dougal Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I'm hoping for some legal advice on behalf of my mum and some of her cousins. My mum's aunt who had no children had to go into an old folks home after she began showing signs of Alzheimers. One of mum's cousin was granted power of attorney. He then agreed to the sale of my mum's aunt's house to his daughter. She sold her own 2 bedroom flat with no garden in a slightly depressed area of town for £140,000 and bought my mum's aunt's 3 bedroom semi detached house with sizeable front and rear gardens for only £100,000. My mum's aunt was from a large family and the aunt had 12 nieces and nephews who all had at least two kids each, meaning that there are over 20 people who each have the same relationship to my mum's aunt as the one who was able to buy her house for less than market value. I wanted to check if this was allowed?? Does the house need to be put on the market?? Can it be sold for way below market value just to satisfy a family member's want for a bigger house?? I was under the impression that the house would kind of be used as a collateral for the cost of her time spent in the old folks home?? Is this right?? A month ago my mum's aunt passed away and my mum's cousin said that all the money that my aunt had was gone and so there was nothing for any of the family in her will. Is there any grounds on which to challenge what has gone on or does having power of attorney mean that selling the house to his daughter and not offering it to any other family member is okay from a legal standpoint?? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. TLDR - Mum's cousin sold his aunt's house to his daughter for way below market value without consulting the rest of the family. Hoping to find out if that is legal or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Doesn’t sound right, on the face of it. Either speak to a solicitor or these guys. https://www.publicguardian-scotland.gov.uk/home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 HMRC would very probably view that as "deliberate impoverishment" and hit the estate for IHT on the full market value of the house. They would also very possibly view it as fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 hours ago, dougal said: I'm hoping for some legal advice on behalf of my mum and some of her cousins. My mum's aunt who had no children had to go into an old folks home after she began showing signs of Alzheimers. One of mum's cousin was granted power of attorney. He then agreed to the sale of my mum's aunt's house to his daughter. She sold her own 2 bedroom flat with no garden in a slightly depressed area of town for £140,000 and bought my mum's aunt's 3 bedroom semi detached house with sizeable front and rear gardens for only £100,000. My mum's aunt was from a large family and the aunt had 12 nieces and nephews who all had at least two kids each, meaning that there are over 20 people who each have the same relationship to my mum's aunt as the one who was able to buy her house for less than market value. I wanted to check if this was allowed?? Does the house need to be put on the market?? Can it be sold for way below market value just to satisfy a family member's want for a bigger house?? I was under the impression that the house would kind of be used as a collateral for the cost of her time spent in the old folks home?? Is this right?? A month ago my mum's aunt passed away and my mum's cousin said that all the money that my aunt had was gone and so there was nothing for any of the family in her will. Is there any grounds on which to challenge what has gone on or does having power of attorney mean that selling the house to his daughter and not offering it to any other family member is okay from a legal standpoint?? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. TLDR - Mum's cousin sold his aunt's house to his daughter for way below market value without consulting the rest of the family. Hoping to find out if that is legal or not. Are you in Edinburgh? https://www.citizensadviceedinburgh.org.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, dougal said: I'm hoping for some legal advice on behalf of my mum and some of her cousins. My mum's aunt who had no children had to go into an old folks home after she began showing signs of Alzheimers. One of mum's cousin was granted power of attorney. He then agreed to the sale of my mum's aunt's house to his daughter. She sold her own 2 bedroom flat with no garden in a slightly depressed area of town for £140,000 and bought my mum's aunt's 3 bedroom semi detached house with sizeable front and rear gardens for only £100,000. My mum's aunt was from a large family and the aunt had 12 nieces and nephews who all had at least two kids each, meaning that there are over 20 people who each have the same relationship to my mum's aunt as the one who was able to buy her house for less than market value. I wanted to check if this was allowed?? Does the house need to be put on the market?? Can it be sold for way below market value just to satisfy a family member's want for a bigger house?? I was under the impression that the house would kind of be used as a collateral for the cost of her time spent in the old folks home?? Is this right?? A month ago my mum's aunt passed away and my mum's cousin said that all the money that my aunt had was gone and so there was nothing for any of the family in her will. Is there any grounds on which to challenge what has gone on or does having power of attorney mean that selling the house to his daughter and not offering it to any other family member is okay from a legal standpoint?? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. TLDR - Mum's cousin sold his aunt's house to his daughter for way below market value without consulting the rest of the family. Hoping to find out if that is legal or not. Nothing to force him into offering the property to the whole family The sale may have been forced to cover costs of the care home, the urgency of which could have forced a quicker sale at below market value (you don't say what market value was of that house just compared it to a flat which could be in a totally different area) The 100k could quite easily have been used up paying for the care home, how long was she there before she passed? The price the cousins daughter got for her flat is irrelevant Edited August 31, 2020 by Ribble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) I've attached a couple of clauses from a pretty baulk standard POA. I'd think on the face of it this says more about the members of your family, but that's families for you. The under-selling may be a point but there would be no stamp duty, or Scots equivalent and doesn't appear to be an estate at IHT levels. The Attorney is meant out carry the wishes of the person as if it was the person themselves and notably what the money was spent on. Perhaps the will gave an indication of what was meant to happen on death, so ultimately in life, the wishes were being granted. If there was 'favourite' relatives that residue was to be left to, was the Attorney acting pretty much in line with the wishes etc. (I know Executor deals with Estate) Harsh relatity the world over is that some real nasty pieces of work somehow end up elderly relatives favourites. Also, the solicitor who drew up the Attorney should have interviewed your mum's aunt if still good mental health, notably for the POA to make sure they were confident that the Attorney wasn't putting any undue pressure etc for own benefit. PS - just a personal and non legal trained viewpoint. As ever the case on JKB. . Edited August 31, 2020 by DETTY29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Some real despicable people out there. Hope you can do something about this, but honestly don’t hold out any hope of anyone else in your family seeing any of the inheritance. You find out a lot about some people when money’s involved😡🤬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirt of 98 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I call BS on this. Canny do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 10 hours ago, dougal said: I'm hoping for some legal advice on behalf of my mum and some of her cousins. My mum's aunt who had no children had to go into an old folks home after she began showing signs of Alzheimers. One of mum's cousin was granted power of attorney. He then agreed to the sale of my mum's aunt's house to his daughter. She sold her own 2 bedroom flat with no garden in a slightly depressed area of town for £140,000 and bought my mum's aunt's 3 bedroom semi detached house with sizeable front and rear gardens for only £100,000. My mum's aunt was from a large family and the aunt had 12 nieces and nephews who all had at least two kids each, meaning that there are over 20 people who each have the same relationship to my mum's aunt as the one who was able to buy her house for less than market value. I wanted to check if this was allowed?? Does the house need to be put on the market?? Can it be sold for way below market value just to satisfy a family member's want for a bigger house?? I was under the impression that the house would kind of be used as a collateral for the cost of her time spent in the old folks home?? Is this right?? A month ago my mum's aunt passed away and my mum's cousin said that all the money that my aunt had was gone and so there was nothing for any of the family in her will. Is there any grounds on which to challenge what has gone on or does having power of attorney mean that selling the house to his daughter and not offering it to any other family member is okay from a legal standpoint?? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. TLDR - Mum's cousin sold his aunt's house to his daughter for way below market value without consulting the rest of the family. Hoping to find out if that is legal or not. No you cannae sell the hoose tae yer daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said: I call BS on this. Canny do that. Certainly seems implausible that any lawyer would sign off such a deal. As said above all sorts of issues to consider relating to capital gains, inheritance tax, never mind division of assets. Was there a will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, frankblack said: Certainly seems implausible that any lawyer would sign off such a deal. As said above all sorts of issues to consider relating to capital gains, inheritance tax, never mind division of assets. Was there a will? One minor thing I discovered in my own very recent studies of this subject is that our son who has power of Attorney and is the Executor for my estate will be held responsible to pay before he gets anything the money left to our grandchildren, I was told it is wiser to name a percentage rather than a sum of money as this gives him some protection. My wife and I had seperate but similar wills, it will actually be into next year before my wifes estate is completed with a submission of 2020 Income Tax.I have found to my chagrin it is not easy, and have to say the story told is so different to what one can do here. I am just waiting for the change of Title so I can sell the house and move into somewhere that some care is available if I come to need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Cade said: https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/ Those are the kind of terms I've been aware of. Even my parents took financial advice over inheritance tax as there is so many ways the government can get you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irufushi Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Do you not get hammered with tax for selling a property under market value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Irufushi said: Do you not get hammered with tax for selling a property under market value? https://www.propertyroad.co.uk/selling-property-to-family-member-below-value/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) Have reread the opening post, no mention of what the deceased womans will said should be done with the estate and to whom it should go. nI have recent experience through dealing with my wifes will where as in both our cases all was left to the survivor. There are in my case many hoops to jump through before the Will has been executed, there are also many officials who want to see death certificates and true copies of the Will. The story as told is so different to my experiences which I have said will not be over until the 2020 tax return has been submitted and settled. Edited September 1, 2020 by Sharpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougal Posted September 1, 2020 Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 Thanks for all the information. I've passed on the relevant stuff and included links to websites etc. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this one way or another soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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