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1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

Leeds won't qualify for Europe this season. Like a Stendel team their defending is woeful.

If Leeds finish bottom half this season the supporters will start turning against him. If you believe the modern football supporter will take losing games 5-4 every week, great entertainment they may be, they would rather win 1-0 every week playing boring football.

That is the modern reality.

Heaven forbid if Leeds were to get relegated, he would get the bullet faster than one leaving a rifle. Despite perhaps playing entertaining football, Leeds board would be lamenting the hundreds of million of pounds they would be losing for no longer being in the EPL. That Bongo is the reality of modern football.

Leeds won't qualify for Europe this season yet Brentford Sit 10th just now 🤔 you are writing them off after 4 games. 

 

In you're eyes maybe 😂

 

You willing to bet leeds will get relegated? I am willing to bet they won't 👍

 

Again i will ask as i said last post can you please point out where I'm talking shite?. 

 

It's a simple question really. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Leeds won't qualify for Europe this season yet Brentford Sit 10th just now 🤔 you are writing them off after 4 games. 

 

In you're eyes maybe 😂

 

You willing to bet leeds will get relegated? I am willing to bet they won't 👍

 

Again i will ask as i said last post can you please point out where I'm talking shite?. 

 

It's a simple question really. 

 

 

 

Just read your own posts. You will see enough shite in their to fill Seafield sewage works twice over.

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2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Leeds won't qualify for Europe this season yet Brentford Sit 10th just now 🤔 you are writing them off after 4 games. 

 

In you're eyes maybe 😂

 

You willing to bet leeds will get relegated? I am willing to bet they won't 👍

 

Again i will ask as i said last post can you please point out where I'm talking shite?. 

 

It's a simple question really. 

 

 

 

 

I think they'll stay up...but I think they'll be in the bottom 5.

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3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Just read your own posts. You will see enough shite in their to fill Seafield sewage works twice over.

To easy John boy, it's been a pleasure Hun👍

 

#stumped. 

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3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I think they'll stay up...but I think they'll be in the bottom 5.

Robbie thinks Celtic away in the cup was a great draw. 

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26 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Leeds won't qualify for Europe this season. Like a Stendel team their defending is woeful.

If Leeds finish bottom half this season the supporters will start turning against him. If you believe the modern football supporter will take losing games 5-4 every week, great entertainment they may be, they would rather win 1-0 every week playing boring football.

That is the modern reality.

Heaven forbid if Leeds were to get relegated, he would get the bullet faster than one leaving a rifle. Despite perhaps playing entertaining football, Leeds board would be lamenting the hundreds of million of pounds they would be losing for no longer being in the EPL. That Bongo is the reality of modern football.

Since you can predict the future mate, can you tell me where Hearts will place in the league After 38 games? 

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17 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Hard to go with much else in regards to something yet to happen tbf.

Where do you think a club with the second lowest wages in the league should finish?. 

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Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

Where do you think a club with the second lowest wages in the league should finish?. 

 

In that league? Anywhere in the third, there's a diminishing return after a certain level for wages imo. If I had to pick a specific position, I'd say 17th. Which is where I think Leeds will finish 👍

 

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1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

In that league? Anywhere in the third, there's a diminishing return after a certain level for wages imo. If I had to pick a specific position, I'd say 17th. Which is where I think Leeds will finish 👍

 

Fair enough i reckon they will finish above that easy 👍

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1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

You first argument is you don't see how he is a genius, do you actually know where Leeds were as a club when he came in, do you know how much that leeds team cost compared to Livarpools, did it also escape you're attention that leeds finished 9th last season, did it also escape you're attention that leeds were undefeated at home last season against the top 6. 

 

He's managed to turn average championship players into Premier league players, when Kalvin Phillip's was at the club Bielsa arrived the fans wanted Kalvin sold, only for Marcelo to say no, I will turn him into the best player in the league since then he's been called up by England both him and Bamford, Bamford was out of favour at Chelsea moved to Middlesbrough and Marcelo has  changed his game. 

 

When he moved to Leeds,Bamford was nowhere near being called up for an England side while at Middlesbrough,but managed to score 17 goals last season in the Leeds side 🤔

 

Kalvin Phillip's won England player of the year 👍

 

Turned Ayling who was released by arsenal at a young age, who then went to Yeovil, then Bristol City into one of the better right backs in the league. 

 

Played youngster Jack Clarke who ended up getting a big money move to spurs. 

 

Turned Stuart Dallas into a Premier league player, Cooper was written off by the fans is now a regular in the Scotland side. 

 

Klich now gets called up regularly by Poland. 

 

Signed Raphinha last season and was being touted for an £80 million pound move to Liverpool / Man United. 

 

If Hearts played like his Leeds team we would achieve 3rd place easy because teams simply wouldn't be able to cope with us. 

 

He's taken on some of the best teams in the world, you would rather watch a team sit in and get 4-5 goals put past them, than watch a team that goes out there with the genuine belief they can win a game 😂 ok pal. 

 

What he has achieved with that leeds team is unbelievable, punching way above there weight. 

 

Long term he's changing the culture of the club. 

 

Similar to how Stendel was given time and a chance. 

 

Playing in a positive manner. 

 

And as for the clamour on here would be off the Richter scale, that's because most couldn't spell football or say they have played the game, to even know what a good Coach is. 

 

They think winning in a ugly fashion is great, but overall how does it improve the club?

 

Give me a manager that will improve the football side and culture of club, that is attacking and entertaining everyday of the week. 

 

Over what we have currently 😂😂

 

Just open that mouth of yours and talk 💩 💩

 

He said tactical genius actually, I don't see anything that addresses that in your reply

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13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

He said tactical genius actually, I don't see anything that addresses that in your reply

Suppose Smithee, John from Jkbs opinion on Marcelo or Peps. 😂😂

 

Hard one tbf 🤔

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1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Suppose Smithee, John from Jkbs opinion on Marcelo or Peps. 😂😂

 

Hard one tbf 🤔

 

I'm just saying, he doesn't see why the guy's hailed as a tactical genius, and that's the one thing you seemed to avoid addressing.

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1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm just saying, he doesn't see why the guy's hailed as a tactical genius, and that's the one thing you seemed to avoid addressing.

Aye pep and others don't know what they are talking about, you're absolutely spot on mate. 

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3 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Aye pep and others don't know what they are talking about, you're absolutely spot on mate. 

 

I have no opinion on the subject.

 

If all you've got is "pep loves him" then neither should you really!

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22 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I have no opinion on the subject.

 

If all you've got is "pep loves him" then neither should you really!

You have no opinion but you decided to quote me 🤔

 

As far as addressing things 9th place finish last season. 

 

And unbeaten at home against the recognised top 6🤔

 

All with having the second lowest wage budget in the league 🤔

 

You're right guys a fraud. 

 

Isn't a tactical genius. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

You have no opinion but you decided to quote me 🤔

 

As far as addressing things 9th place finish last season. 

 

And unbeaten at home against the top 6🤔

 

All with having the second lowest wage budget in the league 🤔

 

You're right guys a fraud. 

 

Isn't a tactical genius. 

 

 

 

I have no opinion, I don't know why he's known as a tactical genius. I'm not saying he isn't, I don't know much about him.

 

I was passing and noticed you'd written an essay, casually cutting the word "tactical" out when that was specifically what the guy was asking.

 

If you'd said "oh he pioneered the modern wing back position and worked out how to nullify opposition midfielders" or something then fair enough, but you still haven't said a word about him tactically.

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6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I have no opinion, I don't know why he's known as a tactical genius. I'm not saying he isn't, I don't know much about him.

 

I was passing and noticed you'd written an essay, casually cutting the word "tactical" out when that was specifically what the guy was asking.

 

If you'd said "oh he pioneered the modern wing back position and worked out how to nullify opposition midfielders" or something then fair enough, but you still haven't said a word about him tactically.

Don't need to his admirers speak for itself, I don't need to blow his trumpet, he has everyone that's world class doing that for him. 

 

Only a t** would say he hasn't done a good job with Leeds, and has them punching way above there weight. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I have no opinion, I don't know why he's known as a tactical genius. I'm not saying he isn't, I don't know much about him.

 

I was passing and noticed you'd written an essay, casually cutting the word "tactical" out when that was specifically what the guy was asking.

 

If you'd said "oh he pioneered the modern wing back position and worked out how to nullify opposition midfielders" or something then fair enough, but you still haven't said a word about him tactically.

What and are you suggesting Neilson has like do me a favour 🙄

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1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Don't need to his admirers speak for itself, I don't need to blow his trumpet, he has everyone that's world class doing that for him. 

 

Only a tit would say he hasn't done a good job with Leeds, and has them punching way above there weight. 

 

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

What and are you suggesting Neilson has like do me a favour 🙄

 

9iaO3MP.gif

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6 hours ago, John Findlay said:

I'm still trying to workout why some say the Leeds manager is a tactical genius.

I wouldn’t bother! They don’t know what they’re saying! Many said the same about Daniel Stendel!

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3 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

You first argument is you don't see how he is a genius, do you actually know where Leeds were as a club when he came in, do you know how much that leeds team cost compared to Livarpools, did it also escape you're attention that leeds finished 9th last season, did it also escape you're attention that leeds were undefeated at home last season against the top 6. 

 

He's managed to turn average championship players into Premier league players, when Kalvin Phillip's was at the club Bielsa arrived the fans wanted Kalvin sold, only for Marcelo to say no, I will turn him into the best player in the league since then he's been called up by England both him and Bamford, Bamford was out of favour at Chelsea moved to Middlesbrough and Marcelo has  changed his game. 

 

When he moved to Leeds,Bamford was nowhere near being called up for an England side while at Middlesbrough,but managed to score 17 goals last season in the Leeds side 🤔

 

Kalvin Phillip's won England player of the year 👍

 

Turned Ayling who was released by arsenal at a young age, who then went to Yeovil, then Bristol City into one of the better right backs in the league. 

 

Played youngster Jack Clarke who ended up getting a big money move to spurs. 

 

Turned Stuart Dallas into a Premier league player, Cooper was written off by the fans is now a regular in the Scotland side. 

 

Klich now gets called up regularly by Poland. 

 

Signed Raphinha last season and was being touted for an £80 million pound move to Liverpool / Man United. 

 

If Hearts played like his Leeds team we would achieve 3rd place easy because teams simply wouldn't be able to cope with us. 

 

He's taken on some of the best teams in the world, you would rather watch a team sit in and get 4-5 goals put past them, than watch a team that goes out there with the genuine belief they can win a game 😂 ok pal. 

 

What he has achieved with that leeds team is unbelievable, punching way above there weight. 

 

Long term he's changing the culture of the club. 

 

Similar to how Stendel was given time and a chance. 

 

Playing in a positive manner. 

 

And as for the clamour on here would be off the Richter scale, that's because most couldn't spell football or say they have played the game, to even know what a good Coach is. 

 

They think winning in a ugly fashion is great, but overall how does it improve the club?

 

Give me a manager that will improve the football side and culture of club, that is attacking and entertaining everyday of the week. 

 

Over what we have currently 😂😂

 

Just open that mouth of yours and talk 💩 💩

 

You can’t be serious! This is a joke!

 

Undefeated at home vs top 6 - wrong!

 

LOST at home to Leicester City and West Ham!

DREW at home to Manure, ManC, Liverpool & Chelski!!

 

OTHER results included a draw with Arsenal and a narrow win vs Spuds!

 

There’s only two things consistently said about Leeds …..

“Dirty Leeds”

“Leeds Scum”

 

It would be best for everybody if they were back in the Championship!

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39 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

I wouldn’t bother! They don’t know what they’re saying! Many said the same about Daniel Stendel!

Aye I'm sure Peps wrong remind me what he's done in the game compared to Brendan the Celtic legend. 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

You can’t be serious! This is a joke!

 

Undefeated at home vs top 6 - wrong!

 

LOST at home to Leicester City and West Ham!

DREW at home to Manure, ManC, Liverpool & Chelski!!

 

OTHER results included a draw with Arsenal and a narrow win vs Spuds!

 

There’s only two things consistently said about Leeds …..

“Dirty Leeds”

“Leeds Scum”

 

It would be best for everybody if they were back in the Championship!

West Ham and Leicester City ain't recognised as the top 6 hun. 

 

 

There wage budget compared to Leicester City and West Ham. 

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.goal.com/en-gb/amp/news/who-are-premier-league-big-six-top-english-clubs-nickname/130iokmi8t8dt1k3kudou73s1k&ved=2ahUKEwjl6JfXzvryAhVSeMAKHVgLAFkQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1mrBbyGlqGTYdb2lBr3pZY&ampcf=1

 

Blackburn Rovers, who won the Premier League in 1995, and Leicester City, who won the title in 2016, are not part of the 'big six'. Despite their success, they have not been consistent enough.

Edited by Bongo 1874
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5 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

West Ham and Leicester City ain't recognised as the top 6 hun. 

 

 

There wage budget compared to Leicester City and West Ham. 

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.goal.com/en-gb/amp/news/who-are-premier-league-big-six-top-english-clubs-nickname/130iokmi8t8dt1k3kudou73s1k&ved=2ahUKEwjl6JfXzvryAhVSeMAKHVgLAFkQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1mrBbyGlqGTYdb2lBr3pZY&ampcf=1

 

Blackburn Rovers, who won the Premier League in 1995, and Leicester City, who won the title in 2016, are not part of the 'big six'. Despite their success, they have not been consistent enough.

Leicester City have been top six the last two seasons and are the current FA Cup holders. You are right they are not consistent enough.

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3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Leicester City have been top six the last two seasons and are the current FA Cup holders. You are right they are not consistent enough.

Going on that basis Hibs must be the top 6 team in Edinburgh, and Hearts can't be a top 6 team due to being demoted and winning the championship last season. 

 

Though most seasons we have finished above Hibs, but Hibs like Leicester have had a few good seasons and you want to make them a top 6 team. 

 

😂😂

 

Hibs also must be the big team in Edinburgh as they were the last team in Edinburgh to win the Scottish Cup, Scotland's equivalent to the FA Cup in England, a competition that most big teams in England rest there star players, and put out weakened sides. 

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1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Going on that basis Hibs must be   the top 6 team in Edinburgh, and Hearts can't be a top 6 team due to be demoted and winning the championship last season. 

 

Though most seasons we have finished above Hibs, but Hibs like Leicester have had a few good seasons and you want to make them a top 6 team. 

 

😂😂

 

Hibs also must be the big team in Edinburgh as they were the last team in Edinburgh to win the Scottish Cup, Scotland's equivalent to the FA Cup in England, a competition that most big teams in England rest there star players, and put out weakened sides. 

Aye it was really a weakened Chelsea team that Leicester beat in the final.

This current Leeds team cannot defend and that will be their downfall. Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

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15 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Aye it was really a weakened Chelsea team that Leicester beat in the final.

This current Leeds team cannot defend and that will be their downfall. Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

We will see certainly didn't have any problems last season finishing 9th, and getting a player to be named England player of the year 😉

 

They play my team on Friday and tbh i fear the worst. 

 

Scoring doesn't seem to be a problem for them defending is, but if you understand how they try to play, you will notice they play attacking high risk football, press high and out run teams. 

 

Bielsa has done this with every single team he has went too. 

 

As someone that watches them as a neutral, they are the closest thing I've seen to when Newcastle had the entertainers. 

 

 

They are currently in the process of expanding there 38-40 thousand stadium to 60 thousand. 

 

When you consider where they were just for a second under managers like Paul Heckingbottom etc. 

 

Then you will see the man's genius that is Marcelo Bielsa. 

 

A team that is punching way above there weight and doing it in a way that is risky, most teams when they get promoted first season look to just stay up, they came into the Premier league and from the very first game against Livarpool away, went out and attacked them. 

 

Losing 4-3. 

 

Anyway one like me can only educate people when they say daft things, and really don't know what they are talking about have a good day John 👍

Edited by Bongo 1874
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2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

We will see certainly didn't have any problems last season finishing 9th, and getting a player to be named England player of the year 😉

 

They play my team on Friday and tbh i fear the worst. 

 

Scoring doesn't seem to be a problem for them defending is, but if you understand how they try to play, you will notice they play attacking high risk football, press high and out run teams. 

 

Bielsa has done this with every single team he has went too. 

 

As someone that watches them as a neutral, they are the closest thing I've seen to when Newcastle had the entertainers. 

 

 

They are currently in the process of expanding there 38-40 thousand stadium to 60 thousand. 

 

When you consider where they were just for a second under manager like Paul Heckingbottom etc. 

 

Then you will see the man's genius that is Marcelo Bielsa. 

 

A team that is punching way above there weight and doing it in a way that is risky, most teams when they get promoted first season look to just stay up, they came into the Premier league and from the very first game against Livarpool away, went out and attacked them. 

 

Losing 4-3. 

 

Anyway one like me can only educate people when they say daft things, and really don't know what they are talking about have a good day John 👍

Keep trying.

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9 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

West Ham and Leicester City ain't recognised as the top 6 hun. 

 

 

There wage budget compared to Leicester City and West Ham. 

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.goal.com/en-gb/amp/news/who-are-premier-league-big-six-top-english-clubs-nickname/130iokmi8t8dt1k3kudou73s1k&ved=2ahUKEwjl6JfXzvryAhVSeMAKHVgLAFkQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1mrBbyGlqGTYdb2lBr3pZY&ampcf=1

 

Blackburn Rovers, who won the Premier League in 1995, and Leicester City, who won the title in 2016, are not part of the 'big six'. Despite their success, they have not been consistent enough.

😂 and Tottenham Hotspur (spuds) who have NEVER won the Premier League are ….. you can’t be serious, you really are joking 🙃 

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Jeffros Furios
26 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Took the bait like a champ🎣 .

Bait ? So you are trolling , carry on .

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8 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

😂 and Tottenham Hotspur (spuds) who have NEVER won the Premier League are ….. you can’t be serious, you really are joking 🙃 

If you are basing it on league finishes over the period of time,since the Premier league has started then yes. 

 

It's a shame it's like that because you are absolutely spot on you have won the Premier league, and spurs haven't 👍

 

But I'm sure spurs have qualified for the Champions league and have more higher placed finishes than Leicester, though correct me if I'm wrong and if i am i apologise. 

 

Then you look at players etc, stadium, there is only one winner im afraid. 

 

Leicester must be a bigger team than Man Utd too. 

Edited by Bongo 1874
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2 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Bait ? So you are trolling , carry on .

Nope but the gang is out and I'm just given them a taste of there own medicine 😜

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7 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

😂 and Tottenham Hotspur (spuds) who have NEVER won the Premier League are ….. you can’t be serious, you really are joking 🙃 

 

Big Six for me are:

 

Chelsea 

Man U 

Man City 

Liverpool

Leicester 

Then a toss up between Arsenal and Spurs for 6th. One are never have beens and the other are has beens 😂

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Big Six for me are:

 

Chelsea 

Man U 

Man City 

Liverpool

Leicester 

Then a toss up between Arsenal and Spurs for 6th. One are never have beens and the other are has beens 😂

 

 

 

 

You haven't included West ham based on you're theory 👍

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1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

You haven't included West ham based on you're theory 👍

 

My theory is based on who's won the premier league. Spurs get a look in due to their consistency and making a Champions league final. If Arsenal weren't now so bad they'd have the 6th spot stitched up.

 

Not sure how West Ham fit into that theory if I'm honest.

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1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

My theory is based on who's won the premier league. Spurs get a look in due to their consistency and making a Champions league final. If Arsenal weren't now so bad they'd have the 6th spot stitched up.

 

Not sure how West Ham fit into that theory if I'm honest.

They placed 6th last season. 

 

Blackburn would also need to be included too as they have won the Premier League. 

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Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

They placed 6th last season. 

 

Blackburn would also need to be included too as they have won the Premier League. 

 

I'm not basing it on placings other than who's won it, as I said.

 

How would Blackburn need included? 7 teams have won the league, my EPL Big Six (a term I hate anyway btw), is by definition 6 teams...and there's 6 better candidates than Blackburn and they're not in the league so can't really be part of that leagues big Six. Where they in that league, then I'd have them well clear of Spurs and they'd be the toss up with Arsenal.

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1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm not basing it on placings other than who's won it, as I said.

 

How would Blackburn need included? 7 teams have won the league, my EPL Big Six (a term I hate anyway btw), is by definition 6 teams...and there's 6 better candidates than Blackburn and they're not in the league so can't really be part of that leagues big Six. Where they in that league, then I'd have them well clear of Spurs and they'd be the toss up with Arsenal.

Well you have to include Blackburn Rovers then as they have won it 😂😂

 

They won it before Leicester ☺ and have won it the same amount of times as them. 

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5 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Well you have to include Blackburn Rovers then as they have won it 😂😂

 

They won it before Leicester ☺ and have won it the same amount of times as them. 

 

How can a team not in the EPL, be in an EPL Big Six? 

 

"Here's my EPL Big Six, it has 7 teams and one isn't in the EPL"

 

👍👍

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3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

How can a team not in the EPL, be in an EPL Big Six? 

 

"Here's my EPL Big Six, it has 7 teams and one isn't in the EPL"

 

👍👍

Okay mate just you said you were basing it on what teams had won the premier league. 

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Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

Okay mate just you said you were basing it on what teams had won the premier league. 

 

I mean, it really doesn't matter and big Six and all that stuff grinds my gears anyway 😂😂

 

Nice to have a debate about English football though as my mates down here aren't really into football 👍👍

 

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The Old Tolbooth
1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Aye it was really a weakened Chelsea team that Leicester beat in the final.

This current Leeds team cannot defend and that will be their downfall. Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

Spot on there John, Liverpool cut through that Leeds side with ease yesterday and ended up battering them into submission, other teams will do the same, they're in for some proper hidings this season with that defence and the way they play. 

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13 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Leeds won't qualify for Europe this season. Like a Stendel team their defending is woeful.

If Leeds finish bottom half this season the supporters will start turning against him. If you believe the modern football supporter will take losing games 5-4 every week, great entertainment they may be, they would rather win 1-0 every week playing boring football.

That is the modern reality.

Heaven forbid if Leeds were to get relegated, he would get the bullet faster than one leaving a rifle. Despite perhaps playing entertaining football, Leeds board would be lamenting the hundreds of million of pounds they would be losing for no longer being in the EPL. That Bongo is the reality of modern football.

 

I know this is ridiculous but i really do not see they hype with Leeds or Bielsa. It just comes across like a group of headless chickens against the better teams. I suppose the fact they have not spent a massive amount is one factor?

 

58 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

😂 and Tottenham Hotspur (spuds) who have NEVER won the Premier League are ….. you can’t be serious, you really are joking 🙃 

 

Tottenham have won leagues and cups and European trophies however.

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27 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I know this is ridiculous but i really do not see they hype with Leeds or Bielsa. It just comes across like a group of headless chickens against the better teams. I suppose the fact they have not spent a massive amount is one factor?

 

 

Tottenham have won leagues and cups and European trophies however.

Welcome to the we don't know anything about football, group😉

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