Ambitions as a club

[Cruyff]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

Never being out of the top 6, a cup run every season or two, battling for a European place every season, these are our realistic expectations every season especially when living within our means, which is the aim. Everything else is hope.

 

If things come together and we get no injuries and the OF falter then maybe a once in a lifetime challenge at the top is possible, but in 18/19 we saw what happens when injuries hit a club with our budget. The one thing every real league challenge we've put in (85/86, 05/06 and I guess 14/15) has in common is our best players played pretty much every game.

 

That's also the common denominator in the 2nd places we had (without really putting in a serious title challenge) in the late 80s and 90s. 05/06 is the outlier. It felt like a real challenge because we had a deeper squad and could cope with players being out and without the managerial shenanigans we could realistically have won the title that season. We'll never be in that position again in terms of the quality and depth of our squad and the money spent on it, so we'll have to hope for an 85/86 style challenge out of nowhere, and/or lucking into the next Alex Ferguson.

You have some seriously low standards if you deem 5th or 6th to be acceptable. The managers feet shouldn't even touch the floor on the way out the door if we're finishing 5th.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You have some seriously low standards if you deem 5th or 6th to be acceptable. The managers feet shouldn't even touch the floor on the way out the door if we're finishing 5th.

 

Just as well I don't then. I didn't say that anywhere. I said top 6 minimum (you can't challenge for Europe without being in the top 6) plus the other things. Obviously I'm also realistic to know we won't do all those other things every season and once in a while we will get a 5th.

[iwasthere1954]

42 minutes ago, Cut The Crap said:

 

Not sure I follow. Are you saying the original five year plan wasn't aimed at delivering success on the pitch? If not, what was it for?

 

More generally, it would be good to have some insight into how the leadership of the club sees us approaching the next 1, 3, 5 years.

 

If the plan is to delay making any ownership changes or strategic decisons while we ride out the current storm, then say so.

 

I just get a sense of strategic and leadership drift at the moment.

 

    

I think making 1, 3 or 5 year plans is the problem. The club is making a stick to beat itself with. I can't honestly think of any other clubs that issue such plans.

 

[wavydavy]

5 minutes ago, iwasthere1954 said:

I think making 1, 3 or 5 year plans is the problem. The club is making a stick to beat itself with. I can't honestly think of any other clubs that issue such plans.

 

 

Hearts is a business and every business make plans and set objectives. This is how you gauge progress or otherwise.

[Cade]

Continue to humiliate that shitey wee club from the docks.

 

Win either of the domestic cups every few years.

 

Qualify for european action every 2-3 years.

 

This is realistic IMO.

Obviously Europe every year would be grand, either through league or cup results.

[jambonian]

1 hour ago, Agentjambo said:

Look at the Az alkmaar and Leicester examples... Small budgets compared to the bigger clubs in their leagues. Can't that be done here? Surely if we don't have the ambition to do this what's the point?? 

 

There's not a lot of point, and that's the problem. As soon as we get a good player he's out the door at the first opportunity. I mean, look at Vardy. Could've moved to bigger clubs but very happy to still be at Leicester. There's not a lot of players nowadays that would want to stay at Hearts. When you look back years ago Robbo played almost his entire career here. MacKay, Levein, McPherson and others all had very long spells at the club. If these guys were around nowadays then the likes of Celtic would snap them up on the cheap and ruin them. If that lot for example see some good players at other clubs they will get them and use them as back-up players and subs at best. You only need to look at Dundee Utd a few years back. Sitting in a good place in the Premier, Celtic sign two or three of their best players, none of them becoming regular players and they're out the door having lost a couple of development years in the process. There will be the odd exception like Armstrong at Southampton (i think it is) but looking at Dundee Utd as an example, they fell away to relegation after that and took 3 or 4 years to get back up. This is now the way of football now and in the future. The only way to stem the bleeding is to sign the best young players possible, get them on long contracts so that if they do become a major part of our team, we'll at least get some money in transfer fees. As for youth development...in theory it's the right thing to do but let's face it, we've hardly got a penny out of the system which does beg the question, is it actually worth the bother/investment? Sad state of affairs but that's the reality of modern football. It's spend big or fall into obscurity.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

Continue to humiliate that shitey wee club from the docks.

 

Win either of the domestic cups every few years.

 

Qualify for european action every 2-3 years.

 

This is realistic IMO.

Obviously Europe every year would be grand, either through league or cup results.

 

Higher quality European action again would be nice. I've changed from enjoying watching Scottish teams get gubbed in Europe to wanting them to do well, even the OF. Improving that coefficient is the only realistic way to give us some decent European nights again against half decent opposition instead of 100 early rounds before we've started pre-season.

[Agentjambo]

8 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

There's not a lot of point, and that's the problem. As soon as we get a good player he's out the door at the first opportunity. I mean, look at Vardy. Could've moved to bigger clubs but very happy to still be at Leicester. There's not a lot of players nowadays that would want to stay at Hearts. When you look back years ago Robbo played almost his entire career here. MacKay, Levein, McPherson and others all had very long spells at the club. If these guys were around nowadays then the likes of Celtic would snap them up on the cheap and ruin them. If that lot for example see some good players at other clubs they will get them and use them as back-up players and subs at best. You only need to look at Dundee Utd a few years back. Sitting in a good place in the Premier, Celtic sign two or three of their best players, none of them becoming regular players and they're out the door having lost a couple of development years in the process. There will be the odd exception like Armstrong at Southampton (i think it is) but looking at Dundee Utd as an example, they fell away to relegation after that and took 3 or 4 years to get back up. This is now the way of football now and in the future. The only way to stem the bleeding is to sign the best young players possible, get them on long contracts so that if they do become a major part of our team, we'll at least get some money in transfer fees. As for youth development...in theory it's the right thing to do but let's face it, we've hardly got a penny out of the system which does beg the question, is it actually worth the bother/investment? Sad state of affairs but that's the reality of modern football. It's spend big or fall into obscurity.

I believe we would have been very close in the season we had with Burley if he had finished the season, can't see why that can't be done again with investment and excellent recruitment. 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

Will we have the finances to build a team/squad able to challenge the old firm? 

 

No, not regularly. 

 

[TexasAndy]

I think the ambition should be to challenge for league and cups every season.  I get the size gap between the uglies and the rest but that never stopped Fergie and McLean in 80s.  I would hope our annual income including FOH and earnings from new stand would allow us to compete for decent quality in transfer market.  Would also hope and expect our academy to start producing regularly.   

[Cruyff]

18 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Just as well I don't then. I didn't say that anywhere. I said top 6 minimum (you can't challenge for Europe without being in the top 6) plus the other things. Obviously I'm also realistic to know we won't do all those other things every season and once in a while we will get a 5th.

You stated and I quote, "never being out the top 6" - as an ambition. So you must deem 5th or 6th as meeting that objective, no?

 

[jambonian]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Higher quality European action again would be nice. I've changed from enjoying watching Scottish teams get gubbed in Europe to wanting them to do well, even the OF. Improving that coefficient is the only realistic way to give us some decent European nights again against half decent opposition instead of 100 early rounds before we've started pre-season.

 

This is also a major problem these days. Back in the 80s and 90s clubs like ourselves, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd as well as the old squirm played European football regularly. Sadly the joke Champions League screwed it all up. Champions competition for Champions only, that's what it should be, not hangers on finishing 2nd/3rd/4th getting a crack at it. The money they make means it's impossible for anyone else to compete in their domestic leagues making them weaker financially and fewer quality players coming to said clubs. Worst mistake made was when the Champions League replaced the European Cup and they got rid of the Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Cup competitions. The other competition is also a joke. Clubs that don't qualify for Champions League drop into this competition so either way they make money. Even our own (old) League Cup could get you a euro place years ago and since that was taken away it's devalued. The Scottish Cup will become the same sooner rather than later. Sadly the days of Hearts and the others playing regularly in Europe are long gone. It won't happen again unless there is major investment, and that's not happening anytime soon. We don't even have a sponsor for the League! Embarrassing is an understatement. The best we can hope for nowadays is a good cup run and trying to get past a few qualifiers in Europe which rarely happens unless you're the old firm.

[ri Alban]

Just get intae thim.

[Bull's-eye]

Win a few games, lose a few games, draw a few games and bring home a Trophy every 4 or 5 years.

That'll do me.

 

 

 

 

[Craig_]

Think the short-to-medium term ambition should be to get into the Europa League group stages regularly. The revenue from that would then allow us to compete with the OF.

 

And throw in a few cup wins too, if that's not too much to ask...

[jambonian]

10 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

I believe we would have been very close in the season we had with Burley if he had finished the season, can't see why that can't be done again with investment and excellent recruitment. 

 

 I agree, Romanov should've left well alone but that sort of investment isn't going to happen anymore.

The problem with recruitment is that the likes of the Stephane Adams, Thomas Flogels, Salvatoris and Niemis of the 90s  won't come to Hearts anymore as wages are structured so as not to live beyond our means. Therefore we sign whatever is available now in the hope that he'll fit in, and more often than not, they're not much better than the players they've came in to replace. As i said..it's all about money nowadays and unless there's a rich Arab with unlimited millions in funds willing to take on a club like Hearts then i can't see how we (or others) can compete with the old firm never mind anyone else. It's very sad that football has come to that but it was always going to happen when players wages became ridiculous and transfer fees even more so.

[Macros]

The fact of football life in Scotland is there will likely only be either Rangers or Celtic winning the league as has been the case for the last 35 years and whilst it is very frustrating for the rest of us it's not uncommon in most leagues. In England apart from the period of Merseyside dominance in the mid to late eighties and Leicester's win in 2016, all the winning teams have either had long term massive financial backing or basically, in the cases of Leeds and Blackburn, bankrupted their clubs for a year or two of glory, something we were also guilty of. Leicester are sticking to it at the moment, yes they've had huge investment but Ranieri built a team on a comparatively small outlay. Spain has had 5 teams winning since '85 but with only 5 occasions outside of the Barca/Real dominance so it's not just a problem in Scotland.

As for Hearts I'd settle for regularly finishing either 2nd, 3rd or 4th in the league, always being above Hibs and preferably always being above Aberdeen and a cup win every few years, I'd really like to win the League Cup as it's been so long since we did. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Macros

[Debut 4]

40 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You stated and I quote, "never being out the top 6" - as an ambition. So you must deem 5th or 6th as meeting that objective, no?

 

This type of thread is good. It exposes different mentalities of supporters and what they accept/won’t accept.  
 

In Scottish terms I think we are definitely huge underachievers, and I’m not talking only in trophies. I’ve always longed for Hearts to find a new, engrained, almost automatic level of performance, that instead of 2 out of 5 seasons(just as a figure) being top 3, it becomes 4.  
 

We need more hunger around the club, and I include sections of fans, to want more, want better. Not just as a token gesture, something people are deeply passionate about. 
 

It’s not just “a few pints with the boys on a Saturday and a draw will do” outlook. 

[underwaterwoodwelder]

Winning is a mentality. . 

 

We should think that we can win every game we play in Scottish Football. As soon as you lower your winning mentality then you be as well as not bothering having a team on the pitch as too many teams want one over on us a raise their games. Or if it's the old firmyour best before you get on the pitch. That's been a massive problem not just with some of our players but some recent managers.

 

We are Hearts and we should win all our games!!!

 

[Texaco]

Ambition is all about perspective. Take the Scottish National team which is topical. All they want  to do is qualify for a Major tournament again. What happens next if we do? have we a chance to win it? Of course not folk will say, don’t be stupid we’re not good enough. So what's the point then if you're not in it to win it, tournament after tournament. Where's the ambition gone after qualifying? The Ambition has to be to beat the better ranked teams then you become a better team and who knows what might be achieved?  

 

Hearts on the other hand want to get back to the SPL. What happens once we're up? have we a chance to win it? Of course not folk will say, don’t be stupid we’re not good enough. So what's the point then if you're not in it to win it. Season after Season. Where's the ambition. The Ambition has to be to go to Ibrox and Parkhead and take points. Compete on the park with Rangers and Celtic and you’ll be the best of the rest and who knows what might be achieved? 

 

Ambition as a club is to beat the odds than are stacked against us. That to me is everything represented by the two arse cheeks.

 

[sadj]

2 hours ago, Cut The Crap said:

 

Not sure I follow. Are you saying the original five year plan wasn't aimed at delivering success on the pitch? If not, what was it for?

 

More generally, it would be good to have some insight into how the leadership of the club sees us approaching the next 1, 3, 5 years.

 

If the plan is to delay making any ownership changes or strategic decisons while we ride out the current storm, then say so.

 

I just get a sense of strategic and leadership drift at the moment.

 

    

Its been done to death many , many times on here , the original five year plan was by AB and related solely to the off-field side of things.

I think (and this is from my poor memory) that she also said there would be a separate football department plan but as I said I may be remembering that incorrectly. If that is correct it is not the one the usual suspects refer to when arguing about it they refer to AB’s one. 
 

I have no idea on this but someone else may , if there is a further delay Id assume the FOH are aware and have had to inform the contributors about it already. 

[Bluesy1874]

I think we should be aiming for promotion this season and then in the long run qualifying for Europe and Cup success.

 

It's difficult to know what can actually be achieved if the club is run and managed properly on and off the pitch. 

[sadj]

2 hours ago, iwasthere1954 said:

I think making 1, 3 or 5 year plans is the problem. The club is making a stick to beat itself with. I can't honestly think of any other clubs that issue such plans.

 

 

So you are saying don’t make a business plan? 🤔
 

1 hour ago, TexasAndy said:

I think the ambition should be to challenge for league and cups every season.  I get the size gap between the uglies and the rest but that never stopped Fergie and McLean in 80s.  I would hope our annual income including FOH and earnings from new stand would allow us to compete for decent quality in transfer market.  Would also hope and expect our academy to start producing regularly.   

Fergie and McLean were competing with an average Rangers team. I think in the first half of the 80s Rangers were something like 5th 3rd 5th 3rd 4th , Celtic were always there about but the financial gap was not the same back then. 
 

 

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Medicate every ***** good & bad 😏

[Greedy Jambo]

4 hours ago, Rudy T said:

Call me an old romantic but if Hearts are winning games I'm happy wherever that takes us so be it. We've only challenged the old firm twice in my time, won 3 Scottish cups and a championship.... If you're in this for glory you'll be massively disappointed.

 

No need to be so ambitious, mate.

[AlimOzturk]

If we won the league it would go down as one of the most remarkable achievements ever in Football. Would put the Leicester achievement to shame tbh. The gulf in finances between Rangers/Celtic and the rest is just enormous. 
 

Anytime we kick off a season however i expect us to to be aiming to win everything there is to win. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by AlimOzturk

[Bazzas right boot]

Basically what Aberdeen have been doing for the past 8 years. 

Then from there try and get further in Europe and actually win the odd cup- basically what they are trying to do as we discuss it. 

 

If you achieve that then aim a little higher. 

 

Right now promotion will do. 

A sc win would be unbelievable. 

[Jason Dufner]

Win the SPL. If that’s not the aim what’s the point?

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

If we won the league it would go down as one of the most remarkable achievements ever in Football. Would put the Leicester achievement to shame tbh. The gulf in finances between Rangers/Celtic and the rest is just enormous. 
 

Anytime we kick off a season however i expect us to to be aiming to win everything there is to win. 

 

 

If we won it this season it would be almost unbelievable. 😂

[Jambo61]

4 hours ago, McCrae said:

 No reason why we should not have the expectation of winning a cup on a regular basis and winning the league now and then.

 

Whilst obviously we have less resources than Celtic or Sevco if we punch above our weight we can achieve this. It all depends on how well the club is managed.

We have 2 chances to win the Scottish Cup this season, icing on the cake the hobos have 2 chances at failing in the Scottish Cup this season!

[Cut The Crap]

20 minutes ago, sadj said:

Its been done to death many , many times on here , the original five year plan was by AB and related solely to the off-field side of things.

I think (and this is from my poor memory) that she also said there would be a separate football department plan but as I said I may be remembering that incorrectly. If that is correct it is not the one the usual suspects refer to when arguing about it they refer to AB’s one. 
 

I have no idea on this but someone else may , if there is a further delay Id assume the FOH are aware and have had to inform the contributors about it already. 

 

Fair play. I went back to the original press release and found this:

 

"We must put in place a 3-5-year plan that will see our commercial activities totally re-vamped, such that they once again provide a solid financial under-pinning to our football club; and we must also completely revitalise and re-focus the football side of our club."

 

Later on, she mentions that the changes on the football side: 

 

"have been driven by everything that has been said about needing a long-term strategy, built over a 3-5-year planning horizon."

 

So, I don't think it's correct (nor does it make any sense) to completely separate the 5-year plan to revamp the commercial and organizational side from improved performance on the field. The two are inextricably linked. I'd go as far as to say there's no point in having a well-organised, well run organization if it doesn't feed through to success on the pitch.

 

Regardless of that ancient history, that type of clarity of vision and stategy seems to be missing now. The documentary left me feeling that, for all the eperience in place last year, nobody really had much of a clue or a plan as to how to get us out of the situation we got into. Things are going better so far this season, but is that really because we've learned any lessons from the past, or mainly because we are just spending more money than (most of) our opponents? 

 

I think we're also due an update on the transfer of shares to FOH. I hear what people are saying about them perhaps not wanting to create a stick that can then be used to beat them, but that's really not good enough from an organization which is itself underpinned by hard-earned monthly contributions from its "customers", many of whom could probably find other uses for the money in these increasingly troubled times.  

 

 

 

 

[Hectormasson]

2 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

I believe we would have been very close in the season we had with Burley if he had finished the season, can't see why that can't be done again with investment and excellent recruitment. 

A one off league win would be great " show it can be done , playing football like the way burley had us    would be something....don't see why it can't be done,     and a wee bit of a good ref whilst playing them .......

[OTT]

My ambitions/expectations for the club over the next decade are:

 

To continue to build, expand and grow the fan base. In Scottish football ticket sales are your income. That pittance Sky give us isn't enough to sustain any sort of title tilt or even to reinvest in yourself. To get up there we need to be aiming for 30k by 2030 with a gradual stadium expansion over the period. That, or we can keep slugging it out with Motherwell and Aberdeen (We're not even managing that ffs). The reason isn't a delusional belief we'll suddenly match Celtic and Rangers resources, thats just not based in any realm of reality, but we can broaden the gulf between ourselves and the next biggest clubs (dons and hibs). If we do that then being able to pick up the best of the rest players should become easier, and we'll be able to retain young talent for that crucial 2nd contract we seem to struggle to get them to sign.  I really want the club to have a clear vision with this. 20k ain't going to cut it. With a clear vision and strategy, it should be much easier to bring on board investors who care about the club like James Anderson. No one is chucking money down a black hole to support overspending on players, but clear investment in infrastructure designed to support long term growth shouldn't be as hard a sell. Especially with the security/ backing the FOH brings.

 

To become the premier team in Scotland for youth development. Celtic and Rangers can toss all the money they want at their academy, it means nothing because they have no interest in bringing through youngsters. Look at Ross McCrorie, great player but has had to move on because he has no chance there. Despite the gulf in resources this is a huge competitive advantage for us. I want Hearts to have the best and broadest selection for young players. Too many young players with genuine talent don't have the bottle to make the move away, but if we can build a reputation as the club in Scotland to be at for furthering your career, then hopefully that will encourage more lads to take the same leap of faith Hickey did. I think we could do this by looking very carefully at the quality of coaches we have in our academy and making sure our YD system is in sync with the first team.

 

To actually qualify for Europe every season. Obviously if we draw an EPL team or some other European heavyweight then astrix that, but in any other situation we're a big enough club to be making the group stages. Being put out by Maltese fishermen is utterly unacceptable and moving forward we need to be banging hard on the door at least. As things stand we're out with barely a whimper. 

 

I don't see these as outlandish goals. Edinburgh is a growing city with great transport links both internally and with the rest of the country. To expect another 10k to turn up when we can easily sell out at Hampden isn't outrageous. We should be able to draw easily across the Lothians and Fife - even the borders. Likewise, to successfully implement a strong youth policy with a sympathetic owner, isn't a hard task compared to other clubs. Budge (and her successor) will want to see this happen because its the path to 7 figure transfers. Managers will get time here to implement the youth policy, look at Levein ffs man got so much time we got chucked out the league!!! We regularly see plenty Danish clubs managing to get into the Europa league group stages season after season (all Scandinavian leagues bar Finland seem to do a passable job tbh).

[Rudy T]

23 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

No need to be so ambitious, mate.

 

I'm certain that like most on here I'm Hearts through and through they're my team always have been always will be. 

 

I've had unbelievable highs and ridiculous lows following us all over Europe. Had some of the best days of my life watching them. 

 

If the club have a vision to win  the league I'll be there every step of the way and have more great days, if they don't and we are shite I'll still be there. Makes no odds what my ambition for the club are, and lets be honest the last 5 year plan was a pile of shite so they'd be as well keeping their mouths shut and just go deliver on the pitch.

[Greedy Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

I'm certain that like most on here I'm Hearts through and through they're my team always have been always will be. 

 

I've had unbelievable highs and ridiculous lows following us all over Europe. Had some of the best days of my life watching them. 

 

If the club have a vision to win  the league I'll be there every step of the way and have more great days, if they don't and we are shite I'll still be there. Makes no odds what my ambition for the club are, and lets be honest the last 5 year plan was a pile of shite so they'd be as well keeping their mouths shut and just go deliver on the pitch.

 

Fair enough.

 

I think our main aim should be to challenge for Europe again, if not for the fans, for the financial benefits. 

[buzz]

Our ambition at the start of every season should be,and hopefully is, to win the league. However as someone earlier in the thread said as soon as a player shows any kind of promise they’re off at the first opportunity.

I’ve lost count of the number of good players from Hearts and other Scottish teams who have had their heads turned by the O/F only to go there and never be heard of again.

They only want them so that no other team has them.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 hours ago, Cruyff said:

You stated and I quote, "never being out the top 6" - as an ambition. So you must deem 5th or 6th as meeting that objective, no?

 

I put it as the bare minimum in a list of realistic aims for every season.

[Cruyff]

2 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

This type of thread is good. It exposes different mentalities of supporters and what they accept/won’t accept.  
 

In Scottish terms I think we are definitely huge underachievers, and I’m not talking only in trophies. I’ve always longed for Hearts to find a new, engrained, almost automatic level of performance, that instead of 2 out of 5 seasons(just as a figure) being top 3, it becomes 4.  
 

We need more hunger around the club, and I include sections of fans, to want more, want better. Not just as a token gesture, something people are deeply passionate about. 
 

It’s not just “a few pints with the boys on a Saturday and a draw will do” outlook. 

Yep, absolutely agree. 

Ambition and expectation has to be pushed by the support. We've sat back and meekly accepted utter dross for many years. 

That needs to change. 

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

I put it as the bare minimum in a list of realistic aims for every season.

That's like Motherwell level of ambition. A bare minimum of top 6.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

32 minutes ago, Cut The Crap said:

 

Regardless of that ancient history, that type of clarity of vision and stategy seems to be missing now. The documentary left me feeling that, for all the eperience in place last year, nobody really had much of a clue or a plan as to how to get us out of the situation we got into. Things are going better so far this season, but is that really because we've learned any lessons from the past, or mainly because we are just spending more money than (most of) our opponents? 

 

I think we're also due an update on the transfer of shares to FOH. I hear what people are saying about them perhaps not wanting to create a stick that can then be used to beat them, but that's really not good enough from an organization which is itself underpinned by hard-earned monthly contributions from its "customers", many of whom could probably find other uses for the money in these increasingly troubled times.  

 

 

Are we not doing better right now on the park simply because we have a better manager who has built a team better equipped for the challenges it faces?

 

In terms of the transfer of ownership, FoH were very clear that would be delayed until a things have settled down, which they haven't at all.

[Niemi’s gloves]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

 

That's like Motherwell level of ambition. A bare minimum of top 6.

If we aren’t willing to accept 5th or 6th in some years as players develop, we’ll never challenge Rangers and Celtic

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

This regime’s ambition doesn’t extend beyond merely being in the Premiership. They didn’t even seem so arsed about that either last season.

[Greedy Jambo]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Are we not doing better right now on the park simply because we have a better manager who has built a team better equipped for the challenges it faces?

 

In terms of the transfer of ownership, FoH were very clear that would be delayed until a things have settled down, which they haven't at all.

 

I'm still not convinced. 

I would say that we're doing better right now because we're a division below with a premiership team. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

 

That's like Motherwell level of ambition. A bare minimum of top 6.

 

I'm not sure why you're trying to argue here. I agree with everything you say. The list of things I said we should aim for and have realistic hopes of achievements was clear. The reason I included top 6 is for me bottom 6 is almost certainly a sacking offence for the manager unless there are real mitigating circumstances, while finishing 5th isn't. If it was, we would have sacked Doddie, Levein and JJ before they went on to achieve better things.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

If we aren’t willing to accept 5th or 6th in some years as players develop, we’ll never challenge Rangers and Celtic

 

Exactly.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Greedy Jambo said:

 

I'm still not convinced. 

I would say that we're doing better right now because we're a division below with a premiership team. 

 

You not being convinced doesn't surprise anyone.

[Greedy Jambo]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

You not being convinced doesn't surprise anyone.

 

Probably not, but that's what 6 years of utter dross can do to someone. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

47 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

Basically what Aberdeen have been doing for the past 8 years. 

Then from there try and get further in Europe and actually win the odd cup- basically what they are trying to do as we discuss it. 

 

If you achieve that then aim a little higher. 

 

Right now promotion will do. 

A sc win would be unbelievable. 

 

The past 8 years, Aberdeen benefited from us, Rangers, Hibs and D Utd being weakened for a long time. When it's been a stronger Premiership they've been no better or more consistent than us under Levein (first time around) or JJ. In fact they've been worse - 4th last season was serious underachievement - and their cup record is atrocious considering how many chances they've had to lift silverware. One LC is an appalling return.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

Probably not, but that's what 6 years of utter dross can do to someone. 

6 years. Really?

[Cruyff]

Just now, Niemi’s gloves said:

If we aren’t willing to accept 5th or 6th in some years as players develop, we’ll never challenge Rangers and Celtic

We're in the Championship because we meekly accepted 5th and 6th place finishes. No good enough. 

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, Texaco said:

Ambition is all about perspective. Take the Scottish National team which is topical. All they want  to do is qualify for a Major tournament again. What happens next if we do? have we a chance to win it? Of course not folk will say, don’t be stupid we’re not good enough. So what's the point then if you're not in it to win it, tournament after tournament. Where's the ambition gone after qualifying? The Ambition has to be to beat the better ranked teams then you become a better team and who knows what might be achieved?  

 

Hearts on the other hand want to get back to the SPL. What happens once we're up? have we a chance to win it? Of course not folk will say, don’t be stupid we’re not good enough. So what's the point then if you're not in it to win it. Season after Season. Where's the ambition. The Ambition has to be to go to Ibrox and Parkhead and take points. Compete on the park with Rangers and Celtic and you’ll be the best of the rest and who knows what might be achieved? 

 

Ambition as a club is to beat the odds than are stacked against us. That to me is everything represented by the two arse cheeks.

 

I always feel the stepping stone is being consistently dangerous, home and away - how often could we say that about us? Not often enough.

Pisses me off that our fanbase/budget advantage over a lot of teams doesn't manifest itself in the same way the old filth's budget often does over us.