All Home games to be streamed for ST Holders

[henryheart]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I reserve the right to express my amazement that anyone could look around at what's happening in Scotland and the world and expect anything. It's been pointed out before but when tickets were announced we didn't even know what league we'd be in. There was even chat we could be punished and thrown out completely.

 

I've asked this several times and have got no reply. Let's say no crowds happen this season but games are played behind closed doors. Do ST holders expect to get those streamed games for "free" as part of their ST and then get all 18 games next season, so two Sts for one? The problem for Hearts is they have to work on the hope of crowds coming back at any time, even reduced crowds. If they don't sell Sts this season and only sell online ones, what then? Who gets to go to a game? A ST guarantees your seat when full crowds are back. Most people in my experience buy a ST partly to save money but mostly to guarantee they can watch Hearts in the big games especially. With Hearts being in the championship, this is even more important as few of our games would be televised.

 

I hope this helps to answer your questions.

 

Do ST holders expect to get those streamed games for "free" as part of their ST and then get all 18 games next season, so two Sts for one?  - No, I would expect to pay separately for streamed matches either individually or as a streamed season ticket. 

 

If they don't sell Sts this season and only sell online ones, what then? Who gets to go to a game?  The only fair way is a ballot of those with the most loyalty points from last season. As I rarely go away now, this wouldn't include me but I accept there are others more deserving.

 

Most people in my experience buy a ST partly to save money - Used to be the case when there was terracing and you actually did save money but not now. The savings are insignificant; it is about having a specific seat that you like.

 

but mostly to guarantee they can watch Hearts in the big games especially. - Not really. I've never known there to be a problem in getting a ticket for any match. People always find ways and means and even rare attendees end up with tickets for Hibs away and finals.

 

With Hearts being in the championship, this is even more important as few of our games would be televised. - As above; I wouldn't expect even non season ticket holders to have any problem getting a ticket to see Hearts in a Championship match this season, assuming of course that fans are able to attend full capacity grounds. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 hours ago, kila said:

I think we need to have a competition to find #1 jammy wearer. There’s just so many to choose from now. Maybe the winner gets their ST ripped in front of them by Budge and they can laugh about it and buy another while praising the club?

 

 

Being a fan used to be seen as a good thing. Bought shares and STs if they could or took part in every scheme like the 500 club and FoH, went to as many games as they could, called the Hearts Clubline for news, queued for the Pink News at 6pm on a Saturday, "watched" games on Ceefax, got ridiculously excited if Hearts were mentioned on Saint and Greavsie. Most fans did all those things (literally every football fan I grew up with) but couldn't afford to get to all games, then there were diehards who went to every single game and were admired for it as basically the lifeblood of the club. Terms like "jammy wearer" and "happy clapper" didn't exist. You moaned about your club for various things at various times but never attacked it in the sustained way some people go about it today.

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

Thought it was just me. I’m gonna watch Bill & Ted instead

It will be a good test run for them next week, let’s hope there is no hitches. Out with the dogs for me. 

[ramrod]

2 hours ago, Shanks said:

Im not holding onto it.  I don’t care about the fact they forgot to order them, I’m still holding onto the part where the club lied to the fans about the reason for the delay.  
 

It’s one of many examples of how the current ownership have treated the ‘genuine’ fans with contempt.  Much like how we have been lied to again about the guarantee with season tickets, all I want is some honesty and for someone at the club to have the balls to face up to the fans and be real.  
 

Bunch of shitebags running our club. 

Genuine fans ? fans are fans . 

Some are fannys , some act like fannys but they're all fans . 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

18 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

I hope this helps to answer your questions.

 

Do ST holders expect to get those streamed games for "free" as part of their ST and then get all 18 games next season, so two Sts for one?  - No, I would expect to pay separately for streamed matches either individually or as a streamed season ticket. 

 

 

 

Cheers. One last question, assuming a streamed ST is £140-£180 or so (not much less than a cheaper ST) how does the club budget and fund ourselves if they didn't have a decent streaming service set up or people prefer to go with PPV?

 

From what I can tell, the club was optimistic about crowds being back and maybe even us being in a reconstructed league with up to 18 home games. No PPV and other options had been agreed at that time so they couldn't promise anything there. They guaranteed 18 home games like they do every year. Last season they couldn't fulfil that because of COVID. This season they can't fulfil it because of COVID but they can invest in a streaming service so supporters can watch all the games. I don't think Hearts at any point have deliberately misled supporters, which is the accusation.

 

If the backlash is as big as some say, a solution could be that Hearts could withdraw the "free" streaming for ST holders and instead rollover their ST for next season. St holders would then have to buy a streaming ST or PPV. 

 

That would also be by an absolute mile the best deal any club has offered their supporters, and it would seriously hit our budget for next season.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Beast Boy]

7 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Genuine fans ? fans are fans . 

Some are fannys , some act like fannys but they're all fans . 

He’s quoting Ann Budge’s statement when she used the phrase a while back. Can’t remember what it was used in relation to, but it put a lot of fans’ noses out of joint. A fan behaviour issue if I remember right? 🤷‍♂️

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

 

 

But some just attack the club for their own 'enjoyment'. That's social media for you.

 

 

True social media has turned attacking people and commenting on every little thing into a hobby for some people, or an addiction more like.

[ramrod]

2 minutes ago, Beast Boy said:

He’s quoting Ann Budge’s statement when she used the phrase a while back. Can’t remember what it was used in relation to, but it put a lot of fans’ noses out of joint. A fan behaviour issue if I remember right? 🤷‍♂️

Ah , well then , there doesn't seem to be many genuine fans about on this forum atm 🙂

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Great post. 

 

Having attended games since 1962 with my late Dad, I can safely say there was plenty to moan about over the ensuing decades. But also many great days. 

 

The attacks are more vicious now and you sometimes wonder about the true motives behind some of the attacks. 

 

I think we made a mistake with the Zlamal situation and I can understand some fans who have paid a lot of money for what will most likely be a season of games on their devices being upset. 

 

But some just attack the club for their own 'enjoyment'. That's social media for you.

And yours is also a great post.

 

The modern supporter who thinks he is too cool to be a passionate fan. Desperate for approval from likeminded dullards. Total arseholes that behave like that.

 

Trying to belittle supporters for backing the club and looking forward to watching them play. A weird modern phenomenon perpetuated by twats.

[Anything2]

3 hours ago, Beast Boy said:

Yeah, I considered that too, but I think that would result in too big a loss on seasonal revenue and affect what we had to spend on the team. Could be wrong right enough, but I think my idea would mean a small loss created by those who choose to not buy a season ticket and just use the six pre-paid tickets for three seasons, but I suspect most would either use them to bring friends as well as still buying their season ticket, or use them and buy individual match tickets for more games. I think that way attendances wouldn’t drop and income wouldn’t be as adversely affected. Might even end up with more supporters who start buying a season ticket.

I just thought league Cup games because sometimes the attendance is only 7-8,000 so by offering 11,500 people tickets, you would be giving away between 3,500 to 4,500 tickets that wouldn't have been sold anyway where as if you give them away for league games to season tickets holders, that's 11,500 tickets that you would lose income on. Another more complicated way would have been to offer half price vouchers for additional tickets so that folk might feel like they were getting some value back while also encouraging further sales. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

9 hours ago, GinRummy said:

There are people on this thread who will not even concede that hearts should have been clearer. That, in my mind, means they are just defending the club, regardless of what they themselves actually think. 

I am sure i read Hearts put out statements after new restrictions were put in place by the Government, the league was shortened as well. Also did they not say that 4 games were to be added in as a free season 21-22  ?

[GinRummy]

24 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

I am sure i read Hearts put out statements after new restrictions were put in place by the Government, the league was shortened as well. Also did they not say that 4 games were to be added in as a free season 21-22  ?

Aye maybe. Why not tell the fans precisely what a season ticket bought from the get go. They could have explained it might mean streams making up a part of the spend and that18 games at Tynecastle could potentially mean no games at Tynecastle. Hearts chose not to do that and put out statements that misled the best supporters in the land. Damn shame. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by GinRummy

[Rocky jamboa]

2 hours ago, gashauskis9 said:

Don’t disagree, but that wasn’t what I asked.  Even if we were in the Premiership, we would still have to sell STs to cover our overheads, despite supporters not being allowed in stadiums.  

I similarly didnt say she is at fault for the pandemic and closed stadiums. Being out of the premiership will cost us £2m-£3m before a game is even played. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Aye maybe. Why not tell the fans precisely what a season ticket bought from the get go. They could have explained it might mean streams making up a part of the spend and that18 games at Tynecastle could potentially mean no games at Tynecastle. Hearts chose not to do that and put our statements that misled the best supporters to n the land. Damn shame. 

Maybe fans have actually took their grievances to the clubs front desk and not here. Then again the way i am reading things here, some may not actually be fans of our club. I do understand what has occurred , we have to take in unprecedented times where it can be changed 4 times a day. No one knows what is going to happen. I am happy that Hearts are putting a decent if not quality squad together. Hearts are more than likely trying to rectify the issue as best they can. That is how i see it, i have not bothered them on the matter as that to me is distasteful. Especially before a competitive match has taken place.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

9 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

I similarly didnt say she is at fault for the pandemic and closed stadiums. Being out of the premiership will cost us £2m-£3m before a game is even played. 

Benefactors are all over that sum. We are alright. People are there for us always .

[GinRummy]

Just now, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Maybe fans have actually took their grievances to the clubs front desk and not here. Then again the way i am reading things here, some may not actually be fans of our club. I do understand what has occurred , we have to take in unprecedented times where it can be changed 4 times a day. No one knows what is going to happen. I am happy that Hearts are putting a decent if not quality squad together. Hearts are more than likely trying to rectify the issue as best they can. That is how i see it, i have not bothered them on the matter as that to me is distasteful. Especially before a competitive match has taken place.

I’m happy with the way the squad is being rebuilt as well. Do the hearts support deserve to be misled? No. Have we been misled? Yes. So the question must surely be - Why?

Who, at the club would be so ****ing stupid as to mislead the fans who have consistently put money into hearts while looking for nothing in return other than a future for the football club they love?

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I reserve the right to express my amazement that anyone could look around at what's happening in Scotland and the world and expect anything. It's been pointed out before but when tickets were announced we didn't even know what league we'd be in. There was even chat we could be punished and thrown out completely.

 

I've asked this several times and have got no reply. Let's say no crowds happen this season but games are played behind closed doors. Do ST holders expect to get those streamed games for "free" as part of their ST and then get all 18 games next season, so two Sts for one? The problem for Hearts is they have to work on the hope of crowds coming back at any time, even reduced crowds. If they don't sell Sts this season and only sell online ones, what then? Who gets to go to a game? A ST guarantees your seat when full crowds are back. Most people in my experience buy a ST partly to save money but mostly to guarantee they can watch Hearts in the big games especially. With Hearts being in the championship, this is even more important as few of our games would be televised.

 

Buying a ST is a leap of faith any season but especially this one. Kudos to everyone who did. If they want a refund I'm sure they can get one if they feel they were deliberately misled.

 

 

I'll answer then, I doubt anyone was expecting freebies. 

 

Answer me this, have fans just made up that the club intimated and in some cases confirmed that the 18 games would be guaranteed actual games you could attend? 

 

Or have the club offered something they had no idea could be delivered? 

 

You and others keep pointing out "surely no one thought they'd actually be able to attend all games this year". Have you thought to use this logic when questioning why the club would offer 18 games attendance? 

 

This whole mess is the clubs making for not having either enough foresight or making promises they knew might not be possible to keep. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

18 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’m happy with the way the squad is being rebuilt as well. Do the hearts support deserve to be misled? No. Have we been misled? Yes. So the question must surely be - Why?

Who, at the club would be so ****ing stupid as to mislead the fans who have consistently put money into hearts while looking for nothing in return other than a future for the football club they love?

As i said somewhere on here, the direct communication from Board to fans is terrible. The link between us the FOH and the board is even worse. Of course it is bad management. This is where fans can chew on the meat and gnaw the bones until the Hearts board step in suck up the marrow and admit the ins and outs of the complications. I have read and commented on a lot of issues here, the very fact we the fans have to suffer any of this is beyond it for me. If the FOH had some balls we may get some answers. The Hearts board has always been tricky and divisive, then we Jambos figure them out and protest. That didn't work as people ie me and some others felt stupid protesting. It is Hearts after all. I have always thrown my money away following supporting and of course standing up for the club. It is them i support after all. The board have been an interest to me in my life , Mercer, Robinson , Romanov. Budge. and now Mckinlay an actual connection to forming player and member of the  Heart of Midlothian . apart from that i had to look to see who is on the Hearts board and the FOH represensitive's. Those are the places to take out any questions or the likes. When people do that remember to post it here thanks with an image of the reply.Maybe do a video tour of yourself being told to **** off like they told me to do when i tried to make a complaint.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Gorgie Boot boy

[henryheart]

45 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Cheers. One last question, assuming a streamed ST is £140-£180 or so (not much less than a cheaper ST) how does the club budget and fund ourselves if they didn't have a decent streaming service set up or people prefer to go with PPV?

 

From what I can tell, the club was optimistic about crowds being back and maybe even us being in a reconstructed league with up to 18 home games. No PPV and other options had been agreed at that time so they couldn't promise anything there. They guaranteed 18 home games like they do every year. Last season they couldn't fulfil that because of COVID. This season they can't fulfil it because of COVID but they can invest in a streaming service so supporters can watch all the games. I don't think Hearts at any point have deliberately misled supporters, which is the accusation.

 

If the backlash is as big as some say, a solution could be that Hearts could withdraw the "free" streaming for ST holders and instead rollover their ST for next season. St holders would then have to buy a streaming ST or PPV. 

 

That would also be by an absolute mile the best deal any club has offered their supporters, and it would seriously hit our budget for next season.

 

 

No matter what happens the club is going to take a hit this year, but it is the same for all clubs. FOH donations continue at a high level and that plus PPV season tickets and walk ups would go some way to bridging the gap. Obviously this is not a detailed financial assessment but the club will be saving money in other areas - for example staff costs and policing associated with match days. 

 

I would agree that when making the guarantee there was no intent to mislead, but they have now opted to put a twist on what was intended by the guarantee, hence the anger.  

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

 

I'll answer then, I doubt anyone was expecting freebies. 

 

Answer me this, have fans just made up that the club intimated and in some cases confirmed that the 18 games would be guaranteed actual games you could attend? 

 

Or have the club offered something they had no idea could be delivered? 

 

You and others keep pointing out "surely no one thought they'd actually be able to attend all games this year". Have you thought to use this logic when questioning why the club would offer 18 games attendance? 

 

This whole mess is the clubs making for not having either enough foresight or making promises they knew might not be possible to keep. 

 

It all comes down to basic self awareness.  You can carp on about alleged promises but anyone following the news knew everything was ****ed back in May, June, July or August.

 

The question is whether Hearts have legally covered themselves.  The courts can decide that.

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

 

I'll answer then, I doubt anyone was expecting freebies. 

 

Answer me this, have fans just made up that the club intimated and in some cases confirmed that the 18 games would be guaranteed actual games you could attend? 

 

Or have the club offered something they had no idea could be delivered? 

 

You and others keep pointing out "surely no one thought they'd actually be able to attend all games this year". Have you thought to use this logic when questioning why the club would offer 18 games attendance? 

 

This whole mess is the clubs making for not having either enough foresight or making promises they knew might not be possible to keep. 

 

 

I question the wisdom of any club selling STs in this climate, but most people (from talking to people and thinking back to previous threads) seemed to see it as kind of a way to help the club through this first and foremost. The same reason why there hasn't been a rush to demand refunds for last season. I genuinely don't know if this is actual widespread seethe or the usual moaning. I can see how fans with premium or family tickets would feel like they're losing out but we still don't know if they're contacting the club to ask for refunds or complain.

 

According to someone in a post yesterday the club hadn't received many complaints. The club will definitely react if there are lots of complaints but few people seem to be complaining so I'm not sure what to make of that. Are they all "jammy wearers" and "happy clappers" with their heads in the sand? And by complain I mean actually complain to the club not moan online and hope they see it, which is generally how to complain about things when money is a factor.

 

If a lot of people complain, I've no doubt a "In response to feedback...." statement will appear with some sort of solution (that probably still won't lease everyone).

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

No matter what happens the club is going to take a hit this year, but it is the same for all clubs. FOH donations continue at a high level and that plus PPV season tickets and walk ups would go some way to bridging the gap. Obviously this is not a detailed financial assessment but the club will be saving money in other areas - for example staff costs and policing associated with match days. 

 

I would agree that when making the guarantee there was no intent to mislead, but they have now opted to put a twist on what was intended by the guarantee, hence the anger.  

 

That's fair comment. They may have misjudged the seethe and might yet pull back on that. However, if they receive few actual complaints - which seems to be the case so far - does that not mean Hearts fans are broadly supportive of what they've done in providing streaming even if they'd much rather be at games?

Edited September 19, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[GinRummy]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

It all comes down to basic self awareness.  You can carp on about alleged promises but anyone following the news knew everything was ****ed back in May, June, July or August.

 

The question is whether Hearts have legally covered themselves.  The courts can decide that.

 

That’s not the question at all imo. No significant applications or demands for refunds will affect our budget in any meaningful way. The question as far as I’m concerned is why did our club leave any doubt as to what buying a season ticket actually meant? 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Beast Boy said:

He’s quoting Ann Budge’s statement when she used the phrase a while back. Can’t remember what it was used in relation to, but it put a lot of fans’ noses out of joint. A fan behaviour issue if I remember right? 🤷‍♂️

Yes those pesky fans who wanted Levein out when we were bottom of the league. Her statement looked like she reckoned all the bams who send her nasty emails etc were the only ones who wanted him out, and the genuine supporters loved him like she did. Pretty much what her and Leveins biggest fan said on this very thread yesterday. 
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/latest-hearts-news/hearts-owner-ann-budge-clarifies-what-she-meant-genuine-supporters-club-statement-635937

[Gorgie Boot boy]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

That’s not the question at all imo. No significant applications or demands for refunds will affect our budget in any meaningful way. The question as far as I’m concerned is why did our club leave any doubt as to what buying a season ticket actually meant? 

Can imagine the same people queuing up to guarantee their seat for when football returns and supporting the side financially knowing they were buying for the sake of the clubs future. 25% seemingly realize they were paying for the name not the item and demand money back.  Mental .

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Can imagine the same people queuing up to guarantee their seat for when football returns and supporting the side financially knowing they were buying for the sake of the clubs future. 25% seemingly realize they were paying for the name not the item and demand money back.  Mental .

The number demanding money back to the point of actually getting a refund will be less than 5%. Bookmark that. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The number demanding money back to the point of actually getting a refund will be less than 5%. Bookmark that. 

Wouldn't be me though so take my percentage out of it. Bookmark that

Edited September 19, 2020 by Gorgie Boot boy

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Wouldn't be me though so take my percentage out of it. Bookmark that

👍 nor me mate. 

[Tommy Brown]

21 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It all comes down to basic self awareness.  You can carp on about alleged promises but anyone following the news knew everything was ****ed back in May, June, July or August.

 

The question is whether Hearts have legally covered themselves.  The courts can decide that.

 

 

The courts? Frank

 

Don't tell me our Hamilton poster has followed through his promise and suing the club?

[Tommy Brown]

28 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Tommy Brown

[Gorgie Boot boy]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

👍 nor me mate. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

👆

 

 

[fabienleclerq]

33 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It all comes down to basic self awareness.  You can carp on about alleged promises but anyone following the news knew everything was ****ed back in May, June, July or August.

 

The question is whether Hearts have legally covered themselves.  The courts can decide that.

 

 

Again you are questioning the fans awareness, have you questioned the clubs? 

If you could see it coming then surely the club should d and not guaranteed something. Blaming fans for trusting the club is ridiculous. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Again you are questioning the fans awareness, have you questioned the clubs? 

If you could see it coming then surely the club should d and not guaranteed something. Blaming fans for trusting the club is ridiculous. 

 

Have you asked for a refund because of the misleading wording and the fact you feel the club broke your trust?

[18Jambo_dave74]

1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Again you are questioning the fans awareness, have you questioned the clubs? 

If you could see it coming then surely the club should d and not guaranteed something. Blaming fans for trusting the club is ridiculous. 

I’ve noticed that a lot on this thread.

 

People defending the club “how were they to know”, “situation was always changing”, 

 

Yet people are also saying “do you not watch the news”, “you should have known”. 
 

 

[GinRummy]

Just now, 18Jambo_dave74 said:

I’ve noticed that a lot on this thread.

 

People defending the club “how were they to know”, “situation was always changing”, 

 

Yet people are also saying “do you not watch the news”, “you should have known”. 
 

 

Exactly. People perfectly willing to portray fellow fans as idiots while refusing point blank to accept the club should have been less ambiguous regarding what was actually on offer.  Some utterly disgraceful attitudes on this thread and a lack of willingness to take an objective view. The desire to constantly insist everything in the garden is rosy consumes some posters. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Exactly. People perfectly willing to portray fellow fans as idiots while refusing point blank to accept the club should have been less ambiguous regarding what was actually on offer.  Some utterly disgraceful attitudes on this thread and a lack of willingness to take an objective view. The desire to constantly insist everything in the garden is rosy consumes some posters. 

 

As does the desire to attack the club at every opportunity. The proof in the pudding will be how many people actually complain to the club and ask for refunds. If it's a lot and the club is forced to backtrack then the seethe was justified. If it's not many, I can't see how anyone can claim this pissed off a majority of fans.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

As does the desire to attack the club at every opportunity. The proof in the pudding will be how many people actually complain to the club and ask for refunds. If it's a lot and the club is forced to backtrack then the seethe was justified. If it's not many, I can't see how anyone can claim this pissed off a majority of fans.

That won’t be the proof of the pudding at all. If you read this thread back there are very few posters demanding refunds, threatening to sue (lol) or threatening the club financially in any way. 
 

The proof of how some people feel about the offer and how they feel misled is obvious. To skim over that and have a nothing to see hear approach is incredibly unhelpful. Viewing criticism as a direct threat to the clubs finances is even more unhelpful. Some unity and even sympathy for fellow hearts fans would be far more appropriate. 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 hours ago, Paulp74 said:

If the club will struggle financially if fans ask for refunds, an idea would be for ann Budge to put some of her vast fortune into the club as it's her poor management of the club over the past 4 years that's got us into this predicament. Why should the fans be losing out and paying for her mistakes? 

 

 

That is a cracker. 

 

Possibly the worst post on JKB, ever. 

Maybe the Internet. 

 

 

[Des Lynam]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Being a fan used to be seen as a good thing. Bought shares and STs if they could or took part in every scheme like the 500 club and FoH, went to as many games as they could, called the Hearts Clubline for news, queued for the Pink News at 6pm on a Saturday, "watched" games on Ceefax, got ridiculously excited if Hearts were mentioned on Saint and Greavsie. Most fans did all those things (literally every football fan I grew up with) but couldn't afford to get to all games, then there were diehards who went to every single game and were admired for it as basically the lifeblood of the club. Terms like "jammy wearer" and "happy clapper" didn't exist. You moaned about your club for various things at various times but never attacked it in the sustained way some people go about it today.

There is no denying your heart is in the right place but just let folk pissed off vent a bit. @Saint Jambo has answered the concerns time and time again. If a few folk complain on here it’s not going to lead to mass refunds and Hearts in administration. I think most have the right to be slightly miffed with the club but to question loyalty or infer they are bigots for feeling ripped off is wrong especially when these folk along with you have helped the club out time and again. You are right though that social media has made things easier to be toxic. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Exactly. People perfectly willing to portray fellow fans as idiots while refusing point blank to accept the club should have been less ambiguous regarding what was actually on offer.  Some utterly disgraceful attitudes on this thread and a lack of willingness to take an objective view. The desire to constantly insist everything in the garden is rosy consumes some posters. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

We are the best fans at times but also the worst. 

 

Do folk actually feel the club have broken their trust? 

 

Are folk upset, did they not consider fans may not be allowed back in? 

 

Are folk that angry about whatever it is? 

 

Does anyone on here want a refund and been told by the club no, or are they just greetin' because it's somthing to moan about?

Edited September 19, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, GinRummy said:

That won’t be the proof of the pudding at all. If you read this thread back there are very few posters demanding refunds, threatening to sue (lol) or threatening the club financially in any way. 
 

The proof of how some people feel about the offer and how they feel misled is obvious. To skim over that and have a nothing to see hear approach is incredibly unhelpful. Viewing criticism as a direct threat to the clubs finances is even more unhelpful. Some unity and even sympathy for fellow hearts fans would be far more appropriate. 

 

How should the club react or even know about these "feelings" though without actual complaints and requests for refunds etc? My point is that they can't use social media as a reliable gauge of fan opinion. You simply don't know if people are being genuine or not. So anyone who feels misled etc definitely should complain IMO. It's the best way to avoid a similar thing happening again.

 

I've only ever had a ST when I went with my dad but pretty much every time I buy a match ticket I feel ripped off. Football in Scotland is vastly over-priced in general. I have actually written to Hearts in the distant past about pricing but it became obvious it's a football-wide issue. I also feel ripped off every time I buy a coffee or sandwich out but never say a word. People make their own decisions about what things are worth to them but I can't see how moaning online is going to accomplish anything.

[Rocky jamboa]

8 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

That is a cracker. 

 

Possibly the worst post on JKB, ever. 

Maybe the Internet. 

 

 

Aye great mate. Because you dont want anything negative said against the club? Good one. Get your maroon blinkers off!

[Bull's-eye]

4 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

Aye great mate. Because you dont want anything negative said against the club? Good one. Get your maroon blinkers off!

 

 

There it is.

 

Could Hearts supporters please stop supporting the club please, it's upsetting the Play-doh munchers. 

[GinRummy]

9 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

How should the club react or even know about these "feelings" though without actual complaints and requests for refunds etc? My point is that they can't use social media as a reliable gauge of fan opinion. You simply don't know if people are being genuine or not. So anyone who feels misled etc definitely should complain IMO. It's the best way to avoid a similar thing happening again.

 

I've only ever had a ST when I went with my dad but pretty much every time I buy a match ticket I feel ripped off. Football in Scotland is vastly over-priced in general. I have actually written to Hearts in the distant past about pricing but it became obvious it's a football-wide issue. I also feel ripped off every time I buy a coffee or sandwich out but never say a word. People make their own decisions about what things are worth to them but I can't see how moaning online is going to accomplish anything.

In this instance it’s not a typical pricing issue though. The club made a statement that could be interpreted in more than one way. The statement was aimed at season ticket holders. That in itself is enough to criticise the club. The club had no idea whether fans would be inside tynecastle or not. The offer should have explained the contingency for no fans in the ground. It did not explain that or even attempt to. The club was wrong. 
 

Accept the above and we move on. Bury it and we have another smothered issue between club and some fans. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by GinRummy

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

In this instance it’s not a typical pricing issue though. The club made a statement that could be interpreted in more than one way. The statement was aimed at season ticket holders. That in itself is enough to criticise the club. The club had no idea whether fans would be inside tynecastle or not. The offer should have explained the contingency for no fans in the ground. It did not explain that or even attempt to. The club was wrong. 
 

Accept the above and we move on. Bury it and we have another smothered issue between club and some fans. 

 

And 11.5k STs were still sold. I don't think most Hearts fans are that gullible do you? But the only way to know for sure how many are pissed off is through the number of complaints. Fans being fans, most will just suck it up and not ask for a refund even if unhappy. They'll hope for some future reward maybe or if the team is successful they'll probably forget about it. That's how all football clubs take advantage of their fans, although I honestly think ours does it less than most. 

 

However there have been strong views expressed on this thread and I'd expect everyone who said those things to at least complain directly to the club.

Edited September 19, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And 11.5k STs were still sold. I don't think most Hearts fans are that gullible do you? But the only way to know for sure how many are pissed off is through the number of complaints. Fans being fans, most will just suck it up even if unhappy. Tat's how all football clubs take advantage of their fans, although I honestly think ours does it less than most.

 

However there have been strong views expressed on this thread and I'd expect everyone who said those things to at least complain directly to the club.

The fans have proved their mettle time after time after time. It’s not a case of the fans being gullible. It’s a case of the club being absolutely clear about what buying a season ticket means. There should be nothing to ‘suck up ‘ because it should’ve been pitched with more clarity and awareness of the possible scenarios by the club. As for gauging how the fans feel by the number of complaints or demands for refunds, many more season ticket holders will choose to simply grumble and moan on here than complain directly to the club and I think venting their grievances on here is better than demanding money back from the club. Why folk on jkb are actually encouraging people to apply for refunds is beyond me. 

[iainmac]

48 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

We are the best fans at times but also the worst. 

 

Do folk actually feel the club have broken their trust? 

 

Are folk upset, did they not consider fans may not be allowed back in? 

 

Are folk that angry about whatever it is? 

 

Does anyone on here want a refund and been told by the club no, or are they just greetin' because it's somthing to moan about?

 

So many questions.

 

If only they hadn't been answered time and time again on this very thread..........

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

The courts? Frank

 

Don't tell me our Hamilton poster has followed through his promise and suing the club?

 

I am just making the assumption Hearts will refuse refunds, so it is up to individuals what to do after that.

[frankblack]

22 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The fans have proved their mettle time after time after time. It’s not a case of the fans being gullible. It’s a case of the club being absolutely clear about what buying a season ticket means. There should be nothing to ‘suck up ‘ because it should’ve been pitched with more clarity and awareness of the possible scenarios by the club. As for gauging how the fans feel by the number of complaints or demands for refunds, many more season ticket holders will choose to simply grumble and moan on here than complain directly to the club and I think venting their grievances on here is better than demanding money back from the club. Why folk on jkb are actually encouraging people to apply for refunds is beyond me. 

 

Yeah, because at the time season tickets went on sale everything was clear about which division we were in and when football would restart with fans.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

I am just making the assumption Hearts will refuse refunds, so it is up to individuals what to do after that.

How many individuals have actually said they will try and get refunds? There’s a bit of understandable criticism but few hearts fans will demand money back. Imo, of course.