A Literal Six Pointer

[Cade]

Legally they have no leg to stand on.

 

They failed to follow both the government's and the SPFL's rules on Covid.

They failed to properly control the actions of their staff.

This is all their own fault.

 

Feck 'em.

 

[Mikey1874]

11 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Motherwell getting 6 points just does not seem right

 

Penalise clubs if guilty of course but for a club to benefit for doing nothing and going above clubs or getting closer to other clubs who have just by pure luck not been playing the 2 sides in question is just wrong

 

The solution ?...that is open to question

 

Motherwell were ready to play both games.

 

Because of simple rules that Motherwell were keeping to, their opponents didn't turn up to play the games. I do see the point. But it's the obvious outcome. 

 

And we're nearer the league being completed. 

[allystrachan]

Maybe it should be a 3 point deduction & they have to still play the game. That way Motherwell would still have to earn the points but the team is still punished. 
 

Not that I care, I hope Motherwell pip hibs to 4th by 1 point. Unless hibs were to just crumble into the bottom 6 of course. 

[John Findlay]

21 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

They probably already have. I find it hard to believe that nobody, coaches or players, knew that one of their players had gone to Spain and back. He must have told one of his mates, at the very least, if only to show off about the girl he was going to have a romantic time with.

He went to negotiate his new deal with his new club. It was not mere coincidence that Celtic were able to offload him soon after. They(Celtic) knew fine well what he was upto, because they gave their blessing.

[Turkishcap]

Pleseant few mins reading.

[Pasquale for King]

28 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Poetic justice if it is the 3 goal deduction that relegates them.   Especially after this summer 

I wouldn’t know whether to laugh or cry 😆

[upgotheheads]

14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I wouldn’t know whether to laugh or cry 😆

 

Wait for the demands for a 14 team top league because to do otherwise would destroy the ideas of sporting integrity and solidarity.

 

‘Oh what a tangled web we weave/When first we practice to deceive’ means that when you lie or act dishonestly you are initiating problems and a domino structure of complications which eventually run out of control. The quote is from Scott’s epic poem, Marmion: A Tale of Flodden Field. It’s an historical romance in verse, published in 1808.

[JTJ]

25 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

He went to negotiate his new deal with his new club. It was not mere coincidence that Celtic were able to offload him soon after. They(Celtic) knew fine well what he was upto, because they gave their blessing.

Indeed. With Euro football fixtures Celtic would have held Bolingoli's passport. That is standard after some clowns lost theirs or turned up for the plane without it in the dim and distant past. To go abroad he would have had to ask the club for it back.

 

Journalists know this but - "surprisingly" - none have mentioned it...

[upgotheheads]

FAO Neil Doncaster.

 

Mr. Doncaster ,

 

Do you expect there to be a demand for a change  to the league structure at  the end of this season to protect league solidarity and sporting integrity, due to the disruptive effect of Covid 19? 

 

regards.

 

 

 

 

Just sent his to the SPFL, the address is [email protected]

Edited December 3, 2020 by upgotheheads

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Wait for the demands for a 14 team top league because to do otherwise would destroy the ideas of sporting integrity and solidarity.

 

‘Oh what a tangled web we weave/When first we practice to deceive’ means that when you lie or act dishonestly you are initiating problems and a domino structure of complications which eventually run out of control. The quote is from Scott’s epic poem, Marmion: A Tale of Flodden Field. It’s an historical romance in verse, published in 1808.

We would back reconstruction 

I think I may have read it at uni when I studied Scottish history, it’s perfectly describes the situation. Thanks for posting that, nice to see a bit of culture on here especially when we’re discussing such uncouth individuals. 
 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[5-1Jambo]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

FAO Neil Doncaster.

 

Mr. Doncaster ,

 

Do you expect there to be a demand for a change  to the league structure at  the end of this season to protect league solidarity and sporting integrity, due to the disruptive effect of Covid 19? 

 

regards.

 

 

 

 

Just sent his to the SPFL, the address is [email protected]

Waist of time asking Doncaster. He will be off to his new Euro job that his pal Lawwell has set up for him. He doesn't give a monkeys. 

[18Jambo_dave74]

Absolutely delighted at hearing this today.

 

St Mirren and Killie complaining that it’s not fair. Hibs complaining about getting a game against Celtic moved. They can all get so far to ****. 
 

All summer long fans of clubs such as St Mirren and Hibs ridiculed us and praised the SPFL so don’t have the ******* brass neck to complain now. Rangers offered to pay for an independent investigation in to the SPFL - any of these clubs vote in favour? Nah, didn’t think so.

 

I couldn’t care if it’s fair or what Celtic and Aberdeen got away with - I want these clubs and the SPFL to crash and burn.

 

Motherwell making up 6 points on Hibs (and playing them this weekend). Hamilton pulling level with St Mirren. St Mirren being investigated by the police. Celtic tearing themselves to pieces. 
 

Lovely. Or if you are a St Mirren fan, it’s probably a “heartbreaker”. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by 18Jambo_dave74

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Wait for the demands for a 14 team top league because to do otherwise would destroy the ideas of sporting integrity and solidarity.

 

‘Oh what a tangled web we weave/When first we practice to deceive’ means that when you lie or act dishonestly you are initiating problems and a domino structure of complications which eventually run out of control. The quote is from Scott’s epic poem, Marmion: A Tale of Flodden Field. It’s an historical romance in verse, published in 1808.

Kilmarnock, in particular, was accused of of failing to disclose information requested.

 

That the club did not produce the document (71) was of concern to us because it was amongst a range of documents which the company called upon the club to produce in advance of our hearings and which was not produced by the club, despite two of their senior representatives (club doctor and a club executive) confirming in statements to the tribunal that they produced all documents that they considered to be relevant, for example XXXXX states in her statement that ‘we have not withheld any materials’ and XXXXX that he had ‘provided copies of all the emails falling within the description of the materials requested’. The document clearly was within the parameters called for by the company, and under Rule B1 all clubs have a responsibility and duty to act in utmost good faith. This was a highly relevant document albeit that we remain with a copy that appears simply to be a draft at this time.

 

Document 71 was a report by the Incident Management Team (responding to the Covid outbreak)

 

....... it states “transmission has occurred between players and on the balance of probabilities is this is most
likely to have occurred in changing rooms, during pre-match meals or during coach journeys”.

[Footballfirst]

Kilmarnock statement

 

https://kilmarnockfc.co.uk/news/club-reaction-to-spfl-tribunal-sanctions/

 

Following the outcome of our SPFL tribunal, we feel it is imperative to outline to our supporters why we feel so aggrieved by today’s sanctions.

The health and safety of our staff and players has always been and remains our first priority and since being allowed to return to football in June, we have done everything in our power to follow all guidelines and protocols mandated to us.

In relation to the two issues outlined by the tribunal: the club more than followed what it consider was appropriate which was the 1m Scottish Government physical distancing guidelines for hospitality venues and in regards to coach travel, the policies and procedures also aligned with what we  considered to be Scottish Government protocols. Unfortunately the  tribunal did not agree with this interpretation.

The tribunal accepted the club’s position on a number of different points in regards to stadium safety but nonetheless, as a club we are always willing to look for improvements in procedures in all areas and indeed we have worked constructively with NHS Ayrshire and Arran over the past few weeks.

Given we remain in the midst of a global pandemic with restrictions reimposed across the country, we always saw this an opportunity for the football authorities to review their handling of Covid-related issues and update their guidance in light of increased knowledge around the virus and encourage a culture of sharing best practice across football.

Instead, we feel that  Kilmarnock FC and other clubs have been subjected to sanctions-based approach by the SPFL, which has proved costly, time consuming and caused considerable stress to all involved.

As we have seen before, during and since our outbreak, football is not immune to the pandemic and while we have to accept that while the risks can be minimised, there are occasions where transmission will occur without anyone being at fault.

In the wake of our case, we believe it is imperative that official guidelines for all SPFL clubs are updated as a matter of urgency and allow the season to continue with as little disruption as possible.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

 

GIRUY

[1971fozzy]

Kilmarnock statement 🤣🤣🤣.   Aye what about us ? Where where you when we needed you ?

get it right up you. Take it and get over it. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

3 hours ago, CJGJ said:

Motherwell getting 6 points just does not seem right

 

Penalise clubs if guilty of course but for a club to benefit for doing nothing and going above clubs or getting closer to other clubs who have just by pure luck not been playing the 2 sides in question is just wrong

 

The solution ?...that is open to question

It’s not fair - but a properly run organisation would have a pre-determined guidance and rule protocol for sub matters this season

 

There are two reasons the SPFL doesn’t.

 

1. Incompetence

2. pre-determined rules may be detrimental to Celtic and Rangers 

[i8hibsh]

Covid19

 

[DETTY29]

Blah, blah, blah by Killie.

 

Don't stand, sit or whatever within 2m of the same person for 15 minutes outside of the match or training pitches.

[highlandjambo3]

13 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

FAO Neil Doncaster.

 

Mr. Doncaster ,

 

Do you expect there to be a demand for a change  to the league structure at  the end of this season to protect league solidarity and sporting integrity, due to the disruptive effect of Covid 19? 

 

regards.

 

 

 

 

Just sent his to the SPFL, the address is [email protected]

Hi reply:

 

We are looking into any and every possibility so long as it includes punishing hearts.

[Nookie Bear]

18 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Hi reply:

 

We are looking into any and every possibility so long as it includes punishing hearts.

To be fair all we want is consistency 🤷‍♂️

[DETTY29]

12 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Kilmarnock statement

 

https://kilmarnockfc.co.uk/news/club-reaction-to-spfl-tribunal-sanctions/

 

Following the outcome of our SPFL tribunal, we feel it is imperative to outline to our supporters why we feel so aggrieved by today’s sanctions.

The health and safety of our staff and players has always been and remains our first priority and since being allowed to return to football in June, we have done everything in our power to follow all guidelines and protocols mandated to us.

In relation to the two issues outlined by the tribunal: the club more than followed what it consider was appropriate which was the 1m Scottish Government physical distancing guidelines for hospitality venues and in regards to coach travel, the policies and procedures also aligned with what we  considered to be Scottish Government protocols. Unfortunately the  tribunal did not agree with this interpretation.

The tribunal accepted the club’s position on a number of different points in regards to stadium safety but nonetheless, as a club we are always willing to look for improvements in procedures in all areas and indeed we have worked constructively with NHS Ayrshire and Arran over the past few weeks.

Given we remain in the midst of a global pandemic with restrictions reimposed across the country, we always saw this an opportunity for the football authorities to review their handling of Covid-related issues and update their guidance in light of increased knowledge around the virus and encourage a culture of sharing best practice across football.

Instead, we feel that  Kilmarnock FC and other clubs have been subjected to sanctions-based approach by the SPFL, which has proved costly, time consuming and caused considerable stress to all involved.

As we have seen before, during and since our outbreak, football is not immune to the pandemic and while we have to accept that while the risks can be minimised, there are occasions where transmission will occur without anyone being at fault.

In the wake of our case, we believe it is imperative that official guidelines for all SPFL clubs are updated as a matter of urgency and allow the season to continue with as little disruption as possible.

I've only skim read the Kilmarnock outcome but it is pretty damning in that they were not following the JRG Covid rules along with a lack of (closer to none at all) responsible duty of care by club management and their Covid Officer.  

 

I'd previously looked up the JRG covid rules and they are pretty clear on full social distancing outside the match and training pitch.

 

I am not buying this press release and following SG guidance in terms of public transport and hospitality plea to their fans.  They have significantly broken the agreed football rules they signed - were forced to sign up to.

 

Another kick in the teeth in getting fans back in with football doing 'as it pleases' irrespective of what Jason Leitch may convey on OTB.

 

This however is (another) shot across the bows to football clubs.  And as this Championship isn't going to be the walk over we thought it would be, we better be following them from now on especially as it's likely our players will be monitored more than any other club in the division.  

[Footballfirst]

.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Footballfirst

[DETTY29]

15 hours ago, Cade said:

Legally they have no leg to stand on.

 

They failed to follow both the government's and the SPFL's rules on Covid.

They failed to properly control the actions of their staff.

This is all their own fault.

 

Feck 'em.

 

This is pretty damning.

 

 

BACKGROUND TO THE BREACHES Kilmarnock had an obligation to ensure that the playing staff maintained safe distances, and social distancing, between each other at all relevantly appropriate times. There was a failure by the club to provide written guidance and regular instruction to players regarding matters such as the dangers of sitting across from each other on a team bus trip or closer than two metres at a table, where a two metre gap between players would still require having been maintained. None of the players were members of the same household as each other. The owners were carrying on a business and failed in their obligations with regard to social distancing in the bus, and at the location where meals were provided for the players, and in that regard they failed under annex 11 to maintain social distancing. The club did not qualify for the one metre rule as they were not said to have applied additional measures to allow the reduction of the two metre social distancing rule to one metre. Zoom coaching did not appear to have been utilised when it could have been, as physical distancing applies to all parts of the business including when coaching is given to players outwith the field of play and coaching arenas. Buses were used for related travel to and from the particular match for an away team fixture. The club failed to consider whether or not they actually should use buses, and if so whether or not they would need more than one bus on the trip, or a larger bus, having failed to consider the government and SPFL guidance as a whole. The overarching principle was to ensure that there was created a low risk of transmission of the virus, but it is factually clear that the virus did transmit between players in the club. The club failed to ensure that transmission risk was as low as it could be. The Joint Response Group produced documents initially referable to Premiership clubs only, regarding returning to training protocol, and retuning to matches protocol, and all clubs in the SPFL accepted same. Kilmarnock did develop a Covid-19 operations policy but there is no evidence that they provided each player with a copy of same. Indeed, the club did prepare a number of Covid related documents (both before and after the date of the postponed match) but failed to ensure implementation of same as accepted in the complaint admission.

 

The club had a Covid-19 officer and a medical officer, but neither were present at the pre match meal at the Hilton, nor in the bus to and from the away fixture which were the occasions upon which the club admitted the breach . There were failings of middle football management in failing to ensure that the playing staff were complying with, and that backroom staff maintained, the correct social distancing to minimise the risk of spread of the virus. There is no evidence of the management instructing players to cease breaching Covid regulations and guidance, and in particular the Annex 11 regulations. The failure was not that of the failure of players principally, but more the failure of the football management to prevent breaches of the Covid regulations and guidance, and to ensure safe social distancing to minimise the risk of such failures to occur. These failures were on a day to day basis within the club. Through the regulatory and advisory documents, it is clear that the club was aware, or should have been aware, that it would have been imperative to retain social distancing at all times other than on the field of play. This was one of the responsibilities of the Covid-19 officer. Clubs were aware, before the outbreak at the club occurred, of the vital importance of matches not being postponed due to the pressure on the season that had already commenced, to find alternative available dates for matches to be played. Almost all fixture dates were, it appears, pre booked in advance and this was clear to the clubs before the season commenced. There was very significant pressure on potential fixture rescheduling because of the shortening of the season.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

13 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

Kilmarnock statement 🤣🤣🤣.   Aye what about us ? Where where you when we needed you ?

get it right up you. Take it and get over it. 

 

'You should learn from our mistakes, not punish us.'

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

I've only skim read the Kilmarnock outcome but it is pretty damning in that they were not following the JRG Covid rules along with a lack of (closer to none at all) responsible duty of care by club management and their Covid Officer.  

 

I'd previously looked up the JRG covid rules and they are pretty clear on full social distancing outside the match and training pitch.

 

I am not buying this press release and following SG guidance in terms of public transport and hospitality plea to their fans.  They have significantly broken the agreed football rules they signed - were forced to sign up to.

 

Another kick in the teeth in getting fans back in with football doing 'as it pleases' irrespective of what Jason Leitch may convey on OTB.

 

This however is (another) shot across the bows to football clubs.  And as this Championship isn't going to be the walk over we thought it would be, we better be following them from now on especially as it's likely our players will be monitored more than any other club in the division.  

 

The responses of St Mirren and Kilmarnock could lead to more SFA charges. 

 

Arguing with what are fairly straightforward procedures is another example of football arguing its being treated unfairly.