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Present and future governance of the club.


David Black

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To clarify I am in no way criticising Ann Budge or any of of Directors for the overwhelming good work they have done over the past 6 years, except the catastrophic running of the football department. That has to be addressed going forward or else the same problems could arise again. We all know the mistakes made, but an equally big mistake is to forget them, and do exactly as Doncaster would wish us to do and just move on. The make up of both the club board and FOH is almost predominately made up of people with financial or legal backgrounds. That has to change by electing a wider range of abilities, although that requires those type of individuals to stand. Personally I have no abilities and will also be 75 next January, a tad useless and old. I would love to see JJ standing for election. Then we come to after the shares have been transferred from Ann to FOH.  Why then do we need two boards of directors. We are all one and surely a more streamlined operation would be having only one board. I am not aware of Barcelona or any of the German clubs having two boards yet they seem to run very efficiently. I am not looking for revenge or demonising anyone, but feel these issues should addressed to ensure a more balanced board and a more efficient one and that we never make the same mistakes again. 

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1 minute ago, David Black said:

To clarify I am in no way criticising Ann Budge or any of of Directors for the overwhelming good work they have done over the past 6 years, except the catastrophic running of the football department. That has to be addressed going forward or else the same problems could arise again. We all know the mistakes made, but an equally big mistake is to forget them, and do exactly as Doncaster would wish us to do and just move on. The make up of both the club board and FOH is almost predominately made up of people with financial or legal backgrounds. That has to change by electing a wider range of abilities, although that requires those type of individuals to stand. Personally I have no abilities and will also be 75 next January, a tad useless and old. I would love to see JJ standing for election. Then we come to after the shares have been transferred from Ann to FOH.  Why then do we need two boards of directors. We are all one and surely a more streamlined operation would be having only one board. I am not aware of Barcelona or any of the German clubs having two boards yet they seem to run very efficiently. I am not looking for revenge or demonising anyone, but feel these issues should addressed to ensure a more balanced board and a more efficient one and that we never make the same mistakes again. 

The last thing Hearts need is a contingent from JKB running the club. That way spells financial disaster and all that entails.

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3 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

The last thing Hearts need is a contingent from JKB running the club. That way spells financial disaster and all that entails.

There are some exceptionally clever people on here. 

Edited by GinRummy
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3 minutes ago, David Black said:

To clarify I am in no way criticising Ann Budge or any of of Directors for the overwhelming good work they have done over the past 6 years, except the catastrophic running of the football department. That has to be addressed going forward or else the same problems could arise again. We all know the mistakes made, but an equally big mistake is to forget them, and do exactly as Doncaster would wish us to do and just move on. The make up of both the club board and FOH is almost predominately made up of people with financial or legal backgrounds. That has to change by electing a wider range of abilities, although that requires those type of individuals to stand. Personally I have no abilities and will also be 75 next January, a tad useless and old. I would love to see JJ standing for election. Then we come to after the shares have been transferred from Ann to FOH.  Why then do we need two boards of directors. We are all one and surely a more streamlined operation would be having only one board. I am not aware of Barcelona or any of the German clubs having two boards yet they seem to run very efficiently. I am not looking for revenge or demonising anyone, but feel these issues should addressed to ensure a more balanced board and a more efficient one and that we never make the same mistakes again. 

FoH is a separate organisation and is a vehicle for supporter ownership of the club. It is separate from the club which will have many more shareholders than just FoH. 

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2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

There are some exceptionally clever people on here. 

 

I'm just posting so that you can refer to me by name from now on without breaking the rules. ;)

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4 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Personally i hope Mrs Budge is running the buisness side of the club for many more years 

I have no qualms with that, but as you say the business side.

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15 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

The last thing Hearts need is a contingent from JKB running the club. That way spells financial disaster and all that entails.

I never suggested a contingent from JKB, God forbid.

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6 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Personally i hope Mrs Budge is running the buisness side of the club for many more years 

Absolutely. As for the playing side, you only have to see how variant people’s opinions are on individually players to realise that’s a job for a seasoned expert.

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16 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

There are some exceptionally clever people on here. 

 

Thanks, I have certificates you know.

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1 minute ago, graygo said:

Is JJ not 70 this year? 

 

What exactly are the football decisions that the board got wrong?

:cornette:

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2 minutes ago, Pagey said:

 

Thanks, I have certificates you know.

A good few on here are certified. 

Edited by OldGorgie
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Cut The Crap

I assume we're awaiting the final outcome of arbitration before outlining the future direction in terms of governance.

 

It seems inconceivable to me that Dr Budge can continue at the helm after what has been a disastrous last three years in my view.

 

Baffled really that anyone thinks she can come back from that with any sort of fiscal or organizational credibility. 

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22 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

The last thing Hearts need is a contingent from JKB running the club. That way spells financial disaster and all that entails.

Absolute nonsense.

 

My picks from here would be Mr Lawson & Mr Albert, all round good eggs.

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4 minutes ago, graygo said:

Is JJ not 70 this year? 

 

What exactly are the football decisions that the board got wrong?

 

:D

 

can-of-worms-do-not-open-joseph-farris-n

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Fxxx the SPFL
2 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

A good few on here are certified. 

definitely lock them up and throw away the keys ;)

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20 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

FoH is a separate organisation and is a vehicle for supporter ownership of the club. It is separate from the club which will have many more shareholders than just FoH. 

Good point. Never thought about it that way. Hey ho, back to the drawing board.

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4 minutes ago, smiler said:

Absolute nonsense.

 

My picks from here would be Mr Lawson & Mr Albert, all round good eggs.

How about I8and JamboAl?

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1 minute ago, Section Q said:

Starting to get boring again...

Yes the team's in, in full force.

At least this time they've started their own thread.

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Weakened Offender
42 minutes ago, David Black said:

To clarify I am in no way criticising Ann Budge or any of of Directors for the overwhelming good work they have done over the past 6 years, except the catastrophic running of the football department. 

 

 

Jesus Christ. We had two great seasons, two average seasons, one really unlucky season and a nightmare season. 

 

Get a grip FFS. 

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3 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

 

Jesus Christ. We had two great seasons, two average seasons, one really unlucky season and a nightmare season. 

 

Get a grip FFS. 

Agreed, but that is a gradual decline season on season. Surely that must be a concern.

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I think one of Budge's failings is not appointing a CEO to run the football side of the club and leaning on Levein too heavily. I'm hoping now that he has left she will run it more smoothly and with JJ being there it surely can only go one way. 

 

With the financial backing we have and the FOH payments each month we should really be head and shoulders clear in third. I believe in Karma big time and I think when we finally get it right and click we will blow the rest away.

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I hope to see Ann appoint a CEO and become chairwomen she needs to be removed from football decisions. The club needs to move back to an ethos of a football team not a pet project for experiments or a vehicle to improve scottish football.

 

The above has been tried and its failed dramitically and that rests at Anne's door and no one else. I appreciate her efforts and as @Selkirk Jambo alluded to her business acumen is still required but I would like to see that on a part time basis similar to what JJ is doing at the moment on the football side.

 

Lets get back to our roots.

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Weakened Offender
10 minutes ago, David Black said:

Agreed, but that is a gradual decline season on season. Surely that must be a concern.

 

We aren't agreeing. You described the football under her reign as catastrophic. I emphatically disagreed and told you to get a grip. 

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16 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

 

Jesus Christ. We had two great seasons, two average seasons, one really unlucky season and a nightmare season. 

 

Get a grip FFS. 


When was the great seasons? 

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21 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

 

Jesus Christ. We had two great seasons, two average seasons, one really unlucky season and a nightmare season. 

 

Get a grip FFS. 


Jeez feckin deluded...get a grip yourself

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OP joined in May and seems to have spent most of his posts having a go at the club/Budge/Levein.

Everyone agrees that Budge showed too much faith and patience in Levein. Not got a clue why we need to go round and round repeating this. Let's see how Robbie gets on once we can get back to playing football

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What we need is: 

Budge to be removed completely from everything football operations and focus solely on the business side of things, she must not be allowed to interfere with anything to do with the team, fans etc. A footballing based CEO must be appointed, who actually knows about football. 
 

A whole new revamp on our recruitment setup, fire John Murray and bring in a new chief scout or we go down the sporting director path and bring in someone who helps out with recruitment and the overall club structure, they will work closely with the manager (Neilson), Academy manager (Arnott), Budge (business and financial operations) and the new football CEO. 
 

Something like this:

 

Board - Football based CEO, Budge, Duncan, Hogg, Cumming, Windrum, Wallace (FOH Chairman, unsure on him so far, the FOH’s silence over Levein’s reign was extremely worrying), Duncan and Jim Jeffries (board advisor)

 

Then we need a sporting director to work with Robbie Neilson and Roger Arnott. This will help identify a long-term recruitment plan and will also help forge a path for first team football for youth players, we have not produced nearly enough quality over the years considering our facilities and investment. 
 

We have to prioritise actually winning football matches again. 
 

 

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5 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

We aren't agreeing. You described the football under her reign as catastrophic. I emphatically disagreed and told you to get a grip. 

So you don't think that over the last 5 years where the standard of football has got worse year on year, our league placing lower and lower and more money has been wasted year on year is not something that should be addressed. We were supposed to to get a review of the football department from Ann at least 18 months ago. Do we just accept this and say " oh well, these things happen". You might , I suspect most don't.

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3 minutes ago, XB52 said:

OP joined in May and seems to have spent most of his posts having a go at the club/Budge/Levein.

Everyone agrees that Budge showed too much faith and patience in Levein. Not got a clue why we need to go round and round repeating this. Let's see how Robbie gets on once we can get back to playing football

I did indeed join in May and like every one else can comment on any issue I wish. If the governance of the club is not deemed important after the position we find ourselves then God knows what is. If everything turns out fine and rosy over the next few years, I'll be as delighted as anyone.

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@David Black I agree. I think we need to really look at the football department and how accountable it is to the board moving forward. I'm under no illusions that Levein was given Carte Blanche due to his relationship with Budge. I'm fairly sure she won't allow herself to be put in that position again, however, that doesn't address the problem when she does eventually step down. 

 

I think first and foremost we need to never be in the position again where the manager of our football club is a director. That was utterly farcical looking back on it and Levein failing to step down in the summer I think its really poor governance. I really liked the DOF model, I felt that it was aimed at providing the continuity that clubs who operate in our price range have real difficulty obtaining. Y'know, any success for players, they move on. Any success for Managers, they move on. But the DOF remains so continuity is created. Long term football strategy can be pursued and we can escape the short termism which often becomes a reality at most clubs. 

 

I don't want to get into more Levein bashing, we've been there and done it. Right idea, wrong guy. I think its something which needs to be tried again. I don't think the idea is flawed, I think our execution of it and choice of personnel to carry it out was though. 

 

Whilst I do absolutely agree with the principle that the club should be 'fan owned, but not fan run', there also needs to be some kind of override to that for when things are spiralling like they quite clearly were. I don't quite understand the purpose of having FOH board members who can't act decisively if the need arises. If Budge had been stronger and forced Levein to step down as Manager in that summer or the previous summer we'd not be in this position. 

 

I believe we'll be a lot closer to getting it right moving forward. A broader range of perspectives on the FOH board could be a good thing. I think that had Ann brought in 2 parties to handle football matters who aren't deeply linked then I think we may have avoided this mess. For example, Levein as DOF and JJ as Footballing adviser. The idea being that one can call out the other, so if Levein was BSing then JJ could highlight that. It would have brought a much higher level of accountability and transparency to the board from the footballing department. I think Ann put far too much trust in one person who wasn't properly challenged on footballing matters. 

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Guest ToqueJambo
2 hours ago, Famous 1874 said:

 

We have to prioritise actually winning football matches again. 
 

 

 

 

This sums it up for me. Get to cup finals, win the odd cup, do well in the league every 2 or 3 years at least so we have a European adventure even 2 or 3 years. As others have said, it was nice that we tried something different but Scottish football is Scottish football. It's not the place for new ideas. And it's certainly not our job to lead the way and try to change things. Time for someone else to step up.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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Weakened Offender
2 hours ago, Last Laff said:


When was the great seasons? 

 

Romping the Championship and qualifying for Europe the following season. 

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Weakened Offender
2 hours ago, David Black said:

So you don't think that over the last 5 years where the standard of football has got worse year on year, our league placing lower and lower and more money has been wasted year on year is not something that should be addressed. We were supposed to to get a review of the football department from Ann at least 18 months ago. Do we just accept this and say " oh well, these things happen". You might , I suspect most don't.

 

I haven't suggested anyone says those things. You described the football under her tenure as a calamity. If you want to be an ubsurd drama queen then crack on. 

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4 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

The last thing Hearts need is a contingent from JKB running the club. That way spells financial disaster and all that entails.

Most sensible post of this year, or any other year for that matter. 

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4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

FoH is a separate organisation and is a vehicle for supporter ownership of the club. It is separate from the club which will have many more shareholders than just FoH. 

Hard to believe that some people can’t understand that FoH won’t own the club rather than just being the majority shareholder. We have only been discussing this for 6+ years! 

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1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Romping the Championship and qualifying for Europe the following season. 


Winning the cup is a great season.  Let’s not pretend romping the championship was on par with something great.  Europe was good the next season but still behind Aberdeen.  The last great season was 2012.  Before that 2006. 

Edited by Last Laff
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4 hours ago, graygo said:

Is JJ not 70 this year? 

 

What exactly are the football decisions that the board got wrong?

 

:vrface:

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3 hours ago, David Black said:

So you don't think that over the last 5 years where the standard of football has got worse year on year, our league placing lower and lower and more money has been wasted year on year is not something that should be addressed. We were supposed to to get a review of the football department from Ann at least 18 months ago. Do we just accept this and say " oh well, these things happen". You might , I suspect most don't.


cant argue with this. Since Neilson left it’s been absolutely brutal (except for the 10 game run). Absolutely brutal which is why we were bottom when leagues were unfairly called. 

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Weakened Offender
7 minutes ago, Last Laff said:


Winning the cup is a great season.  Let’s not pretend romping the championship was on par with something great.  Europe was good the next season but still behind Aberdeen.  The last great season was 2012.  Before that 2006. 

 

Winning a league that H1b5 and The Rangers are in, 9 months after surviving liquidation by a bawhair was a great achievement. It was a great season. But I read your contributions on here and can't be arsed debating it with you any further. 😊

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John mcCartney

Its beyond me that Budge can be seen as a good business woman when an overspend of twelve ****ing million
kicks the spuds of any fecking increase in turnover she has made.
Twelve million on that stand,a basic steel and precast concrete structure with corrugated roofing panels,basic seating
is fecking criminal.Why hasnt there been an enquiry into that n all I wonder.
We should never stop questioning Ann Budges tenure at Hmfc.

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4 hours ago, graygo said:

Is JJ not 70 this year? 

 

What exactly are the football decisions that the board got wrong?


Good one! 😂

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