PACE

[mitch41]

Yes what's the use of having pace if you don't know how best to use it. It may seem obvious but when you have players running at defences or running into space it is imperative that the rest of the team know what balls they need to supply. Over to Robbie to work on this because if we get this right, well you get the idea.

[Perth to Paisley]

I know a Walsall fan who told me Ginelly's feet work faster than his brain.. I didnt see yesterday's game but it sounds like there was some evidence of this yesterday.

 

Explains why is playing st this level.

 

[Last Laff]

Just now, Perth to Paisley said:

I know a Walsall fan who told me Ginelly's feet work faster than his brain.. I didnt see yesterday's game but it sounds like there was some evidence of this yesterday.

 

Explains why is playing st this level.

 

 

That can hopefully be worked on.  That and final ball but all players will still be rusty.  His pace will be used effectively I'm confident of. 

[wavydavy]

12 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Yes what's the use of having pace if you don't know how best to use it. It may seem obvious but when you have players running at defences or running into space it is imperative that the rest of the team know what balls they need to supply. Over to Robbie to work on this because if we get this right, well you get the idea.

 

When you have pace in the wide areas you need a couple of vital things.

 

Accurate Crosses.

 

Target Man.

[kingantti1874]

Well when teams defend in their 18 years line there is no point to pace.. it does mean teams can never ever push too high

[colinmaroon]

Also, the pitch yesterday must have been set at just about the smallest size allowable.

 

Pace is always best utilised on the counterattack and, when you have a team like Cowdenbeath yesterday (and as Robbie has said, we better get used to it) who never cross the half way line except on the counter, there is an absence of room to fully utilise pace.

 

Having said that, it does mean that occasionally, the likes of Ginelly can beat the defender and get a ball across and, I have to agree that the delivery is vital.  Add to that, yesterday there were a couple of decent balls put across but there was a lack of numbers in the box.

[Bazzas right boot]

29 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Well when teams defend in their 18 years line there is no point to pace.. it does mean teams can never ever push too high

 

Quite obvious. 

 

It's like some  folk on here have no idea how football works. It's remarkable. 

[Jambo92]

Ginnelly looks streets ahead of Mulraney, have no doubt he will assist a bucket load once in a settled 11 

[gordiegords]

1 hour ago, Jambo92 said:

Ginnelly looks streets ahead of Mulraney, have no doubt he will assist a bucket load once in a settled 11 

Totally agree, Mulraney and indeed Morrison were very frustrating. 

[upgotheheads]

2 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

Also, the pitch yesterday must have been set at just about the smallest size allowable.

 

Pace is always best utilised on the counterattack and, when you have a team like Cowdenbeath yesterday (and as Robbie has said, we better get used to it) who never cross the half way line except on the counter, there is an absence of room to fully utilise pace.

 

Having said that, it does mean that occasionally, the likes of Ginelly can beat the defender and get a ball across and, I have to agree that the delivery is vital.  Add to that, yesterday there were a couple of decent balls put across but there was a lack of numbers in the box.

 

I think our pitch is that size already, which is why teams coming to Tynecastle find it easy to close us down.

[colinmaroon]

Just now, upgotheheads said:

 

I think our pitch is that size already, which is why teams coming to Tynecastle find it easy to close us down.

 

 

Apart from other obvious reasons, that's why we couldn't break down teams recently and got caught on the break.  Decent goalkeeper and defence and we might have a few 0-0 draws but more likely 1-0 wins.

 

It's no coincidence that the good results we managed last season were against teams that attacked us and, if it wasn't for Pereira, we would have got a win in Perth for example plus.  We would be in the Premiership this season.

[Jambof3tornado]

A 2nd target man striker is missing.

 

I still dont know what sort of striker wighton is, but its not a target man. We put nothing in to his feet yesterday at all.

[Debut 4]

I always think looking up and seeing your options should be a basic for a professional. Yes, ability will vary and some players will never really improve their quality on the ball but It amazes me how many play with their heads down at key moments in a move.
 

This is where scouting needs to be better. I’m not solely picking out Ginnelly(although he does seem to have this problem) for criticism, it’s just a general comment. 
 

It’s getting harder for clubs like Hearts to find the happy medium in transfer targets. 

 

 

[stevie1874]

When are we going to get a wide man with pace that puts the ball past the defender and runs on to it. Everyone we have had always stops short to cross the ball or only uses their pace near the byeline. 

[TyphoonJambo]

3 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

When you have pace in the wide areas you need a couple of vital things.

 

Accurate Crosses.

 

Target Man.

Exactly, how many times was it obvious that there was no target in the box yet the cross still went in? 

Its like, "that's my bit of the brief done, over to you" 

[Jamstomorrow]

2 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Quite obvious. 

 

It's like some  folk on here have no idea how football works. It's remarkable. 

It's quite simple really:  Deprive opposition of the ball.  Ball to foot of own payer,  foot kicks ball,  ball goes in net.  GOAL!   On occasion, foot may be substituted with head.  Thus ball to head,  head to ball, ball in net .  GOAL!    However, this may change in future when heading the ball is not allowed for health and welfare reasons.

[Kidd’s Boots]

It was not only the target in the box that was missing yesterday, but also the late run from deep looking for the cut back. There were 2 or 3 times in the first half Ginnelly was looking for that options but no one was making the run. In fairness, Lee & McGill wouldn't have been the obvious pairing, but we missed Irving or Halliday for that yesterday. Sean Clare will also be missed for that that run this year, scored a couple of crackers from there. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Jamstomorrow said:

It's quite simple really:  Deprive opposition of the ball.  Ball to foot of own payer,  foot kicks ball,  ball goes in net.  GOAL!   On occasion, foot may be substituted with head.  Thus ball to head,  head to ball, ball in net .  GOAL!    However, this may change in future when heading the ball is not allowed for health and welfare reasons.

 

The problem with that is that there are two teams trying to do that and one is trying to stop the other while doing as you say. 

 

I think many on here forget that, hence the slavering across many threads. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Jamstomorrow]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

The problem with that is that there are two teams trying to do that and one is trying to stop the other while doing as you say. 

 

I think many on here forget that, hence the slavering a riss many threads. 

 

 

If we are at Tynecastle, then it is obviously oor ba' and we simply do not let them play with it.

[davie1980]

31 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

A 2nd target man striker is missing.

 

I still dont know what sort of striker wighton is, but its not a target man. We put nothing in to his feet yesterday at all.

 

Do you want us to play with two target men?

[rudi must stay]

4 hours ago, Perth to Paisley said:

I know a Walsall fan who told me Ginelly's feet work faster than his brain.. I didnt see yesterday's game but it sounds like there was some evidence of this yesterday.

 

Explains why is playing st this level.

 

 

I don't see any reason why he's at this level. He is a talent and always wants the ball. Looks like the best player at the club 

[grumpyespana]

32 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

 

Do you want us to play with two target men?

We cannie have that as one may get injured or even the two got a injured lol.

[kingantti1874]

3 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Quite obvious. 

 

It's like some  folk on here have no idea how football works. It's remarkable. 

It is more than clear than more than a handful don’t seem to understand the basics of the game! 

[been here before]

I thought this was posted in the wrong forum and concerned the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

It is more than clear than more than a handful don’t seem to understand the basics of the game! 

 

It was like the argument last season, just press them-aye, but what if they press us.... 

If we struggle v Cowden, then we're gonna struggle against better teams... 

 

It's an eye opener. 

[kingantti1874]

57 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

When are we going to get a wide man with pace that puts the ball past the defender and runs on to it. Everyone we have had always stops short to cross the ball or only uses their pace near the byeline. 

when we play teams who don’t sit in!! .. in the two games we’ve played there has not been any space in behind. The only thing behind the full backs was a brick wall and a main road.. When we play better teams let’s see

Edited October 11, 2020 by kingantti1874

[Russ1977]

We move the ball far to slowly in general. The amount of passes we rolled slowly yesterday where doing my head in. Pace isn’t just about running fast it’s also a lot to do with how quickly you move the ball about. 

[Sarah O]

5 hours ago, Perth to Paisley said:

I know a Walsall fan who told me Ginelly's feet work faster than his brain.. I didnt see yesterday's game but it sounds like there was some evidence of this yesterday.

 

Explains why is playing st this level.

 

So we have Mulraney mark 2?

[stevie1874]

23 minutes ago, Russ1977 said:

We move the ball far to slowly in general. The amount of passes we rolled slowly yesterday where doing my head in. Pace isn’t just about running fast it’s also a lot to do with how quickly you move the ball about. 

I agree to a certain extent, Lee & Irving can Both spray passes, just have to have runners wide ready to go and take a chance over the top. Hibs dare I say play to Boyles strengths giving him a ball to run on to which makes him look far more effective than if every ball was to his feet standing still. We’ve signed a couple of wide men with pace maybe get them turning the defenders running onto balls. 

[kingantti1874]

26 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

So we have Mulraney mark 2?

for **** sake.. the guy was absolutely excellent against ICT.. 

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

for **** sake.. the guy was absolutely excellent against ICT.. 

i thought he was good against ICT. 

[Tokyo Drifter]

I genuinely thought the OP was asking about the Police and Criminal Evidence Act. Or PACE as it's known.

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

i thought he was good against ICT. 

he was very good Dave. The left back had no idea what to do with him, they tried various solutions. Had we taken one of the numerous opportunities he created it would have e been a far less frustrating game

[Sarah O]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

for **** sake.. the guy was absolutely excellent against ICT.. 

I didn't say he wasn't. 

 

I liked Mulraney aswell!

[kingantti1874]

19 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

I didn't say he wasn't. 

 

I liked Mulraney aswell!

 

 Mulraney .. well that’s you and his mum then.. useless shitebag that he was.. with his unbelievably predictable roll over

Edited October 11, 2020 by kingantti1874

[Cruyff]

7 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Well when teams defend in their 18 years line there is no point to pace.. it does mean teams can never ever push too high

I'm not being funny but that is a shite excuse by Neilson.

 

If a team wants to sit in we either have to bring them onto ourselves and counter or, make them press us and play through them.

 

If a Hearts team struggles to do either v part time pish like Cowdenbeath, that's because we're utter keek rather than anything Cowdenbeath are doing. 

[Nookie Bear]

Most players at our level are quick, but it’s pace of thought that counts. 
 

Anticipating quickly, reacting quickly, seeing danger and opportunities quickly and receiving and moving the ball quickly because you know what you want to do with it.

[Pasquale for King]

8 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

Also, the pitch yesterday must have been set at just about the smallest size allowable.

 

Pace is always best utilised on the counterattack and, when you have a team like Cowdenbeath yesterday (and as Robbie has said, we better get used to it) who never cross the half way line except on the counter, there is an absence of room to fully utilise pace.

 

Having said that, it does mean that occasionally, the likes of Ginelly can beat the defender and get a ball across and, I have to agree that the delivery is vital.  Add to that, yesterday there were a couple of decent balls put across but there was a lack of numbers in the box.

I think we need to learn how to draw teams out, the OF have done it to us on numerous occasions. Usually after 60 minutes, back off into your own half and let them pass it about and they get confidence and attack you. It gives you the  room to counter attack, then you have to use the space effectively. 

[OTT]

We're never getting the full package in a player. Ginnelly looks tricky and will probably have enough smarts to do well at this level. Only on loan too, so its not like we need to be looking at him with one eye on next season. 

[Debut 4]

5 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

The problem with that is that there are two teams trying to do that and one is trying to stop the other while doing as you say. 

 

I think many on here forget that, hence the slavering across many threads. 

 

“Football is a simple game, but the hardest thing is playing simple football”...a quote from Johan Cruyff.

 

The first part is something you hear all the time in football supporter circles when talking about football. My Dad used to say it a lot. But it’s often too easily misinterpreted and the last line in the quote from JC says that. 
 

Good players play simple football because they have the ability to do so.  Obviously, the way a manager wants to play too has an effect but mostly picking/buying the right players is the biggest, most important thing before anything else.  We are miles from being where we want to be by Scottish standards and this season will be a bit of a slog watching us, but I think we’ll get there and get the job done this season. 
 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Debut 4

[colinmaroon]

27 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think we need to learn how to draw teams out, the OF have done it to us on numerous occasions. Usually after 60 minutes, back off into your own half and let them pass it about and they get confidence and attack you. It gives you the  room to counter attack, then you have to use the space effectively. 

 

 

And then Levein gets the blame for dropping back and trying to hold on to a 0-0 draw.

[Bazzas right boot]

14 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

And then Levein gets the blame for dropping back and trying to hold on to a 0-0 draw.

 

😂😂😂

[Jambof3tornado]

6 hours ago, davie1980 said:

 

Do you want us to play with two target men?

No, just mean a back up to boyce. The only way I can see wighton working is beside another player where theother player wins the balls and wighton runs off him. Wighton on his own up top is utterly pointless.

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, Cruyff said:

I'm not being funny but that is a shite excuse by Neilson.

 

If a team wants to sit in we either have to bring them onto ourselves and counter or, make them press us and play through them.

 

If a Hearts team struggles to do either v part time pish like Cowdenbeath, that's because we're utter keek rather than anything Cowdenbeath are doing. 

As far as I’m aware Robbie didn’t say it. 
 

it’s a simple fact, you can’t run in behind if there is no room to run in behind.. 

 

im sure you aren’t suggesting we should have sat in in order to create such space.. 

[wavydavy]

7 hours ago, TypoonJambo said:

Exactly, how many times was it obvious that there was no target in the box yet the cross still went in? 

Its like, "that's my bit of the brief done, over to you" 

 

👍

[Cruyff]

31 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

As far as I’m aware Robbie didn’t say it. 
 

it’s a simple fact, you can’t run in behind if there is no room to run in behind.. 

 

im sure you aren’t suggesting we should have sat in in order to create such space.. 

Pretty sure he did say something along those lines tbh. 

 

You surely aren't suggesting that we can't break the lines of part timers if they are sat on the edge of their 18 yard box?

 

I'm not suggesting we sit in at all, no.

[Homme]

You can't make a team press you FFS

[Cruyff]

10 minutes ago, Homme said:

You can't make a team press you FFS

See when the opposition players chase the guy that's got the ball? that bits called pressing.

[WheatfieldWarrior]

2 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

No, just mean a back up to boyce. The only way I can see wighton working is beside another player where theother player wins the balls and wighton runs off him. Wighton on his own up top is utterly pointless.

 

I think 1 up front in this division lacks ambition tbh, but it's the squad that we have put together.

  

Last time around, we had players running at defenses with the ball and they shat bricks.

 

We also had shots from everywhere in the team and the players need to have the have the confidence to do that as it creates space for the attacking players. 

 

Hopefully a few wins will breed the confidence we need.

[kingantti1874]

7 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Pretty sure he did say something along those lines tbh. 

 

You surely aren't suggesting that we can't break the lines of part timers if they are sat on the edge of their 18 yard box?

 

I'm not suggesting we sit in at all, no.

No not at all.. but this thread is about pace, and whats the point of pace specifically 

 

Pace doesn’t really help you break lines of a packed defence.. you can’t run in behind using pace when there is literally no space in behind. 
 

to break down packed defences there are far more important qualities than pace