The Hogfather Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Anyone able to rhyme off a list of youth prospects we've brought through in the last 6 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gorgie Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 It's a myth, one that only Levein believed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hogfather Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 I'm deadly serious here though. Part of this wonderful 5 year plan was to have one of the best academies in the country and, so far, Celtic can also lay claim to the only real prospect we've brought through since Ann Budge took over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Is it much vaunted.Been trash for absolute years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Hickey the obvious one. Then Andy Irving who must seriously wondering how he is unable to get a game over Lee / Halliday. But apart from that... dire, which is an understatement. Stone and Watson are 2 promising players coming through though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restonbabe Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Callum Patterson Andrew Irving Ewan Henderson There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hogfather Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 Quote Objective No 3 Invest in our Football Academy and in our Youth Players to the extent needed to ensure a steady supply of home-grown talent for the foreseeable future. In season 2017/18, no fewer than 8 of our academy players were given their first professional contracts. In that season, we played more youngsters in our first team than any other professional Club in Europe. In season 2018/19, we continued that trend, with 9 of our academy players signing professional contracts. For the 2019/2020 season we have offered professional contracts to a further 6 of our young players. Over the last 5 years, we have invested in excess of £4million in our Youth Academy and additionally, we have invested in our very own Performance School. Strong foundations have definitely been laid, from which we hope to reap substantial future benefit. This is from her statement in August 2019. If this is a KPI the club are to be judged upon, this is pretty damning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hogfather Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Restonbabe said: Callum Patterson Andrew Irving Ewan Henderson There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? Callum Paterson was in the setup and playing for the 1st team before she rocked up. Andy Irving and Ewan Henderson can't get into the starting line up ahead of disinterested mercenaries. EDIT: David Turnbull & Allan Campbell both came from Motherwells youth ranks and were major success for them. Kieran Tierney did alright for Celtic. Josh Magennis brought in a record fee when he moved to Hibs from St Mirren. And that's off the top of my head. Edited November 28, 2020 by Nunya Business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay James Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 The players are there, we just don't give them the platform. It's our approach to youth development that is the issue, not necessarily the quality of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said: Hickey the obvious one. Then Andy Irving who must seriously wondering how he is unable to get a game over Lee / Halliday. But apart from that... dire, which is an understatement. Stone and Watson are 2 promising players coming through though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: Good to hear FF. Any other lads who you think could make the step up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: 1 minute ago, Famous 1874 said: Good to hear FF. Any other lads who you think could make the step up? The 14-17 age group is prob the best way to judge how our academy is progressing. 16/17 is a bit of a debatable point but below that will be telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Restonbabe said: Callum Patterson Andrew Irving Ewan Henderson There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? Not yet clear whether either are good enough for us so won't count them. The other consideration is how many youth players other teams are bringing through, might be perception but feels like many other teams do it better without the facilities and budget we have. Edited November 28, 2020 by AlphonseCapone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Just now, sadj said: The 14-17 age group is prob the best way to judge how our academy is progressing. 16/17 is a bit of a debatable point but below that will be telling. Yeah plus the academy basically started from scratch so could take a few more years before we hopefully reap the benefits from the investment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Just now, Famous 1874 said: Yeah plus the academy basically started from scratch so could take a few more years before we hopefully reap the benefits from the investment 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said: Good to hear FF. Any other lads who you think could make the step up? Callum Flatman would be the likeliest one, but I haven't seen any academy games this season to be able to make a judgement on how the youngsters are developing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Drifter Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 46 minutes ago, Nunya Business said: Anyone able to rhyme off a list of youth prospects we've brought through in the last 6 years? Make that 16 years. And who's the last homegrown striker we've produced? You're going back 30, 40 years probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18Jambo_dave74 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Another area of the football club that has been massively underperforming for some time. Playing Championship football and none of our youngsters are good enough to get in the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Mcilroy Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 The youths being kept out by the quality senior additions made by the Scouting team and "Football Department" 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Hans Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 22 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said: Make that 16 years. And who's the last homegrown striker we've produced? You're going back 30, 40 years probably. Our inability to bring through a striker is frightening. Clum was probably the last okay(ish) one in the last 20 years. He went downhill pretty rapidly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 More fruit in the kitchen of a benefit scrounger jobless junkies kitchen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts007 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 57 minutes ago, Restonbabe said: Callum Patterson Andrew Irving Ewan Henderson There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? True Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 May as well lose it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 42 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: Callum Flatman would be the likeliest one, but I haven't seen any academy games this season to be able to make a judgement on how the youngsters are developing. Fair point. Also heard good things about Flatman 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbazza Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 The Academy went downhill when box soccer was introduced in 2016 and the Technical Coach decided to leave the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 The players are there, Robbie chooses not to use them. We loan players out to this level, but when they come back to us we refuse to play them against teams at this level! Baffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 22 minutes ago, Bigbazza said: The Academy went downhill when box soccer was introduced in 2016 and the Technical Coach decided to leave the club Who was that ? 8 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said: The players are there, Robbie chooses not to use them. We loan players out to this level, but when they come back to us we refuse to play them against teams at this level! Baffling. Agree 100%. CL was the same ...... as evidenced by the ridiculous number of players he signed in 5 windows, despite trying and then ignoring several youths (e.g. Cochrane, McDonald, Henderson, Moore). Baffling and frustrating for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 34 minutes ago, Lone Striker said: Who was that ? Agree 100%. CL was the same ...... as evidenced by the ridiculous number of players he signed in 5 windows, despite trying and then ignoring several youths (e.g. Cochrane, McDonald, Henderson, Moore). Baffling and frustrating for everyone. He didn't play them today so he is unlikely to play them this season, as does not trust them the numbnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Restonbabe said: Callum Patterson Andrew Irving Ewan Henderson There isn't a lot to be honest. How many Scottish youth prospects have came through any acedemy that you find decent in the past decade? Callum Paterson played with Tynecastle BC for most of his juvenile career (8 - 16) and not developed through the Academy. If I remember correctly Tynecastle BC were entitled to a development fee when he went to Cardiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivialinnell Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 hours ago, sadj said: The 14-17 age group is prob the best way to judge how our academy is progressing. 16/17 is a bit of a debatable point but below that will be telling. Hearts ruin their young lads mentally, don't offer them any guidance. A young lad Dylin released himself due to problems and coaches already have there favourites the clubs a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Lone Striker said: Who was that ? Roy Craig. He was well liked by the youngsters. However, he wasn't the only coach who left after the academy was restructured by CL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) What are the scouts seeing at boys club football, are there even scouts doing the rounds? Have the scouts got a decent relationship with any BC? Edited November 28, 2020 by Hesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, gashauskis9 said: The players are there, Robbie chooses not to use them. We loan players out to this level, but when they come back to us we refuse to play them against teams at this level! Baffling. Not any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 It’s not produced much but the level of coaching the youngsters hasn’t helped them. We now have a manager that won’t play them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 hours ago, gashauskis9 said: The players are there, Robbie chooses not to use them. We loan players out to this level, but when they come back to us we refuse to play them against teams at this level! Baffling. Indeed. Irving/Henderson/Moore/Cochrane/Macdonald/Morrison are no worse than some of the experienced dross that have played ahead of them this season. Frear/Roberts/Walker have been awful and even guys like Lee/Halliday/Naismith haven’t done much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Shut it down. It's cost millions and the chances of it ever succeeding are minute - see what Brentford did with their academy and how they develop their youngsters now. Frankly the millions spent (someone said £4 million so far ?) don't justify the meagre rewards to date ie a few kids making a few appearances and then quietly disappearing into the basement of Scottish football. Almost as if someone shamelessly indulged in a bit of self promotion to justify the academy project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 The few players that do come through get benched for the likes of Roberts or Frear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Does this look like the CV of someone with a good record in producing Hearts level footballers? After a £4m plus spend he's produced next to nothing. https://uk.linkedin.com/in/roger-arnott-652a2a5b A quick look suggests that Motherwell (who have produced far more than our lot) since 2013 have had Scott Leitch then Steven Hammell in the equivalent position. Two ex players with long playing records. There was so much hope that Levein had the idea of something revolutionary in youth development. Like everything else from him it was just a mess. Ann Budge even told us how disorganised Levein was - he didn't even know what the reporting lines were. It desperately needs someone to look at it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 This is place is back to its best then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 It is pretty telling with our youth setup by looking at the Scotland Under-21 setup. Several years ago we had 4 or 5 players in there. Now we just have Andy Irving and he is not always making the squad. Something has gone badly wrong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 18 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said: Not yet clear whether either are good enough for us so won't count them. The other consideration is how many youth players other teams are bringing through, might be perception but feels like many other teams do it better without the facilities and budget we have. Cannot agree with this. It is easier for a kid to get into the Hamilton team than Hearts, and it is harder for a kid to make the breakthrough at Celtic than at Hearts (As Hickey clearly realised) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Cannot agree with this. It is easier for a kid to get into the Hamilton team than Hearts, and it is harder for a kid to make the breakthrough at Celtic than at Hearts (As Hickey clearly realised) Perhaps that is true in the SPL. We're in the Championship however and our best youths can't even get a kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Just now, Cruyff said: Perhaps that is true in the SPL. We're in the Championship however and our best youths can't even get a kick. Yes but I suspect the plan was to get to the top of the table ASAP in case the season gets called early, and Robbie will play experienced players to achieve this. Youth will be bled in once we are winning and the squad's confidence is up. The Dunfermline loss was a problem but we still beat Alloa in the league... I think Robbie is doing what Robbie does and giving league priority over cups. This seemed reversed under other managers since Robbie was last here and look where it got us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spellczech said: Yes but I suspect the plan was to get to the top of the table ASAP in case the season gets called early, and Robbie will play experienced players to achieve this. Youth will be bled in once we are winning and the squad's confidence is up. The Dunfermline loss was a problem but we still beat Alloa in the league... I think Robbie is doing what Robbie does and giving league priority over cups. This seemed reversed under other managers since Robbie was last here and look where it got us... Some of our Academy players have contributed more than the likes of Frear and Roberts. Lewis Moore for 2 assists in 9 appearances last season. Euan Henderson had 1 goal and 2 assists in 14 appearances and Andy Irving is one of the most technically gifted players in the squad scoring a number of goals as well as laying on quite a few. These guys have already been bled, infact they have proven themselves as capable at a higher level yet can't get a kick ahead of shite like Frear and Roberts in the Championship. Something quite clearly wrong there. Robbie had his best XI on the park yesterday and has now went 2hrs and 45 minutes without even bothering the Alloa keeper. So can't be a case of priorities. It looks more like a case of shite signings and shan tactics on his part. Edited November 29, 2020 by Cruyff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Cruyff said: Some of our Academy players have contributed more than the likes of Frear and Roberts. Lewis Moore for 2 assists in 9 appearances last season. Euan Henderson had 1 goal and 2 assists in 14 appearances and Andy Irving is one of the most technically gifted players in the squad scoring a number of goals as well as laying on quite a few. These guys have already been bled, infact they have proven themselves as capable at a higher level yet can't get a kick ahead of shite like Frear and Roberts in the Championship. Something quite clearly wrong there. Robbie had his best XI on the park yesterday and has now went 2hrs and 45 minutes without even bothering the Alloa keeper. So can't be a case of priorities. It looks more like a case of shite signings and shan tactics on his part. Well they should really be getting a chance after the exploits of the front 6 yesterday. In episode 2 of the documentary, Stendal made an interesting observation about quickness of feet versus quickness of thought re Henderson. These are the things we don't see usually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Spellczech said: Well they should really be getting a chance after the exploits of the front 6 yesterday. In episode 2 of the documentary, Stendal made an interesting observation about quickness of feet versus quickness of thought re Henderson. These are the things we don't see usually... Most definitely. I don't see why not. I can't understand why he took Wighton out of the centre forward position either when he had been scoring goals. Stendel is probably a good coach, especially with youth players. At least he tried to fulfil part of his duties by playing young players and trying to get them to play with expression and freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1874 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) Popescu signed... Hamilton out on loan? Frear and Roberts signed...Henderson on bench and Moore disappeared? Irving not getting a game when Lee and Halliday have been poor Give the lads a chance to either succeed or fail. For example, Porteous will be at Edinburgh City in a few years but least he was given the chance Edited November 29, 2020 by R1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 16 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said: Not yet clear whether either are good enough for us so won't count them. The other consideration is how many youth players other teams are bringing through, might be perception but feels like many other teams do it better without the facilities and budget we have. Well, Hamilton see to do ok with their young players given the gulf in finances. Motherwell have done ok with theirs also. Aberdeen are starting to see a few get games regularly. The last time we were in the Championship, we had about half a team-full and they were given chances. Holt, Paterson, Walker, Nicholson, King, McHattie, Mackay, McGhee, Smith, Hamilton and others all got games and although the majority were never going to cut it at top level, they did enough to contribute to our promotion. Some of them were here even before Budge and Levein arrived so where has it gone wrong?Here we are four/five years on and the ones that have had a chance have drifted out of sight. Cochrane, MacDonald, Moore, even the departed Keena and others are nowhere to be seen. We are now pinning our hopes on the likes of McGill and Henderson and one or two more. It's not great. Looking back years ago we picked boys from boys clubs. Robertson, Bowman, MacKay, McLaren etc etc. The academy seems to be an awful lot of money for little to nothing in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Have players there, that could be good players, like Irving, Henderson, but Robbie would rather play Frear, Roberts, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingAboutObua Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 15 hours ago, Coco said: Does this look like the CV of someone with a good record in producing Hearts level footballers? After a £4m plus spend he's produced next to nothing. https://uk.linkedin.com/in/roger-arnott-652a2a5b A quick look suggests that Motherwell (who have produced far more than our lot) since 2013 have had Scott Leitch then Steven Hammell in the equivalent position. Two ex players with long playing records. There was so much hope that Levein had the idea of something revolutionary in youth development. Like everything else from him it was just a mess. Ann Budge even told us how disorganised Levein was - he didn't even know what the reporting lines were. It desperately needs someone to look at it all. ****ing hell at that CV. Can anyone name a recent Dunfermline youth player ripping it up anywhere? I'm embarrassed to admit I assumed we had someone with an exemplary CV running the show. ****ing hell, who is putting forward these names and who is offering them jobs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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