Ambitions as a club

[Maroonblood22]

I think the catalyst in achieving the ambition we all seem to share, starts with qualifying for the Europa League group stages.

 

We see year after year Scottish teams outwith the OF 'qualifying for Europe' and that always makes me laugh because most of the time they are pumped out in the first or second rounds - "aye we got beat by Fisherman in the first game but at least we got into Europe". Always seems like such a pointless accolade unless it leads to a decent run. Anyway...

 

We should be setting the ambition of reaching the group stages to secure those extra games and revenue which will not only help raise the funds to challenge for the Premiership but also raise the general profile of the club.

 

You look at some of the clubs that reach the group stages and there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't expect to be in there. It will take time as it's obviously not an easy task particularly if you're unlucky with the qualifying draw, but for me that's the catalyst to build on for eventually challenging for the league.

[Biffa Bacon]

I am not sure who would qualify as the 3rd biggest club in England (or other countries for that matter). But I would be hugely surprised if their ambition was to finish 3rd in their league.

[Restonbabe]

21 hours ago, McCrae said:

 No reason why we should not have the expectation of winning a cup on a regular basis and winning the league now and then.

 

Whilst obviously we have less resources than Celtic or Sevco if we punch above our weight we can achieve this. It all depends on how well the club is managed.

Punching above our weight would mean challenging the old firm to the title. We have been howfin past 3 seasons in the league, yet regularly making the latter stages of the cup competitions. 

The fact we haven't won the league Cup since 1956 is horrific for a club of our size. 

The fact we haven't done anything domestically since 2012 is testimony to how poorly the club has been ran. Both financially and departmentally. 

 

Only realistically having Aaron Hickey as a sellable asset coming through the ranks since Callum. Patterson proves that the academy is under performing. 

The counter to that statment is that it pumps out tallent that still plays for other clubs. 

We receve no money for this is my argument. 

The ambition of this football club should be to challenge the old firm every season. European qualification to the group stages and developing and selling players for a profit 

[sadj]

2 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

Yeah true but Celtic had come out of a 9 in a row in 70s, Rangers won two trebles.  The OF won every league from 66-80.  It's not a million miles from where we are now.

I think it is personally. I think the disparity financially is far greater now than it was then. Football was not as money orientated so it was a more level playing field across the board. Although there may have been teams who would dominate leagues throughout Europe there was still a degree of competitiveness to things. In terms of Scotland I would imagine if looked at other teams gates were higher and the Old Firms gates lower. That alone provides both Celtic and Rangers with a huge advantage before any commercial sponsorship is taken in to account. There is no way we will ever see Hearts , Aberdeen or United able to fill even a 25000 stadium week in , week out.
 

I’m sure someone would be able to do the maths but id imagine even our 15mil annual turnover from everything would only be around half of what both those make from season tickets alone. 
 

 

[Rudy T]

49 minutes ago, Maroonblood22 said:

I think the catalyst in achieving the ambition we all seem to share, starts with qualifying for the Europa League group stages.

 

We see year after year Scottish teams outwith the OF 'qualifying for Europe' and that always makes me laugh because most of the time they are pumped out in the first or second rounds - "aye we got beat by Fisherman in the first game but at least we got into Europe". Always seems like such a pointless accolade unless it leads to a decent run. Anyway...

 

We should be setting the ambition of reaching the group stages to secure those extra games and revenue which will not only help raise the funds to challenge for the Premiership but also raise the general profile of the club.

 

You look at some of the clubs that reach the group stages and there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't expect to be in there. It will take time as it's obviously not an easy task particularly if you're unlucky with the qualifying draw, but for me that's the catalyst to build on for eventually challenging for the league.

 

The problem is we play the fisherman about a month before the season starts.

 

I think the spfl have to look at that and do something to help the clubs. These early rounds are our level now and if we're to see a non OF team have a decent run then something has to change.

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Restonbabe said:

Punching above our weight would mean challenging the old firm to the title. We have been howfin past 3 seasons in the league, yet regularly making the latter stages of the cup competitions. 

The fact we haven't won the league Cup since 1956 is horrific for a club of our size. 

The fact we haven't done anything domestically since 2012 is testimony to how poorly the club has been ran. Both financially and departmentally. 

 

Only realistically having Aaron Hickey as a sellable asset coming through the ranks since Callum. Patterson proves that the academy is under performing. 

The counter to that statment is that it pumps out tallent that still plays for other clubs. 

We receve no money for this is my argument. 

The ambition of this football club should be to challenge the old firm every season. European qualification to the group stages and developing and selling players for a profit 

Most of this post hurt my head badly , really badly. 
 

Romanov decimated the academy and that is not a 5 year rebuild so in my opinion our Academy is too young to judge against others , at least for another couple of years. In saying that. How many big sales have any football team academies in Scotland made , im sure someone will have the facts and figures to hand. Outside of Tierney I am struggling to think of any personally.  

[IveSeenTheLight]

Interesting thread this and leads to interesting thoughts on where clubs expect to be.

[McCrae]

21 minutes ago, Restonbabe said:

Punching above our weight would mean challenging the old firm to the title. We have been howfin past 3 seasons in the league, yet regularly making the latter stages of the cup competitions. 

The fact we haven't won the league Cup since 1956 is horrific for a club of our size. 

The fact we haven't done anything domestically since 2012 is testimony to how poorly the club has been ran. Both financially and departmentally. 

 

Only realistically having Aaron Hickey as a sellable asset coming through the ranks since Callum. Patterson proves that the academy is under performing. 

The counter to that statment is that it pumps out tallent that still plays for other clubs. 

We receve no money for this is my argument. 

The ambition of this football club should be to challenge the old firm every season. European qualification to the group stages and developing and selling players for a profit 

I agree.

[XB52]

21 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

100% agree I desperately want Hearts to win the Scottish Premiership - it has to be our ambition.

 

However, as I’ve said numerous times the 4 times a season format makes it even harder for us to achieve than the likes of AZ and Leicester.

Leicester paid over 100 million(I think) in transfer fees to win the league. It was hardly David v Goliath as it was portrayed in the media. Our only chance is to have another loveable lunatic like Romanov punt millions into the club. Unfortunately that would probably end in us struggling to survive like last time.

[Haken]

22 hours ago, Deevers said:

Quite simple -our ambition should be to win every time our team sets foot on a football pitch no matter who we are playing.

Pretty much this.

[PapaShango]

I always dream that one season everything clicks and we win the title. I think the same before the season starts every year, only to be brought crashing back down to earth. I grew up watching Hearts in the early to mid 80's and have seen us put in some credible challenges for the league only to fall short. 98 is probably the closest we have come since 86 but it just wasn't to be. Always felt that JJ thought the league had gone before the end of the season and concentrated on winning the cup. The two games in April vs Motherwell at home and away to Hibs probably ended it for us but I always look back to the game with Rangers at Ibrox in February or March where they scored a last minute equaliser against us.  Looking at the final table though we were only 7 points off of Celtic I think which is great going when you look at the side they had back then. 

 

So ambition wise now? Has to be one step at a time and make sure there is longevity this time and a strategy for improvement. Felt like we were recruiting players with no idea where they would fit into the side. Improving the youth side is another area we need to improve on along with scouting. Surely there are young players in the lower leagues that can be recruited and improved. We always done this whether than was Cameron, McCann or more recently Templeton. These guys gave us a few great years then netted us transfer fees. 

[Boris]

3 hours ago, Restonbabe said:

 

The fact we haven't won the league Cup since 1956 is horrific for a club of our size. 

1962/63, but your point still stands.

[jambonian]

16 hours ago, Jason Dufner said:

Win the SPL. If that’s not the aim what’s the point?

 

I don't disagree but finance determines what you can and can't do. A one-off game like the '98 Cup Final is always a possibility but getting to the last couple of games to win a League is a lot more exhausting and far more difficult to do. 

We had a terrific team in the mid 90s under JJ and signed some really good players from the likes of Dundee (Hamilton. McCann), Raith Rovers (Cameron), Falkirk (Fulton, Weir) plus a few experienced heads like Pointon, McPherson etc. helped. Add to that good connections in Europe to find the likes of Adam, Salvatori & Flogel and you have a competitive team. It's a lot more difficult to do now as the Champions League fund Celtic's signings and Rangers 2012 will just get stronger in the next couple of years. The ridiculous amounts of qualification rounds to even get into Europe now is harder, especially when some Champions League teams don't qualify and automatically drop into the Europa league. Without the money that European football brings in we can't afford the better players we once used to have. And without better players the best you can hope for is finishing third in a pretty poor league and hope for a decent Cup run. 

[JamboGraham]

I enjoy threads like this and find it fascinating...

 

What is ambition for a football club...to win every match it plays?  Or perhaps to be competitive in every match it plays? You could argue that if it’s not the former then what is the point of the football club? This is an argument often made about teams like Hamilton whose ambition would only appear to be competitive. My view is that the ambition is why a football club exists.

 

Next is the goal of the football club...to win the title, to qualify for Europe, to win cups, to finish top half, or simply stay in the league? However, these are just objectives and it’s almost meaningless to simply say “we want to win the title” as a stand-alone objective.

 

The final ingredient is the targets for the club. This adds a number, a date or a time to our goals. A title in the next decade? Two cup wins a decade, Europe every other season, etc.

 

Where a club positions itself across ambition, goals and targets is often where we (as supporters) so often disagree.

 

The other factor to consider is does the club have the resources to match our ambitions, targets and goals. If not then we are in bother.

 

Lastly we mustn’t forget that we are also surrounded by competitors who will have near identical ambition, goals and targets. Two competitors have significantly greater resource to deliver this and several have comparable resources. A frustrating fact is that very little of what we do can have any direct influence on what our competitors are doing.

Edited November 12, 2020 by JamboGraham

[iwasthere1954]

22 hours ago, sadj said:

 

So you are saying don’t make a business plan? 🤔
 

Fergie and McLean were competing with an average Rangers team. I think in the first half of the 80s Rangers were something like 5th 3rd 5th 3rd 4th , Celtic were always there about but the financial gap was not the same back then. 
 

 

I'm all for making financial plans but you know as I do that the majority posting on this site are referring to on the field progression. Obviously finances are linked to success on the park however as we know one bad season can sink everything. I honestly can't see many clubs many five year plans.

[LarrysRightFoot]

9 hours ago, XB52 said:

Leicester paid over 100 million(I think) in transfer fees to win the league. It was hardly David v Goliath as it was portrayed in the media. Our only chance is to have another loveable lunatic like Romanov punt millions into the club. Unfortunately that would probably end in us struggling to survive like last time.

What’s £100m when you are up against City, Chelsea etc.? Probably equivalent of us spending £2m.
 

I agree we need investment but other things need to happen as well. 

[OTT]

On 12/11/2020 at 11:18, IveSeenTheLight said:

Interesting thread this and leads to interesting thoughts on where clubs expect to be.

 

What do you see as Aberdeens ambitions? Not from up that way, but imagine you guys suffer from the same issues of Aberdonian OF fans which basically hamstring you being able to draw on a larger following?

[Jambo-Fox]

We need a strategic plan to get to the top and be number one! We might achieve that but if we don’t there’s a good chance of being second or third. If we only have a plan to be third then it’s likely we will only be fourth or fifth.

 

Aim for the very top anything else is planning for failure. 

[Ribble]

On 11/11/2020 at 12:54, Agentjambo said:

Will we have the finances to build a team/squad able to challenge the old firm? 

 

Not until we establish ourselves as third consistently, that means europe very season and once you have that you need to stay in europe long enough to finance the squad to challenge the OF

[hdoctor]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:57, Restonbabe said:

Punching above our weight would mean challenging the old firm to the title. We have been howfin past 3 seasons in the league, yet regularly making the latter stages of the cup competitions. 

The fact we haven't won the league Cup since 1956 is horrific for a club of our size. 

The fact we haven't done anything domestically since 2012 is testimony to how poorly the club has been ran. Both financially and departmentally. 

 

Only realistically having Aaron Hickey as a sellable asset coming through the ranks since Callum. Patterson proves that the academy is under performing. 

The counter to that statment is that it pumps out tallent that still plays for other clubs. 

We receve no money for this is my argument. 

The ambition of this football club should be to challenge the old firm every season. European qualification to the group stages and developing and selling players for a profit 

 

[hdoctor]

1962 was the last time we won the league Cup. We won the Scottish league last Cup ib 1956

[Guest ToqueJambo]

23 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Lastly we mustn’t forget that we are also surrounded by competitors who will have near identical ambition, goals and targets. Two competitors have significantly greater resource to deliver this and several have comparable resources. A frustrating fact is that very little of what we do can have any direct influence on what our competitors are doing.

 

This is a key point, and it's the reason why it's all very well to say we should hammer every lower league team by 4 goals every game and finish 3rd minimum every season but in practice other teams will have something to say about that as they are doing everything they can to stop us doing that. That's why we will always get a 5th place or whatever every 3 years or so that might be down to our manager and players but will almost certainly be down to another team having a great season.

 

In the past it went like this pretty consistently - build a team and have a half-decent season in the process, eg 4th, that team clicks and we have a really good season in the league and maybe cup, BUT that attracts attention and we lose some key players so almost inevitably if we're going to have a 5th place it often comes one or two seasons after we've had a fantastic season. That's why we almost never have two 3rds or two 2nds in a row. What we do is fluctuate between 2nd and 5th, with 2nds becoming harder to achieve due to the OF stretching away financially and the fact that most clubs below the OF now aim to live sustainably. That's not accepting mediocrity, its' accepting reality and making sure you enjoy the good times and regroup quickly during the bad times (which we generally do - the last few years since Cathro have been unusual in that we haven't picked ourselves up).

[Guest ToqueJambo]

On 11/11/2020 at 14:22, Cruyff said:

Mate. If we were to finish 5th, that would mean either Hibs, Kilmarnock or, Motherwell would  finish above us. 

So on what planet would that be acceptable? 

 

 

These teams do build good sides now and then. Not often, but now and then.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

On 11/11/2020 at 15:04, RobNox said:

We cannot compete with Celtic or Rangers on a financial basis, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have ambition to compete for and win league titles.

 

 

I think we've learned enough the last few years to analyse our and other teams good seasons to know what it takes, basically all or most of:

 

A good, but even more importantly, inspirational manager the players love

Solid recruitment with a bit of investment in the team

A smattering of home-grown players who will do anything for the club

At least 2 or 3 genuine top class players at the Skacel, Hartley, Robbo, Cameron, Gordon, Webster, Levein, Weir level

Building momentum result-wise (like now really)

One or both of the OF slipping up

Our best players staying clear of injuries

Being pretty much unbeatable at Tynecastle

Consistently beating "the rest" and then showing up when it matters vs the OF

A bit of luck with refs, or at least not having them on our case, doesn't hurt either

 

It's hard but definitely possible.

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

On 11/11/2020 at 14:54, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

I think Aberdeen is where I want us to be in say 3 years , the difference is we'd have 19k Hearts fans every week and could maybe break through the ceiling they haven't. 

Long way to go tho. 

 

The irony is, when it comes to fan contributions and youth development, Aberdeen quoted us in their business plan as a model to follow. Although that was before last season I think!

 

On (and off) the pitch the advantage they got was when Rangers and ourselves imploded, plus Hibs were on the decline, they were free to sign every good player the OF didn't want. Their whole "success" is built on that period. They built a good team from those players and had stability behind the scenes to keep it together and build on it season by season. To be fair they kept it going when we came up and in 17/18 they did well to finish above Rangers but Rangers were still a gong show then, and we had declined under Cathro. 

 

The last two seasons they underachieved massively relative to their budget and this season so far they're neck and neck with a very poor Hibs team, and yet again they've been dumped out the cup by the OF.

 

There's no doubt if we can get promoted and this covid shit ends, well be really well positioned. Neilson could definitely be our McInnes in terms of building a team with some stability behind him and a supportive owner.

[Greedy Jambo]

One of the problems we have in aiming to win the league is, any time we come across a really good player, bigger clubs come knocking. 

Rangers and Celtic cherry pick all the best talent, even if they don't intend on playing them. 

Then you have clubs down south on top of that. 👎

[Guest ToqueJambo]

On 12/11/2020 at 02:46, Biffa Bacon said:

I am not sure who would qualify as the 3rd biggest club in England (or other countries for that matter). But I would be hugely surprised if their ambition was to finish 3rd in their league.

 

They don't have a top 2 like we do though. They have a top 5 or 6 with similar resources and realistic expectations of winning the title. To find the equivalent of us you need to look at the middle-ranking teams. But as has been discussed the gap between our top 2 and the next best funded team (eg us) is much, much bigger than the gap between the top 6 in the EPL and the next best funded.

 

I mean, Aston Villa, who would have been relegated last season if the SPFL ran that league, spent more in transfer fees than Man U and Liverpool before season 19/20. When have Hearts outspent one of the OF?

 

According to this - https://www.sportekz.com/football/premier-league-clubs-wage-bills/ - the next team that should be "best of the rest" is Everton this season. For that table it looks like Everton and Leicester are effectively the Aberdeen and Hearts of that league wages wise. Let's see when they next win anything!

Edited November 13, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

dp

Edited November 13, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Getintaethem]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:14, Maroonblood22 said:

I think the catalyst in achieving the ambition we all seem to share, starts with qualifying for the Europa League group stages.

 

We see year after year Scottish teams outwith the OF 'qualifying for Europe' and that always makes me laugh because most of the time they are pumped out in the first or second rounds - "aye we got beat by Fisherman in the first game but at least we got into Europe". Always seems like such a pointless accolade unless it leads to a decent run. Anyway...

 

We should be setting the ambition of reaching the group stages to secure those extra games and revenue which will not only help raise the funds to challenge for the Premiership but also raise the general profile of the club.

 

You look at some of the clubs that reach the group stages and there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't expect to be in there. It will take time as it's obviously not an easy task particularly if you're unlucky with the qualifying draw, but for me that's the catalyst to build on for eventually challenging for the league.

 

I agree with most of this, regular European qualification and getting ourselves into the group stages of the Europa league would generate revenue and help attract better players.  That”s the way to close the gap on the old firm.

 

  Ironically we were on the verge of this with Robbie last time around, before the Cathro experiment and the subsequent fukwittery set us back half a decade.

 

  Obviously the priority this season is securing our place in the top flight.  But with better recruitment, and (if we are to believe Levein about anything) an academy now capable of producing top quality youngsters, there’s no reason we can’t be back in European competition in the 22/23 season.  Even the qualifying for the group stages is not easy, but it’s where we should be aiming.

 

No one knows how Scottish football will look after this pandemic is over, we can only hope that with the fans backing and prudent financial controls, that we come out in a better place than most of our rivals.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Getintaethem

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The irony is, when it comes to fan contributions and youth development, Aberdeen quoted us in their business plan as a model to follow. Although that was before last season I think!

 

On (and off) the pitch the advantage they got was when Rangers and ourselves imploded, plus Hibs were on the decline, they were free to sign every good player the OF didn't want. Their whole "success" is built on that period. They built a good team from those players and had stability behind the scenes to keep it together and build on it season by season. To be fair they kept it going when we came up and in 17/18 they did well to finish above Rangers but Rangers were still a gong show then, and we had declined under Cathro. 

 

The last two seasons they underachieved massively relative to their budget and this season so far they're neck and neck with a very poor Hibs team, and yet again they've been dumped out the cup by the OF.

 

There's no doubt if we can get promoted and this covid shit ends, well be really well positioned. Neilson could definitely be our McInnes in terms of building a team with some stability behind him and a supportive owner.

 

 

Yeah, I think we are better positioned of the pitch to take advantage if we were as consistent as Aberdeen have been. 

We'd be better placed to break through the glass ceiling and assert more dominance over the rest, maybe even show a little more ambition than they have. 

 

However, right now my short term goal is to as consistent as them, being in the championship we are a bit of that that but the gap can be closed quickly - we and Hibs have shown in the past. Being consistent is the trick and imo having one manager in place for over the past 8 years or so will have helped. 

 

Aberdeen have not been perfect ( behind Killie then well) but right now we can only dream of having their league finishes over the past decade, it's a shitty fact they have been miles ahead of us on that front. 

 

 

Robbie could definitely be that man. 

A sc win in a month would be great start. 

 

 

 

[Spellczech]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

They don't have a top 2 like we do though. They have a top 5 or 6 with similar resources and realistic expectations of winning the title. To find the equivalent of us you need to look at the middle-ranking teams. But as has been discussed the gap between our top 2 and the next best funded team (eg us) is much, much bigger than the gap between the top 6 in the EPL and the next best funded.

 

I mean, Aston Villa, who would have been relegated last season if the SPFL ran that league, spent more in transfer fees than Man U and Liverpool before season 19/20. When have Hearts outspent one of the OF?

 

According to this - https://www.sportekz.com/football/premier-league-clubs-wage-bills/ - the next team that should be "best of the rest" is Everton this season. For that table it looks like Everton and Leicester are effectively the Aberdeen and Hearts of that league wages wise. Let's see when they next win anything!

I don't think it is fair to compare SPL with England. They have so much money compared to us.

 

There are problems in football on the Continent which are similar to Scotland though:

Italy:1 team; 

Germany:1 team; 

Spain:2 teams but could soon be 1 team;

France:1 team;

 

Apart from England the leagues have never been so boring an predictable - I have an acca this year on winners of all the above leagues plus Munich to retain the CL, and ironically Celtic are looking the most unlikely!

 

[IveSeenTheLight]

On 13/11/2020 at 13:12, OTT said:

 

What do you see as Aberdeens ambitions? Not from up that way, but imagine you guys suffer from the same issues of Aberdonian OF fans which basically hamstring you being able to draw on a larger following?

‘Aberdeen is quite a small city, with a nomadic population that rotates with work. Therefore we have quite a percentage of “non-aberdonians” in the city.

Aberdeens largest percentage of support comes from the shire and we’ve always struggled to regularly fill the stadium, even in the glory days.

 

In terms of ambition, we, similar to yourselves see ambition as punching above our weight, which in the modern climate, unfortunately is struggling to compete with the old firm.

Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs are all realistically playing in the same ball park, there’s not that much of a gap between us (commercially), therefor, our realistic challenge is always to come out on top of that three and whoever may join us punching above their own weight I.e. Motherwell, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone etc from recent seasons.

 

The target will always be Europe, with the changes to the format, next season will see the best opportunity for group games in a long long time. Therefore this years Scottish Cup (2020/21) or being 3rd gives that best opportunity.

Breaking that barrier and qualifying for groups has to be an aim beyond our domestic targets as it offers the best opportunity to grow our revenue.

 

league wise, unfortunately, with the finances at hand, were resigned to only realistically being able to challenge in a perfect storm. A few seasons ago, we took it to the third last game, but I always thought Celtic were comfortably cruising and would have been able to step up had we fared any better. It’s unfortunately highly unlikely with the two cheeks positioned as they are.

 

The league was more competitive when we only played each other twice. The league would only become potentially more competitive if it was to return to a similar format. There are two many teams, even out with the two cheeks that won’t allow that to happen

[IveSeenTheLight]

23 hours ago, Getintaethem said:

 

 Even the qualifying for the group stages is not easy, but it’s where we should be aiming.

 

With the changes to the European structure next season, the Scottish cup winners / 3rd place, will have two opportunities to reach the group stage with potential seedlings in the games.

 

The season after, potentially could guarantee group stage football, either in the Europa League, or the Europa Conference League

[IveSeenTheLight]

On 13/11/2020 at 16:23, ToqueJambo said:

 

The irony is, when it comes to fan contributions and youth development, Aberdeen quoted us in their business plan as a model to follow. Although that was before last season I think!

 

On (and off) the pitch the advantage they got was when Rangers and ourselves imploded, plus Hibs were on the decline, they were free to sign every good player the OF didn't want. Their whole "success" is built on that period. They built a good team from those players and had stability behind the scenes to keep it together and build on it season by season. To be fair they kept it going when we came up and in 17/18 they did well to finish above Rangers but Rangers were still a gong show then, and we had declined under Cathro. 

 

The last two seasons they underachieved massively relative to their budget and this season so far they're neck and neck with a very poor Hibs team, and yet again they've been dumped out the cup by the OF.

 

There's no doubt if we can get promoted and this covid shit ends, well be really well positioned. Neilson could definitely be our McInnes in terms of building a team with some stability behind him and a supportive owner.

A lot of myth and bluster there.

Who did we sign that other clubs would have been interested in?
Kenny McLean? You guys were in the top league then, same as Graeme Shinnie. Who else?

 

We had two poor years that essentially we finished 4th.

 

Killie over performed under Clarke two years ago and pipped us on goal difference.

 

Motherwell last year benefited from the league being stopped. We were on our way down to Motherwell, (who were on an extremely poor run of form) and everyone was expecting us to beat them, which meant we would have been back up to 3rd. If we have a poor season yet still qualify for Europe then we’re still hitting a target and it’s not that bad.

As for this year, we’ve beaten Hibs home and away, are above them with a game in hand and the luck that Hibs have had in the first round of fixtures would seem unlikely to continue, thus they’re going to hit a bad patch. I actually think Motherwell will catch them.

 

As for your last sentence, we’ve heard that time and time again. The challenge is delivering on it.

[avhudtheteeshirt]

How would it have turned out if Rangers were winning the league by 10 points and Celtic were having a bad season?

Would the league have been called?

Would the Scottish Cup have been played to a finish last season to give Celtic a European spot?

Its all ifs and buts, but the way the SPFL/SFA have stumbled through all this just shows, their only interest is the big Glasgow 2!!!!

[gregzy2k7]

The short term ambition i.e over the next year or two, Imo should be to just get back in the top league after this season/a cup win would also be an excellent bonus this year, But not expected, I would also like us to tie down top young talent like irving and mcgill on long term contracts too, Then next season to push for a top 4/5  finish in the top flight.

 

Mid term - Say over the next 7 years, For me i would like us to target at least between 2-3 top 3 finishes and 75% of the time target a finish in the top 4, If possible i would like us to target getting to the europa league group stage even if we could just acheive it once, That would be financially brilliant for the club and fans too, I would also like us to target at least 1 cup win during the next 7 year period. Oh and let's please ensure that we are never in danger of dropping back into the bottom six or worse being near the relegation zone for a long time.

I think having good manager stability is key for this (look at aberdeen with mcinnes) and that should be instilled in the values of the club with neilson being given the time and financial backing from the club and hopefully the fans when possible season after season.

 

Long term i.e 10 years and beyond

I honestly would like us to build as a club season after season, For us not to make too many wholesale changes ensuring that we grow as a team and club, Maybe we could fill the corners of our stand in by this point and bring the stadium capacity up to circa 25k, I hope the target for foh is around 11/12k members by that point too and I guess potentially at some point, Maybe in around 10/12 years time have enough quality and finance to take on the old firm and challenge for the title, I always believe this should be the long term ambition of this club, Much like Scotland qualifying for the Euro's i would absolutely love to see hearts win the league in the next 10-15 years and i think that should be the target.

 

[Jambo-Fox]

1 hour ago, gregzy2k7 said:

The short term ambition i.e over the next year or two, Imo should be to just get back in the top league after this season/a cup win would also be an excellent bonus this year, But not expected, I would also like us to tie down top young talent like irving and mcgill on long term contracts too, Then next season to push for a top 4/5  finish in the top flight.

 

Mid term - Say over the next 7 years, For me i would like us to target at least between 2-3 top 3 finishes and 75% of the time target a finish in the top 4, If possible i would like us to target getting to the europa league group stage even if we could just acheive it once, That would be financially brilliant for the club and fans too, I would also like us to target at least 1 cup win during the next 7 year period. Oh and let's please ensure that we are never in danger of dropping back into the bottom six or worse being near the relegation zone for a long time.

I think having good manager stability is key for this (look at aberdeen with mcinnes) and that should be instilled in the values of the club with neilson being given the time and financial backing from the club and hopefully the fans when possible season after season.

 

Long term i.e 10 years and beyond

I honestly would like us to build as a club season after season, For us not to make too many wholesale changes ensuring that we grow as a team and club, Maybe we could fill the corners of our stand in by this point and bring the stadium capacity up to circa 25k, I hope the target for foh is around 11/12k members by that point too and I guess potentially at some point, Maybe in around 10/12 years time have enough quality and finance to take on the old firm and challenge for the title, I always believe this should be the long term ambition of this club, Much like Scotland qualifying for the Euro's i would absolutely love to see hearts win the league in the next 10-15 years and i think that should be the target.

 

Sir, I commend you on this strategic plan! Plans like this will take us up and up year after year! 

[Rocky jamboa]

Let's face it, 3rd is really where we should be every season. 4th/5th absolute worst case. 

 

Budge has got off lightly leading us to 5th, 6th, 6th and effectively 12th in the last 4 seasons. 

 

Based on our fan base and income, it's an absolute joke where we are.