Ambitions as a club

[Agentjambo]

Been thinking about this lately.I know we are trying to get back to being the 3rd best team in the country. However what do you think the clubs long term ambitions are/should be? Challenging the old firm? European football every season? 

[jamboman9]

5 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Been thinking about this lately.I know we are trying to get back to being the 3rd best team in the country. However what do you think the clubs long term ambitions are/should be? Challenging the old firm? European football every season? 

Think you answered the question already buddy.

[Deevers]

Quite simple -our ambition should be to win every time our team sets foot on a football pitch no matter who we are playing.

[Agentjambo]

2 minutes ago, jamboman9 said:

Think you answered the question already buddy.

Will we have the finances to build a team/squad able to challenge the old firm? 

[Tennant's 6's]

2 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Will we have the finances to build a team/squad able to challenge the old firm? 

Can't see that happening unfortunately. 

Even with a good Academy & scouting dept,  we'd lose any decent players in no time.

We should be aiming to eventually knock the sheep off of the 3rd best perch though. Regular euro football & Cup Finals 

[jamboman9]

3 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Will we have the finances to build a team/squad able to challenge the old firm? 

Will probably never have the finances of the ugly Sisters but will continue to strive to compete as we have since 1874.

[Agentjambo]

So no repeat of the burley year?? 

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Will we have the finances to build a team/squad able to challenge the old firm? 

Why don't you just give us your views?

[Nookie Bear]

Immediate ambition is to get back in the SPL.

 

Beyond that, we should be finishing 3rd and competing in Europe. We should be competitive in cups but we know that a bad draw can ruin that in the first round.

 

If we want to push on from there then we need to get James Anderson drunk and steal his credit card. And we somehow have to make our academy/youth policy into something remarkable.

[JamboAl]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

Immediate ambition is to get back in the SPL.

 

Beyond that, we should be finishing 3rd and competing in Europe. We should be competitive in cups but we know that a bad draw can ruin that in the first round.

 

If we want to push on from there then we need to get James Anderson drunk and steal his credit card. And we somehow have to make our academy/youth policy into something remarkable.

Correct.

One step at a time.

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

So no repeat of the burley year?? 

Impossible sadly , players like Janny, Takis would be on 20/30/40k per week now.. we will get a player at those level occasionally but will never be able to hold on to them. And it’s only going to get worse 

it’s very controversial but this I why I’d love hearts to be part of a bigger league.. boils my pish that teams like Bournemouth can outspend us 50 times over

[McCrae]

 No reason why we should not have the expectation of winning a cup on a regular basis and winning the league now and then.

 

Whilst obviously we have less resources than Celtic or Sevco if we punch above our weight we can achieve this. It all depends on how well the club is managed.

[Agentjambo]

Look at the Az alkmaar and Leicester examples... Small budgets compared to the bigger clubs in their leagues. Can't that be done here? Surely if we don't have the ambition to do this what's the point?? 

[Niemi’s gloves]

4 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 No reason why we should not have the expectation of winning a cup on a regular basis and winning the league now and then.

 

Whilst obviously we have less resources than Celtic or Sevco if we punch above our weight we can achieve this. It all depends on how well the club is managed.

Winning the league “now and then” will take continuity of management, a stable but evolving squad, a commitment to player development not to mention some luck. Moreover it will need acceptance that occasionally you have to go backwards to go forward. We will never win the league if we take the view that anything worse than third/fourth is unacceptable and requires a change of manager and a dozen new players coming in.

 

 

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, Agentjambo said:

Look at the Az alkmaar and Leicester examples... Small budgets compared to the bigger clubs in their leagues. Can't that be done here? Surely if we don't have the ambition to do this what's the point?? 

Club needs to operate within its means but instal an element of risk that is justified by its extraordinary fan base. Don't get trapped in the best of the best of the rest narrative which is self fulfilling and ultimately negative. Strong ownership, management, recruitment, academy. Add influence on league boards. The game here is effectively rigged. Accept that and you can fight the good fight.

[colinmaroon]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Impossible sadly , players like Janny, Takis would be on 20/30/40k per week now.. we will get a player at those level occasionally but will never be able to hold on to them. And it’s only going to get worse 

it’s very controversial but this I why I’d love hearts to be part of a bigger league.. boils my pish that teams like Bournemouth can outspend us 50 times over

 

 

Have to agree!   Money has screwed Scottish football, vise-a-vie the Uglies but, the silly money for the EPL, filtering down to the lower leagues has made it umpteen times worse.

 

We have three answers to that that conundrum:

 

1 We just do the best we can, with 3rd in Scotland being the glass ceiling.

2 We have a billionaire (real one) investor - problems? - we don't have to imagine them.

3 We go where the money is - outwith the confines of the current Scottish football scene.

 

 

 

[colinmaroon]

7 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Look at the Az alkmaar and Leicester examples... Small budgets compared to the bigger clubs in their leagues. Can't that be done here? Surely if we don't have the ambition to do this what's the point?? 

 

Certainly Leicester still have a massive budget, which enabled them to hold onto Vardy for example.

 

 

[Agentjambo]

I recall Robbie stating during his 1st period at the club that in the future he wants us to go to parkhead and win regularly...he clearly has ambition. 

[Rudy T]

Call me an old romantic but if Hearts are winning games I'm happy wherever that takes us so be it. We've only challenged the old firm twice in my time, won 3 Scottish cups and a championship.... If you're in this for glory you'll be massively disappointed.

[Rudy T]

3 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

Certainly Leicester still have a massive budget, which enabled them to hold onto Vardy for example.

 

 

 

And the cards fell right for them that year, from the so called big 6 only Spurs got near them, any other year a Manchester team or Chelsea or Liverpool would've blown them away.

[Agentjambo]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

Call me an old romantic but if Hearts are winning games I'm happy wherever that takes us so be it. We've only challenged the old firm twice in my time, won 3 Scottish cups and a championship.... If you're in this for glory you'll be massively disappointed.

I'd rather the club had ambitions to split the old firm rather than a defeatest attitude otherwise what's the point,if you can't dream about being the best or at least trying to be we may well just give up now. 

[Agentjambo]

Go big or go home is my attitude, you can't get more romance in football than what Leicester echieved. 

[Locky]

Basically what Aberdeen have done for the past decade or so, but a little less shite.

[Cruyff]

We're enormous under-achievers.

 

The minimum ambition should be finishing 3rd place in the league. Challenging for Cups at semi and final stages and playing in the group stages of the Europa League. If we reach that stage then we can look beyond that. 

[Agentjambo]

4 minutes ago, Locky said:

Basically what Aberdeen have done for the past decade or so, but a little less shite.

I'd rather be the wolf than the sheep. 

[XB52]

11 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

I'd rather the club had ambitions to split the old firm rather than a defeatest attitude otherwise what's the point,if you can't dream about being the best or at least trying to be we may well just give up now. 

So every club in Scotland should disband and leave the of to it???? And 95% of English clubs should pack it in too?? Our ambition should be to be the best we can be, end of story

[iwasthere1954]

31 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Look at the Az alkmaar and Leicester examples... Small budgets compared to the bigger clubs in their leagues. Can't that be done here? Surely if we don't have the ambition to do this what's the point?? 

You cannot compare Leicester or any other EPL team with any Scottish team as their small budgets are probably more than a 100 million. Our turnover was 15 million. To try and compete with the OF wouldn't be ambition  but financial instability. 

[Batistuta87]

3rd place and European football has to be the target every season. Occasionally challenging one of the OF to 2nd place and the odd cup win would be very nice, and stopping their constant and total domination over the league would be absolutely amazing although it would be hugely unprecedented these days with the gap being so big. At the end of the day we don't have anywhere near the fanbase or budget of the OF, so expecting to compete with them year on year is probably quite unrealistic. 

 

I think short-term, we'll be looking at:

 

This season: Promotion

Next season: Compete, stay up, rebuild the squad

Season after that: Top 6 finish

From then on: Regularly challenging for and achieving a European place

 

....... With cup wins always being a bonus as and when they happen.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Batistuta87

[Agentjambo]

7 minutes ago, XB52 said:

So every club in Scotland should disband and leave the of to it???? And 95% of English clubs should pack it in too?? Our ambition should be to be the best we can be, end of story

I'm not saying disband. I'm saying if you can't have ambitions on being the best of your league /competition what's the point of being? 

[Rudy T]

19 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

I'd rather the club had ambitions to split the old firm rather than a defeatest attitude otherwise what's the point,if you can't dream about being the best or at least trying to be we may well just give up now. 

 

Club can have all the ambition they want and you can dream all you want that's up to you. 

 

But here's some advice, enjoy the wins and don't dwell on defeats and you my son will be a Hearts fan.

[iwasthere1954]

23 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

I'd rather the club had ambitions to split the old firm rather than a defeatest attitude otherwise what's the point,if you can't dream about being the best or at least trying to be we may well just give up now. 

Give up now. Obviously you haven't followed HMFC for many years.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

A trophy laden dynasty

[LarrysRightFoot]

40 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Look at the Az alkmaar and Leicester examples... Small budgets compared to the bigger clubs in their leagues. Can't that be done here? Surely if we don't have the ambition to do this what's the point?? 

100% agree I desperately want Hearts to win the Scottish Premiership - it has to be our ambition.

 

However, as I’ve said numerous times the 4 times a season format makes it even harder for us to achieve than the likes of AZ and Leicester.

[Cut The Crap]

Realistically we should be aiming to be as consistent as Aberdeen have been for the past 7 or 8 years. I don't think we've finished above them since 2012. A shocking record.

 

As to what our ambitions actually ARE, we've been spared the embarrassment of another five year plan, so I've no real idea what the thinking is.

 

I can only assume that this season is all about staying in business and hopefully achieving promotion.  

[avhudtheteeshirt]

If you look at past chances of doing something in the top Scottish league, the media start to trowel for any kind of muck it can spread!

Then the UGLIES put in speculative bids for our players to unsettle them or take them away!

Then we have the problem with the match officials who start to see things that never happened to justify red cards!!

Its all been done before, and not just to us, its why Scottish football will always be a backwater in the bigger scheme of things!!!

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Cut The Crap said:

Realistically we should be aiming to be as consistent as Aberdeen have been for the past 7 or 8 years. I don't think we've finished above them since 2012. A shocking record.

 

As to what our ambitions actually ARE, we've been spared the embarrassment of another five year plan, so I've no real idea what the thinking is.

 

I can only assume that this season is all about staying in business and hopefully achieving promotion.  

**** me are people still trotting out the five year plan pish. When it wasnt in relation to the on field side of the business. This place cracks me up. Same obstinate behaviour and arguments from the usual people on here 🤣

[Agentjambo]

9 minutes ago, iwasthere1954 said:

Give up now. Obviously you haven't followed HMFC for many years.

Just 40,sick of the laid back defeatest attitude surrounding the club over those years. We have a clean slate(financially), a great fan base and in my opinion massive potential. That must be acted on or we are selling ourselves short. 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, avhudtheteeshirt said:

If you look at past chances of doing something in the top Scottish league, the media start to trowel for any kind of muck it can spread!

Then the UGLIES put in speculative bids for our players to unsettle them or take them away!

Then we have the problem with the match officials who start to see things that never happened to justify red cards!!

Its all been done before, and not just to us, its why Scottish football will always be a backwater in the bigger scheme of things!!!

Or are told before a game to not give penalties to teams 

[sadj]

Just now, Agentjambo said:

Just 40,sick of the laid back defeatest attitude surrounding the club over those years. We have a clean slate(financially), a great fan base and in my opinion massive potential. That must be acted on or we are selling ourselves short. 

Defeatist attitude of the last 40 years?

[Agentjambo]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

Defeatist attitude of the last 40 years?

Happy to be 3rd basically. 

[sadj]

Just now, Agentjambo said:

Happy to be 3rd basically. 

The club are never happy to be third. If you’ve ever been inside the club you would know this. Just because players , staff dont come out and say in public we can win the league or we want to win the league doesnt mean thats not the mindset inside the club. It very much is as is wanting to win every single game we play

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Agentjambo said:

Been thinking about this lately.I know we are trying to get back to being the 3rd best team in the country. However what do you think the clubs long term ambitions are/should be? Challenging the old firm? European football every season? 

 

We all know that only two clubs in Scotland have the financial power to continuosly win the legue and cup competitions.

 

Having said that I always feel a bit annoyed when everyone assume that third best is acceptable.

 

Our mindset should always be to be the best not third best.

[August Landmesser]

We should aim for European football (Europa or Champions League, I'm not fussy), and two cup finals every year, but budget for top six and no cup runs - in theory, we should then keep ahead of the finances and every bit of prize money above 6th place and a 3rd round exit is bonus money for reinvestment into the squad (and filling in the corners)

[Cut The Crap]

14 minutes ago, sadj said:

**** me are people still trotting out the five year plan pish. When it wasnt in relation to the on field side of the business. This place cracks me up. Same obstinate behaviour and arguments from the usual people on here 🤣

 

Not sure I follow. Are you saying the original five year plan wasn't aimed at delivering success on the pitch? If not, what was it for?

 

More generally, it would be good to have some insight into how the leadership of the club sees us approaching the next 1, 3, 5 years.

 

If the plan is to delay making any ownership changes or strategic decisons while we ride out the current storm, then say so.

 

I just get a sense of strategic and leadership drift at the moment.

 

    

[Debut 4]

I’m 46 but there’s older Hearts fans than me who’ll tell you it’s been the same ambition year on year, or expectations. 

 

The holy grail is to challenge and win the top league (which has been a lifetime saga 😁), otherwise you come to expect Hearts to be in , or hovering around, the top 3 most seasons. 
 

I’m not sure dedicated time frames to achieve “objectives” work or are ever met. As has been proven prior to RN coming back, you can dish out as much money as you want but if you don’t employ the right personnel from top to bottom, or make changes to those failed personnel when you should, you’ll mess it up.  
 

It’s a cliche but decision making is the biggest thing and that comes from the very top. 
 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Debut 4

[alwaysthereinspirit]

1 hour ago, Agentjambo said:

Been thinking about this lately.I know we are trying to get back to being the 3rd best team in the country. However what do you think the clubs long term ambitions are/should be? Challenging the old firm? European football every season? 

Well we play in Scotland so the last 35 years should tell you all you need to know.

Take a look at winners in other European leagues in that same period and you’ll see the battle us and every other Scottish team have.

For some reason the third rate association running our game sees competition as a negative for our league.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Never being out of the top 6, a cup run every season or two, battling for a European place every season, these are our realistic expectations every season especially when living within our means, which is the aim. Everything else is hope.

 

If things come together and we get no injuries and the OF falter then maybe a once in a lifetime challenge at the top is possible, but in 18/19 we saw what happens when injuries hit a club with our budget. The one thing every real league challenge we've put in (85/86, 05/06 and I guess 14/15) has in common is our best players played pretty much every game.

 

That's also the common denominator in the 2nd places we had (without really putting in a serious title challenge) in the late 80s and 90s. 05/06 is the outlier. It felt like a real challenge because we had a deeper squad and could cope with players being out and without the managerial shenanigans we could realistically have won the title that season. We'll never be in that position again in terms of the quality and depth of our squad and the money spent on it, so we'll have to hope for an 85/86 style challenge out of nowhere, and/or lucking into the next Alex Ferguson.

Edited November 11, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Biffa Bacon]

I hate the whole 3rd chat. It is bad enough that the media, the weegie press, the spfl board and sky sports openly accept the top two without fans joining in (often before a ball is kicked). I want to win, and I hope those at our club do too. It might need a gradual improvement year on year, but one day I hope to see us as league champions.

[ToadKiller Dog]

We should always set out every season with the aim to win whatever league we are in.

 

We really should be top 4 every season ,below 4 should be seen as poor ,bellow the artificial split as a disaster season.

 

Winning the Premiership against the uglies is a very very  long shot but its possible ,would need a lot of things to roll in your favour .

Need to take points at some level off the old firm and in a way which would make it difficult for the ref to offer them a helping hand, not drop stupid points at games like Hamilton, and hope more clubs could take points of the uglies .

Maybe both of them taking points off each other .

A lot of things would have to run in our favour such as key players avoiding injuries .

Even with that I would still expect the refs to step in to protect the Uglies .

The sending off of Takis in the 2095/6 season in the new year celtic game which ended the any real fight we had in competing with them for the rest of the season and changed the remaining games to be more about keeping above the orcs . 

 

Aberdeen never really got near it even with the Orcs ,us and hibs out of the way .

 

I live in hope but I recognise the many hurddles put up to make it near impossible for a non arse cheek team.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Agentjambo said:

Look at the Az alkmaar and Leicester examples... Small budgets compared to the bigger clubs in their leagues. Can't that be done here? Surely if we don't have the ambition to do this what's the point?? 

 

The gap between Leicester and the top 5 in England is negligible compared to the gap between Rangers and Celtic and us. Leicester might not pay 200 grand a week but they can pay 50 grand a week and fork out multi-millions in fees. Man U, Spurs etc can't sign every good player so a club like Leicester can still sign elite players and an elite manager. No idea about the Dutch league. I'm guessing it's more competitive than ours and there's less of a gap between the top 2 and the rest - is there even an OF style top 2 there?

 

I do think we can look at the clubs doing well in the Europa League and realistically dream of putting a run together in Europe. That's my dream. I've seen us challenge for a title and would love to see us put a cup run together in Europe. That's a realistic ambition, because it's a cup competition where anything can happen, but not really an expectation. And the group structure of European tournaments makes it less likely. I wish we still had a pure knockout tournament like when we got to the QFs under Doddie. Then we could have a realistic chance of putting together a cup run.