right infront of your eyes.

 

As I say, Joe Savage has a big job on his hands.  Definitely.

 

As good example of how it can work well for our kids by signing good players is just how much Soapy improved as soon as we brought Christophe Berra back.  It was no coincidence at all.  Few and far between though.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

8 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

No people are allowed to have a different opinion, wind yer neck in. 

Wind yer neck in??

What opinion do you have regarding the situation that’s different to mine? I haven’t given an opinion either way.

I haven’t heard contract amounts released by either an agent, the player or the team. So like most I can’t say he’s being low balled or asking for an exorbitant amount I know he’s not worthy of. Posters keep posting pay him what he’s worth. But don’t say what that number is. If he stays then he agrees with the number Hearts offered. If he leaves then I have to assume he got what he wanted somewhere else.

Doesn’t change the fact it’s a perfect breeding thread for #obos.

 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

6 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

ooft…new 3rd strip…glorious…so proud…that’s getting bought…

Already ordered. I hope it feels as good as it looks. 👀

[jambopilms]

Folk don't know what he has been offered and folk don't know what his agent is demanding.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

he's witnessed the site getting paid much more than him and thought it was a piss take and not felt wanted enough under a shit boring, uninspiring head coach?

We need numbers. Come on tell us the facts. Names and how much more per week please. Then we can all make up our own mind on how good or bad he’s been treated. That’s all we ask.

[Last Laff]

Just now, alwaysthereinspirit said:

We need numbers. Come on tell us the facts. Names and how much more per week please. Then we can all make up our own mind on how good or bad he’s been treated. That’s all we ask.

I hope it comes out in the end but probably swept under the carpet.

 

So much aggression in your post, no need. 

[ginger jambo98]

3 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Folk don't know what he has been offered and folk don't know what his agent is demanding.

Correct, although doesn’t stop some quoting figures which they believe to be fact even though they couldn’t possibly know. Hearsay, jungle drums, Chinese whispers etc etc.

[DH1986]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Anything other than asinine emojis to back that up? 

The irony…………

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

What is the “going rate” for a young player post covid? Bet it’s less than it was 18 months ago. It’s a shame but that’s where the world is.

 

As regards the way young players have been treated by Neilson and how they then perform when given the chance I’d say look at Irving and contrast with Hendo.

 

Hendo had every right to be highly aggrieved he didn’t get more of a chance this season and take the huff but he himself and his attitude in the last few games grasped the chance and showed real hunger and determination 

 

For all his talent I didn’t see a lot of hunger/s determination in Irving this season.

 

Might be harsh but what I saw.

 

 

[Spellczech]

54 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Excellent post.

 

Unlike you, i am way too keen to attack the club and this is an area where we fall short.

 

We expect players to be the finished product after 50 first team games and seem incapable of helping them develop into decent players. I am not expecting Irving to be the next Iniesta but surely we can produce a solid midfielder, but we will never know if we do not put our faith in them. We then go into the transfer market to try and improve the position and buy players who are flawed because that is the market we are operating in!

I think Irvine has been a victim of Hearts not doing the basics of squad and team creation. We all know that the reason Irvine is not the next Iniesta is because he lacks some pace and muscle - that's why he's at Hearts not Barca!. The muscle could develop but pace is unlikely to. Lack of pace has not just been Irvine's failing, it has been the failing of the whole squad particularly the midfield in the last few years - there simply was no other midfielder who had the pace which Irvine, and Cockrane for that matter, lack. A midfield needs balance, if one CM lacks brawn you pair him with someone who is not shy of putting it about a bit. If one midfielder lacks pace, you pair him with someone who can pick up the pacy opposition CM instead...It's not rocket-science, it's common sense... Instead we saw our young lads flying into late challenges and injuring themselves, or pulling players back and picking up cards, because there was no cover for them.

 

For example, (and I know it is another level entirely) but Paul Scholes was a superb midfielder, but his tackling was dreadful, so he was paired with Roy Keane...

Edited June 10, 2021 by Spellczech

[Martin_T]

The Irving we saw under Stendel, particularly in the home league win over Rangers, is exciting and dynamic. However the player we saw in the Championship last season is pedestrian and dull and certainly not worth breaking the bank for.

 

Good luck to him if he thinks he can make it elsewhere, I suspect he'll be back up in Scotland with 18 months at a smaller club than Hearts, no doubt regaling team mates and fans alike about how he once saw Victor Valdes in the changing rooms a la Jordan McGhee.  

[Rogue Daddy]

55 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Why does his age count against him?

 

Either we can't sign anyone over 30 because they are past it, or we can't pay decent wages to anyone under 21 because they are too young. seems like we just jump through hoops on here to try and justify a scattergun transfer/contracts policy.

You would think, in this day and age, if a youngster (18/19/20) on a youngsters wage were to start, say, 20 senior games - there would be a salary bump/trigger or clause activated on their contract?... who knows 🤷‍♂️ 

[Jamhammer]

He always seems a bit of a slow thinker to me. Takes time he doesn’t have.

Yes he can play a killer pass but doesn’t really impose himself

[sadj]

10 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I think Irvine has been a victim of Hearts not doing the basics of squad and team creation. We all know that the reason Irvine is not the next Iniesta is because he lacks some pace and muscle - that's why he's at Hearts not Barca!. The muscle could develop but pace is unlikely to. Lack of pace has not just been Irvine's failing, it has been the failing of the whole squad particularly the midfield in the last few years - there simply was no other midfielder who had the pace which Irvine, and Cockrane for that matter, lack. A midfield needs balance, if one CM lacks brawn you pair him with someone who is not shy of putting it about a bit. If one midfielder lacks pace, you pair him with someone who can pick up the pacy opposition CM instead...It's not rocket-science, it's common sense... Instead we saw our young lads flying into late challenges and injuring themselves, or pulling players back and picking up cards, because there was no cover for them.

One of Irvings biggest failings is his inability to use his second foot. Thats a huge no no for a lot of clubs nowadays. Even just some sort of basic ability with it. That is something he could easily sort with time in the training pitch. We saw plenty of times during the season where he took the ball for a walk but couldn’t get it on his left so ran it out of play. 
 

He has raw talent and I was really impressed with him early in the season (after slating him last season) but he then went back to how he had been under Stendel and thats not a good level of play. Especially if his agent (if rumours are to be believed) is filling his head with how good he is and hes too good to stay with us.  
 

He can pass a ball and has good vision when he has time , he ran the game v QoTS but being able to pass the ball and having a bit of vision count for **** all if you need 3weeks to do it , have no ability to track back and cant tackle. Muscle - meh , if he was playing lower league England he’d thrive I think. Any higher nope. He should stay with us and put the effort in on the aspects he struggles with and hed be a good asset to the club and country imo.

 

This blaming the club too is pish , its clear to anyone what he needs to improve. If that was me id be out there constantly using my wrong foot in training or kicking about to improve it and therefore improve my game. Thats as much on him as anything.