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Appeal a red light ticket- Advice


The Fonz

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Not an expert in this area, so hoping the good people of JKB might be able to help me out...

 

I was driving west along Angle Park Terrace before taking a right on to Ardmillan Terrace. I was past the lights in the junction before they turned red, but stuck there waiting to turn right until the oncoming traffic was clear and I was able to do so safely. As I was turning right the camera flashed twice, so I feel I will definitely be getting 3 points and a fine in the post shortly.

 

Does anyone have any knowledge or experience in appealing these? In my defence there was no way the light was red when I went past them and into the junction and the only reason that my turn would have been after the red was because I had to wait until the traffic going the other way was clear. This was near enough 5pm, so right in the busy period and there was no space to take the right turn before I did.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If I had been caught speeding or had actually run a red light I would take it on the chin, but in this instance I feel extremely hard done by.

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6 minutes ago, graygo said:

Thanks Graygo. I'd assumed it was west as I was going towards Slateford direction but I might be mistaken?

 

I'm certain one of my neighbors got flashed doing the same thing and took the fine, but I'm really against it in the circumstances. 

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4 minutes ago, The Fonz said:

Thanks Graygo. I'd assumed it was west as I was going towards Slateford direction but I might be mistaken?

 

I'm certain one of my neighbors got flashed doing the same thing and took the fine, but I'm really against it in the circumstances. 

 

Did it flash in front or behind you?

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Just now, The Fonz said:

Behind me as I turned into Ardmillan terrace. 

 

Was there a car behind you mate as these cameras only become active when the lights go red and you pass a sensor at the white line, if not then are you sure you were clear of the line? Very difficult to get out of these as there's very little to argue against due to the way they work.

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1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

Was there a car behind you mate as these cameras only become active when the lights go red and you pass a sensor at the white line, if not then are you sure you were clear of the line? Very difficult to get out of these as there's very little to argue against due to the way they work.

Definitely nothing behind me, which makes me wonder if I was perhaps not 100% over the line when it turned red. 

 

That being said, I was waiting on/in the junction for at least 3/4 cars to drive past me in the other direction so I could turn right safely. Not like I rushed through the red and took the turn. 

 

I'm keen to appeal it as I'm confident I didn't do anything wrong and it's the safest way to make the right turn, but if it's completely black and white then I might well be screwed. 

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How traffic light cameras work

Traffic light (or ‘red light’) cameras detect vehicles which pass through lights after they’ve turned red by using sensors or ground loops in the road.

When traffic lights are on red, the system becomes active and the camera is ready to photograph any car that passes over the trigger.

It’s an offence for any part of your vehicle to pass the white stop line if a traffic light has turned red.

The vast majority of red light cameras in the UK are made by Gatsometer.

These Gatso RLC 36 units also have built-in radar technology, with dual speed and red light functions, so for the sake of safety and the law, avoid the temptation to put your foot down when they start to change.

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15 hours ago, The Fonz said:

Definitely nothing behind me, which makes me wonder if I was perhaps not 100% over the line when it turned red. 

 

That being said, I was waiting on/in the junction for at least 3/4 cars to drive past me in the other direction so I could turn right safely. Not like I rushed through the red and took the turn. 

 

I'm keen to appeal it as I'm confident I didn't do anything wrong and it's the safest way to make the right turn, but if it's completely black and white then I might well be screwed. 

 

If you weren't 100% over the white line then you broke rule 176 of the highway code.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/9018572/are-you-allowed-to-turn-on-a-red-light-if-youre-already-in-the-intersection-answer-this-quiz-question-thats-baffling-drivers/

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Dennis Reynolds

Where there cars infront of you or where you waiting in the yellow box?

 

Btw, I've not been there in ages so if the road layout has changed, sorry.

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3 minutes ago, LMc said:

Where there cars infront of you or where you waiting in the yellow box?

 

Btw, I've not been there in ages so if the road layout has changed, sorry.

No, I was at the front of the queue waiting for the space to open up to turn right with nothing behind me.

 

I make that turn on a daily basis and never been caught out before, but from what GrayGo has added in the post above yours it sounds like I wasn't fully over the line when it turned red which is why I got flashed. 

 

If it's as black and white and if I'm not fully over the line then it's a violation then it looks like I don't have a chance of appealing it.

 

That being said, if you apply common sense and take into account that it's a tight junction at rush hour and you need to wait until oncoming traffic stops before making a turn then I don't feel I have done anything wrong.

 

Although I'm not confident that the authorities that deal with speeding/driving fines are governed by common sense.

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21 minutes ago, The Fonz said:

No, I was at the front of the queue waiting for the space to open up to turn right with nothing behind me.

 

I make that turn on a daily basis and never been caught out before, but from what GrayGo has added in the post above yours it sounds like I wasn't fully over the line when it turned red which is why I got flashed. 

 

If it's as black and white and if I'm not fully over the line then it's a violation then it looks like I don't have a chance of appealing it.

 

That being said, if you apply common sense and take into account that it's a tight junction at rush hour and you need to wait until oncoming traffic stops before making a turn then I don't feel I have done anything wrong.

 

Although I'm not confident that the authorities that deal with speeding/driving fines are governed by common sense.


If you were interested n front of the queue why were you so far back waiting to turn right ? You should have been well through the white line. 

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16 minutes ago, Dazo said:


If you were interested n front of the queue why were you so far back waiting to turn right ? You should have been well through the white line. 

Sounds like he didn't want to go into the box junction if he was that far back, although it's perfectly legal to use it in this situation when turning right.

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19 minutes ago, Dazo said:


If you were interested n front of the queue why were you so far back waiting to turn right ? You should have been well through the white line. 

Honestly I didn't think I was particularly far back, it's a relatively small space between being beyond the lights and not blocking off Harrison Road for oncoming traffic.

 

It's on my route home, so I must have made the same turn thousands of times before and never had an issue.

 

If I wasn't fully over the line when the lights changed then it can only be an inch or two in it as there was nothing different to any time I have made the turn previously. The light was green when I entered into the junction and it wasn't as if I was trying to sneak in behind a car in front or anything.

 

Will need to wait and see what comes in the post over the next couple weeks and take it from there. 

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3 minutes ago, The Fonz said:

Honestly I didn't think I was particularly far back, it's a relatively small space between being beyond the lights and not blocking off Harrison Road for oncoming traffic.

 

It's on my route home, so I must have made the same turn thousands of times before and never had an issue.

 

If I wasn't fully over the line when the lights changed then it can only be an inch or two in it as there was nothing different to any time I have made the turn previously. The light was green when I entered into the junction and it wasn't as if I was trying to sneak in behind a car in front or anything.

 

Will need to wait and see what comes in the post over the next couple weeks and take it from there. 


Maybe it wasn’t you, I find these cameras often flash without reason. Were you in the yellow box ? If so you would have been over the white line. 

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2 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Maybe it wasn’t you, I find these cameras often flash without reason. Were you in the yellow box ? If so you would have been over the white line. 

It's possible, but I think it was me as I was the last car in the junction after the cars going from Slateford Road on to Angle Park and before cars coming from Harrison Road and Ardmillan Terrace.

 

I'll need to wait and see the pictures, but as far as I am aware I was in the yellow box and past the white line. No different to how I have done it thousands of times before, except for the flash....

 

Fingers crossed it wasn't me or the camera flashed in error or something. If I was caught speeding or running a red then I'd hold my hands up and take the points, but this would be a sickener if it's a case of not being far enough into the junction before making a turn. 

 

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11 minutes ago, The Fonz said:

It's possible, but I think it was me as I was the last car in the junction after the cars going from Slateford Road on to Angle Park and before cars coming from Harrison Road and Ardmillan Terrace.

 

I'll need to wait and see the pictures, but as far as I am aware I was in the yellow box and past the white line. No different to how I have done it thousands of times before, except for the flash....

 

Fingers crossed it wasn't me or the camera flashed in error or something. If I was caught speeding or running a red then I'd hold my hands up and take the points, but this would be a sickener if it's a case of not being far enough into the junction before making a turn. 

 

Hope its a good outcome bud, try not to worry too much.

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31 minutes ago, The Fonz said:

It's possible, but I think it was me as I was the last car in the junction after the cars going from Slateford Road on to Angle Park and before cars coming from Harrison Road and Ardmillan Terrace.

 

I'll need to wait and see the pictures, but as far as I am aware I was in the yellow box and past the white line. No different to how I have done it thousands of times before, except for the flash....

 

Fingers crossed it wasn't me or the camera flashed in error or something. If I was caught speeding or running a red then I'd hold my hands up and take the points, but this would be a sickener if it's a case of not being far enough into the junction before making a turn. 

 

 

Looking at Google maps, if you were in the yellow box then you would be nowhere near the white line, the yellow box is painted at the angle of the road and is way past the lights.

 

 

Screenshot_20201120-115618_compress53.jpg

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1 hour ago, The Fonz said:

It's possible, but I think it was me as I was the last car in the junction after the cars going from Slateford Road on to Angle Park and before cars coming from Harrison Road and Ardmillan Terrace.

 

I'll need to wait and see the pictures, but as far as I am aware I was in the yellow box and past the white line. No different to how I have done it thousands of times before, except for the flash....

 

Fingers crossed it wasn't me or the camera flashed in error or something. If I was caught speeding or running a red then I'd hold my hands up and take the points, but this would be a sickener if it's a case of not being far enough into the junction before making a turn. 

 


I don’t think it would be a flash in error I just think they flash periodically as we wee reminder. 

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45 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Looking at Google maps, if you were in the yellow box then you would be nowhere near the white line, the yellow box is painted at the angle of the road and is way past the lights.

 

 

Screenshot_20201120-115618_compress53.jpg

Looking at that just now makes me more certain I was definitely past the white line and well into the box junction. Also, the flash came as I was almost fully into the left lane of the road on the right.

 

Thanks to everyone for their help so far, expect a bump in the next few weeks depending on what comes in the post.

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27 minutes ago, Dazo said:


I don’t think it would be a flash in error I just think they flash periodically as we wee reminder. 

I believe speed cameras do this if they have not been set off after a period of time. And when they do it is when a car goes past but only flashes once, not twice for the two pics needed

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1 hour ago, milky_26 said:

I believe speed cameras do this if they have not been set off after a period of time. And when they do it is when a car goes past but only flashes once, not twice for the two pics needed


To be honest I’ve mainly noticed the one on Corstorphine road which does it quite regularly. I was sure it was a double flash but might be wrong. 

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