Hearts v celtic - League Cup - August 1975

[Hairdryer]

2 hours ago, jbee647 said:

This combined with the last day defeat by Kilmarnock did a lot of damage, I read that our average crowds in 1960 were approximately 21,00, by 1970 it had dropped to 9,500, by 1980 they were around the 6000 mark, dark desperate days, at that time had we won twice at Easter Road , knocked Rangers out the cup  and reached two semi finals and finished 12th (18 team league then) it would be considered a half decent campaign 

Very interesting comment regarding the Kilmarnock match in 1965 I have heard

the same thing numerous times.Do you think some of the support followed Rangers after that which 

I have heard on many an occasion 

 

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, Hairdryer said:

Very interesting comment regarding the Kilmarnock match in 1965 I have heard

the same thing numerous times.Do you think some of the support followed Rangers after that which 

I have heard on many an occasion 

 

Why would they do that?

[Hairdryer]

9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Why would they do that?

Glory hunting 

[FORTHCLYDE]

I was at most of the 1970's games because I was young I didn't realise we were rubbish. 

I did know we did not turn up against Hibs except the 4-1 game.

The good thing is I saw three of the greatest ever players to play for Hearts Jim Cruickshank, Drew Busby and Donald Ford.

[Crete]

3 minutes ago, Hairdryer said:

Glory hunting 

How do you know are you a glory hunter.😄

[jbee647]

30 minutes ago, Hairdryer said:

Very interesting comment regarding the Kilmarnock match in 1965 I have heard

the same thing numerous times.Do you think some of the support followed Rangers after that which 

I have heard on many an occasion 

 

 

25 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Why would they do that?

It’s been said and written somewhere, can’t remember exactly, that we lost approximately a third of our regular attendees after the league loss to Kilmarnock in 1965.

However, don’t underestimate the effect Grandstand and World of Sport had on football attendances in that era, live horse racing and Live Rugby League would definitely have had an effect, live sport at that time would have been a huge novelty, obviously Hearts were dire from 1966 - 1983. 

Edited August 8, 2020 by jbee647

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

 

It’s been said and written somewhere, can’t remember exactly, that we lost approximately a third of our regular attendees after the league loss to Kilmarnock in 1965.

However, don’t underestimate the effect Grandstand and World of Sport had on football attendances in that era, live horse racing and Live Rugby League would definitely have had an effect, live sport at that time would have been a huge novelty, obviously Hearts were dire from 1966 - 1983. 

I think our large drop in crowds started before that season, possibly due to people not working Saturday mornings anymore. 

[jbee647]

Just now, davemclaren said:

I think our large drop in crowds started before that season, possibly due to people not working Saturday mornings anymore. 

Also a very valid point

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, jbee647 said:

Also a very valid point

I think there were many social changes from 1960 onwards that impacted crowds. 

[jbee647]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I think there were many social changes from 1960 onwards that impacted crowds. 

No Doubting, but in Hearts case bad leadership poor players, and no investment in the playing staff contributed to a massive downward spiral.

Bill Lindsay has a lot to answer for, he was chairman or on the board from League Champions in 1960 to relegation in 1977

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, jbee647 said:

No Doubting, but in Hearts case bad leadership poor players, and no investment in the playing staff contributed to a massive downward spiral.

Bill Lindsay has a lot to answer for, he was chairman or on the board from League Champions in 1960 to relegation in 1977

Certainly didn’t help. 

[assessor]

1 hour ago, Hairdryer said:

Very interesting comment regarding the Kilmarnock match in 1965 I have heard

the same thing numerous times.Do you think some of the support followed Rangers after that which 

I have heard on many an occasion 

 

you highlight a league decider we lost and a certain game in 73. In your posts. What about 5-1 2012?

[N Lincs Jambo]

1 hour ago, jbee647 said:

 

It’s been said and written somewhere, can’t remember exactly, that we lost approximately a third of our regular attendees after the league loss to Kilmarnock in 1965.

However, don’t underestimate the effect Grandstand and World of Sport had on football attendances in that era, live horse racing and Live Rugby League would definitely have had an effect, live sport at that time would have been a huge novelty, obviously Hearts were dire from 1966 - 1983. 

When I moved to Blackburn Lancs in 1989 one of the guys who was a sales director for our sister company was introduced to me. Found out he too was a Jambo and his last game was v Killie in 65. He said that what lost a lot of fans that year was how we went from being an attacking team before the New Year to trying to hold on to what we had in the 2nd half of the season, not just the Killie game.

 

 I have no idea if this is right as I was a month shy of my 2nd birthday but crowds for games outside of the OF and Hibs were more often than not under 10K pretty much up till the Mercer era and 85-86.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

When I moved to Blackburn Lancs in 1989 one of the guys who was a sales director for our sister company was introduced to me. Found out he too was a Jambo and his last game was v Killie in 65. He said that what lost a lot of fans that year was how we went from being an attacking team before the New Year to trying to hold on to what we had in the 2nd half of the season, not just the Killie game.

 

 I have no idea if this is right as I was a month shy of my 2nd birthday but crowds for games outside of the OF and Hibs were more often than not under 10K pretty much up till the Mercer era and 85-86.

I am a month and 3 days older than you.

Or Hearts supporting days have followed the same path.

[Hairdryer]

42 minutes ago, assessor said:

you highlight a league decider we lost and a certain game in 73. In your posts. What about 5-1 2012?

Regarding the 5-1 in 2012 was the second best cup final

i attended the first place goes to 1998

[N Lincs Jambo]

54 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I am a month and 3 days older than you.

Or Hearts supporting days have followed the same path.

 

They sure have John! I think from your posts you may have got the bug a bit before me though. My first visit to Tynecastle was Feb 70. I'm pretty sure I've seen you post about some games in the late 60s?

[John Findlay]

30 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

They sure have John! I think from your posts you may have got the bug a bit before me though. My first visit to Tynecastle was Feb 70. I'm pretty sure I've seen you post about some games in the late 60s?

According to my late dad and checking with LondonHearts. My first game was 8th December 1965 and a 4-1 over Clyde.

I was only 2yrs and 8 months old.

[SectionDJambo]

From my memory, the crowds didn't really start to dwindle badly until the yo yo years kicked in. The novelty of the first season in the second tier, and gaining promotion right away, was burst by getting relegated again. Then the season we stayed down was a really poisonous one, with crowd trouble fairly regularly from a frustrated Hearts support, culminating in the last day defeat by Motherwell which kept us down for a second season in a row, and all hell breaking loose. That Motherwell result was, of course, in the early 80s,  and was the best thing that could have happened to us. It gave Alex MacDonald and Sandy Jardine the perfect opportunity to bring through the young talent Hearts had, against lesser opposition.

Up to the first relegation, we could still attract decent crowds, especially for home cup ties. I remember one cup tie against Kilmarnock, played midweek due to a previous postponement, in particular. The crowd was very near 20,000, and we won 2-0 courtesy of Drew Busby. I think this was the match that Willie Bauld finally came back to Tynecastle. 

The Leipzig experience was also in the 70s, typically of Hearts, during the first relegation season. As I posted previously, the top ten division caught out a Hearts board who lacked any vision or ambition. Thank goodness Archie Martin then Wallace Mercer came along.

Living through that decade, and the real disappointments during the 80s, made 1997/98 the great payback for those of us who endured it.

 

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

From my memory, the crowds didn't really start to dwindle badly until the yo yo years kicked in. The novelty of the first season in the second tier, and gaining promotion right away, was burst by getting relegated again. Then the season we stayed down was a really poisonous one, with crowd trouble fairly regularly from a frustrated Hearts support, culminating in the last day defeat by Motherwell which kept us down for a second season in a row, and all hell breaking loose. That Motherwell result was, of course, in the early 80s,  and was the best thing that could have happened to us. It gave Alex MacDonald and Sandy Jardine the perfect opportunity to bring through the young talent Hearts had, against lesser opposition.

Up to the first relegation, we could still attract decent crowds, especially for home cup ties. I remember one cup tie against Kilmarnock, played midweek due to a previous postponement, in particular. The crowd was very near 20,000, and we won 2-0 courtesy of Drew Busby. I think this was the match that Willie Bauld finally came back to Tynecastle. 

The Leipzig experience was also in the 70s, typically of Hearts, during the first relegation season. As I posted previously, the top ten division caught out a Hearts board who lacked any vision or ambition. Thank goodness Archie Martin then Wallace Mercer came along.

Living through that decade, and the real disappointments during the 80s, made 1997/98 the great payback for those of us who endured it.

 

Nah before that. I was at a league game against Airdrie 72/73. They beat us 0-1 at Tynecastle and the crowd was reported as 4,500.

[Tommy Brown]

16 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Nah before that. I was at a league game against Airdrie 72/73. They beat us 0-1 at Tynecastle and the crowd was reported as 4,500.

And Busby scored.

Then signed closed season.

 

We suffered the backlash of 1/1/73.

Form was terrible, crowds deserted.

 

Think as we were younger, crowds always seemed bigger than they actually were.

But we were the proverbial sleeping giant that could draw in a huge crowd if form was good and the game was a Biggie.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Tommy Brown

[upgotheheads]

9 hours ago, Crete said:

The 70s was an embarrassing time to support hearts we lost a lot of the fan base that decade and sadly never got them all back

 

12 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Nah before that. I was at a league game against Airdrie 72/73. They beat us 0-1 at Tynecastle and the crowd was reported as 4,500.

 

I cant remember the Airdrie game, but I would have been there. Certainly the crowds fell dramatically in that period and I seem to remember an average of around 9,000 for a season, which is very poor for a club of our potential.

[John Findlay]

5 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

And Busby scored.

Then signed closed season.

 

We suffered the backlash of 1/1/73.

Form was terrible, crowds deserted.

 

Think as we were younger, crowds always seemed bigger than they actually were.

But we were the proverbial sleeping giant that could draw in a huge crowd if form was good and the game was a Biggie.

Yeah, I thought the Buzzbomb was the scorer. If we had the money we should have brought Drew Jarvie with the Buzzbomb too. Drew Jarvie a very intelligent player and very unfairly underrated.

[SectionDJambo]

32 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Nah before that. I was at a league game against Airdrie 72/73. They beat us 0-1 at Tynecastle and the crowd was reported as 4,500.

Would that have been later in the season, John? Possibly midweek end of season? After the NYD debacle, the season went from bad to worse, as you’ll remember, no doubt. I’d be surprised if it was early in the season. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if it was at the end of another disappointing season.

Actually, if my memory serves me well, I’m fairly sure that we weren’t getting full grounds at home, all the time, in the 2 championship winning seasons at the end of the 50s. I remember being surprised when I read the numbers for games against clubs out with the traditional top ones. Not poor crowds, but not jam packed either, and yet my dad told me stories of climbing walls to get in after gates were shut.

[Tommy Brown]

Last home game of the season. 21/4/73. 

https://www.londonhearts.com/scores/sea/1972-73.html

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

According to my late dad and checking with LondonHearts. My first game was 8th December 1965 and a 4-1 over Clyde.

I was only 2yrs and 8 months old.

The first game I have a memory of was in the 64-65 season  .... a 7-1 home defeat to Dundee.     As things turned out, a slightly softer defeat might well have  have seen us win the league on the final day !!      Even "our goal" was scored by a Dundee player !!

 

My Dad always reckoned that Hearts lost a fair chunk of supporters in the early 60s  when Tommy Walker abandoned the traditional attacking style that had been Hearts trademark in the 50s, and played with ONLY 4 forwards.   (Note to younger fans - that was sacrilege to many at the time !!)     Mind you, how could any team hope to replace Mackay, Cumming, Conn, Bauld, Wadhaugh  with like-for-like players ?

 

As others have said, the decline in attendances throughout the 60s and 70s coincided with other social changes which affected the old Saturday afternoon habit - in addition to the Hearts team being in decline. 

[Turkishcap]

Was at the 0 2 Arsenal game, think they played in yellow n blue. They all looked physically superior to us.

Funny I never looked at us being crap in the 70's as being young I just loved my team.

[SectionDJambo]

14 minutes ago, Turkishcap said:

Was at the 0 2 Arsenal game, think they played in yellow n blue. They all looked physically superior to us.

Funny I never looked at us being crap in the 70's as being young I just loved my team.

I have to say that I felt the same. It was very disappointing at times, but we did have our moments too. 
The relegations were hard to take, though. They did result in the removal of the old board of directors, although they had to be dragged out pretty much one by one.

[Jingle Bells]

19 hours ago, FORTHCLYDE said:

I was at most of the 1970's games because I was young I didn't realise we were rubbish. 

I did know we did not turn up against Hibs except the 4-1 game.

The good thing is I saw three of the greatest ever players to play for Hearts Jim Cruickshank, Drew Busby and Donald Ford.

Snap, plus I was there having a laugh with my school mates., with some of the antics going on in the (full) Shed.

Used to piss me off, at the time, though when it seemed that we sold our best players, shortly after the Season Ticket money was safely in.

Must have been a lot harder on the older fans.

[jbee647]

28 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Snap, plus I was there having a laugh with my school mates., with some of the antics going on in the (full) Shed.

Used to piss me off, at the time, though when it seemed that we sold our best players, shortly after the Season Ticket money was safely in.

Must have been a lot harder on the older fans.

To be fair I think we would have less than 2000 season ticket holders back then, having a season ticket only really became a thing for supporters in the late 1980s

Please remind me what best players we had to sell in those days, Arthur Mann in 1968, Ralph Callachan in 1977 and ......that’s it.

[Jingle Bells]

7 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

To be fair I think we would have less than 2000 season ticket holders back then, having a season ticket only really became a thing for supporters in the late 1980s

Please remind me what best players we had to sell in those days, Arthur Mann in 1968, Ralph Callachan in 1977 and ......that’s it.

That might have been part of the reason why.

Eddie Thomson,  George Fleming, Andy Lynch, Eammon Bannon , Parkie off the top of my head.

My first game was in 1972.

[A Shoreditch Heart]

2 hours ago, Turkishcap said:

Was at the 0 2 Arsenal game, think they played in yellow n blue. They all looked physically superior to us.

Funny I never looked at us being crap in the 70's as being young I just loved my team.

here's the "match review" from the programme 

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, jbee647 said:

To be fair I think we would have less than 2000 season ticket holders back then, having a season ticket only really became a thing for supporters in the late 1980s

Please remind me what best players we had to sell in those days, Arthur Mann in 1968, Ralph Callachan in 1977 and ......that’s it.

The attraction of the season ticket, back then, was it usually included all first team games, including cup ties, but not European games, which meant it could be a bit of a money saver over the season. It was usually priced a bit cheaper than the entry fee for all the league games too.

In recent years, the main attractions of having a season ticket have been guaranteeing your seat for all the games plus some priority for tickets for big games away from Tynecastle.