New training ground?

[jamboinglasgow]

Was reading the Ewan Murray with Ann Budge, there are some bits that can be dissected in another thread but one line caught my eye.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/19/hearts-owner-ann-budge-scottish-cup-final-celtic

 

"Budge will still be in the background – most likely as executive chair and looking at long-term projects such as a new training ground" 

 

Thats the first time I am aware that it has been confirmed we are looking towards a new training ground. I am sure someone mentioned a bit of time ago that we were looking to leave the Oriam as it costs too much to go a new training ground but at the time I thought it was the usual nonsense that originates from Hibs fans claiming we cant pay the bills at Heriot-Watt.

 

Has anyone else heard this?

[John Findlay]

We are currently on a 25 year lease at present I believe. It doeant have long to run out 5-7 years.

So now is the time to look to the future( though I suspect we have been for at least the last two years), 

A new training complex will be high on her to do list.

[jamboozy]

I would like us to have our own training facilities, but as usual money would be the problem.

 

Benefactor anyone 😎

[Wee Mikey]

5 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

Was reading the Ewan Murray with Ann Budge, there are some bits that can be dissected in another thread but one line caught my eye.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/19/hearts-owner-ann-budge-scottish-cup-final-celtic

 

"Budge will still be in the background – most likely as executive chair and looking at long-term projects such as a new training ground" 

 

Thats the first time I am aware that it has been confirmed we are looking towards a new training ground. I am sure someone mentioned a bit of time ago that we were looking to leave the Oriam as it costs too much to go a new training ground but at the time I thought it was the usual nonsense that originates from Hibs fans claiming we cant pay the bills at Heriot-Watt.

 

Has anyone else heard this?

Excellent spot, thanks, and essential reading that answers quite a few questions.

 

Clearly wanting to leave the club in a good place come the 'handover'. Getting the infrastructure sorted is/was a mammoth task given where we were. I'm optomistic for the future.

[indianajones]

What was the cost of the 25 year lease with HW?

[jamboinglasgow]

2 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

Excellent spot, thanks, and essential reading that answers quite a few questions.

 

Clearly wanting to leave the club in a good place come the 'handover'. Getting the infrastructure sorted is/was a mammoth task given where we were. I'm optomistic for the future.

 

I think she is good at long term planning and ideas (certanly with infrastructure and off the pitch) , the problem is the short term can bog things down. She was trying to cover too much at the same time.

[indianajones]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

I’m sure it was £2.5m and £100k a year  

 

£5m total? 

 

Seems alright value for 25 years. Although £5m 25 years ago could've probably bought you a decent bit of ground and a fair bit of the construction costs. 

[Guest]

We'd still  be running around public parks were it not for Oriam

[Parttimer1874]

What’s the plan for the old school at Tynecastle. Houses I imagine so it’s unrealistic but it would be great to have something close to the stadium. 

[John Findlay]

Just now, Parttimer1874 said:

What’s the plan for the old school at Tynecastle. Houses I imagine so it’s unrealistic but it would be great to have something close to the stadium. 

Not enough land.

[Parttimer1874]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Not enough land.

We’ll just need to take the distillery too then. 🙂

[Footballfirst]

In the CVA proposal dated 15 November 2013, Heriot Watt Sports Village had a creditor claim of £5,125,626 against the club.

 

I would expect that figure is what Heriot Watt expected to receive from the club over the outstanding term of the lease (17 years).  That would work out at £300k per annum, which sounds about right, based on conversations I had with someone who worked in the HWU finance department around the time of Hearts financial problems. 

 

That lease payment only represents part of the costs of running the training centre. I'm certain that Hearts would also have been responsible for the day to day running costs of utility bills, cleaning, insurance etc.  

[jambo-rocker]

Unless it's being used as a means to get a better deal on the training facilities for ourselves. They'd surely have a huge gap of funding shortfall to run the place if we upped and left.

[luckydug]

Doesn't seem that long since I used to see the players running round the playing fields at Pinkie while sitting on the Number 26 bus. 

Time passes I'm getting old 😕

[Wee Mikey]

9 minutes ago, jambo-rocker said:

Unless it's being used as a means to get a better deal on the training facilities for ourselves. They'd surely have a huge gap of funding shortfall to run the place if we upped and left.

A bit 'Machiavellian' but I was thinking similar. Long-term though there's a good argument for being totally self sufficient. It would be a great legacy for Budge to leave us in a sound place after all of her efforts and travails (not to mention the unprecedented fan support which is awesome). On the park Hearts WILL bounce back, of that I have no doubt.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Wee Mikey

[davemclaren]

Ann mentioned this as a possible future project at the last FoH agm. 

[DETTY29]

9 minutes ago, jambo-rocker said:

Unless it's being used as a means to get a better deal on the training facilities for ourselves. They'd surely have a huge gap of funding shortfall to run the place if we upped and left.

As Oriam is the National Sports Performance Centre, other sports  could potentially take on our space and time.

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

As Oriam is the National Sports Performance Centre, other sports  could potentially take on our space and time.

But could they afford it?

[Wee Mikey]

48 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

I think she is good at long term planning and ideas (certanly with infrastructure and off the pitch) , the problem is the short term can bog things down. She was trying to cover too much at the same time.

Too true, and we've all been there in our private lives. All too easy to criticise those at the helm but I have no doubts that we've been steered on a sound course, all things considered. There must be more than a few clubs who look at us with envy.

[DETTY29]

Just now, JamboAl said:

But could they afford it?

There is that but many will get Lottery and Sports Scotland funding to help.

 

Hibs might end up there one day as replacement tenant.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said:

Was reading the Ewan Murray with Ann Budge, there are some bits that can be dissected in another thread but one line caught my eye.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/19/hearts-owner-ann-budge-scottish-cup-final-celtic

 

"Budge will still be in the background – most likely as executive chair and looking at long-term projects such as a new training ground" 

 

Thats the first time I am aware that it has been confirmed we are looking towards a new training ground. I am sure someone mentioned a bit of time ago that we were looking to leave the Oriam as it costs too much to go a new training ground but at the time I thought it was the usual nonsense that originates from Hibs fans claiming we cant pay the bills at Heriot-Watt.

 

Has anyone else heard this?

Really good read.

This may not reveal everything we want to know,worth reading as it does have a lot of insights.

 

On a different note, there is an article in the Celtic star that made me swear a few times.

If anyone wants to read it click the link if not don't have a go at me for posting it.

 

The Dirty lying cheating scumbag trampy weegie *******s need sorting out.

 

https://thecelticstar.com/blame-celtic-the-hearts-wrongly-relegation-myth-is-nonsense-just-like-same-club-lie-and-going-for-55-fantasy/

 

[norrie1952]

23 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Doesn't seem that long since I used to see the players running round the playing fields at Pinkie while sitting on the Number 26 bus. 

Time passes I'm getting old 😕

Yes I remember pinkie as well.time does pass quickly. 

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, Candy said:

We'd still  be running around public parks were it not for Oriam

Think that was the last time we had a good team. 
 

 

[Whatever]

I’d hate for us to end up with what Hibs have. Ie - a barn.

 

The (vermin) argument about owning your own facilities is nonsense if you end up with  a shit tip like they have.

 

It’s akin to my neighbour driving around in a clapped out fiesta and attempting to laugh at me with my 20 plate Merc because it’s leased. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Whatever said:

I’d hate for us to end up with what Hibs have. Ie - a barn.

 

The (vermin) argument about owning your own facilities is nonsense if you end up with  a shit tip like they have.

 

It’s akin to my neighbour driving around in a clapped out fiesta and attempting to laugh at me with my 20 plate Merc because it’s leased. 

Spot on.

 

Plus we will soon own something a lot more important.......our club!

[Restonbabe]

There is room for expansion at Oriam. It was discussed before covid. 

Oriam have there own aspersions. Hearts side of the building is 25+ years old. 

Talks of taking over Saughton Park and developing the aera as a state of the art performance Centre. However since the redevelopment of Meadowbank it wasnt an option. 

 

Hearts will expand our own facilities at Oriam. It just makes sense to. The space and integration with the performance wing of the Oriam including close links with Sport Scotland, the SFA, along with box soccer, Our youth, devlopment and women teams. 

 

Oriam will be in trouble if hearts don't commit as they will eventually lose sfa after murrayfield is finally redeveloped on the back pitches. 

 

I still find it difficult to comprehend why that space hasnt been utilised before. 

I know the water of leith strengthening works had to be signed off by the council before devlopment went underway. However murrayfield is Absloute massive along with roseburn Park the devlopment opportunity to construct an elite performance Centre to rival Oriam would bring even more potential to Scottish sport. Which in the long term is beneficial to the nation 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

4 minutes ago, Restonbabe said:

There is room for expansion at Oriam. It was discussed before covid. 

Oriam have there own aspersions. Hearts side of the building is 25+ years old. 

Talks of taking over Saughton Park and developing the aera as a state of the art performance Centre. However since the redevelopment of Meadowbank it wasnt an option. 

 

Hearts will expand our own facilities at Oriam. It just makes sense to. The space and integration with the performance wing of the Oriam including close links with Sport Scotland, the SFA, along with box soccer, Our youth, devlopment and women teams. 

 

Oriam will be in trouble if hearts don't commit as they will eventually lose sfa after murrayfield is finally redeveloped on the back pitches. 

 

I still find it difficult to comprehend why that space hasnt been utilised before. 

I know the water of leith strengthening works had to be signed off by the council before devlopment went underway. However murrayfield is Absloute massive along with roseburn Park the devlopment opportunity to construct an elite performance Centre to rival Oriam would bring even more potential to Scottish sport. Which in the long term is beneficial to the nation 

Nothing is set in stone.

Hearts do need their own space , away from prying eyes .

Ownership is far better than having a landlord, it is more expensive going all in alone and a bit of pie in the sky right now for our club for the next few years.

If Hearts do decide to leave Riccarton, it will be to their new training ground complex in Saughton Mains.

Bringing them closer to the stadium and the other sporting areas at Murrayfield etc.

The cost of this would be around £70M

[Baxfee]

Not bothered if we own or rent. Happy with whichever gives us the best facilities and the best deal, that will do for me

[Alec Eiffel]

2 hours ago, Parttimer1874 said:

We’ll just need to take the distillery too then. 🙂

 

Brown Field Site

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Good market to buy some land at the moment - must NOT use same contractors as for the stand though 😂😂

Edited December 19, 2020 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Gorgie Boot boy]

Just now, jonesy said:

The Celtic Star? WTF do you spend your time reading? And why would you give them the steam off yer pish, let alone the time it takes to read one of their propaganda pieces?  

Because it came up in a talk i had with someone, their mindset is ****ing shite for all to see, and you are correct on what you say.

Everyone of us knows the type of scum we face, all the more reason to beat their sorry arses tomorrow.

[Nookie Bear]

4 hours ago, jamboozy said:

I would like us to have our own training facilities, but as usual money would be the problem.

 

Benefactor anyone 😎

We have our own dedicated facilities at the Oriam as far as I can tell and obviously use of the pitches as well. Not sure what else we need - does the ownership really matter as long as we have a good relationship with the Oriam?

[Hungry hippo]

We're in a strong position to at worst negotiate with Heriot Watt and with James Anderson's backing have the opportunity to invest in a long term plan on expiry of the Riccarton lease.

 

I expect this will rightly be a high priority for Ann Budge once covid is out of the way.

[bobby bombscare]

6 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

We have our own dedicated facilities at the Oriam as far as I can tell and obviously use of the pitches as well. Not sure what else we need - does the ownership really matter as long as we have a good relationship with the Oriam?

I think it's worth noting that to build somewhere "of our own" with the kind of facilities that Oriam has, never mind better, would cost a LOT. Aberdeen paid 50 million to buy and construct the facilities they recently moved into and that's in Aberdeen, where the land is cheaper than a half time pie!

Due to Hearts being in Edinburgh, the land alone would be 10's of millions and that is before getting through  planning. Plus, we all know Edinburgh council operate on a brown envelope basis and as a fan owned/charity owned club, we can't do that. So even more money down the drain there. 

Then even once it's built, you will have to pay for the daily running and maintenance of the pitches, gym equipment, recovery-pool (if we want Oriam level facilities) etc.

This is all stuff that we currently have, but only pay part of the cost towards. As Scotland rugby, Edinburgh rugby, SFA and a host of other groups also use these facilities and pay for them. So to build a purpose built performance centre of our own would cost a fortune to run.

So either you pay more money per year than we already do (plus 10's of millions to build it). Just to say to the hobos that we own our facilities as well, or we rent it out to offset costs which defeats the idea of getting away from prying eyes.

The only plus side I see, is that if we did build something and rent it out with a good business plan, we could offset the running costs and reinvest those costs and any profits back into the first team?
 

 

Also, it's my first post! so thought I'd make it an essay!

 

[davemclaren]

26 minutes ago, bobby bombscare said:

I think it's worth noting that to build somewhere "of our own" with the kind of facilities that Oriam has, never mind better, would cost a LOT. Aberdeen paid 50 million to buy and construct the facilities they recently moved into and that's in Aberdeen, where the land is cheaper than a half time pie!

Due to Hearts being in Edinburgh, the land alone would be 10's of millions and that is before getting through  planning. Plus, we all know Edinburgh council operate on a brown envelope basis and as a fan owned/charity owned club, we can't do that. So even more money down the drain there. 

Then even once it's built, you will have to pay for the daily running and maintenance of the pitches, gym equipment, recovery-pool (if we want Oriam level facilities) etc.

This is all stuff that we currently have, but only pay part of the cost towards. As Scotland rugby, Edinburgh rugby, SFA and a host of other groups also use these facilities and pay for them. So to build a purpose built performance centre of our own would cost a fortune to run.

So either you pay more money per year than we already do (plus 10's of millions to build it). Just to say to the hobos that we own our facilities as well, or we rent it out to offset costs which defeats the idea of getting away from prying eyes.

The only plus side I see, is that if we did build something and rent it out with a good business plan, we could offset the running costs and reinvest those costs and any profits back into the first team?
 

 

Also, it's my first post! so thought I'd make it an essay!

 

You’re right. It’s a big commitment.  Good first post. 

[bobby bombscare]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

You’re right. It’s a big commitment.  Good first post. 

Cheers. Also.. turns out it's not my first post.. tried to post the other day and thought it never worked.

it did 😂

[Jambo61]

13 hours ago, jamboozy said:

I would like us to have our own training facilities, but as usual money would be the problem.

 

Benefactor anyone 😎

Just do a virtual online training ground and give them the same experience as the fans!

[Jambo61]

12 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Not enough land.

Out lot don't seem to run that far in a burst!

[OTT]

The facilities at Oriam are really impressive. I imagine renting rather than owning may create issues for the club in terms of not owning the asset? Real shame though, I hope some proper investment is garnered for a training centre. The last thing any one wants is a glorified cow shed like our neighbours. 

 

I assume buying a stake in Oriam is out of the question?

[Carl Fredrickson]

10 hours ago, bobby bombscare said:

I think it's worth noting that to build somewhere "of our own" with the kind of facilities that Oriam has, never mind better, would cost a LOT. Aberdeen paid 50 million to buy and construct the facilities they recently moved into and that's in Aberdeen, where the land is cheaper than a half time pie!

Due to Hearts being in Edinburgh, the land alone would be 10's of millions and that is before getting through  planning. Plus, we all know Edinburgh council operate on a brown envelope basis and as a fan owned/charity owned club, we can't do that. So even more money down the drain there. 

Then even once it's built, you will have to pay for the daily running and maintenance of the pitches, gym equipment, recovery-pool (if we want Oriam level facilities) etc.

This is all stuff that we currently have, but only pay part of the cost towards. As Scotland rugby, Edinburgh rugby, SFA and a host of other groups also use these facilities and pay for them. So to build a purpose built performance centre of our own would cost a fortune to run.

So either you pay more money per year than we already do (plus 10's of millions to build it). Just to say to the hobos that we own our facilities as well, or we rent it out to offset costs which defeats the idea of getting away from prying eyes.

The only plus side I see, is that if we did build something and rent it out with a good business plan, we could offset the running costs and reinvest those costs and any profits back into the first team?
 

 

Also, it's my first post! so thought I'd make it an essay!

 

 

A lot of valid points but does the training ground need to be in Edinburgh? Plenty of areas in Mid/West/East Lothian that could be cheaper land options. I would imagine that a lot of London clubs dont have training grounds near their grounds. 

 

I agree with the renting out part. In normal times there is demand for gyms and decent pitches. 

 

Would Mr Anderson donate and if so we could allow him naming rights for the facility. 

 

No harm in us looking at options and with the lease having a few years left, now may be the best time to do so. 

 

 

[DC_92]

10 hours ago, bobby bombscare said:

I think it's worth noting that to build somewhere "of our own" with the kind of facilities that Oriam has, never mind better, would cost a LOT. Aberdeen paid 50 million to buy and construct the facilities they recently moved into and that's in Aberdeen, where the land is cheaper than a half time pie!!

 

 

£50 million? I just checked and it ended up as £13m, with them having budgeted £10m. Are you not thinking of the overall projected cost for a combined new stadium and training ground complex?

[DC_92]

10 hours ago, bobby bombscare said:

I think it's worth noting that to build somewhere "of our own" with the kind of facilities that Oriam has, never mind better, would cost a LOT. Aberdeen paid 50 million to buy and construct the facilities they recently moved into and that's in Aberdeen, where the land is cheaper than a half time pie!!

 

 

£50 million? I just checked and it ended up as £13m, with them having budgeted £10m. Are you not thinking of the overall projected cost for a combined new stadium and training ground complex?

[A_A wehatethehibs]

The type of decision best left to the bean counters. Whatever is the best financial option we will go with. At the end of the day the main facilities required are pitches, a gym, medical facilities and a canteen. Obviously you want a place that looks the part and is in a nice setting, but the reality is it’s all about costs. 

[Goodfella]

3 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

 

£50 million? I just checked and it ended up as £13m, with them having budgeted £10m. Are you not thinking of the overall projected cost for a combined new stadium and training ground complex?

 

You are correct, initial phase of it was to cost 10mill for the training ground. As you stated it's risen to 13million. 50million is for the whole Kingsford plan, which includes a stadium. That stadium looks further away than ever before now with the pandemic. 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Goodfella said:

 

You are correct, initial phase of it was to cost 10mill for the training ground. As you stated it's risen to 13million. 50million is for the whole Kingsford plan, which includes a stadium. That stadium looks further away than ever before now with the pandemic. 

They have kicked it into touch haven't they? Even before the pandemic 

[Goodfella]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

They have kicked it into touch haven't they? Even before the pandemic 

 

Think they're still scrambling for investment from Cormack's wealthy pals but it's looking unlikely, they have mothballed it indefinitely. They've decreased the attendance of Pittodrie 'officially' too, down to 15,500, due to poor support.

 

I don't see where the money will come from for Kingsford, Cormack must even be having second thoughts about it all due to the pandemic absolutely gutting his finances. 

[Debut 4]

17 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

We have our own dedicated facilities at the Oriam as far as I can tell and obviously use of the pitches as well. Not sure what else we need - does the ownership really matter as long as we have a good relationship with the Oriam?

Indeed. The pandemic may have thrown a spanner in the works but who’s to say Hearts wont be able to negotiate the lease down at the end of this term? 
 

Good relations and all that?  Who else would step in to give HW the dough if Hearts moved away?  The environment changes over the years , we may be holding all the aces come the time. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Debut 4

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Budge backed Sheep application stating that would be our preferred option,  to have one place of operation 

[Humblerogue]

Could we not just train at Tynecastle and fit out the second floor of the new stand with a gym? 

[Neil Dongcaster]

I would imagine there are plenty of gyms for sale right now with the appropriate space. A refit rather than purpose built would save us an absolute fortune. We could also have public spaces to earn income.