Covid Bigger Picture

[5-1Jambo]

So two of the top teams in the Premiership have players that test positive. This shows the difficulty teams have of controlling players movements. The Scottish Government (SG) then issues a warning to ALL of Scottish football that it will be closed down if it steps out of line again. 

So if SG shuts down Scottish football, who has the most to lose??? 

Not Hearts, we are in the Championship with genorous fan base.

Maybe just maybe, teams who think they should be in the Champions League every year. 

So question is how do you reduce the risk of getting Scottish football shut down and saving your investment? 

Reduce the risk by reducing the number of teams playing. If only 12 teams are playing then it's easier to control the risk and your right to be in the Champions League. 

Thoughts??? 

 

[hearts00]

This was always my ultimate outrage about it and the fact no compensations was offered to Hearts. Demoted out of a league without the season ending into a league that will play a restricted number of games and always the tail risk that we are not allowed back up this season for different reasons. 
 

If that was to transpire however, I would be back in court in what surely is an open and shut restriction of trade case. 
 

What has been proved Is that teams in the Premiership will take care of themselves and will not give two hoots if we are left down again and the whole sporting integrity / we must have promotion and relegation lines will just disappear. 
 

 

 

[5-1Jambo]

The phrases 'sporting integrity" and "42 clubs interests" where used by Doncaster. I am now starting to think that AB and the Hearts model looked threatening to Mr Lawell. 

[RobNox]

The real scandal is that postponing Celtic and Aberdeen games punishes their opponents as much as it punishes those clubs.

 

Should Celtic and Aberdeen not be 'oot ra gemme' as the prick of a QC who represented the SPFL against us and Partick suggested was a remedy against us because we dared to exercise our legal rights without first seeking permission from the SFA?

 

Our move to take legal action against the SPFL did not put any lives at risk, unlike the actions of some selfish Aberdeen and Celtic players. 

[Danny Wilde]

Christ it couldn't be simpler. The Scottish Govt told the SFA/SFPL Joint Response Group (JRG) to get their house in order after the Aberdeen and Celtic debacles.

 

The JRG have used that as free license to single out Hearts for (further) arbitrary punishment. Why? Because they can. Because we're the club marked out for a kicking by the SFA, the SFPL, and virtually every other member club.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Danny Wilde

[Bazzas right boot]

It's a possibility. 

 

However, in that scenario the lc and sc are humped too, so I can't see it. 

 

I also think they need to put it to a vote. 

The question is would it pass, ironically many PT clubs might be happy to hibernate, but I think it would fail at the vote. 

 

Amongst all the emotion, I can't see the sg shutting football down, however I can see them being very cautious regarding fans. 

I cannot see any fans at grounds until next year, this turn of events hasn't helped. 

 

In that scenerio, Scottish football has a major problem including celtic and rangers. 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[RobNox]

3 minutes ago, 5-1Jambo said:

The phrases 'sporting integrity" and "42 clubs interests" where used by Doncaster. I am now starting to think that AB and the Hearts model looked threatening to Mr Lawell. 

 

Lawell gets his fat bonus every year by delivering profits to the billionaire Dermot Desmond, who picks up a hefty dividend on his investment in Celtic.

 

We have benefactors who have not only pumped money into Hearts but have also put money into Scottish football in general, these people are genuine philanthropists.

 

Dermot Desmond has not put a penny of his money into Scottish football, he's only interested in making a fast buck.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

I honesty don't think anyone on all these committees the SFA set up thought about the part-time clubs and how that works with the whole "bubble" idea and potentially spreading COVID to Premiership clubs, thus threatening the TV deal and all that. If they had they wouldn't have decided so early to play the BetFred cup. Not only does that cup increase the likelihood of an outbreak and shutdown of the game, but it increases fixture congestion even before the inevitable postponements of some of those games.

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[5-1Jambo]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

I honesty don't think anyone on all these committees the SFA set up thought about the part-time clubs and how that works with the whole "bubble" idea and potentially spreading COVID to Premiership clubs, thus threatening the TV deal and all that. If they had they wouldn't have decided so early to play the BetFred cup. Not only does that cup increase the likelihood of an outbreak and shutdown of the game, but it increases fixture congestion even before the inevitable postponements of some of those games.

 

Exactly this. So which club has the biggest pay day to lose?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, 5-1Jambo said:

Exactly this. So which club has the biggest pay day to lose?

 

We all know the answer to that.

 

I think we'll see the BetFred Cup cancelled next, no matter what happens with training or Premiership games.

[RobNox]

6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

It's a possibility. 

 

However, in that scenario the lc and sc are humped too, so I can't see it. 

 

I also think they need to put it to a vote. 

The question is would it pass, ironically many PT clubs might be happy to hibernate, but I think it would fail at the vote. 

 

Amongst all the emotion, I can't see the sg shutting football down, however I can see them being very cautious regarding fans. 

I cannot see any fans at grounds until next year, this turn of events hasn't helped. 

 

In that scenerio, Scottish football has a major problem including celtic and rangers. 

 

 

 

I just pick out that one point in your post, which I think is very relevant.  Part time clubs who could effectively mothball during Covid-19 were allowed to vote on the impacts on full time clubs, who employ a large number of people.  Too many of these diddy clubs voted to put people out of work because they perceived some small gain for themselves.  **** them all, I say.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

17 minutes ago, RobNox said:

 

I just pick out that one point in your post, which I think is very relevant.  Part time clubs who could effectively mothball during Covid-19 were allowed to vote on the impacts on full time clubs, who employ a large number of people.  Too many of these diddy clubs voted to put people out of work because they perceived some small gain for themselves.  **** them all, I say.

 

Not only that but the SPFL and co have had months to work out:

 

How much it costs to test

How to manage "bubbles" etc with part-time clubs

The risk of part-time players not in bubbles spreading COVID to FT clubs that can maintain bubbles

 

They should have done a risk analysis and presented the costs to all clubs and all clubs should have had the option to mothball or prove they will be able to operate within safety protocols and pay for testing. All clubs confident of meeting the criteria should then have been divided into leagues for a one or two season spell while the other clubs mothball, which the PT and smaller FT ones could do easily. Clubs could have been told - mess up the protocols and you'll be thrown out and will forfeit points during the season.

Edited August 13, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Beast Boy]

43 minutes ago, Danny Wilde said:

Christ it couldn't be simpler. The Scottish Govt told the SFA/SFPL Joint Response Group (JRG) to get their house in order after the Aberdeen and Celtic debacles.

 

The JRG have used that as free license to single out Hearts for (further) arbitrary punishment. Why? Because they can. Because we're the club marked out for a kicking by the SFA, the SFPL, and virtually every other member club.

[Kiwidoug]

4 hours ago, Danny Wilde said:

Christ it couldn't be simpler. The Scottish Govt told the SFA/SFPL Joint Response Group (JRG) to get their house in order after the Aberdeen and Celtic debacles.

 

The JRG have used that as free license to single out Hearts for (further) arbitrary punishment. Why? Because they can. Because we're the club marked out for a kicking by the SFA, the SFPL, and virtually every other member club.

You simply can't put any other complexion on it.  That's exactly what they've done and I doubt if there was even an insincere word of commiseration.

 

My only consolation is that instead of meekly accepting these outrages, the Hearts board is clearly seething.

[Fort Vallance]

12 hours ago, RobNox said:

The real scandal is that postponing Celtic and Aberdeen games punishes their opponents as much as it punishes those clubs.

 

Should Celtic and Aberdeen not be 'oot ra gemme' as the prick of a QC who represented the SPFL against us and Partick suggested was a remedy against us because we dared to exercise our legal rights without first seeking permission from the SFA?

 

Our move to take legal action against the SPFL did not put any lives at risk, unlike the actions of some selfish Aberdeen and Celtic players. 

It punishes every club in all four divisions if the broadcasters ask for compensation which I assume they will.

[underwaterwoodwelder]

I’m not sure what is going on at the moment. 
 

Hearts Fc told to stop training however my son plays with the pro youth set up Fife Elite and is training tomorrow.

[davemclaren]

10 minutes ago, underwaterwoodwelder said:

I’m not sure what is going on at the moment. 
 

Hearts Fc told to stop training however my son plays with the pro youth set up Fife Elite and is training tomorrow.

Over 18 only. 

[CavySlaveJambo]

13 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

They should have done a risk analysis and presented the costs to all clubs and all clubs should have had the option to mothball or prove they will be able to operate within safety protocols and pay for testing. All clubs confident of meeting the criteria should then have been divided into leagues for a one or two season spell while the other clubs mothball, which the PT and smaller FT ones could do easily. Clubs could have been told - mess up the protocols and you'll be thrown out and will forfeit points during the season.

That is just too sensible an idea for those in Hampden to have thought of.  

[Masonic]

why hearts never contacted CAS il never know

[3Bigcupsoon]

4 hours ago, underwaterwoodwelder said:

I’m not sure what is going on at the moment. 
 

Hearts Fc told to stop training however my son plays with the pro youth set up Fife Elite and is training tomorrow.

As someone else posted this is for over 18 only. What this means is that the behaviour of 2 Premiership teams has closed down all adult football with the exception of Premiership football. All football fans and players should be appalled at this no matter what team they support.

 

[The Roller]

53 minutes ago, Masonic said:

why hearts never contacted CAS il never know

Once we don’t have a league to compete in I’d assume we’d head there.

[Ron Burgundy]

17 hours ago, 5-1Jambo said:

The phrases 'sporting integrity" and "42 clubs interests" where used by Doncaster. I am now starting to think that AB and the Hearts model looked threatening to Mr Lawell. 

In what way?  On the pitch we were hopeless.

[¼½¾]

1 hour ago, Masonic said:

why hearts never contacted CAS il never know

There's probably some little known fricken rule saying we have to ask the SFA's permission. 

[sac]

Can’t play competitively till October(maybe) & now banned from training through no fault of our own, yet we are expected to be ready for a cup semi final at such a huge disadvantage. Criminal.

[TheOak88]

6 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

In what way?  On the pitch we were hopeless.

 

Lawell is terrified that are next 5 year plan will work and we will win the Prem every year and be competing in Champ League. 

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

17 hours ago, RobNox said:

 

I just pick out that one point in your post, which I think is very relevant.  Part time clubs who could effectively mothball during Covid-19 were allowed to vote on the impacts on full time clubs, who employ a large number of people.  Too many of these diddy clubs voted to put people out of work because they perceived some small gain for themselves.  **** them all, I say.

 

One of the big ironies that occurred to me during recent events was that the SPFL was set up because the "big clubs" thought that the "small clubs" had too much influence - in the old SFA model - over the big money events.  And yet the SPFL had to relay on an SFA arbitration panel to save their bacon when Hearts and Partick took legal action.

[south morocco]

23 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Lawell is terrified that are next 5 year plan will work and we will win the Prem every year and be competing in Champ League. 

Lol, I’d doubt that mate 

[TheOak88]

3 minutes ago, south morocco said:

Lol, I’d doubt that mate 

 

The hierarchy at Hearts clearly know how to run a successful football club. OF must be terrified. 

[upgotheheads]

19 hours ago, 5-1Jambo said:

The phrases 'sporting integrity" and "42 clubs interests" where used by Doncaster. I am now starting to think that AB and the Hearts model looked threatening to Mr Lawell. 

 

I think you're right. The one good thing about this whole shambles is that we, the supporters of Hearts, have risen to the challenge. From the away game boycott to season ticket sales to increasing FOH subs (I'm in the process of doing that right now), we have shown a belief and togetherness that must be the envy of every other board of directors in the league.

[frankblack]

Hearts need to ignore the SPFL unless they can explain why teams that broke the rules can train and we get victimised without compensation for wages now due as players are out of furlough.

 

Players must resume training from Monday and the Scottish Government needs to step in and take control of this and put the SPFL in its place.

Edited August 14, 2020 by frankblack

[Anything2]

3 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Lawell is terrified that are next 5 year plan will work and we will win the Prem every year and be competing in Champ League. 

The only thing that terrified Celtic was the league getting voided putting their winning streak and champions league place at risk. The problem for the league is that every decision is made based on how it will this affect the OF rather than what is best for the collective. 

[5-1Jambo]

5 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

I think you're right. The one good thing about this whole shambles is that we, the supporters of Hearts, have risen to the challenge. From the away game boycott to season ticket sales to increasing FOH subs (I'm in the process of doing that right now), we have shown a belief and togetherness that must be the envy of every other board of directors in the league.

Unfortunately it is also a massive threat to the establishment. 

[5-1Jambo]

7 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

In what way?  On the pitch we were hopeless.

I get what you are emplying. But not all successful teams or companies start without failure/ bad decisions. The good teams and companies learn from these mistakes. History is full of examples of the establishment trying to keep the upstarts down. 

The current Hearts company is operating in a different world from pre Romanovov. AB is trying to grow our Club and Business. FOH is the future of how Scottish Football clubs should be funded and run. AB has always been honest in saying she is a business woman trying to run a football club. She has never claimed to be an expert in football tactics or how a team should be run. She has put faith in football people and is learning that not everyone had the best intentions of Scottish football at heart. Guaranteed she is not someone who will make the same mistake twice. I believe that our club is in a stronger position than every club except Celtic to survive COVID.

Rangers will fold if they can't play football in front of their home crowds. Celtic have historical Irish benefactors but will that support still be there if Scottish clubs can't play in the Champions League?

Aberdeen are toiling and Hibs can't pay players when football is stopped which it will be very soon. 

We will survive but how many others will? 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

6 hours ago, 5-1Jambo said:

I get what you are emplying. But not all successful teams or companies start without failure/ bad decisions. The good teams and companies learn from these mistakes. History is full of examples of the establishment trying to keep the upstarts down. 

The current Hearts company is operating in a different world from pre Romanovov. AB is trying to grow our Club and Business. FOH is the future of how Scottish Football clubs should be funded and run. AB has always been honest in saying she is a business woman trying to run a football club. She has never claimed to be an expert in football tactics or how a team should be run. She has put faith in football people and is learning that not everyone had the best intentions of Scottish football at heart. Guaranteed she is not someone who will make the same mistake twice. I believe that our club is in a stronger position than every club except Celtic to survive COVID.

Rangers will fold if they can't play football in front of their home crowds. Celtic have historical Irish benefactors but will that support still be there if Scottish clubs can't play in the Champions League?

Aberdeen are toiling and Hibs can't pay players when football is stopped which it will be very soon. 

We will survive but how many others will? 

 

Not many is my guess and no tears will be shed in the Saunders household.

 

 

Eff em all

Edited August 15, 2020 by FinnBarr Saunders

[jamboozy]

7 hours ago, 5-1Jambo said:

I get what you are emplying. But not all successful teams or companies start without failure/ bad decisions. The good teams and companies learn from these mistakes. History is full of examples of the establishment trying to keep the upstarts down. 

The current Hearts company is operating in a different world from pre Romanovov. AB is trying to grow our Club and Business. FOH is the future of how Scottish Football clubs should be funded and run. AB has always been honest in saying she is a business woman trying to run a football club. She has never claimed to be an expert in football tactics or how a team should be run. She has put faith in football people and is learning that not everyone had the best intentions of Scottish football at heart. Guaranteed she is not someone who will make the same mistake twice. I believe that our club is in a stronger position than every club except Celtic to survive COVID.

Rangers will fold if they can't play football in front of their home crowds. Celtic have historical Irish benefactors but will that support still be there if Scottish clubs can't play in the Champions League?

Aberdeen are toiling and Hibs can't pay players when football is stopped which it will be very soon. 

We will survive but how many others will? 

Good post,   the only thing I would add is that The Rangers and Celtic may not be able to sustain the levels of reimbursement to the type of players they have on their books,  to that extent The current Covid 19 situation could well become a leveller* , the longer it goes on and the longer the SPFL/SFA show their levels of ineptitude, well,  that will not help the OF in any way whatsoever.

 

 

 

*want this horrid virus gone

Edited August 15, 2020 by jamboozy

[underwaterwoodwelder]

17 hours ago, 3Bigcupsoon said:

As someone else posted this is for over 18 only. What this means is that the behaviour of 2 Premiership teams has closed down all adult football with the exception of Premiership football. All football fans and players should be appalled at this no matter what team they support.

 

Thanks for the update.

[wavydavy]

On 13/08/2020 at 23:53, Danny Wilde said:

Christ it couldn't be simpler. The Scottish Govt told the SFA/SFPL Joint Response Group (JRG) to get their house in order after the Aberdeen and Celtic debacles.

 

The JRG have used that as free license to single out Hearts for (further) arbitrary punishment. Why? Because they can. Because we're the club marked out for a kicking by the SFA, the SFPL, and virtually every other member club.

 

Ably supported by clubs such as Alloa and Morton to name but two who couldn't control their glee at our predicament.

 

If that is not bringing the game into disrepute then I don't know what is but I very much doubt the compliance officer will be knocking on any of their doors.

 

We have a semi final to play so surely we are justified in being allowed to train. They can make exceptions for a women's team so why not us. WE are complying with all the rules unlike some clubs.

 

It really is just a witch hunt now.

Edited August 15, 2020 by wavydavy

[FarmerTweedy]

17 hours ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

 

One of the big ironies that occurred to me during recent events was that the SPFL was set up because the "big clubs" thought that the "small clubs" had too much influence - in the old SFA model - over the big money events.  And yet the SPFL had to relay on an SFA arbitration panel to save their bacon when Hearts and Partick took legal action.

That's not true.  The SPL was set up because the "big clubs" thought the "small clubs" had too much influence in the old SFL model. The SPFL was formed when the old rangers died, fan outrage forced the remaining SPL clubs to refuse the new rangers to simply let the new rangers take their place in the SPL and those clubs realised that merging the SPL and SFL back together again was the only way they could influence what then happened with the new rangers (including TV rights to their league games for the next few years). 

[Turkishcap]

16 hours ago, frankblack said:

Hearts need to ignore the SPFL unless they can explain why teams that broke the rules can train and we get victimised without compensation for wages now due as players are out of furlough.

 

Players must resume training from Monday and the Scottish Government needs to step in and take control of this and put the SPFL in its place.

Yep my thinking too.