***Official East Fife v Hearts Match Thread***

[jambonian]

25 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

You've got a lengthy opinion on the game for someone who never even watched it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I saw bits of it but others i spoke to today saw more of it and what i've said in the post isn't dis-similar to what i was told by them.  I have no reason to dis-believe their opinions.

 

15 minutes ago, Musemic said:

Motherwell have received getting on for £5m in 2020 from the sales of Scott and Turnbull. That's the sort of business we should be doing

 

We are supposed to have one of, if not thee best youth system in Scotland but we rarely see anything from it. Motherwell are a credit to themselves and obviously know how to produce decent youth players and develop them correctly.

[David Black]

Whilst not a great performance, I find it incredible the criticism some are levelling at the players. Having just watched the goals on Hearts TV I could not believe a senior club in Scotland is allowed to have a playing surface like that. It was a ******* disgrace. 

[Niemi’s gloves]

2 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

A player who caught my eye last night was Ryan Wallace. He never quite made the grade with us 10 years ago, but when you see his record in the lower leagues you might wonder why. I've seen him playing a couple of times during that period and he always looked a level above the teams he was playing with.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Wallace_(footballer)

I think he blew his debut (at Ibrox) in the manager’s view by going for glory right at the end instead of taking the ball into the corner, as he had been told to. I can’t remember if that cost us a point or almost cost us a point. Anyway, he was on his way at the end of the season. I can’t remember who the manager was either (but it was the Romanov era so plenty to choose from). 

[Mikey1874]

25 minutes ago, David Black said:

Whilst not a great performance, I find it incredible the criticism some are levelling at the players. Having just watched the goals on Hearts TV I could not believe a senior club in Scotland is allowed to have a playing surface like that. It was a ******* disgrace. 

 

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Clears up who got the 'assist' for the first goal.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Mikey1874

[Hackney Hearts]

2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

1.  We were pish.

 

Seen too many genuinely pish Hearts performances to agree with this. Yes we were pish for large chunks of the game, but at least we did a few decidedly non-pish things - which hasn't always been the case, whatever the opposition. Lee got a double. Scoring 2 goals in the first 90 seconds - I can't remember us ever dong that. Great to see, as we've all complained about starting slowly (since Burley really!). In a strange way, the lightening start may not have helped, I think the players thought 'game over' right there. Irving scored a brilliant goal. There was some good stuff here and there, like the interplay between Naismith and Wighton, while Henderson, for all that he's been written off on here, had a terrific run and cross (which Wighton should have converted). Yes we were frequently all over the place defensively - and sometimes lucky, especially right at the death when they couldn't even hit the target with only the keeper to beat. But it's a win, and an overall performance I'd call meh rather than pish or woeful.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Musemic said:

Motherwell have received getting on for £5m in 2020 from the sales of Scott and Turnbull. That's the sort of business we should be doing

 

 

Be good but as I said we must be in the middle, a few clubs have had a big transfer or two that's boosted it. 

 

I never said we had the most or the best, just that we weren't that bad and a comparison would be interesting. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

 

I saw bits of it but others i spoke to today saw more of it and what i've said in the post isn't dis-similar to what i was told by them.  I have no reason to dis-believe their opinions.

 

 

We are supposed to have one of, if not thee best youth system in Scotland but we rarely see anything from it. Motherwell are a credit to themselves and obviously know how to produce decent youth players and develop them correctly.

 

 

Still quite a strong opinion for something you've not witnessed imo. 

 

Every club is different, Motherwell with 4k fans and with less expectations Likley give youth more a chance as they can. 

 

Hearts with 16/17k in the stands can become very frustrated quickly with players making it less than ideal for developing and confidence. Unless a young player or that matter a new player hits the ground running they get written off quickly. 

 

Motherwell as a club have outperformed their status for 20 year or so, so yes they are due credit in most matters. 

Not sure we need to use them as another stick to beat Hearts around the head tho. 

 

Hibs have had the 1 big transfer but it could be argued hibs, Aberdeen and ourselves have not really done well in transfers, it begs the question why? 

 

I think it's the fact we generally want players to hit the ground running and have higher expectations making the chances of a youth player to slowly develop in the first team over 2/3 seasons less Likley. 

 

Interesting tho. 

 

Hickey, although not the highest £value was certainly the highest profile transfer from a non of team in Scotland for many a year, his refusal to extend his contract the biggest issue in the transfer being a little lower than expected. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

19 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yes the Killie with 3 points from 3 games. Their first team squeaked past Clyde today and their reserve team got cuffed 3-0 by Dunfermline at home while our reserves won every game. You can add Livvy to the "elite" list not exactly skooshing the LC as they scraped past Alloa at home.

Poor effort, one match was a forfeit 

[Gimme an H...]

Anyone found any video highlights? 

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

No team in the world can replace 6/7 players and be the same team. 

 

We're in our 2nd sc final having beat, according to some on here a very good hibs team. 

 

We've won all our league games. 

 

We've qualified, seeded from the the lc group stage for the first time since I remember, maybe 5/6  years?

 

Folk need to recognise the fact we haven't in the past blown away lower league teams regularly and we won't in the future. 

The other teams unfortunately try to stop that from happening, something that escapes many on here. 

 

I wonder if folk that think we should be scudding every  team by 4/5goals because of the finances will also be OK with celtic smashing 5/6 past us on the same principle? 

Or would they be crying out for battle, organisation and Heart, if so that applies when we play lesser teams but in reverse. 

 

It's a strange thing, folk must have watched us and Scottish football and in general just football and must have a better understanding of how football works, game to game and over a season. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you say in the past we haven't blown away lower league sides regularly what about the fairly recent past when we were last in this league when it contained two sides greatly superior to any, other than us, in the current set up. 

After our performances so far I can't say I am as confident as the East Five tv commentators who said we would win this league at a canter because we were a Premiership quality side.

Some of us seem to have been in denial about our lack of quality for years. I hope our first 8 games are not going to be indicative of how we play for the rest of this season. We need to up our game against the relative dross in this league not just as we did against Dundee and for a half against Hibs.

We are where we are because of our failure to perform against the supposedly lesser sides.

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Guest ToqueJambo]

17 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Poor effort, one match was a forfeit 

Yeah, they messed up. We didn't.

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

Yeah, they messed up. We didn't.

As long as we have registered all of our players this year. 🥴

[Guest ToqueJambo]

36 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

 

We are where we are because of our failure to perform against the supposedly lesser sides.

 

 

Why look back all the time? We are where we are - top of the league and 100% record - because of our success against supposedly lesser sides.

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Why look back all the time? We are where we are - top of the league and 100% record - because of our success against supposedly lesser sides.

Top of what used to be and still is the second division. If you think that is something Hearts should be pleased with then I am afraid I disagree. And they are not supposedly lesser teams. They are  lesser teams. Or certainly should be.

[upgotheheads]

3 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

He was decent. 

Went past a few players and decent speed of thought. 

 

I think many players don't make it because of mentality rather than technical ability across football. 

 

Stepping up to play in front of 18k is different to playing in front of a few hundred,  as is stepping up from 18k crowds to bigger crowds and expectarions at other clubs. 

 

Some players relish it, others don't. 

 

As I've gotten older, more and more I've realised football, in fact maybe even life is about mentality and resilience over technical skills! 

 

Wouldn't argue with that. The fact that for all his stats he hasn't been head hunted by bigger teams than he has played for might mean something, or maybe he has  different priorities in his  life.

[Nookie Bear]

47 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

When you say in the past we haven't blown away lower league sides regularly what about the fairly recent past when we were last in this league when it contained two sides greatly superior to any, other than us, in the current set up. 

After our performances so far I can't say I am as confident as the East Five tv commentators who said we would win this league at a canter because we were a Premiership quality side.

Some of us seem to have been in denial about our lack of quality for years. I hope our first 8 games are not going to be indicative of how we play for the rest of this season. We need to up our game against the relative dross in this league not just as we did against Dundee and for a half against Hibs.

We are where we are because of our failure to perform against the supposedly lesser sides.

 

I think the current squad is clearly good enough to win us the championship but it needs developing if we are going to be competitive next season. 

[gashauskis9]

4 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

A player who caught my eye last night was Ryan Wallace. He never quite made the grade with us 10 years ago, but when you see his record in the lower leagues you might wonder why. I've seen him playing a couple of times during that period and he always looked a level above the teams he was playing with.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Wallace_(footballer)

I remember him coming on at Ibrox and looking good, then Csaba dropped him, Robinson and Smith for being too young and inexperienced 😫

[been here before]

51 minutes ago, Gimme an H... said:

Anyone found any video highlights? 

 

Aye.

[BigAlim]

I wouldnt get too worried about next season tbh, last time when we went up there were a lot of fans that were happy with the team we had but Robbie made plenty of changes to the squad to get them third at the first time of asking. Can see a fair few players leaving in summer to make room for upgrades 

[Francis Albert]

21 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Why look back all the time? We are where we are - top of the league and 100% record - because of our success against supposedly lesser sides.

As for your first sentence. Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. The first time  is tragedy, the second farce.

Attributed to Hegel or Marx or both but one of my favourite quotes!

Edited November 11, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Gimme an H...]

16 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

Aye.

 

Care to share? 

[Francis Albert]

15 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

I wouldnt get too worried about next season tbh, last time when we went up there were a lot of fans that were happy with the team we had but Robbie made plenty of changes to the squad to get them third at the first time of asking. Can see a fair few players leaving in summer to make room for upgrades 

I will worry about next season until our performances consistently merit our position as strong favourites to be promoted.

[GinRummy]

34 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

As for your first sentence. Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. The first time  is tragedy, the second farce.

Attributed to Hegel or Marx or both but one of my favourite quotes!

Who has performed better than hearts so far on the league? Edit meant to quote your other post. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by GinRummy

[Francis Albert]

12 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Who has performed better than hearts so far on the league? Edit meant to quote your other post. 

In the second division Hearts. In the league Rangers and 11 others. Sorry but the distinction matters to me. A lot. I have always hated every minute of being in the second tier. Ever since our first ever appearance there when I was in my mid twenties.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

Yeah, they messed up. We didn't.

Don't count chickens 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

In the second division Hearts. In the league Rangers and 11 others. Sorry but the distinction matters to me. A lot. I have always hated every minute of being in the second tier. Ever since our first ever appearance there when I was in my mid twenties.

Not too chuffed about it either. I think we will win the league fairly easily. I also think it’s already obvious we’ll need to strengthen when we go up. I’d have liked is to build a team now to take us onto next season and beyond but given all the uncertainty that was probably unrealistic. 
 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

As for your first sentence. Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. The first time  is tragedy, the second farce.

Attributed to Hegel or Marx or both but one of my favourite quotes!

 

I hope we do repeat history and romp the Championship, then qualify for Europe the following season.

[maroonsgotop]

4 hours ago, Gimme an H... said:

Anyone found any video highlights? 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

When you say in the past we haven't blown away lower league sides regularly what about the fairly recent past when we were last in this league when it contained two sides greatly superior to any, other than us, in the current set up. 

After our performances so far I can't say I am as confident as the East Five tv commentators who said we would win this league at a canter because we were a Premiership quality side.

Some of us seem to have been in denial about our lack of quality for years. I hope our first 8 games are not going to be indicative of how we play for the rest of this season. We need to up our game against the relative dross in this league not just as we did against Dundee and for a half against Hibs.

We are where we are because of our failure to perform against the supposedly lesser sides.

 

 

I hope the first 8 games are 100% indicative of how the rest of the season goes. 

 

You can take our record in the lc group stages over the past 3 years of how we have performed v lower league sides and I could rattle of 5, maybe as many as ten defeats to lower league sides in the cup in my lifetime. 

Your last sentence is a half truth, the league was cut short early and we got voted down. 

[Harry Potter]

18 hours ago, davie1980 said:

 

Great post.

 

I still want us to put 5 past every championship club this season though and will reserve the right to moan when we don't.

Some certainly do moan, but entitled to their opinion.

[Gimme an H...]

10 hours ago, maroonsgotop said:

 

 

Nice one, cheers!

[indianajones]

11 hours ago, maroonsgotop said:

 

 

Not seen these yet. Thanks for posting. 

[JimmyCant]

On 11/11/2020 at 09:33, Big Moysey said:

Did any of the fringe players stake a claim for first 11 inclusion last night - No. Irving possibly closest, scored good goal but gave away possession at their first goal, frequently went backwards and a few times passed the ball then stood watching, no hunger or fight! As many have said job was done but think confirmed we have to improve our squad looking ahead. 

 

I think we did just enough to the squad to get us up. More due to finances than anything else. Anyone looking at us knows we have a very strong 15-16 players and not a great deal beyond that. That’s more then enough to get this league in the bag long before it finishes. RN and AB will both be well aware that this seasons squad would struggle to get away with it next season, both in terms of numbers and quality throughout. I’d expect 5 or 6 premier grade players to be brought in next summer to ensure we’re never in this league again. We’ve still got too many players at the club who aren’t good enough, even at this level.

[PapaShango]

I never take these type of games as an indicator. Crap weather, rubbish pitch, lower league team with nothing to lose, it's always set up as a difficult game. Throw in the fact that we played some fringe players and the young boy McGill in midfield, I will take the win over performance every day of the week. The folk bumping their gums must not be long watching Hearts or have short memories. I've seen us being dumped out the cup / play rubbish at worse teams than that East Fife one and that's with far better Hearts teams than the current one. 

[scott herbertson]

Good result, mixed performance. Happy enough with the game (I enjoyed it as well, thought it was a good contest between two teams both trying to win)

 

Some people seem surprised that's the way it went - past history would say we did better than we usually do against lower league teams away when we replace half the team with second stringers.

 

Before the game I said on the PPV thread "watch(ed) the highlights of their game last week against Dumbarton - they play some neat stuff and tried to attack. Could be a high scoring game". So I was neither surprised or disappointed.

 

 

[Boof]

17 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

As for your first sentence. Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. The first time  is tragedy, the second farce.

Attributed to Hegel or Marx or both but one of my favourite quotes!

 

George Santayana, I believe.

 

And to keep it on topic...watched the game, seemed to make things hard for ourselves - well, East Fife contributed a bit too. Happy to get away with a win, 3 points and no serious injuries.

[Francis Albert]

5 hours ago, Boof said:

 

George Santayana, I believe.

 

And to keep it on topic...watched the game, seemed to make things hard for ourselves - well, East Fife contributed a bit too. Happy to get away with a win, 3 points and no serious injuries.

I have seen it attributed to Santayana before.

 

But Karl Marx wrote "Hegel says somewhere that all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce".

 

In a book about Napoleon published in 1852, 10 years before Santayana was born.

 

So I will stick with my Hegel/Marx theory. 

 

Anyway back to topic if anyone has any more to say on topic!

[Newton51]

On 11/11/2020 at 15:01, jambonian said:

 

Morrison like so many players that've came through our youth system has found his level. The majority that we produce have careers in lower leagues. They reach a certain level and development stops at Hearts. We've barely made much money in transfers over the last few years from most of them, the whole idea of a youth system. Matters not a jot that he scored two goals last night, he couldn't score in the Premier or even make regular decent crosses into the box, always having to turn back on himself and passing backwards or side-wards. Moore was looking promising under Stendel, now he's back to square one. Henderson looks like just another player we've produced for lower league teams and both will likely drop down in their career. Add in Cochrane and McDonald to the ever growing list as well.

Never understood the Frear signing. Is one or two good games for Motherwell a few years back all it takes to attract Hearts these days? If it is and that's the standard we're setting ourselves then we are all in for many years of disappointment to come. 

The game last night, disappointing. Taking away the two goals we got before half the players had even touched the ball we (including time added on at the end) had an almost full 90 minutes still to go. Only one more goal scored is pretty pathetic, especially as they scored two and i was told had a penalty claim or two turned down and a couple more chances. What was that all about? Only one more goal? Not expecting to go out and win 6/7-0 or whatever but the game was there to be controlled. Berra being back won't have helped with his famous punt up the park hoof-ball speciality but even so, i don't think it's too much of an ask to get another 2/3 goals within a 90 minute period against that level of player. Least we won, just.

New contract for Morrison today. Frear starts again tonight and there is no way that he is a better player 

[jambonian]

17 hours ago, Newton51 said:

New contract for Morrison today. Frear starts again tonight and there is no way that he is a better player 

 

Morrison and Frear will have their careers down the leagues. Morrison isn't any better or worse than Frear.

Going back to the signing of Frear....why has Moore dropped out the picture? He started turning it around under Stendel then bang, no sign off him now. I'm not saying he would've continued his improvement but when you look at Frear, you do wonder what has gone wrong here.

[Newton51]

33 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

Morrison and Frear will have their careers down the leagues. Morrison isn't any better or worse than Frear.

Going back to the signing of Frear....why has Moore dropped out the picture? He started turning it around under Stendel then bang, no sign off him now. I'm not saying he would've continued his improvement but when you look at Frear, you do wonder what has gone wrong here.

I agree that Moore should be ahead of frear. Also been really disappointed with Roberts so far