davemclaren Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Yes loan repaid with interest but acquisition of shares not yet done. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Dongcaster Posted September 15, 2020 Author Share Posted September 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, davemclaren said: We are not individually the owners of Hearts shares. We are members of an organisation that owns the shares collectively. Would you like to be involved in the club or FOH in an official capacity Dave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Neil Dongcaster said: Would you like to be involved in the club or FOH in an official capacity Dave? No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Neil Dongcaster said: Would you like to be involved in the club or FOH in an official capacity Dave? Doubt he has the time after he explains the obvious on here day after day after day after day etc etc etc... 😀😀😀😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said: Doubt he has the time after he explains the obvious on here day after day after day after day etc etc etc... 😀😀😀😀 Exactly. 🧐 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Dongcaster Posted September 15, 2020 Author Share Posted September 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said: Doubt he has the time after he explains the obvious on here day after day after day after day etc etc etc... 😀😀😀😀 4 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Exactly. 🧐 Or the obvious as he sees it. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Neil Dongcaster said: Or the obvious as he sees it. 👍 Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Neil Dongcaster said: Or the obvious as he sees it. 👍 Obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Black Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 hour ago, iainmac said: No, we won't. We'll be able to elect the FoH Board, 2 of which will sit on the club Board. Exactly the same as now. Agreed and allowing for me being extremely thick here, who does elect the club board. The same as now is that we elect or oppose any club board director every 2 (?) years. I'm not trying to be awkward but I really don't get where I am wrong in that we elect both club and FOH board members as at present. I've been to every Club and FOH agm since it started and that is what has happened. You're right it is the same as now, so as a collective we the shareholders/members elect each board member in rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, David Black said: Agreed and allowing for me being extremely thick here, who does elect the club board. The same as now is that we elect or oppose any club board director every 2 (?) years. I'm not trying to be awkward but I really don't get where I am wrong in that we elect both club and FOH board members as at present. I've been to every Club and FOH agm since it started and that is what has happened. You're right it is the same as now, so as a collective we the shareholders/members elect each board member in rotation. The CEO will appoint the club board, they don't rotate as far as I'm aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, iainmac said: The CEO will appoint the club board, they don't rotate as far as I'm aware. But isn't David right in that the club board members have to be approved at the club AGM and FoH with a controlling shareholding will be able to vote for or reject (or in extremis sack) a club board member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Black Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, iainmac said: The CEO will appoint the club board, they don't rotate as far as I'm aware. I can clearly remember at the Club Board being asked to re-elect Craig Levein and Ann Budge. That being the case I am presuming the same applies to Kevin Windrum and Jacquie Duncan as well. Ann Budge has been CEO up to now and she has not appointed the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 16 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said: I wrote a letter to Bill Lindsay! I highlighted how Hearts could make huge improvements on supporter engagement! But I never got a reply ...... I was really upset! Made me shout, “Lindsay OUT” - loudly!! Ha-ha. Not getting a reply was maybe his ironic way of disagreeing with your suggestion ! He did look like a sour-faced erse right enough - a "blazer" type who only seemed interested in the fame of being at the head of a club who won loads of trophies in the recent past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Black Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: But isn't David right in that the club board members have to be approved at the club AGM and FoH with a controlling shareholding will be able to vote for or reject (or in extremis sack) a club board member. Exactly. Someone stands for election or re-election at both the Club Board and FOH Board . We as shareholders in the Club or members of FOH vote them off or on. Having done that at Club level that board is then formed and that Board in turn appoints the Chairperson from that Board. The point I am trying to make is that if they decide to elect Ann Budge as chairperson she has to have been elected to the Board in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jambo Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, David Black said: Exactly. Someone stands for election or re-election at both the Club Board and FOH Board . We as shareholders in the Club or members of FOH vote them off or on. Having done that at Club level that board is then formed and that Board in turn appoints the Chairperson from that Board. The point I am trying to make is that if they decide to elect Ann Budge as chairperson she has to have been elected to the Board in the first place. But if that is the case (and I haven't gone back to double check the appointment process for Club Board members), it will be the FOH Board not the FOH membership who decide how to cast the FOH votes at the Club AGM to approve the Club Board members. Given that FOH will hold 75% of shares in the club that effectively means it is the FOH Board that has the power to approve or reject Club Board members, not the FOH members directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, David Black said: Exactly. Someone stands for election or re-election at both the Club Board and FOH Board . We as shareholders in the Club or members of FOH vote them off or on. Having done that at Club level that board is then formed and that Board in turn appoints the Chairperson from that Board. The point I am trying to make is that if they decide to elect Ann Budge as chairperson she has to have been elected to the Board in the first place. The FoH and club board are separate. The FoH members vote prior to the FoH meeting in any directors due for re-election. The Hearts shareholders ( Including FoH ) vote on any director Appointments at the club agm. FoH members do not have a vote at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said: But if that is the case (and I haven't gone back to double check the appointment process for Club Board members), it will be the FOH Board not the FOH membership who decide how to cast the FOH votes at the Club AGM to approve the Club Board members. Given that FOH will hold 75% of shares in the club that effectively means it is the FOH Board that has the power to approve or reject Club Board members, not the FOH members directly. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 10 hours ago, ToqueJambo said: I don't usually like to engage with anyone who uses the word "regime" when talking about Hearts, but I thought Budge gave Levein too much leeway, Levein lost his management mojo and Stendel was a mostly shite appointment by Budge, if still an understandable one. Your post highlights the crux of how we (as fans) usually judge the record of the owner/chairman - i.e. whether their tenure co-incided with a generally exciting or a generally poor period for the team. Sometimes, it's mixed (like Mercer, Robinson and Romanov) Yet pretty much all of these chairmen ended up trying to deal unsuccessfully with some kind of crisis (at least in the eyes of the fans) and resigned. Ironically, Budge is the exact opposite of Romanov in character and business integrity. Budge showing extreme trust in the football supremo lasting years .... Romanov throwing a double six every few months and deciding to discard a manger just for fun, regardless of results. Yet here we are on JKB, heading down the road of filing Budge in the same drawer as Romanov. Lots of good comment on here, btw, on the role of FoH going forward - Guardian of the majority of shares - good Investment/fundraising vehicle for the club - good Dealing with responsibility of ownership when members are unhappy - hmmmm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Correct. I am not sure anyone suggested FoH members would have a vote to approve or reject club board members. But they have the power to vote or for reject FoH board members and if if the latter go against their wishes they can act accordingly. I know the FoH governance arrangements currently adopt an extreme "hands off" approach to running the club but that can be changed if FoH members choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: I am not sure anyone suggested FoH members would have a vote to approve or reject club board members. But they have the power to vote or for reject FoH board members and if if the latter go against their wishes they can act accordingly. I know the FoH governance arrangements currently adopt an extreme "hands off" approach to running the club but that can be changed if FoH members choose. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Black Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 22 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Correct. Clearly we are now going round in circles with this. We are in fact agreeing on most points but voting rights are the issue. My last point on this is that if shareholder/members perceive they have even less of a connect with both club and FOH than they have at present it is not going to actually encourage more to join. It's basically, pay us your money but although you own the club, you will have very little say. As I say I am out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, David Black said: Clearly we are now going round in circles with this. We are in fact agreeing on most points but voting rights are the issue. My last point on this is that if shareholder/members perceive they have even less of a connect with both club and FOH than they have at present it is not going to actually encourage more to join. It's basically, pay us your money but although you own the club, you will have very little say. As I say I am out. How are voting rights an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calebs Grandad Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 It’s going to be absolute carnage on here when these votes etc take place 🙈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) L 31 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I agree. For the avoidance of doubt I meant theFoH board going against members wishes not just in relation to.the role of two.of them on the club board but against the wishes of the FoH membership in relation to how the FoH board chooses to vote the majority controlling interest in appointing or reappointing or in extremis dismissing club board members. FoH amd its membership.does have control if it chooses to excercise it. Current governance arrangements make it more difficult than it need or should be but those can be changed. It will take more interest in governance and board elections and so.on than has been the case to date. Maybe the next near extinction event? Edited September 15, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Black Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 16 minutes ago, davemclaren said: How are voting rights an issue? Sorry, Wrong to say voting rights. That is not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Neil Dongcaster said: Would you like to be involved in the club or FOH in an official capacity Dave? I know of a place where that opinion is very popular. It’s full of total ****wits though, so you’d probably not like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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