Rangers fans scamming their way into games

[five wan]

Has it not also been the case that celtic fans use previous season match tickets and they still scan and get through the turnstiles using them?

how difficult would it be to change the bar codes twice a season?

 

At the end of the day if any away fan is injured due to overcrowding/ people standing in the gangways it is our club and ultimately Ann Budge who will be held accountable for this. Now that our security officer has said it on national tv we can’t deny that there is a problem and will held accountable if no measures are put in place to prevent this in the future. 
The club must act now

[Ribble]

12 hours ago, heartsfc_fan said:

Do other clubs using the barcode scan system have this problem? (Certainly Hibs have a similar barcode turnstile).

 

Could easily been done at Hibs tbh, at the last derby my ticket scanned at the turnstile but the turnstile didn't release, steward simply ushered me to someone manning a door and they scanned it again to let me in so although I wasn't scamming them it could just as easily have been that I scanned at the turnstile, went in and handed it to a mate right behind me

[davemclaren]

46 minutes ago, five wan said:

Has it not also been the case that celtic fans use previous season match tickets and they still scan and get through the turnstiles using them?

how difficult would it be to change the bar codes twice a season?

 

At the end of the day if any away fan is injured due to overcrowding/ people standing in the gangways it is our club and ultimately Ann Budge who will be held accountable for this. Now that our security officer has said it on national tv we can’t deny that there is a problem and will held accountable if no measures are put in place to prevent this in the future. 
The club must act now

Given there are unlikely to be any crowds in for several months I’m not seeing the extreme urgency. 

[Last Laff]

11 hours ago, underwaterwoodwelder said:

You can’t scan ticket twice. Trust me it doesn’t work.

Yes it does.  

[Last Laff]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Given there are unlikely to be any crowds in for several months I’m not seeing the extreme urgency. 

Exactly and probably the only reason it was highlighted on Monday. 

[Last Laff]

14 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Could easily been done at Hibs tbh, at the last derby my ticket scanned at the turnstile but the turnstile didn't release, steward simply ushered me to someone manning a door and they scanned it again to let me in so although I wasn't scamming them it could just as easily have been that I scanned at the turnstile, went in and handed it to a mate right behind me

Or alternatively your mate handed you his scanned ticket back to you.  Not saying it happened like but you get the drift. 

[iwasthere1954]

2 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

Lets not look too harshly on Rangers fans scamming their way into Tynie. Even our toilets must look like the Ritz to them. Proper day out.

 

"Malky....you tried this clear stuff in the taps.....barry man"

Funniest post today.😁😁😁

[Ribble]

4 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Or alternatively your mate handed you his scanned ticket back to you.  Not saying it happened like but you get the drift. 

 

Yeah that was exactly my point, where any of the systems will fall down is that you have 7 quid an hour students doing part time steward work that are suddenly under pressure as hundreds of fans are still outside the stadium moments before kick off so it's easier to take someone's word for it and let them in rather than have someone kick off and start a riot

[Last Laff]

14 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Yeah that was exactly my point, where any of the systems will fall down is that you have 7 quid an hour students doing part time steward work that are suddenly under pressure as hundreds of fans are still outside the stadium moments before kick off so it's easier to take someone's word for it and let them in rather than have someone kick off and start a riot

100%. 

[five wan]

22 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Given there are unlikely to be any crowds in for several months I’m not seeing the extreme urgency. 

When I said now I meant to look at the issue now and have something put in place for next season.

I agree that there will not be any sizable clubs in for a few months, we need to look into this in case we draw one of the erse cheeks, hibs or aberdeen in the Scottish cup

[Dallas Green]

1 hour ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Surely in today’s day and age there is a way to set up a bar code or QE code that used once can’t be passed back or copied and used again?

 

(not having a go at the club but the club is responsible for what happens in its own ground so should be looking at solutions to this)

 

Yeah, tbh i thought that's what happens and that is why genuine ticket buyers were stuck outside and couldn't get in the last time it happened but I think it is more once x amount of tickets have been scanned no more get it.

[Rudy T]

They do it at every away game, they let the fakes go first then the ones with the originals kick off at the turnstiles and invariably when there's 20+ all with the apparent same problem the stewards let them in as they're holding up everyone else. Celtic use the same tactic.

[4marsbars]

I'm bemused by the idea of tearing tickets on the way in, or putting a sharpie through them as a way of stopping this. Also bemused by the idea that people inside would chuck tickets over the fence to their mates.

 

If people were seriously trying to get in more than once with the same bar code, surely they would go for print your own ticket option then just make several copies?

 

I'm sure some people are daft enough to try such stunts but what would their plans be once inside a full stadium knowing they had a ticket for an already-occupied seat? You can't just hang around the aisles or doorways all game.

[Rudy T]

3 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

I'm bemused by the idea of tearing tickets on the way in, or putting a sharpie through them as a way of stopping this. Also bemused by the idea that people inside would chuck tickets over the fence to their mates.

 

If people were seriously trying to get in more than once with the same bar code, surely they would go for print your own ticket option then just make several copies?

 

I'm sure some people are daft enough to try such stunts but what would their plans be once inside a full stadium knowing they had a ticket for an already-occupied seat? You can't just hang around the aisles or doorways all game.

 

If you look at crowd pictures of the last time Celtic were at Tynecastle theres 100s stood in the isles and the stewards are helpless to move them. 

[4marsbars]

Just now, Rudy T said:

 

If you look at crowd pictures of the last time Celtic were at Tynecastle theres 100s stood in the isles and the stewards are helpless to move them. 

 

Point taken. 

[Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, Homme said:

At least in general they behave.

 

Celtic on the other hand. I remember their sections bordering on dangerous and that's before the catering and ballboy attacks etc not to mention the just all round vicious atmosphere.

Correct, the other arse cheek are next level scum compared to them.

[the general]

You cannot blame them for trying Hearts fans would try the same especially this season if we were allowed in

[the general]

13 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

I'm bemused by the idea of tearing tickets on the way in, or putting a sharpie through them as a way of stopping this. Also bemused by the idea that people inside would chuck tickets over the fence to their mates.

 

If people were seriously trying to get in more than once with the same bar code, surely they would go for print your own ticket option then just make several copies?

 

I'm sure some people are daft enough to try such stunts but what would their plans be once inside a full stadium knowing they had a ticket for an already-occupied seat? You can't just hang around the aisles or doorways all game.

 

You really can or stand 3 people in a section of 2 seats 

[The Treasurer]

2 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

Fairly sure last time at Fester there we got searched and had to show ticket to stewards/police line before you got into sterile area in front of turnstiles. 
 

I know for away fans at City and United the policy is the same
 

Does anyone know if we do the same. That should stop anyone getting through without a ticket

Trouble is, they have tickets that appear to be legit, that are either forged or copies. Difficult for stewards/police to spot without using expensive equipment and/ or ticket production

[XB52]

13 hours ago, Jamie Walker Tash said:

Im not having a go at the club but its been clear for years they do this yet not extra measures to stop it.

Who cares? If the bigot fans want to screw over other bigot fans so what

[Ribble]

12 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Who cares? If the bigot fans want to screw over other bigot fans so what

 

We care because when genuine fans are denied entry we have to refund them

[4marsbars]

20 minutes ago, the general said:

 

You really can or stand 3 people in a section of 2 seats 

 

True enough. So the problem is that the technology used to scan the barcode doesn't update whether or not someone has entered the ground. Must be fixable.

[The Gorgie]

19 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Who cares? If the bigot fans want to screw over other bigot fans so what

Completely missing the point but ok.

[Rudy T]

14 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Trouble is, they have tickets that appear to be legit, that are either forged or copies. Difficult for stewards/police to spot without using expensive equipment and/ or ticket production

 

Heres an example of how it's works: the queens eleven soldiers of orange King Billy Ulster branch loyalist RSC bus has 50 tickets they print two copies each 100 tickets in total. The tickets belong to named individuals let's call them the Williams numbers 1-50. Williams 1-50 give the 2nd copy to the Billy's numbers 1-50. The 50 Billy's go in first, then about 5 mins behind the 50 William's go to scan they get knocked back, so the 50 william's kick off at the gates, meanwhile behind them is 3000 buckfast coke fuelled angry huns wanting in.... the stewards have a decision to make, try and move the 50 William's on or to avoid a crush or worse just let them in as they appear to have tickets and can prove it's theirs. It's easy really. 

 

Only way way to stop it is to issue an actual ticket and take it off them at the turnstiles.

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Heres an example of how it's works: the queens eleven soldiers of orange King Billy Ulster branch loyalist RSC bus has 50 tickets they print two copies each 100 tickets in total. The tickets belong to named individuals let's call them the Williams numbers 1-50. Williams 1-50 give the 2nd copy to the Billy's numbers 1-50. The 50 Billy's go in first, then about 5 mins behind the 50 William's go to scan they get knocked back, so the 50 william's kick off at the gates, meanwhile behind them is 3000 buckfast coke fuelled angry huns wanting in.... the stewards have a decision to make, try and move the 50 William's on or to avoid a crush or worse just let them in as they appear to have tickets and can prove it's theirs. It's easy really. 

 

Only way way to stop it is to issue an actual ticket and take it off them at the turnstiles.

Do we givee print at home option to Gruesome Twosome fans? Can’t think why we would as we don’t sell them direct. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Rudy T]

16 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Do we givee print at home option to Gruesome Twosome fans? Can’t think why we would as we don’t sell them direct. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

No idea, but that's how they do it. They have two identical tickets, I worked with Celtic fans who did it every sold out game not just Tynecastle anywhere with a barcode entry.

[the general]

1 hour ago, 4marsbars said:

 

True enough. So the problem is that the technology used to scan the barcode doesn't update whether or not someone has entered the ground. Must be fixable.

 

I think there are 2 issues maybe related ... forged ticket type issues and people wanting to stand / sit with pals or had shan seats

[Nookie Bear]

56 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Heres an example of how it's works: the queens eleven soldiers of orange King Billy Ulster branch loyalist RSC bus has 50 tickets they print two copies each 100 tickets in total. The tickets belong to named individuals let's call them the Williams numbers 1-50. Williams 1-50 give the 2nd copy to the Billy's numbers 1-50. The 50 Billy's go in first, then about 5 mins behind the 50 William's go to scan they get knocked back, so the 50 william's kick off at the gates, meanwhile behind them is 3000 buckfast coke fuelled angry huns wanting in.... the stewards have a decision to make, try and move the 50 William's on or to avoid a crush or worse just let them in as they appear to have tickets and can prove it's theirs. It's easy really. 

 

Only way way to stop it is to issue an actual ticket and take it off them at the turnstiles.

 

Sometimes the easiest solution is the best.

[Mysterion]

Games against the old firm need to be made more awkward for them to visit.

 

More ticket checks, people being photographed as tickets are scanned on entry to create a record of who used what ticket. We submit ourselves to this behaviour every time we fly (albeit less in current covid circumstances). Time to clamp down on people ruining it for genuine fans.

[DETTY29]

So we have had problems with Celtic and potentially now Rangers; and last season Rangers fans charged gates at Kilmarnock with stewards having to open gates.

 

You would think the clubs involved, the football authorities, Police Scotland and press would recognise where the problem lies.

 

Every game involving Celtic and Rangers should be the same as last couple of times we are at Easter Road, plus more

 

Queues, tickets checked, twice if possible, with holding areas that Rangers and Celtic Heads of Security sort out issues.

 

Sniffer dogs, if their noses can stand the general smell.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Ribble said:

 

We care because when genuine fans are denied entry we have to refund them

I have never heard that before. Can you quote anyone saying this? If so I'll retract my post

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Jamie Walker Tash said:

Completely missing the point but ok.

What point? 

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

2 hours ago, 4marsbars said:

I'm bemused by the idea of tearing tickets on the way in, or putting a sharpie through them as a way of stopping this. Also bemused by the idea that people inside would chuck tickets over the fence to their mates.

 

If people were seriously trying to get in more than once with the same bar code, surely they would go for print your own ticket option then just make several copies?

 

I'm sure some people are daft enough to try such stunts but what would their plans be once inside a full stadium knowing they had a ticket for an already-occupied seat? You can't just hang around the aisles or doorways all game.

 

I think print at home is only an option for home tickets. The away tickets will be provided to the other club as actual tickets for them to distribute.

 

There is, or was, most definitely a problem with out ticketing system. It appears that once you have a valid barcode in your hand you can use it for any game.

 

Last season I bought tickets for two home games that were close together. One was Celtic at home midweek and the other was killie or st Johnstone I think the weekend before. I printed them out at the same time. I then took the Celtic ticket to the killie/st Johnstone game and didn’t notice I had the wrong ticket until I was in the ground....but it let me in - for the wrong game which clearly it shouldn’t have done.

[Der Kaiser]

So the problem is sharing tickets?

 

Solutions:

 

* Spray soap on any scanned ticket.

* Print a note on the tickets that "Sharing tickets is Gay".

*"Hand your ticket to our concession stand staff and they'll write f### the pope/or Queen on your cup"

* Don't let them in.

 

[The Gorgie]

47 minutes ago, XB52 said:

What point? 

The point that it's our club that gets hammered if there is an incident due to over crowding. 

[Harry Potter]

6 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

Lets not look too harshly on Rangers fans scamming their way into Tynie. Even our toilets must look like the Ritz to them. Proper day out.

 

"Malky....you tried this clear stuff in the taps.....barry man"

Malky🤣

[davemclaren]

34 minutes ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

 

I think print at home is only an option for home tickets. The away tickets will be provided to the other club as actual tickets for them to distribute.

 

There is, or was, most definitely a problem with out ticketing system. It appears that once you have a valid barcode in your hand you can use it for any game.

 

Last season I bought tickets for two home games that were close together. One was Celtic at home midweek and the other was killie or st Johnstone I think the weekend before. I printed them out at the same time. I then took the Celtic ticket to the killie/st Johnstone game and didn’t notice I had the wrong ticket until I was in the ground....but it let me in - for the wrong game which clearly it shouldn’t have done.

That’s pretty rubbish. 

[Tazio]

15 hours ago, underwaterwoodwelder said:

You can’t scan ticket twice. Trust me it doesn’t work.

You can in the Main Stand on the self service gates, I scanned a barcode and as I was chatting to the guy behind I missed the turnstile and it locked again, so I scanned the ticket again and got in. Of course it may have something like a short window of opportunity to rescan in case of eejits like me. 

[sadj]

15 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Scan the barcode on the ticket and simply draw a line through it with a black Sharpie marker. Done. 
Now the barcode could still be read by the scanner but if the person on the gate sees a ticket with a marked barcode they should be told to GTF!

how long does it take to scan and swipe a pen?

Surely it must be pretty easy for someone to adjuat the scanners so that when it registers as accepted it then pops a cutting tool up in a rectangle and cuts the area of the barcode out. That would stop it immediately

[4marsbars]

56 minutes ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

 

I think print at home is only an option for home tickets. The away tickets will be provided to the other club as actual tickets for them to distribute.

 

There is, or was, most definitely a problem with out ticketing system. It appears that once you have a valid barcode in your hand you can use it for any game.

 

Last season I bought tickets for two home games that were close together. One was Celtic at home midweek and the other was killie or st Johnstone I think the weekend before. I printed them out at the same time. I then took the Celtic ticket to the killie/st Johnstone game and didn’t notice I had the wrong ticket until I was in the ground....but it let me in - for the wrong game which clearly it shouldn’t have done.

 

 

Thanks. I'm learning a lot on this thread.

 

 

[Ribble]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

I have never heard that before. Can you quote anyone saying this? If so I'll retract my post

 

Well if I went to Ibrox and was refused entry because another Hearts fan had used a fake version of my ticket, i'd sure as hell be claiming a refund

[davemclaren]

41 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

 

Thanks. I'm learning a lot on this thread.

 

 

[Perrykitch]

Next season we should absolutely limit away fans to the minimum. if we don't do this we are really just forgetting everything that has happened. Not 100% sure on Rangers as they were fairly supportive but Hibs, Celtic and the others for sure. Whatever the minimum is (5%?) that's what they will get for the foreseeable future.

 

The club are getting plenty of money from us every month. If they continue to offer full stands to fans that screwed us over that will be it from me.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Simple solution. Give the OF a tiny corner for a few hundred of them, or ban completely. It's decades since I went to Ibrox or Celtic Park. How many tickets do we get for their grounds? Give them the same at Tynecastle.

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

That’s pretty rubbish. 

 

It is.

 

It immediately made me think that barcodes once activated can be used at any time. 

 

The next question is does the barcode system stop people from going through the wrong turnstile.

 

The next question is could an old firm fan buy a ticket for for a hearts v Hamilton game and then use it to get into the away end when they come to play?

 

The person on the turnstile did not look at the ticket....I had folded it up to let them scan the barcode.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Off topic but this talk of barcodes reminds me of the early 80s getting into games. Father and son gates where most of the fathers and sons weren't related. Getting lifted over. I also have a vague memory of going with my grandpa, who was cheap, at half time as you could get in for free (I think only in what was the away end) because they'd opened the gates in case people wanted to leave. 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 hours ago, five wan said:

Has it not also been the case that celtic fans use previous season match tickets and they still scan and get through the turnstiles using them?

how difficult would it be to change the bar codes twice a season?

 

At the end of the day if any away fan is injured due to overcrowding/ people standing in the gangways it is our club and ultimately Ann Budge who will be held accountable for this. Now that our security officer has said it on national tv we can’t deny that there is a problem and will held accountable if no measures are put in place to prevent this in the future. 
The club must act now

 

 

Not sure the club need to act now Tbh. 

 

The of aren't in our league and there are no crowds at the football. 

 

Falls in the important, but not urgent category. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

31 minutes ago, Perrykitch said:

Next season we should absolutely limit away fans to the minimum. if we don't do this we are really just forgetting everything that has happened. Not 100% sure on Rangers as they were fairly supportive but Hibs, Celtic and the others for sure. Whatever the minimum is (5%?) that's what they will get for the foreseeable future.

 

The club are getting plenty of money from us every month. If they continue to offer full stands to fans that screwed us over that will be it from me.

 

 

The club won't limit tickets because of a fans grudge ffs, for starters it would cost us 100'ks.

 

If we can fill most of tynecastle then yes, we should limit away fans, we have already done this with the OF fans but it depends on the home demand. 

 

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

11 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

The club won't limit tickets because of a fans grudge ffs, for starters it would cost us 100'ks.

 

If we can fill most of tynecastle then yes, we should limit away fans, we have already done this with the OF fans but it depends on the home demand. 

 

 

I would happily pay £5 per month to a keep the filth out fund. If 5999 other Hearts fans signed up that would cover the ticket sales for 4 home old firm games per season and we could limit them to say 50 tickets and not lose any money in gate receipts. 50 of them could be policed very easily.

 

That would also leave 3000 seats empty that could be sold or given away which would be either pure profit or at the very least cover catering savings.

 

 

[Fort Vallance]

6 minutes ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

 

I would happily pay £5 per month to a keep the filth out fund. If 5999 other Hearts fans signed up that would cover the ticket sales for 4 home old firm games per season and we could limit them to say 50 tickets and not lose any money in gate receipts. 50 of them could be policed very easily.

 

That would also leave 3000 seats empty that could be sold or given away which would be either pure profit or at the very least cover catering savings.

 

 

It would also save significantly on policing or rewarding costs.