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Did Budge roll the dice too soon ?


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2 hours ago, The Treasurer said:Did Stendel not have a clause in his contract about jumping ship if we were demoted 

It was a clause both he and us wanted. 

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5 hours ago, Jambos_1874 said:

Standard tedious thread after a loss. Yes we underperformed and should be beating Dunfermline, but we have won every other game so far this season, including against Hibs. No need for this kind of kneejerk reaction.

Okay ,but there was so much about Friday's performance which should  be of concerned.  Same again and we'll be caught out.

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8 hours ago, johnking123 said:

We failed to address the main main problems. No pace and no energy in that midfield. Just to slow and ponderous 

 

We were never going to be able to sign a whole new squad in one window during a pandemic when we didn't know which league we were going to be in.

 

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Cruickshank for Scotland
1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

Can't wait to get back into the stadium to hurl abuse at all our players and staff. 

 

Can't wait.


You will be the only one then! 😉

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1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

We were never going to be able to sign a whole new squad in one window during a pandemic when we didn't know which league we were going to be in.

 

Pretty much this.  What we have though is a squad who need to show that fridays debacle was a one off.  Dunfermline look decent which is a worry. Wether they have it in them to last remains to be seen.

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fancy a brew
15 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

The guy who persisted with Pereira, one of the worst keepers in our history?

That Stendel?

He had his chance, we dropped from 11th to 12th on his watch.

Seems like a nice guy, but he can have no complaints.

 

Just to pedantically correct my own post.

We were actually 10th when Stendel arrived, joint bottom on points but with a better goal difference than St Johnstone and Hamilton, we had played 1 game less than Hamilton but 1 more than St Johnstone.

When Levein was sacked we were 11th,  joint bottom on points, but with a better goal difference than St Johnstone with the same number of games played.

 

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18 hours ago, pointon said:

It would appear the squad is the problem 

It clearly is, along with lengthy contracts. Pretty sure if he had been able to do it at no cost Robbie would have released Doyle, Bobby, Damour, Lee, Berra, and a few others which would have freed up a significant chunk of payroll to bring in three or four players of his own choosing. 

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18 hours ago, pointon said:

It would appear the squad is the problem 

It clearly is, along with lengthy contracts. Pretty sure if he had been able to do it at no cost Robbie would have released Doyle, Bobby, Damour, Lee, Berra, and a few others which would have freed up a significant chunk of payroll to bring in three or four players of his own choosing. 

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18 hours ago, pointon said:

It would appear the squad is the problem 

It clearly is, along with lengthy contracts. Pretty sure if he had been able to do it at no cost Robbie would have released Doyle, Bobby, Damour, Lee, Berra, and a few others which would have freed up a significant chunk of payroll to bring in three or four players of his own choosing. 

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AlphonseCapone
17 hours ago, ShedBoy said:

Yes, in my opinion she panicked and went for ‘safe’.  I honestly believe Hearts under Stendel with his own team and a pre season (of sorts) behind him, would’ve been a different animal. For me it’s another Burley moment. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

One of the daftest things posted on here. 

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Robbie Neilsons

First defeat and people are

debating if he's the right appointment which is ridiculous 

Four weeks today we will be 

Looking forward to a cup final 

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Ann likes to play it safe. 

 Robbie coming back makes you wonder why he left in the first place! and I'm not buying into the fans drove him out nonsense.

Problem is, Robbie does not get a fresh start as in the eyes of some he is tainted. If Stendel was not going to be the answer why didn't she take a fresh new approach to the team? After all it wasn't like we didn't have time on our hands to make the most important appointment at the club.

IMO it was not an ambitious appointment, just someone who is seen as a safe pair of hands. 

And FWIW.....This is not knee jerk to Friday night. The early warning signs are already there highlighting the same old style of football that has been the malaise of this club for years. It reeks of the Levein system.

Edited by Hashimoto
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Problem was Stendel had inherited a squad full of players in a comfort zone. The signing of Whelan for example, on paper, should've been the marquee signing with all that experience at a higher level but he gave the impression he was only here to pick up a wage. Stendel sussed him out very quickly as he did Mulraney and Berra. It was a start. Mulraney showed him no respect as his boss and Berra couldn't get to the press quickly enough with his petted lip. Stendel brought Boyce in ahead of Aberdeen wanting him and he looked like he was a good signing playing the Stendel way, getting forward quickly in an attacking system and now he has to change his style to suit the Levein/Neilson style. It wasn't Berra or Stendel's fault that that he ended up at Dundee, the system Stendel wanted didn't suit Berra''s game. That's life, get on with it instead of chirping in the press. He then brought in Sibbick. He looked a real prospect and it's a shame he's not here now. Maybe if he was we wouldn't have signed the likes of Halliday. The main problems for me was that he persisted with Pereira. I still think there was something strange going on there. It was clear for all to see he was not good enough and certainly lacked confidence. Stendel's biggest problem for me was that he didn't sort out the central defensive areas of the team. I'd rather he'd brought in two defenders than wasting time with Avdijaj and Langer. Both were never going to be good enough so It was a wasted opportunity. The young players, along with Clare and even Bozanic bought into what Stendel wanted from his team. Whingers were starting to be weeded out. There's only so much he could do in such a short transfer window and had he still been here, i believe the defence would've been a top priority. I doubt Popescu would've been anywhere near Hearts either. 

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3 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

Ann likes to play it safe. 

 Robbie coming back makes you wonder why he left in the first place! and I'm not buying into the fans drove him out nonsense.

Problem is, Robbie does not get a fresh start as in the eyes of some he is tainted. If Stendel was not going to be the answer why didn't she take a fresh new approach to the team? After all it wasn't like we didn't have time on our hands to make the most important appointment at the club.

IMO it was not an ambitious appointment, just someone who is seen as a safe pair of hands. 

 

I've said all along that it was complete nonsense that the fans drove him out. Even if that was the case, what would that say about his character? Surely he would've wanted to stay and prove them wrong and get it right up them!? If he had left because of that, that would make him appear weak. My opinion is that i think he wanted away from the shackles he was working under. I also think that maybe he felt he couldn't take Hearts any further and wanted to leave on (a bit of) a high. And even if i am wrong about that, why jump ship at the first opportunity and not hang about a bit longer until a better club than MK Dons came along? Think there was more to it than that. I also found it strange that one minute he's preparing Dundee Utd for a belt at the Premiership, the next thing he's rolled up to Tynecastle with a scarf above his head. Maybe Ann wanted him back in after Levein was sacked but couldn't because of his commitment to Dundee Utd. Strange how he  suddenly comes back after he knows Levein's out the picture. 

Anyway, he's here now and he has to get us out of the Championship. Whether he's the right appointment or not is for the future, not for now.

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3 minutes ago, jambonian said:

Problem was Stendel had inherited a squad full of players in a comfort zone. The signing of Whelan for example, on paper, should've been the marquee signing with all that experience at a higher level but he gave the impression he was only here to pick up a wage. Stendel sussed him out very quickly as he did Mulraney and Berra. It was a start. Mulraney showed him no respect as his boss and Berra couldn't get to the press quickly enough with his petted lip. Stendel brought Boyce in ahead of Aberdeen wanting him and he looked like he was a good signing playing the Stendel way, getting forward quickly in an attacking system and now he has to change his style to suit the Levein/Neilson style. It wasn't Berra or Stendel's fault that that he ended up at Dundee, the system Stendel wanted didn't suit Berra''s game. That's life, get on with it instead of chirping in the press. He then brought in Sibbick. He looked a real prospect and it's a shame he's not here now. Maybe if he was we wouldn't have signed the likes of Halliday. The main problems for me was that he persisted with Pereira. I still think there was something strange going on there. It was clear for all to see he was not good enough and certainly lacked confidence. Stendel's biggest problem for me was that he didn't sort out the central defensive areas of the team. I'd rather he'd brought in two defenders than wasting time with Avdijaj and Langer. Both were never going to be good enough so It was a wasted opportunity. The young players, along with Clare and even Bozanic bought into what Stendel wanted from his team. Whingers were starting to be weeded out. There's only so much he could do in such a short transfer window and had he still been here, i believe the defence would've been a top priority. I doubt Popescu would've been anywhere near Hearts either. 

I really can’t see any improvement in performance from this current squad of players under Neilson. The only reason for improved results is their mediocre performances are against inferior opposition so they are getting away with it. That tells you that, regardless of who the manager is, the vast majority of this squad are not good enough and/or simply don’t give a shit.

 

Personally I’d have preferred to have kept Stendel. While he had a release clause in his contract it appears he was never asked whether he wanted to continue in the job, albeit I believe he subsequently said he would have. I also believe he didn’t even know he was no longer employed by Hearts until he read in the media that Neilson had been appointed.  Very poor from Hearts on that one.

 

Neilson’s re-appointment would appear to have been Levein’s last hurrah, given it was him that informed Ann Budge that he had spoken to Neilson and Neilson had told him he would like to come back to Hearts.

 

Ultimately I have not seen any improvement in performances despite Neilson having made more changes to the squad than Stendel did, and despite playing against inferior opposition. That doesn’t seem like a step forward to me.

 

 

 

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Smith's right boot
59 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

It clearly is, along with lengthy contracts. Pretty sure if he had been able to do it at no cost Robbie would have released Doyle, Bobby, Damour, Lee, Berra, and a few others which would have freed up a significant chunk of payroll to bring in three or four players of his own choosing. 

 

 

Yip, and being relegated and hamstrung by covid will have severely limited his options in the transfer market. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

We should’ve gave Cathro more time 

Ah....Cathro. The real start of the downfall even if a few warning signs were already creeping in. Had Levein brought in a proper manager at the time of Neilson's departure instead of a project i doubt we would've fallen so hard and quickly. Poor judgement, poor signings, poor scouting and stubbornness all contributing to where we eventually ended up. Stendel in the end was on a hiding to nothing. One transfer window was never going to turn it around long-term. But we move on, hope we can turn the corner and get Hearts back to where we should be.

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7 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

We should’ve gave Cathro more time 

Cathro clearly has something. However, the 30 year old (as he was then) Ian Cathro that Hearts appointed clearly didn’t have the man management skills required, and he may well never have.

 

A definite mistake by Levein and Budge in the end but Cathro and Stendel can’t be compared in terms of their experience and proven ability.

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The best thing about this is the amount of posters who would never ever blame Levein then Stendel then wait until they’re gone and then rip the utter shit out them like that makes them a better fan :lol: 

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The problem for the last few years is that to many football decisions are being made by one individual who knows nothing about football requirements and management. Whenever the next manager is appointed it should be a decision between the CEO and the Sporting Director, should we ever get one. As the documentary on TV has shown, Ann has been involved in far to much, although that should no longer be the case with the CEO in place.

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A_A wehatethehibs
36 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Cathro clearly has something. However, the 30 year old (as he was then) Ian Cathro that Hearts appointed clearly didn’t have the man management skills required, and he may well never have.

 

A definite mistake by Levein and Budge in the end but Cathro and Stendel can’t be compared in terms of their experience and proven ability.


They can be compared in terms of their Hearts results though. Both shite. 
 

Face it Stendel was the fans #1 choice for manager, and all that proved is that fans are clueless in terms of managerial Appointments.
 

There’s a definite subsection of the fans still suffering from the mini-Klopp delusion. The mini-Flopp had us rooted to the bottom of the table from minute 1, when he started with 5 straight defeats and continued that form after the winter break. 

 

Would he have got us back promoted? Who knows, and who cares. Move on. 

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13 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

Can't wait to get back into the stadium to hurl abuse at all our players and staff. 

 

Can't wait.

I'll be raging if you get in before me. I'll take it out on the players,though

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1 hour ago, Ethan Hunt said:

I really can’t see any improvement in performance from this current squad of players under Neilson. The only reason for improved results is their mediocre performances are against inferior opposition so they are getting away with it. That tells you that, regardless of who the manager is, the vast majority of this squad are not good enough and/or simply don’t give a shit.

 

Personally I’d have preferred to have kept Stendel. While he had a release clause in his contract it appears he was never asked whether he wanted to continue in the job, albeit I believe he subsequently said he would have. I also believe he didn’t even know he was no longer employed by Hearts until he read in the media that Neilson had been appointed.  Very poor from Hearts on that one.

 

Neilson’s re-appointment would appear to have been Levein’s last hurrah, given it was him that informed Ann Budge that he had spoken to Neilson and Neilson had told him he would like to come back to Hearts.

 

Ultimately I have not seen any improvement in performances despite Neilson having made more changes to the squad than Stendel did, and despite playing against inferior opposition. That doesn’t seem like a step forward to me.

 

 

 

Quality players are not ten-a-penny for anyone these days unless you are willing to rely on 30m of board loans

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Smith's right boot
36 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:


They can be compared in terms of their Hearts results though. Both shite. 
 

Face it Stendel was the fans #1 choice for manager, and all that proved is that fans are clueless in terms of managerial Appointments.
 

There’s a definite subsection of the fans still suffering from the mini-Klopp delusion. The mini-Flopp had us rooted to the bottom of the table from minute 1, when he started with 5 straight defeats and continued that form after the winter break. 

 

Would he have got us back promoted? Who knows, and who cares. Move on. 

 

 

Another good post. 

 

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1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:


They can be compared in terms of their Hearts results though. Both shite. 
 

Face it Stendel was the fans #1 choice for manager, and all that proved is that fans are clueless in terms of managerial Appointments.
 

There’s a definite subsection of the fans still suffering from the mini-Klopp delusion. The mini-Flopp had us rooted to the bottom of the table from minute 1, when he started with 5 straight defeats and continued that form after the winter break. 

 

Would he have got us back promoted? Who knows, and who cares. Move on. 

It’s an argument that could go on for eternity, I have my thoughts on the matter, others have theirs. In terms of moving on, I’m not sure we have really. We are back having a manager who divides the fans and our performances are still as dire to watch as they were the last time he was here.

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1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

Quality players are not ten-a-penny for anyone these days unless you are willing to rely on 30m of board loans

Neilson is in a far better situation than Stendel was. He’s had longer to evaluate and work with the players. He’s made more changes to the squad than Stendel did. He’s in an inferior league, playing mostly part time teams. I don’t think anyone can argue that we don’t have the most quality in this league, yet we’re are still playing dire football and struggling to put teams away. Somethings wrong somewhere.

 

Do you think Neilson would have done any better than Stendel if he had taken over at that time? With the moral and confidence of the team rock bottom? I’m not seeing anything in terms of performance or tactics that would suggest he would have done.

 

The majority of players should have a point to prove after last season. They admitted they completely under performed. They also stated that they felt hurt and angry about the way the league had ended and how matters unfolded. I can’t say I see any of them looking to burst a gut to make amends.

 

If they were performing as they are in front of a still hurting Hearts support I think all of them would be getter a much harder time.

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Saughton Jambo
3 hours ago, jambonian said:

Problem was Stendel had inherited a squad full of players in a comfort zone. The signing of Whelan for example, on paper, should've been the marquee signing with all that experience at a higher level but he gave the impression he was only here to pick up a wage. Stendel sussed him out very quickly as he did Mulraney and Berra. It was a start. Mulraney showed him no respect as his boss and Berra couldn't get to the press quickly enough with his petted lip. Stendel brought Boyce in ahead of Aberdeen wanting him and he looked like he was a good signing playing the Stendel way, getting forward quickly in an attacking system and now he has to change his style to suit the Levein/Neilson style. It wasn't Berra or Stendel's fault that that he ended up at Dundee, the system Stendel wanted didn't suit Berra''s game. That's life, get on with it instead of chirping in the press. He then brought in Sibbick. He looked a real prospect and it's a shame he's not here now. Maybe if he was we wouldn't have signed the likes of Halliday. The main problems for me was that he persisted with Pereira. I still think there was something strange going on there. It was clear for all to see he was not good enough and certainly lacked confidence. Stendel's biggest problem for me was that he didn't sort out the central defensive areas of the team. I'd rather he'd brought in two defenders than wasting time with Avdijaj and Langer. Both were never going to be good enough so It was a wasted opportunity. The young players, along with Clare and even Bozanic bought into what Stendel wanted from his team. Whingers were starting to be weeded out. There's only so much he could do in such a short transfer window and had he still been here, i believe the defence would've been a top priority. I doubt Popescu would've been anywhere near Hearts either. 

Very good post mate 

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Saughton Jambo
3 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

I really can’t see any improvement in performance from this current squad of players under Neilson. The only reason for improved results is their mediocre performances are against inferior opposition so they are getting away with it. That tells you that, regardless of who the manager is, the vast majority of this squad are not good enough and/or simply don’t give a shit.

 

Personally I’d have preferred to have kept Stendel. While he had a release clause in his contract it appears he was never asked whether he wanted to continue in the job, albeit I believe he subsequently said he would have. I also believe he didn’t even know he was no longer employed by Hearts until he read in the media that Neilson had been appointed.  Very poor from Hearts on that one.

 

Neilson’s re-appointment would appear to have been Levein’s last hurrah, given it was him that informed Ann Budge that he had spoken to Neilson and Neilson had told him he would like to come back to Hearts.

 

Ultimately I have not seen any improvement in performances despite Neilson having made more changes to the squad than Stendel did, and despite playing against inferior opposition. That doesn’t seem like a step forward to me.

 

 

 

As I understand it, he said he’d continue in the championship because we weren’t relegated but demoted as such. He was in dialogue with Ann about this.  AB offered him 50% of his current salary and he refused. It was only after this refusal that she went for Robbie 

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1 minute ago, j1964m said:

The problems all started when they appointed Willie Ormand 

Ormond. We had problems for at least 10 years before that though. 😎

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3 hours ago, jambonian said:

Problem was Stendel had inherited a squad full of players in a comfort zone. The signing of Whelan for example, on paper, should've been the marquee signing with all that experience at a higher level but he gave the impression he was only here to pick up a wage. Stendel sussed him out very quickly as he did Mulraney and Berra. It was a start. Mulraney showed him no respect as his boss and Berra couldn't get to the press quickly enough with his petted lip. Stendel brought Boyce in ahead of Aberdeen wanting him and he looked like he was a good signing playing the Stendel way, getting forward quickly in an attacking system and now he has to change his style to suit the Levein/Neilson style. It wasn't Berra or Stendel's fault that that he ended up at Dundee, the system Stendel wanted didn't suit Berra''s game. That's life, get on with it instead of chirping in the press. He then brought in Sibbick. He looked a real prospect and it's a shame he's not here now. Maybe if he was we wouldn't have signed the likes of Halliday. The main problems for me was that he persisted with Pereira. I still think there was something strange going on there. It was clear for all to see he was not good enough and certainly lacked confidence. Stendel's biggest problem for me was that he didn't sort out the central defensive areas of the team. I'd rather he'd brought in two defenders than wasting time with Avdijaj and Langer. Both were never going to be good enough so It was a wasted opportunity. The young players, along with Clare and even Bozanic bought into what Stendel wanted from his team. Whingers were starting to be weeded out. There's only so much he could do in such a short transfer window and had he still been here, i believe the defence would've been a top priority. I doubt Popescu would've been anywhere near Hearts either. 

 

Excellent post!

The real conundrum for me is Pereira!..Here's a guy who ranks amongst the worst EVER, yet lands on his feet at a good club down South. Jeezo his agent could sell sand to the Arab's!

I think we have all reached a stage where we want to see a different style of play, a completely different mindset from our head coach. Is it too much to ask for a more adventurous team? The least we can ask for is a bit entertainment.
One thing we do not want again is this turgid, non urgent stuff that we have gotten used to under Levein and Neilson.

Neilson quite clearly has his vision for how the game should be played and I doubt that ethos will change anytime soon. His argument might be "Get back to the top league by any means possible" therefore we might just have to accept that things are not going to change anytime soon.

 

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Francis Albert
21 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

Did Stendel not have a clause in his contract about jumping ship if we were demoted 

Clause surely would have referred to relegation not demotion. And some insist we weren't relegated!

 

OK it might have referred to not playing in the top flight or Premiership or whatever. 

 

Anyway we will never know what might have been -  it would have been interesting to find out. Some argue that a pressing game won't work in Scotland. I thought Dunfermline did a fair imitation of one on Friday with some success.

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I think stendel misjudged the standard of Scottish football considering the players he signed who have already exited the club. Not convinced he was behind Boyce signing 

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13 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said:

As I understand it, he said he’d continue in the championship because we weren’t relegated but demoted as such. He was in dialogue with Ann about this.  AB offered him 50% of his current salary and he refused. It was only after this refusal that she went for Robbie 

Have you got a link to that? I’m not saying that’s not the case but I can’t remember reading about any offer made to him and to my knowledge AB has  said very little about Stendel.

 

Looking at it slightly differently, and wondering if Stendel would have had us playing better football and turning out better performances than we are at the moment, then I have no doubt that he would have done.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

I think stendel misjudged the standard of Scottish football considering the players he signed who have already exited the club. Not convinced he was behind Boyce signing 

I think Stendel expected a far better quality of player to be at Hearts given our standing. If he misjudged anything he misjudged just how pish we were, albeit he tried his best to ship the imposters out.

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3 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

I really can’t see any improvement in performance from this current squad of players under Neilson. The only reason for improved results is their mediocre performances are against inferior opposition so they are getting away with it. That tells you that, regardless of who the manager is, the vast majority of this squad are not good enough and/or simply don’t give a shit.

 

Personally I’d have preferred to have kept Stendel. While he had a release clause in his contract it appears he was never asked whether he wanted to continue in the job, albeit I believe he subsequently said he would have. I also believe he didn’t even know he was no longer employed by Hearts until he read in the media that Neilson had been appointed.  Very poor from Hearts on that one.

 

Neilson’s re-appointment would appear to have been Levein’s last hurrah, given it was him that informed Ann Budge that he had spoken to Neilson and Neilson had told him he would like to come back to Hearts.

 

Ultimately I have not seen any improvement in performances despite Neilson having made more changes to the squad than Stendel did, and despite playing against inferior opposition. That doesn’t seem like a step forward to me.

 

 

 

I believe Neilson told Levein in November that whilst he didn’t want to come back then he probably would be interested come summer. Had made a commitment to United and wanted to see it through. There’s no doubting though that he was Budge and Leveins first choice to replace Levein last November. 

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