Robbie Neilson

[julienbrellier]

Weird time to start this thread. There's been zero negativity towards him this time around. He's clearly improved us and everybody has witnessed what happened after he left last time, including those who were critical of him.

 

Support as united as it's ever been. But then that would get under your skin wouldn't it. Away back to your tinpot club bud.

[Dia Liom]

2 hours ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

I dont normally bite to a FNP but last time after we won the championship, we changed our system after going a goal up and stated to defend way too deep, the 2-2 game was a prime example, so was the falkirk game.  And no I did not make out we were lucky, as Dundee did not have 2 goals in them,   What I am saying is we came out the second half, JOB done, we need to start better in the second half.  The proof in that pudding is a plane with a banner and a fan base split down the middle.

 

What I am guitly of is wanting us to be more ruthless, like the Cowden game,  6 was just not enough,  I think we had a gear or 2 to go up and perhaps the lack of fans helped that

 

And a word of advice you dont know what level any of us played football at, as a newbie you changed a debating point to score a cheap point by making out you know better because you played the game.  If you had played the game then you would know, very few players have the brains to change a plug, so dont use it to belittle us mere mortals as unless you have a world cup winners medal, I dont care!!!!!!

 

The Cowden 10-0 game?  For a start we won't often play against such poor opposition. Secondly the game, after a slow start with not many chances, opened up perfectly for us as cowden had someone sent off.  Lastly, how often do teams win league games by 10 goals?  You would honestly rather a manager that said, 'I want us to win by 10 goals', than Robbie?  The key to winning the dundee game (by 4 goals!) was to be pragmatic, and not to go all out attack.

 

It's interesting that you put much of our second half performance down to fate, while most people saw the tactical switch as being critical.  Robbie spoke after the game and commented on dundee going 'gung ho'.  Their approach was always going to result in some chances for them, at the same time opening up opportunities for us on the break - we changed shape and won by 4 goals.  Saying we came out thinking 'job done' is absurd! 

[jambonian]

On 17/10/2020 at 10:13, Jambo in Bathgate said:

And look what happened to us after he left. Decline! 

 

That wasn't the fault of Neilson leaving, that was the fault of Mr Levein not bringing in an experienced manager. If he had and we carried on, Neilson leaving probably wouldn't have even been an issue. 

Winning the Championship was great, absolutely. Neilson wanted to try his luck down south. Maybe, looking back, he should've waited until a much better club came in for him instead of jumping ship at the first club to drop their drawers. I feel he wanted out for two reasons...one being he wanted away from Levein's influence and secondly, he thought he had taken Hearts as far as he could at the time. 

Folk tend to forget the amount of points we were dropping late in games through poor substitutions, taking off the out-ball player and bringing on more defensive types to try and keep what he had rather than go for another goal and create some breathing space. Doing this encouraged opponents to keep attacking as when the ball broke from the box there was rarely anyone in the middle of the park to take the ball for a walk away from the danger areas. Someone mentioned the Hibs Cup-Tie...that's a good example. Eight minutes to go, 2-0 up and we were desperate for the clock to run down. It happened in a few league games as well but that game is obviously the more higher profile.

Anyway it's in the past now. Four years on, Levein's out the door and he has much more experience as a manager. I did find it strange that as soon as Levein was known to be out the door Robbie rocked up at Tynie so quickly without anyone knowing, including media and Dundee Utd. All seemed a bit cloak and dagger. One minute he's preparing Dundee Utd for the Premier the next he's signed on the dotted line which surprised all of us. Neilson will get the backing of the majority of fans throughout the season. Whether that still remains if/when we're back in the Premier is another story altogether.

Edited October 19, 2020 by jambonian

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Under Burley we tended to do **** all in the second half.

[Hagar the Horrible]

11 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

 

The Cowden 10-0 game?  For a start we won't often play against such poor opposition. Secondly the game, after a slow start with not many chances, opened up perfectly for us as cowden had someone sent off.  Lastly, how often do teams win league games by 10 goals?  You would honestly rather a manager that said, 'I want us to win by 10 goals', than Robbie?  The key to winning the dundee game (by 4 goals!) was to be pragmatic, and not to go all out attack.

 

It's interesting that you put much of our second half performance down to fate, while most people saw the tactical switch as being critical.  Robbie spoke after the game and commented on dundee going 'gung ho'.  Their approach was always going to result in some chances for them, at the same time opening up opportunities for us on the break - we changed shape and won by 4 goals.  Saying we came out thinking 'job done' is absurd! 

I based my arguement on past games with Robbie and perhaps unfairly influenced by CL, that at a certain point, we go all defensive and look to hold on, rather than keep pressing, Robbie has us fitter than everybody else which is why I am bemused by this approach he did take.  The second half it did look that way that he was going to do this, but he did change  shape and it paid off big style.

 

I am going to retract the fate statement, as I have no earthy reason why I said that, Fate had naff all to do with it, it was down to better players playing better football.  I think we should have defended higher up the park when they were on top thats all. 

 

I saw the switch as being critical, but it could have been earlier, for no other reason than I did not like sitting on the edge of my seat. I just hope I am wrong and Robbie's game managment has improved, I dont think the RN/CL partnership understood that.  I just dont ever want to see the 2-2 Hibs game again.  There was just no need to hang on like grim death when they offered  nothing at thaty point.

 

As for winning by goal diff, I think this might be an issue until we open up a gap, if the league gets called early

[Frank Sidebottom]

On 17/10/2020 at 10:15, RustyRightPeg said:

Genuinely believe people will never forgive him for the Hibs 2-2 at Tynecastle.

 

Personally delighted he chose to come back.

The “moneyspinner” comment hardly helped  in addition to the insipid performance in the replay, although that was nothing compared to the farce under Cathro. 

[Nookie Bear]

I’ll judge my Hearts managers on top level games, if it’s all the same to you. 
 

And Robbie’s record stands up well in that regard. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

I reckon Robbie Neilson can be our Derek Mcinnes over the next 5 years. 

 

Regain our third spot, then cement us there, then go after the top 2. This season is just pre season training for us IMO. The rebuild is less extensive than last time in this division,  when a lot of us thought we’d be in a closer title race with Rangers but they couldn’t keep up. They had a lot more money than us as well. 

 

As for the cups, Neilson will bag something at some point. He did it as a player, he’ll do it again as a manager. The best thing for him and for all of us is to deliver an underdog Hearts win our upcoming fixture at Hampden. 
 

 

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

They did tire at that point, and class is class after all! and its a mute point as my fears  did not happen, but I am glad we did not find out what would have happened in the last quarter if they pulled another back.  I am being over critical I know that, and worrying about a what if?  But that game has gone now, and I wnat to worry about the remaining 26 games, and how we will react if we go a goal down.  At some point we will give somebody a real doing I can feel it

Dundee aren't shite and I'd expect them to be our nearest challengers.

6 (SIX) is a doing, McPake was broken after the match  

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I reckon Robbie Neilson can be our Derek Mcinnes over the next 5 years. 

 

Regain our third spot, then cement us there, then go after the top 2. This season is just pre season training for us IMO. The rebuild is less extensive than last time in this division,  when a lot of us thought we’d be in a closer title race with Rangers but they couldn’t keep up. They had a lot more money than us as well. 

 

As for the cups, Neilson will bag something at some point. He did it as a player, he’ll do it again as a manager. The best thing for him and for all of us is to deliver an underdog Hearts win our upcoming fixture at Hampden. 
 

 

 

 

100%

He was on course for that first time I believe. 

 

 

[Weakened Offender]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

100%

He was on course for that first time I believe. 

 

 

 

Without doubt. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

Dundee aren't shite and I'd expect them to be our nearest challengers.

6 (SIX) is a doing, McPake was broken after the match  

As well as that they did think they were in it I suppose only for that hope to be crushed.  I hope it does affect them badly

 

Hopefuly we have six points before they play Morton

[Rudy T]

4 hours ago, jambonian said:

 

That wasn't the fault of Neilson leaving, that was the fault of Mr Levein not bringing in an experienced manager. If he had and we carried on, Neilson leaving probably wouldn't have even been an issue. 

Winning the Championship was great, absolutely. Neilson wanted to try his luck down south. Maybe, looking back, he should've waited until a much better club came in for him instead of jumping ship at the first club to drop their drawers. I feel he wanted out for two reasons...one being he wanted away from Levein's influence and secondly, he thought he had taken Hearts as far as he could at the time. 

Folk tend to forget the amount of points we were dropping late in games through poor substitutions, taking off the out-ball player and bringing on more defensive types to try and keep what he had rather than go for another goal and create some breathing space. Doing this encouraged opponents to keep attacking as when the ball broke from the box there was rarely anyone in the middle of the park to take the ball for a walk away from the danger areas. Someone mentioned the Hibs Cup-Tie...that's a good example. Eight minutes to go, 2-0 up and we were desperate for the clock to run down. It happened in a few league games as well but that game is obviously the more higher profile.

Anyway it's in the past now. Four years on, Levein's out the door and he has much more experience as a manager. I did find it strange that as soon as Levein was known to be out the door Robbie rocked up at Tynie so quickly without anyone knowing, including media and Dundee Utd. All seemed a bit cloak and dagger. One minute he's preparing Dundee Utd for the Premier the next he's signed on the dotted line which surprised all of us. Neilson will get the backing of the majority of fans throughout the season. Whether that still remains if/when we're back in the Premier is another story altogether.

 

Perhaps he thought he'd taken us as far as he could because Dick heads were flying planes with Phoodle out banners, wtf that means I still don't know.

 

He had us playing good football before he left folk seem to have glossed over that. IMO CL had far too much influence on Neilsons tactics at times early in the prem campaign, once RNs confidence was up he started to play it his way.

 

Why would fans not back him him the Prem, I don't understand what that's based on?

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, jambonian said:

 

That wasn't the fault of Neilson leaving, that was the fault of Mr Levein not bringing in an experienced manager. If he had and we carried on, Neilson leaving probably wouldn't have even been an issue. 

Winning the Championship was great, absolutely. Neilson wanted to try his luck down south. Maybe, looking back, he should've waited until a much better club came in for him instead of jumping ship at the first club to drop their drawers. I feel he wanted out for two reasons...one being he wanted away from Levein's influence and secondly, he thought he had taken Hearts as far as he could at the time. 

Folk tend to forget the amount of points we were dropping late in games through poor substitutions, taking off the out-ball player and bringing on more defensive types to try and keep what he had rather than go for another goal and create some breathing space. Doing this encouraged opponents to keep attacking as when the ball broke from the box there was rarely anyone in the middle of the park to take the ball for a walk away from the danger areas. Someone mentioned the Hibs Cup-Tie...that's a good example. Eight minutes to go, 2-0 up and we were desperate for the clock to run down. It happened in a few league games as well but that game is obviously the more higher profile.

Anyway it's in the past now. Four years on, Levein's out the door and he has much more experience as a manager. I did find it strange that as soon as Levein was known to be out the door Robbie rocked up at Tynie so quickly without anyone knowing, including media and Dundee Utd. All seemed a bit cloak and dagger. One minute he's preparing Dundee Utd for the Premier the next he's signed on the dotted line which surprised all of us. Neilson will get the backing of the majority of fans throughout the season. Whether that still remains if/when we're back in the Premier is another story altogether.

 

Disagree with just about all that post. 

 

Well thought out but absolute mince from start to finish. 

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

 

3 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I reckon Robbie Neilson can be our Derek Mcinnes over the next 5 years. 

 

Regain our third spot, then cement us there, then go after the top 2. This season is just pre season training for us IMO. The rebuild is less extensive than last time in this division,  when a lot of us thought we’d be in a closer title race with Rangers but they couldn’t keep up. They had a lot more money than us as well. 

 

As for the cups, Neilson will bag something at some point. He did it as a player, he’ll do it again as a manager. The best thing for him and for all of us is to deliver an underdog Hearts win our upcoming fixture at Hampden. 
 

 

 

 

Robbie's due a break in the cups. In the 5 cups he competed in he got Celtic (3 times!), Hibs, St Johnstone, Killie and Aberdeen in early (QF or earlier) rounds. He didn't have the easier early rounds that have traditionally launched our cup winning campaigns, allowing us to build momentum. Getting Celtic (twice) and Aberdeen in the very first round of 3 cups was incredibly bad luck, even if he did beat Aberdeen.

[Hackney Hearts]

1 hour ago, Frank Sidebottom said:

The “moneyspinner” comment hardly helped 

 

Will never understand why this went down so badly. It was a black joke. He was hurting like everyone else - do you want the opposition enjoying you talking about how gutted they've made you feel? Or do you pretend to take a positive and not give them the satisfaction?

I don't see the problem. It's the sort of thing I'd say, to cheer myself up. 

The only crime was losing the replay - if we'd won that, the comment would have quickly been forgotten (or even celebrated).

[Rudy T]

27 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Will never understand why this went down so badly. It was a black joke. He was hurting like everyone else - do you want the opposition enjoying you talking about how gutted they've made you feel? Or do you pretend to take a positive and not give them the satisfaction?

I don't see the problem. It's the sort of thing I'd say, to cheer myself up. 

The only crime was losing the replay - if we'd won that, the comment would have quickly been forgotten (or even celebrated).

 

lets just hope we smash them at Hampden and maybe this shite can be forgotten by the majority who still seem to have an issue with it. There appears to be others who have a more twisted hatred for him who can bolt as far as I'm concerned.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Rudy T

[Locky]

On 17/10/2020 at 10:54, tartofmidlothian said:

 

Agreed.

 

What's also telling is when you compare his spell with Lennon's time at Hibs.

 

Neilson 

Win ratio: 58.5%

Won the Championship with 91 points, a record, while up against Rangers and Hibs.

First season back in the top league, finished 3rd.

Left for England when we were in 2nd place.

Low point was being knocked out of the Scottish Cup by Hibs.

Second round of European qualifying.

 

Lennon

Win ratio: 47.97%

Won the Championship with 71 points, twenty off the record, while up against Dundee United.

First season back in the top league, finished 4th.

Left for Celtic when Hibs were in 7th.

Got knocked out of the Scottish Cup by Hearts.

Third round of European qualifying.

 

Lennon's European finish is the only area where Neilson didn't do comfortably better than him.

I'd say give credit to Lennon for his Euro results at Hibs. As a Championship side, they took Brondby to penalties which was decent, and as you mentioned, got them to the third Euro qualifying round, beating a decent Greek team along the way, and giving a reasonably decent account of themselves against a strong Molde side. Our 16/17 Euro 'run' was a shocker. Up until that point, I was always proud of the fact that we were probably the only Scottish club who hadn't totally made an arse of ourselves in Europe. We made a bit of a meal of it against a rank Estonian side and ****ed it against some mob from Malta. That said, just getting to Europe so early was remarkable enough.

 

We've thankfully became a bit of a cup team once again, getting to the semi's of both cups, the last 2 seasons running. Not expecting that to happen every year, or even this season as we are a Championship team, but I'd like to see him keep that up, and hopefully bring us some silverware. I was going to say that Neilson's cup record was shambolic too, but upon reflection, that would be wholly unfair. We drew Celtic early in both cups in 2014/15, and again in the League Cup QF's in 15/16. That Hibs defeat was sore to take, especially when it meant they went on to win it, but these things happen I guess. St Johnstone then becomes his only real shite result in the cups. (Not including the Petrofac because we clearly weren't that interested in it anyway)

Edited October 19, 2020 by Locky

[Dia Liom]

8 hours ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

I based my arguement on past games with Robbie and perhaps unfairly influenced by CL, that at a certain point, we go all defensive and look to hold on, rather than keep pressing, Robbie has us fitter than everybody else which is why I am bemused by this approach he did take.  The second half it did look that way that he was going to do this, but he did change  shape and it paid off big style.

 

I am going to retract the fate statement, as I have no earthy reason why I said that, Fate had naff all to do with it, it was down to better players playing better football.  I think we should have defended higher up the park when they were on top thats all. 

 

I saw the switch as being critical, but it could have been earlier, for no other reason than I did not like sitting on the edge of my seat. I just hope I am wrong and Robbie's game managment has improved, I dont think the RN/CL partnership understood that.  I just dont ever want to see the 2-2 Hibs game again.  There was just no need to hang on like grim death when they offered  nothing at thaty point.

 

As for winning by goal diff, I think this might be an issue until we open up a gap, if the league gets called early

 

Fair enough.  I recall us being a bit strange in Robbie's first crack at the premier league.  We swung from being very attacking to very cautious - we'd be playing nice football and winning games, then if we took a few sore defeats Robbie would focus on not conceding, and things would generally improve.  Also remember us coming back to draw quite a few highscoring games, so he is not afraid of going more attacking 

 

The hibs game was bad and I see how you can criticise the tactics. Fair to say that fate had a hand that day too, think we'd normally have seen it out, and the replay was also pretty unlucky for us. 

 

Anyway, onwards and upwards. I agree with others here that he seems a lot more assured, confident than last time.. and he wasn't bad then. 👍

[jambonian]

21 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

Perhaps he thought he'd taken us as far as he could because Dick heads were flying planes with Phoodle out banners, wtf that means I still don't know.

 

He had us playing good football before he left folk seem to have glossed over that. IMO CL had far too much influence on Neilsons tactics at times early in the prem campaign, once RNs confidence was up he started to play it his way.

 

Why would fans not back him him the Prem, I don't understand what that's based on?

 

If Neilson left because of a daft plane incident then that doesn't say much for his character. Surely he would want to stay and stick it right up the plane people? I know I would.

I agree that i also don't know what the "phoodle" thing was all about either. I thought the whole plane incident and Phoodle stuff was pretty ridiculous and embarrassing to be honest. I would also agree that IMO CL had too much influence which is probably, as i said, one of the reasons why he walked at the first opportunity.

As for the fans backing him in the Premier IF we get back up...it's based on the way some fans turned against him last time round. They will if he sticks with a certain style/type of play and not change to crab football. Side to side, back to goalie sort of stuff. The fans didn't like that the last time if you remember. Again though, that could've been from other influences and as I said, he's a more experienced manager now than he was then.

 

21 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Disagree with just about all that post. 

 

Well thought out but absolute mince from start to finish. 

 

 

 

I wouldn't expect anything less from you to be honest.

Some fans tend to forget (or don't want to remember) some of the negative stuff that was happening on the pitch for a wee while before Robbie left. What are some of those sayings again...can't see past their maroon-tinted glasses, cant see the wood for the trees, having their head in the sand? I won't re-post the points I already made other than we were losing too many late goals in certain games. I think that's what turned some fans against him. I, (for the record) was not one of those fans. It was hearing what plenty other fans said as they walked out of Tynie at the end of the games, furious that we lost points late on again, and also what was posted on social media. Not my fault what some fans thought. They would say stuff about terrible substitutions or not finishing some teams off etc.. you know the sort I mean, no doubt heard a lot of it yourself.  Anyway, again like I've already said, we move on, it's four years later. Onwards and upwards!

Edited October 20, 2020 by jambonian

[Guest ToqueJambo]

10 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

 

I wouldn't expect anything less from you to be honest.

Some fans tend to forget (or don't want to remember) some of the negative stuff that was happening on the pitch for a wee while before Robbie left. What are some of those sayings again...can't see past their maroon-tinted glasses, cant see the wood for the trees, having their head in the sand? I won't re-post the points I already made other than we were losing too many late goals in certain games. I think that's what turned some fans against him. I, (for the record) was not one of those fans. It was hearing what plenty other fans said as they walked out of Tynie at the end of the games and also what was posted on social media. Not my fault what some fans thought. They would say stuff about terrible substitutions or not finishing some teams off etc.. you know the sort I mean, no doubt heard a lot of it yourself.  Anyway, again like I've already said, we move on, it's four years later. Onwards and upwards!

 

 

Do you think maybe these fans have had a rethink about what they want from a manager? Since Neilson we've had a very experienced manager in Levein who wants to win games and doesn't care that much how but who also started tinkering and got sidetracked by player projects, a completely inexperienced but very highly rated head coach who wanted to play a specific brand of football, and someone with a bit of experience and a reputation for attacking football who was also tied to a particular style of football he wanted.

 

Unlike probably all 3 of Levein, Cathro and Stendel, Neilson has never set himself up as some sort of football guru with some sort of master plan to play in a. particular style. IMO Cathro and Stendel in particular put their own personal football ambitions ahead of the team's. There's no other explanation for sticking to a style so dogmatically when it obviously wasn't working. He simply wants put out winning teams and achieve the targets he's given, and he's mostly very good at it so far. Even in England, where clubs change their managers like their socks, he lasted longer than most of MK Dons managers in their short history. People expecting Neilson's teams to win by 3 goals and dominate for 90 mins even in the Championship forget there are two teams in every match and often our opposition isn't interested in playing football against us.

Edited October 20, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Kiwidoug]

Banging 6 past Dundee (of all clubs) was a terrific start to the league campaign.  We should all be 100% behind him.

 

I certainly won't turn on him if we lose this mickey mouse covid semi final as the odds are stacked against us.  

 

Having said that, it's only Hibs so we should be fine.  

[jambonian]

 

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Do you think maybe these fans have had a rethink about what they want from a manager? Since Neilson we've had a very experienced manager in Levein who wants to win games and doesn't care that much how but who also started tinkering and got sidetracked by player projects, a completely inexperienced but very highly rated head coach who wanted to play a specific brand of football, and someone with a bit of experience and a reputation for attacking football who was also tied to a particular style of football he wanted.

 

Unlike probably all 3 of Levein, Cathro and Stendel, Neilson has never set himself up as some sort of football guru with some sort of master plan to play in a. particular style. He simply wants put out winning teams and achieve the targets he's given, and he's mostly very good at it so far. Even in England, where clubs change their managers like their socks, he lasted longer than most of MK Dons managers in their short history. People expecting Neilson's teams to win by 3 goals and dominate for 90 mins even in the Championship forget there are two teams in every match and often our opposition isn't interested in playing football against us.

 

Maybe, after what has happened since Neilson left, they have had a re-think, I couldn't possibly say. 

I still think that had a good manager been brought in when Neilson did leave we wouldn't have been too bothered about it if we had carried on improving. It's easy with hindsight to blame fans as some do on here. If we could've looked into the future they may well have toned it all down a bit. I guess some fans were disappointed he left, I get that but (at the time) there were just as many who weren't too bothered and hoped we'd carry on improving under someone else. iIt didn't happen.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, jambonian said:

 

 

Maybe, after what has happened since Neilson left, they have had a re-think, I couldn't possibly say. 

I still think that had a good manager been brought in when Neilson did leave we wouldn't have been too bothered about it if we had carried on improving. It's easy with hindsight to blame fans as some do on here. If we could've looked into the future they may well have toned it all down a bit. I guess some fans were disappointed he left, I get that but (at the time) there were just as many who weren't too bothered and hoped we'd carry on improving under someone else. iIt didn't happen.

 

Equally there were others who saw what we had in Neilson.

[jambonian]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Equally there were others who saw what we had in Neilson.

 

Maybe so, but as I said regarding hindsight...it is a wonderful thing. And let's face it, no-one could've predicted what was to happen in the next few years.

 

[jambonian]

12 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Banging 6 past Dundee (of all clubs) was a terrific start to the league campaign.  We should all be 100% behind him.

 

I certainly won't turn on him if we lose this mickey mouse covid semi final as the odds are stacked against us.  

 

Having said that, it's only Hibs so we should be fine.  

 

To be honest this upcoming semi shouldn't even be taking place. The season was cancelled.

As for your last sentence....

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

Maybe so, but as I said regarding hindsight...it is a wonderful thing. And let's face it, no-one could've predicted what was to happen in the next few years.

 

 

The thing is Neilson was so obviously doing a great job that it's not hindsight for many people. We rarely dominate a season like we did in a very tough Championship season, and we rarely get two 3rds in a row and that's where we were heading, with a manager still learning his trade who could only get better. The attitude of some fans to Neilson is still one of the weirdest things I've ever seen while following Hearts.

Edited October 20, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[jambonian]

12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The thing is Neilson was so obviously doing a great job that it's not hindsight for many people. We rarely dominate a season like we did in a very tough Championship season, and we rarely get two 3rds in a row and that's where we were heading, with a manager still learning his trade who could only get better.

 

As I said...in hindsight some of those that turned against him have maybe had a re-think, who knows. It's not for me to say.

It is important to remember though that when MK Dons came calling, Neilson made it HIS decision to leave. As far as i'm aware Levein wasn't showing him the door or he wasn't under threat of a sacking. It doesn't matter how good a job he was doing, we could've been sitting top of the League, HE chose to leave so it doesn't really matter what anyone thought, good job or bad. He obviously fancied a crack down south. That's fair enough and maybe if he had waited until a better club came in then it might've worked out better for him down there. Doesn't matter anymore, it's in the past.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

 

As I said...in hindsight some of those that turned against him have maybe had a re-think, who knows. It's not for me to say.

It is important to remember though that when MK Dons came calling, Neilson made it HIS decision to leave. As far as i'm aware Levein wasn't showing him the door or he wasn't under threat of a sacking. It doesn't matter how good a job he was doing, we could've been sitting top of the League, HE chose to leave so it doesn't really matter what anyone thought, good job or bad. He obviously fancied a crack down south. That's fair enough and maybe if he had waited until a better club came in then it might've worked out better for him down there. Doesn't matter anymore, it's in the past.

 

I'm convinced Levein could have done more to get Robbie to stay. I honestly think he saw this as his chance to get Cathro in, which was always his long term plan/project. That was the big difference between Levein I and Levein II. Levein I focused on getting results and making Hearts a force on the pitch. Levein II was distracted by multiple roles and projects.

[Rudy T]

4 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Do you think maybe these fans have had a rethink about what they want from a manager? Since Neilson we've had a very experienced manager in Levein who wants to win games and doesn't care that much how but who also started tinkering and got sidetracked by player projects, a completely inexperienced but very highly rated head coach who wanted to play a specific brand of football, and someone with a bit of experience and a reputation for attacking football who was also tied to a particular style of football he wanted.

 

Unlike probably all 3 of Levein, Cathro and Stendel, Neilson has never set himself up as some sort of football guru with some sort of master plan to play in a. particular style. IMO Cathro and Stendel in particular put their own personal football ambitions ahead of the team's. There's no other explanation for sticking to a style so dogmatically when it obviously wasn't working. He simply wants put out winning teams and achieve the targets he's given, and he's mostly very good at it so far. Even in England, where clubs change their managers like their socks, he lasted longer than most of MK Dons managers in their short history. People expecting Neilson's teams to win by 3 goals and dominate for 90 mins even in the Championship forget there are two teams in every match and often our opposition isn't interested in playing football against us.

 

I think this is bang on the money. I was critical at times of Neilsons style in certain games but I've followed Hearts long enough to know a manager who gets us near the top of the league is to be admired not run out of town. 

 

It was was a very strange time, we had very nearly seen the end of Heart of Midlothian as we knew it, managed to pick ourselves of the floor with an incredible effort from the fans and yet when we returned to the Prem there became a weird sense of entitlement that we should be top of the league playing Barcelona style football... something we'd never achieved previously. 

 

I think the EPL has a lot to answer for we play in the SPFL any outbreak of football is a bonus, just get stuck in and win is what we get from players who are being paid less than what an EPL earns in a week.

[Lonewolflins]

On 19/10/2020 at 10:28, OmiyaHearts said:

People still don't forgive a cup winning captain & club legend for something irrelevant that happened 13 years ago (like it evens needs forgiveness).

 

So you can guarantee a section of our 'support' won't ever forgive Neilson for the 2-2.

Correct 

[And he’s not praying!]

He wins football matches.

[RussAsia]

On 17/10/2020 at 16:03, And he’s not praying! said:

First spell - Played 106. Won 62. Drawn 22. Lost 22. Win ratio - 58.5%. Won the Championship at an absolute canter. Left for MK Dons with us 2nd in the Premiership.
 

This time round - Played 4. Won 4. Drawn 0. Lost 0. Win ratio - 100%.

 

From reading this board lately there appears to be some who are unwilling to back him or trust him completely which I find bizarre. Some even appear to pine for Daniel Stendel, which given his rotten record I find even more bizarre.

 

So what is it? That he isn’t foreign? That he’s quietly spoken, that his team once let a 2 goal lead slip to hibs?

 

As a Hearts fan I want Hearts to win football matches. Robbie Neilson at Hearts, as the above shows, wins football matches.

 

I hope he’s here for years to come. ♥️

It's not just he lost a 2 goal half time lead to a Hibs team in a lower division. He then sent a team out that lost the following game to a Hibs team in a lower division. 

 

If the fact he can beat Cowdenbeath impresses you then it says more about you..

 

Let me ask you this. Can you name another Hearts manager who has lost or drawn a derby against a Hibs team playing in a lower division? Or let me double down and ask if a Hibs manager has ever lost a game against a Hearts team from a lower division. Or is he the only person with that stat?

[tynewater]

You need to get over your obsession with games against Hibs, it's bonkers. Take a step back and try and look at it rationally. There's not that much between us and Hibs, and Aberdeen for that matter. They are going to win some games against us, to expect anything else is daft. Lady luck shined on them in a couple of games against us in the cup a few years ago, shit happens. To make a lifetime vendetta against Robbie because of this is just silly. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

48 minutes ago, RussAsia said:

It's not just he lost a 2 goal half time lead to a Hibs team in a lower division. He then sent a team out that lost the following game to a Hibs team in a lower division. 

 

If the fact he can beat Cowdenbeath impresses you then it says more about you..

 

Let me ask you this. Can you name another Hearts manager who has lost or drawn a derby against a Hibs team playing in a lower division? Or let me double down and ask if a Hibs manager has ever lost a game against a Hearts team from a lower division. Or is he the only person with that stat?

 

Hibs were the same kind of lower league team then that we are this season - a lower league team with a mid-Premiership squad, manager and wage bill. So just as we have every chance of winning the derby coming up, they had every chance of winning that cup tie. In any case, the cup is all about lower league teams shocking premiership teams. It happens on multiple occasions every season. It's really not worth hounding the manager involved forever.

Edited October 23, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[RussAsia]

10 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Hibs were the same kind of lower league team then that we are this season - a lower league team with a mid-Premiership squad, manager and wage bill. So just as we have every chance of winning the derby coming up, they had every chance of winning that cup tie. In any case, the cup is all about lower league teams shocking premiership teams. It happens on multiple occasions every season. It's really not worth hounding the manager involved forever.

 

We are nowhere near the strength this season that we are when we are in the top league. Hence why players such as Olly Lee have been welcomed back into the fold when previously they weren't good enough.

 

However I'm happy to wait until next weekends match is over and we can come back to this then. I'll say this, with almost every Hearts manager good or bad I've always been confident going into derbies. Neilson since he has been Hearts manager has set us out terribly in almost every derby we have played. Fingers crossed he has learned something since he's been away.

[WASTREL]

On 19/10/2020 at 13:28, jambonian said:

 

That wasn't the fault of Neilson leaving, that was the fault of Mr Levein not bringing in an experienced manager. If he had and we carried on, Neilson leaving probably wouldn't have even been an issue. 

Winning the Championship was great, absolutely. Neilson wanted to try his luck down south. Maybe, looking back, he should've waited until a much better club came in for him instead of jumping ship at the first club to drop their drawers. I feel he wanted out for two reasons...one being he wanted away from Levein's influence and secondly, he thought he had taken Hearts as far as he could at the time. 

Folk tend to forget the amount of points we were dropping late in games through poor substitutions, taking off the out-ball player and bringing on more defensive types to try and keep what he had rather than go for another goal and create some breathing space. Doing this encouraged opponents to keep attacking as when the ball broke from the box there was rarely anyone in the middle of the park to take the ball for a walk away from the danger areas. Someone mentioned the Hibs Cup-Tie...that's a good example. Eight minutes to go, 2-0 up and we were desperate for the clock to run down. It happened in a few league games as well but that game is obviously the more higher profile.

Anyway it's in the past now. Four years on, Levein's out the door and he has much more experience as a manager. I did find it strange that as soon as Levein was known to be out the door Robbie rocked up at Tynie so quickly without anyone knowing, including media and Dundee Utd. All seemed a bit cloak and dagger. One minute he's preparing Dundee Utd for the Premier the next he's signed on the dotted line which surprised all of us. Neilson will get the backing of the majority of fans throughout the season. Whether that still remains if/when we're back in the Premier is another story altogether.

Totally 100% on your first point and not just influence but interference ... not correct on your second hence how quick he came back when CL had  effectively gone.  He has ambitions and unfinished business at Hearts. 

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, Disco Ball said:

Totally 100% on your first point and not just influence but interference ... not correct on your second hence how quick he came back when CL had  effectively gone.  He has ambitions and unfinished business at Hearts. 

Agreed, believe he had the chance to return last November but still with a DoF running the show so knocked it back. 

[WASTREL]

19 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Agreed, believe he had the chance to return last November but still with a DoF running the show so knocked it back. 

You are correct but there was still a "its my way or no way" still prevalent with CL very protective of areas of the role so there would never be any  meaningful change until he was out the door.  It had gotten toxic.  

[Bazzas right boot]

12 hours ago, RussAsia said:

It's not just he lost a 2 goal half time lead to a Hibs team in a lower division. He then sent a team out that lost the following game to a Hibs team in a lower division. 

 

If the fact he can beat Cowdenbeath impresses you then it says more about you..

 

Let me ask you this. Can you name another Hearts manager who has lost or drawn a derby against a Hibs team playing in a lower division? Or let me double down and ask if a Hibs manager has ever lost a game against a Hearts team from a lower division. Or is he the only person with that stat?

 

 

Nah, but lots of managers have lost to a lower league team. 

 

Hibs beat 3 top flight teams and rangers beat celtic In the league above them. I wonder if their fans are still greetin about it? 

 

Robbie teams have also beaten hibs, rangers, Aberdeen etc as well as Cowdenbeath. 

 

Theres been about maybe 5 seasons in 150 years were your scenerio was possible so stop being a drama and move on or you'll never enjoy supporting us again. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

54 minutes ago, RussAsia said:

 

We are nowhere near the strength this season that we are when we are in the top league. Hence why players such as Olly Lee have been welcomed back into the fold when previously they weren't good enough.

 

However I'm happy to wait until next weekends match is over and we can come back to this then. I'll say this, with almost every Hearts manager good or bad I've always been confident going into derbies. Neilson since he has been Hearts manager has set us out terribly in almost every derby we have played. Fingers crossed he has learned something since he's been away.

 

 

You are obviously ready to go (like many) and beat this drum if we get beat on Saturday. It's quite sad Tbh. 

 

I think we can win on Saturday and will but hibs, like it or not are heavy favourites for a variety of reasons, nothing to do with Robbie having learned since he's been away either. 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

12 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

You are obviously ready to go (like many) and beat this drum if we get beat on Saturday. It's quite sad Tbh. 

 

I think we can win on Saturday and will but hibs, like it or not are heavy favourites for a variety of reasons, nothing to do with Robbie having learned since he's been away either. 

 

 

 

just checking if we get beat next week is anyone allowed to hold neilson to account in any way? - once you’ve made a decision maybe write up a few lines and ask the mods to make it a sticky or something?

 

hibs have been heavy favourites quite a few times over the years but rarely get the job done due to an imbalance in mentality between the teams - as we’ve seen recently Levein could hardly beat anybody bar hibs

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

just checking if we get beat next week is anyone allowed to hold neilson to account in any way? - once you’ve made a decision maybe write up a few lines and ask the mods to make it a sticky or something?

 

hibs have been heavy favourites quite a few times over the years but rarely get the job done due to an imbalance in mentality between the teams - as we’ve seen recently Levein could hardly beat anybody bar hibs

 

 

 

 

 

If you can't see the difference between a normal season and this, then that is your issue. 

 

When have Hibs been as heavy favourites as this? 

I'd say never in my lifetime and I'm 40.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

8 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

If you can't see the difference between a normal season and this, then that is your issue. 

 

When have Hibs been as heavy favourites as this? 

I'd say never in my lifetime and I'm 40.

 

the Gary Locke season and that was only a few years ago

 

lots of times for individual games if you try i’m sure you’ll remember a few

 

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

the Gary Locke season and that was only a few years ago

 

lots of times for individual games if you try i’m sure you’ll remember a few

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gary locked season, maybe. That's one season in 40, but even then given the fact we are a division below and 2 months behind the season starting an argument could be made either way. 

Hibs technically over that season were actually worse than us as well they collected less points over the season iirc, they ended up second bottom, we were bottom. That isn't as big a gulf as now in terms of league status and games played. 

I'd actually say no, never have Hibs been as heavy favourites in my lifetime. 

 

Individual games - never such a difference as this, I can't remember us being a division below them and 2 months behind them league game wise. 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Gary locked season, maybe. That's one season in 40, but even then given the fact we are a division below and 2 months behind the season starting an argument could be made either way. 

Hibs technically over that season were actually worse than us as well they collected less points over the season iirc, they ended up second bottom, we were bottom. That isn't as big a gulf as now in terms of league status and games played. 

I'd actually say no, never have Hibs been as heavy favourites in my lifetime. 

 

Individual games - never such a difference as this, I can't remember us being a division below them and 2 months behind them league game wise. 

 

 

 

thats your opinion mate and you’re very welcome to it 

 

2 posts ago the Gary Locke season was completely forgotten about now it’s being rationalised as not as bad - again you’re welcome to do that

 

You don’t actually know what the gulf is between the teams now in reality just like we didn’t in the Gary Locke season (which turned out not to be as big as thought) yet you’re talking like you do know based on a couple of arbitrary measures which easily can be replaced by other arbitrary measures like first team games played average age ability to make signings etc etc

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

thats your opinion mate and you’re very welcome to it 

 

2 posts ago the Gary Locke season was completely forgotten about now it’s being rationalised as not as bad - again you’re welcome to do that

 

You don’t actually know what the gulf is between the teams now in reality just like we didn’t in the Gary Locke season (which turned out not to be as big as thought) yet you’re talking like you do know based on a couple of arbitrary measures which easily can be replaced by other arbitrary measures like first team games played average age ability to make signings etc etc

 

 

 

 

 

I said Gary locke season could be argued either way. 

If so that is one season in 40. 

The Gary locke season in relation to hibs wasn't bad, the gulf was very small, we were bottom, they ended up second bottom. That is not a big difference  between the teams compared to now. 

 

Either way, right now hibs are heavy favourites

 

The gulf atm is clear, they are 4th in top division having played a quarter of the season, we are 1st in 2nd teir having played 2 games. 

 

If you don't think that makes hibs (outside of Hearts fans) heavy favourites then fair enough. 

I think we'll beat them and think we have a top 6 side on paper but that is based on really nothing but opinion. 

 

Whether Gary lockes Hearts teams were less favourites or not is immaterial ( as I said it could be argued both ways and Likley changed from the 1st to 4th game), either way hibs are heavy favourites for this game, more so than most, if not every game in my lifetime. 

 

Either way, With that in mind folk chapping at the bit to get torn into Robbie if we get beat are dafties. 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I said Gary locke season could be argued either way. 

If so that is one season in 40. 

The Gary locke season in relation to hibs wasn't bad, the gulf was very small, we were bottom, they ended up second bottom. That is not a big difference  between the teams compared to now. 

 

Either way, right now hibs are heavy favourites

 

The gulf atm is clear, they are 4th in top division having played a quarter of the season, we are 1st in 2nd teir having played 2 games. 

 

If you don't think that makes hibs (outside of Hearts fans) heavy favourites then fair enough. 

I think we'll beat them and think we have a top 6 side on paper but that is based on really nothing but opinion. 

 

Whether Gary lockes Hearts teams were less favourites or not is immaterial ( as I said it could be argued both ways and Likley changed from the 1st to 4th game), either way hibs are heavy favourites for this game, more so than most, if not every game in my lifetime. 

 

Either way, With that in mind folk chapping at the bit to get torn into Robbie if we get beat are dafties. 

 

 

 

 

all in your opinion of course

 

can you point out any text in my posts which gives even the very slightest impression that I don’t think hibs are heavy favourites - cheers

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

 

all in your opinion of course

 

can you point out any text in my posts which gives even the very slightest impression that I don’t think hibs are heavy favourites - cheers

 

I never said you didn't say hibs were not heavy favourites. 

 

In the context of holding Robbie "accountable" tho - if we get beat you should remember that.

 

 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I never said you didn't say hibs were not heavy favourites. 

 

In the context of holding Robbie "accountable" tho - if we get beat you should remember that.

 

 

 

 

 

seems strange to use the text “if you don’t think that makes hibs heavy favourites ...”

 

at least we seem to have got to the answer in that people are allowed to hold Robbie accountable and may actually have some relevant points rather than just being “tragic” folk waiting for Robbie to fail against hibs (again)