Berra......

[JimmyCant]

No room for sentiment here. At the end of the season, thank him for his service and shake his hand. He’ll do as a sub in this league but his time in a top league defence has been over for a while now.

[jambos are go!]

Given that Robbie played him for so long suggest to me that he wants to get him fit and available for the season ahead.

Edited November 11, 2020 by jambos are go!
correction

[The Treasurer]

I think everyone, including Berra, know that he is never going to be the player he was before his injury.

Hopefully he can still make a contribution this season.

From what I saw last night there is still no-one better at attacking the ball in the air. It's on the ground where he is found lacking just now.

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

No problem with that, and it was why I said choice, in that if one of the three was unfit/suspended the other two would become the two central defenders, I'm not sure if we will meet anyone during the league season where three central defenders would really be needed in a game.

I wonder if he has it in mind for the final, he played 3 at the back at least once at Celtic Park. But not sure if Berra would be worth playing against them apart from dead ball situations. 

[Borders Jambo]

17 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

Was a real mixed bag last night. I commented early on that he stood up to a couple runners early and showed very composed defending and the pace to deal with younger attackers.

He also found Wighton in particular with a few of his hoofs and it seemed to he causing East Fife real problems.

 

As the match wore on his long passes turned to completely aimless clearances. And the defense turned to shit.

Now that was all of them, but when your commanding experienced centre back wears the captains armband, he needs to play a part in even the failings of others. But he got ran ragged by Hamilton and Wallace as well, after maybe the first 25 minutes, they started causing him issues and got real joy out of Berra. And he lost a couple headers in the box......if he can't even do that right he is struggling.

 

If we'd pulled him after the first half hour I might have given him a glowing review. But we didn't and he spent 60 minutes looking lost.

I think he will be emergency cover and little more until he shows a lot more than last night.

I'd pretty much agree with all of this.  I thought he looked tired the last 15 minutes of the first half and it created that uncertainty again in defence.  The uncertainty was so similar to last season with poppadum hands

I was also hoping he was only going to get the first half, however I wonder if Berra was keen to continue.  
 

I wish he would simply pass a decent ball to one of the midfielders to create something but either he simply wanted to punt it or no one was showing for the ball.

I suspect this will be his last season with us and fingers crossed he has a part to play in our promotion.  If so, I hope he then goes on to play for someone else in the Championship or lower leagues as I think he could probably still have a role somewhere else. 

I think we have to take into consideration that it was his first game for months and whilst he will always be appreciated for his contribution to the club, I suspect (and hope) he will only have a bit part to play this season.

I also think that depending on what happens with Soapy, we may be looking for a couple of CH's next season.

[Boyces beard]

Berra has never been the same since his hamstring was ripped, his body has never recovered and his severe lack of pace means if he plays regularly the defence would need to sit much deeper. Have no doubt about it that Christophe is by far the best defender at the club when it comes to defending the penalty area and he would stick his napper on the moon if it was heading towards our goal. The problem is we are in the Championship and we will be doing most of the attacking which in turn means we will be playing with a much higher defensive line. This is not suited to Berra's strengths and i think he will be used sparingly by Robbie for the remainder of his playing days. When we are 2-0 up against Celtic in the cup final with our backs to the wall and we are sitting on our own 18 yard line... Berra coming of the bench will be worth his weight in gold.

[McCrae]

Whilst I think it’s likely his time is up....he needs to get match fit before we can make a proper judgment.

[wavydavy]

28 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

Given that Robbie played him for so long suggest to me that he wants to get him fit and available for the season ahead.

 

Maybe that's after watching Popescu.

[wavydavy]

30 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

Given that Robbie played him for so long suggest to me that he wants to get him fit and available for the season ahead.

 

I think Robbie is experienced enough to know when it is time to let a player go. He will utilize Berra until his contract expires and then I feel he will say a big thank you but not renew his contract.

 

If he does it may be with some sort of coaching role assuming Berra wants it. He may feel he still has a year or two left in him but hopefully not playing for Hearts.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

5 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Whilst I think it’s likely his time is up....he needs to get match fit before we can make a proper judgment.

Not sure he will ever be “match fit” to Hearts standards again, the guy can’t run anymore and is uncomfortable on the ball it’s clear that teams look to isolate him every game. He’ll be ok against the part time sides in this division but I’m hoping that Neilson sticks with Halkett-Popescu as first choice to keep their partnership going, the steady partnership between 2 players who can reliably stay fit is what we need even if natural ability wise neither of them are close to Berra’s level. Hope Robbie doesn’t get any ideas about trying to re-jig things to fit Berra back into the team eg. 3 at the back etc. just because of Berra’s former reputation as an ex top defender. The worry is that Neilson might delusionally think it’s possible to get his former team mate Berra back to his best, us fans who’ve been watching the last 2 years know that is simply something which will never happen. 

[fabienleclerq]

Been a great servant to the club but I'm not sure he's much left to offer on the park. The defence was a shambles last night, simple long balls from a part time team were causing chaos. 

[davie1980]

37 minutes ago, Borders Jambo said:

I think we have to take into consideration that it was his first game for months and whilst he will always be appreciated for his contribution to the club, I suspect (and hope) he will only have a bit part to play this season.
 

 

I did, as I said there were a few rays of hope there early in the game.

If fitness and game sharpness improves, maybe he can extend that beyond the first quarter of the match.

 

But I strongly suspect that is simply wishful thinking and maroon tinted specs. I think it's highly likely he is done.

 

As for playing on beyond this season, I reckon the only reason he is willing to play at championship level and the only reason he was willing to go to Dundee last term, was because he still wants to play for Hearts.

I don't imagine he would be interested in carrying on at a Cowdenbeath, when you consider the career he has had. If he can't deal with East Fife, I wouldn't be surprised if he calls it a day and looks to other options beyond next summer.

[Pans Jambo]

Unfortunately he's done for the SPFL. I  think he will be good back-up for the Championship season.

 

1, He needs to cut out the aimless hoofball.

2, He went on a charge forward yesterday, lost possession and that led to East Fife having a shot on target which they should have scored from. He shouldn't do that anymore either.

 

I'm glad he's fit again but the sad truth is, he wont be good enough next season and will struggle to hold down a regular slot this season. Good to have on the bench.

[Jim Panzee]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

How is he going to get a run of games though, we need to be winning games like Dunfermline who are above us. 

yes - hard to see this - you'd think RN would've sent Berra on loan to get those games under his belt - but as he hasn't perhaps we're going to see more of Berra than we think - possibly in place of Popescu. Or perhaps RN wants (as alluded to by another poster) to have Berra on the bench as a last 10-15 min do or die defender to hold onto a lead. 

[gordon simpson]

Hearts should say thanks and let him go ,he brings nothing to our team you could see an improvement as soon as he went off 

 

[CJGJ]

He is in the squad as cover and given we have to pay him anyway why not.

 

If he was not here we'd be struggling at centre back until March 2021 at least and would almost certainly have to sign someone and pay him.

 

For all the moaners just let next season take care of itself and concentrate on this season and see where he and the club are at....unlikely he will get a new deal but not worth all the angst some on here are showing for a back up central defender..oh and a man who has given plenty to our club lest you forget.

[DS98]

2 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said:

That part I'd totally disagree with, while some seem to dislike Craig Halkett for various reasons one thing Halkett is very good at is winning the ball in the air. Last night we were poor defensively, Berra has to be match fit now given how long he has been out but he isn't the player he was in the past any more. Going forward I think the middle three will become a choice of Halkett, Popescu and Souttar once he is fit to play again.

 

We never looked like losing last night, but failed to really capitalise on getting the opening two goals so early on.

I rate Halkett a lot. He is very aggressive in the air and attacks the ball well. He’s definitely not brilliant in the air though simply due to his height. He’s not a Berra or a Webby who will win 99% of headers every game. When Halkett comes up against a Doidge or Cosgrove he struggles. It’s not his fault but just the way it is. 

[gorgieheart]

22 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

He is in the squad as cover and given we have to pay him anyway why not.

 

If he was not here we'd be struggling at centre back until March 2021 at least and would almost certainly have to sign someone and pay him.

 

For all the moaners just let next season take care of itself and concentrate on this season and see where he and the club are at....unlikely he will get a new deal but not worth all the angst some on here are showing for a back up central defender..oh and a man who has given plenty to our club lest you forget.

  Exactly this !

 

Lets not have Berra being this seasons target for the pantwetters amongst our "support"  who traditionally love, just love ...to have a Hearts player to target and moan about...its kinda sad !

[3fingersreid]

2 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

Maybe I was being overkind in saying that.

Nothing wrong with being kind 😄

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Jim Panzee said:

yes - hard to see this - you'd think RN would've sent Berra on loan to get those games under his belt - but as he hasn't perhaps we're going to see more of Berra than we think - possibly in place of Popescu. Or perhaps RN wants (as alluded to by another poster) to have Berra on the bench as a last 10-15 min do or die defender to hold onto a lead. 

I doubt if he will take Popescus place, that would be two slow CHs susceptible to the ball over the top, we saw how bad that partnership was last season. Likely to be as you say a few games off the bench or if someone has a knock, or 3 at the back if Neilson feels it’s necessary. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

No one can seriously judge him on his first game back. However I do believe he is finished as far as the top league is concerned, but will provide valuable back up in the Championship. After this season I feel we need to move him on( possibly down ) and bring in someone younger and fitter. There is no doubt he will improve with fitness but unfortunately for me he will no longer be good enough for the top flight. Such a shame as he was a great servant to the club and a great player, time and age will always tell on a player and after such a bad injury his future is the lower leagues I fear.

[portobellojambo1]

3 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I wonder if he has it in mind for the final, he played 3 at the back at least once at Celtic Park. But not sure if Berra would be worth playing against them apart from dead ball situations. 

 

I'm honestly not sure that I'd like us to go with 3 central defenders in the final, effectively a back 5. I think when you are playing Celtic and you pack your defence you are giving them a huge lift. Just from what I've seen against Celtic so far this season, via TV, the best thing you can do against them is be more on the front foot, and look to put pressure on the poorest part of their side which is their defence. Make them do the thinking, and make the mistakes, don't sit off them and allow them to get a hold on how the game will be played. In saying that if we lined up 5-5-0 and got a win there is no way I would bloody complain, a win is a win whatever way you achieve it.

[Herbert.]

4 hours ago, McCrae said:

Whilst I think it’s likely his time is up....he needs to get match fit before we can make a proper judgment.

 

He was match fit last season and was terrible, what do you think has changed?

[Bluesy1874]

Unfortunately age catches up with everyone and that's what it looked like last night. 

 

I understand that was his first game since March but he was slow on the turn slow in possession and lacked composure thumping the ball up field or out the park aimlessly multiple times. 

 

He has not looked comfortable since the injury. 

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I'm honestly not sure that I'd like us to go with 3 central defenders in the final, effectively a back 5. I think when you are playing Celtic and you pack your defence you are giving them a huge lift. Just from what I've seen against Celtic so far this season, via TV, the best thing you can do against them is be more on the front foot, and look to put pressure on the poorest part of their side which is their defence. Make them do the thinking, and make the mistakes, don't sit off them and allow them to get a hold on how the game will be played. In saying that if we lined up 5-5-0 and got a win there is no way I would bloody complain, a win is a win whatever way you achieve it.

Yeah I’m not advocating it, for me the best way to play is to press all the time, especially against them as you say their defence is poor. Having the fitness and pace to do it to them at Hampden will be difficult for us to do with the players we have. Guys like Ginnelly, Roberts, Wighton would need to play and how do you fit Boyce and Naismith in? Plenty time to think about that though. 

[JohnB]

6 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Not played for a long time, but will absolutely be able to play a role off the bench.. best when we need to defend the penalty box as opposed to period on the game we are dominating 

 

Is this the CV you sent in to Robbie? If so, you sound a step up from Berra.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

30 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

He was match fit last season and was terrible, what do you think has changed?

Exactly. Berra is past it.

[Herbert.]

5 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Exactly. Berra is past it.

 

He should be coaching the kids now. No point in him taking a space in the first team when we have an academy that should be getting utilized.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, Herbert said:

 

He should be coaching the kids now. No point in him taking a space in the first team when we have an academy that should be getting utilized.

Agree. Playing wise, he's doing what he did last season, against far worse players. Hopefully it doesn't cost us again this season.

[Bazzas right boot]

Decent back up and still the best in the air at the club. 

 

First game back, got a good 70 minutes in but looked knackered. 

 

Good to see him out there tho. 

 

If I'm being honest, Popescu really concernsxme atm, gives the ball away too much in dangerous places and although not terrible, he's not really stood out as being a solid centre half either, but again early days. 

 

 

Might have a role as a sub as we desperately defend our 2-1 lead in the sc final as celtic throw everything at us!

Edited November 11, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Herbert.]

36 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

Decent back up and still the best in the air at the club. 

 

First game back, got a good 70 minutes in but looked knackered. 

 

Good to see him out there tho. 

 

If I'm being honest, Popescu really concernsxme atm, gives the ball away too much in dangerous places and although not terrible, he's not really stood out as being a solid centre half either, but again early days. 

 

 

Might have a role as a sub as we desperately defend our 2-1 lead in the sc final as celtic throw everything at us!

 

Imagine him against the pace of Forrest, Edward etc, We would be better flooding the midfield if were 2-1 up and defending further up the pitch.

[Hearts007]

8 hours ago, DS98 said:

A fully fit Berra will definitely have something to offer this year. Away games where it’ll be an arial bombardment. Any tall striker has the beating of Halkett and Popescu in the air. 

Totally agree so will wait till he's  fully fit again before writing him off

[Jamhammer]

8 hours ago, Chimp said:

Would rather a fully fit Berra than Popescu

I would rather see a fully fit Berra of 2 or 3 years ago than any of our centre backs but I think time has caught up with him, sadly.

If we were up against it with 10 or 15 to go I'd be more than happy to see him off the bench to batter and head everything clear and he's a goal threat at set pieces if, late on we're chasing a game but think, even in this league teams will target him, as East Fife did last night.

 

Having said all of that I'd be ****** delighted if he proved me wrong

Edited November 11, 2020 by Jamhammer

[vlad on the tyne]

Berra's fitness will improve but his lack of pace and chronic distribution won't. 

[DS98]

Does everyone who labels Berra as slow realise he’s the quickest centre half in our squad? 

[Jamhammer]

11 minutes ago, DS98 said:

Does everyone who labels Berra as slow realise he’s the quickest centre half in our squad? 

What are you basing this on? I'm not disagreeing I'm just curious where this info has come from/how recent it is.

[DS98]

1 minute ago, Jamhammer said:

What are you basing this on? I'm not disagreeing I'm just curious where this info has come from/how recent it is.

From a guy who’s trained/played with them every day since pre season. It’s generally known throughout the squad that Christophe is still one of the fittest in the team with stats to back it up. 
 

That says zero about his ability but when folk are using his pace as a stick to beat him with they might want to think about that. 

[been here before]

He's all done.  A couple of games off the bench should probably be his max.

[Jamhammer]

15 minutes ago, DS98 said:

From a guy who’s trained/played with them every day since pre season. It’s generally known throughout the squad that Christophe is still one of the fittest in the team with stats to back it up. 
 

That says zero about his ability but when folk are using his pace as a stick to beat him with they might want to think about that. 

Last season he seemed to be toiling every game I saw him play, I mean physically in pain. He came back from injury too soon, probably to help us out and didn't do himself any favours in doing so to be honest. He certainly doesn't seem quick when players run away from him

[Weakened Offender]

2 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Agree. Playing wise, he's doing what he did last season, against far worse players. Hopefully it doesn't cost us again this season.

 

FFS, It was his first game in 10 months. 

[Weakened Offender]

47 minutes ago, DS98 said:

Does everyone who labels Berra as slow realise he’s the quickest centre half in our squad? 

 

Clearly not. Cringe of a thread. 

[Hearts007]

Who's to say that Berra wasnt told to go long  last night?

[gashauskis9]

7 hours ago, jambo3tevie said:

Berra has never been the same since his hamstring was ripped, his body has never recovered and his severe lack of pace means if he plays regularly the defence would need to sit much deeper. Have no doubt about it that Christophe is by far the best defender at the club when it comes to defending the penalty area and he would stick his napper on the moon if it was heading towards our goal. The problem is we are in the Championship and we will be doing most of the attacking which in turn means we will be playing with a much higher defensive line. This is not suited to Berra's strengths and i think he will be used sparingly by Robbie for the remainder of his playing days. When we are 2-0 up against Celtic in the cup final with our backs to the wall and we are sitting on our own 18 yard line... Berra coming of the bench will be worth his weight in gold.

Aw man, I’d love to see Berra and Naisy lift the trophy together.  

[Holyrood_Hearts]

I’ve only seen the goals from last night & from what I gather he wasn’t at fault/could do better with either of them, but pretty much every comment I read from others watching the game was he was really poor again. 
 

His loan at Dundee last season apparently went very well for him but in terms of us it was a mistake by Neilson to bring him back into the first team squad. 
 

Stendel will always be right with dumping Berra out the squad. He was rank ****ing rotten for 18 months & if Levein or MacPhee had any backbone at the time they would taken him out the team. His fitness & ability was nowhere near what we required & I doubt thats much better now 

[Gershwin]

13 minutes ago, Holyrood_Hearts said:

I’ve only seen the goals from last night & from what I gather he wasn’t at fault/could do better with either of them, but pretty much every comment I read from others watching the game was he was really poor again. 
 

His loan at Dundee last season apparently went very well for him but in terms of us it was a mistake by Neilson to bring him back into the first team squad. 
 

Stendel will always be right with dumping Berra out the squad. He was rank ****ing rotten for 18 months & if Levein or MacPhee had any backbone at the time they would taken him out the team. His fitness & ability was nowhere near what we required & I doubt thats much better now 

 

Levein actually did take him out the team - dropping him against St Mirren away. Unfortunately Halkett got injured after about 10 minutes and he was straight back in.

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

 

1 hour ago, DS98 said:

Does everyone who labels Berra as slow realise he’s the quickest centre half in our squad? 

 

Think it's more his mobility than pace that's the worry. The way we want to play Berra will probably be back-up, or maybe the middle of a back 3 if we play that some games, until Souttar's back. He's good experienced back up for this level so long as he concentrates on headers and hoofs. Would be good to see us blood a young CB if we have one though. It's been slim pickings with youngsters there since Berra himself broke through.

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Think it's more his mobility than pace that's the worry. The way we want to play Berra will probably be back-up, or maybe the middle of a back 3 if we play that some games, until Souttar's back. He's good experienced back up for this level so long as he concentrates on headers and hoofs. Would be good to see us blood a young CB if we have one though. It's been slim pickings with youngsters there since Berra himself broke through.

Kingsley can play centre back but then you would likely have White at Left Back...a separate thread. 

[SMJ_1874]

3 hours ago, Herbert said:

 

Imagine him against the pace of Forrest, Edward etc, We would be better flooding the midfield if were 2-1 up and defending further up the pitch.

Forrest out for between 6-8 weeks and will miss the final. 😁

[SMJ_1874]

21 minutes ago, Gershwin said:

 

Levein actually did take him out the team - dropping him against St Mirren away. Unfortunately Halkett got injured after about 10 minutes and he was straight back in.

 

 

Wasn’t that Steve Maclean’s fault that he had to make a last ditch tackle from a shit ball by SM and injured himself in the process 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Kingsley can play centre back but then you would likely have White at Left Back...a separate thread. 

True. And Haring. A fit Berra can't hurt if we're in a pinch though. White seems best as a nuisance sub on the left wing.