Covid protocols - ‘Govt money wanted’

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

All very grim.

 

We'll survive. Others won't.

we will defo survive.. but I could see us being set back years 

[DETTY29]

I'm not convincingly in the 'we WILL survive' camp.

 

We are asking season ticket holders to pay up to £625 to watch streams as it is.

 

Even if SFA Section 12 is watertight, I think we are still at risk.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, LMc said:

 

There's no way we can hold onto players. A few will actively be looking to get away as well as soon as possible as first team opportunities will be required for international aspirations. Obviously if 'elite' level sport continues BCD. It's going to be rough.

 

 

nope, we would want to sign up assets who other teams would take like  Haring and Boyce but then loan them out.. players who are not assets would be released 100% 

 

absolutely horrendous 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, DETTY29 said:

I'm not convincingly in the 'we WILL survive' camp.

 

We are asking season ticket holders to pay up to £625 to watch streams as it is.

 

Even if SFA Section 12 is watertight, I think we are still at risk.

it is watertight and even if it isn’t it would be a form admin and release.  Costs would be negligible.. and more than covered by FOH benefactors..

 

id expect season tickets to be honoured in full from the start of next season

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

it is watertight and even if it isn’t it would be a form admin and release.  Costs would be negligible.. and more than covered by FOH benefactors..

 

id expect season tickets to be honoured in full from the start of next season

I admire your optimism. 

[neilnunb]

13 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

All very grim.

 

We'll survive. Others won't.

 

And this is all that matters.

 

They were warned. They chose the wrong option. Now they can rot.

 

👌👋

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I'm not convincingly in the 'we WILL survive' camp.

 

We are asking season ticket holders to pay up to £625 to watch streams as it is.

 

Even if SFA Section 12 is watertight, I think we are still at risk.

I agree with you. 

[Rods]

There will be a meeting of some sort this week at that point we will be told testing is needed and they will ask how many clubs can play and at that point reconstruction will happen and there will be a 2nd league of 18 playing each other twice. This would be my hope but my fear is it’s all in or all out. 
 

It looks like the fans will have to step up again for Hearts. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Rods

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Rods said:

There will be a meeting of some sort this week at that point we will be told testing is needed and they will ask how many clubs can play and at that point reconstruction will happen and there will be a 2nd league of 18 playing each other twice. This would be my hope but my fear is it’s all in or all out. 

That will be an interesting meeting. 

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, Rods said:

There will be a meeting of some sort this week at that point we will be told testing is needed and they will ask how many clubs can play and at that point reconstruction will happen and there will be a 2nd league of 18 playing each other twice. This would be my hope but my fear is it’s all in or all out. 
 

It looks like the fans will have to step up again for Hearts. 

One league of 8 playing each other four times. 😷 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

6 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

 

And this is all that matters.

 

They were warned. They chose the wrong option. Now they can rot.

 

👌👋

Correct. The game in Scotland needs a reckoning. Feck them all (good guys aside)

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I admire your optimism. 

genuine question in what way mate? Think nearly 80% of our costs are directly related to to playing staff.. 

 

are you concerned that we couldn’t move them on? 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

genuine question in what way mate? Think nearly 80% of our costs are directly related to to playing staff.. 

 

are you concerned that we couldn’t move them on? 

I think we were around 60% player costs in the last accounts. Using this ‘section 12’ will undoubtedly be challenged in the courts, we will already have paid signing on fees and other one off and ongoing contractual payments to suppliers for the new season, redundancy payments for non playing staff and ongoing staff/maintenance/security costs. And then we will roll over season tickets to next season? I wouldn’t underestimate the challenges in that scenario. 

[Lone Striker]

14 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

genuine question in what way mate? Think nearly 80% of our costs are directly related to to playing staff.. 

 

are you concerned that we couldn’t move them on? 

Move them on to who ?   England (outside of Premier and CHamp) will be similarly fecked.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I think we were around 60% player costs in the last accounts. Using this ‘section 12’ will undoubtedly be challenged in the courts, we will already have paid signing on fees and other one off and ongoing contractual payments to suppliers for the new season, redundancy payments for non playing staff and ongoing staff/maintenance/security costs. And then we will roll over season tickets to next season? I wouldn’t underestimate the challenges in that scenario. 

On the ST that may be wishful thinking but time will tell.

 

If a12 is not watertight we are talking administration for 75% of the clubs in Scotland. I’m no employment law expert but Surely Players can be made redundant in this scenario is the same way that any other employee for any other organisation can?

 

as for the other costs, we will look to reduce riccarton costs, pitch hearing and maintainable reduce , no policing and stewarding? Staff involved in catering are released.. 

 

I’m sure we will survive.. in what form I’ve no idea.. it will set us back a decade.. 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Lone Striker said:

Move them on to who ?   England (outside of Premier and CHamp) will be similarly fecked.

i mean release them. 

[AndyNic]

if the season doesn't start then they can't deduct ST games for a stream so every cloud eh...

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, AndyNic said:

if the season doesn't start then they can't deduct ST games for a stream so every cloud eh...

[AndyNic]

Just now, davemclaren said:

 

[Marvin]

On my lunch so not caught up with this thread but I doubt fans will be back at all this season. I think there will be a few clubs in serious danger of closing their doors for good.

[Lone Striker]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

i mean release them. 

Ah ... ok.   

 

 

[Lone Striker]

5 minutes ago, AndyNic said:

if the season doesn't start then they can't deduct ST games for a stream so every cloud eh...

Well, yes  ....... but when the "next" football season is identified and given the green light by the SG, the club will definitely be needing to sell another full set of full-price ST's.   Our 11.5k ST's already sold will be worthless and pointless, other than to keep the club alive.

[andydog]

I'm fairly confident the Championship will start but there is definitely a doubt over it. I'd be surprised if league 1 & 2 carry on and start their campaigns now.

 

Absolutely devastating for us if we cant play this year. Would effectively mean making everyone redundant and starting again in the summer, with no new season ticket revenue, setting us back years.

[Rods]

36 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

One league of 8 playing each other four times. 😷 

 
probably will be something daft like that

[davemclaren]

Just now, Rods said:

 
probably will be something daft like that

It might be necessary for survival, if we can find 7 other teams to play. 

[bigsuperslim1874]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

It might be necessary for survival, if we can find 7 other teams to play. 

Dundee seem to have found some cash

ICT

Dunfermline with the German cash

 

We could deffo get a second league made up of teams willing and able to play....but will the SPFL be brave enough to do it.....🤔

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, bigsuperslim1874 said:

Dundee seem to have found some cash

ICT

Dunfermline with the German cash

 

We could deffo get a second league made up of teams willing and able to play....but will the SPFL be brave enough to do it.....🤔

Good question. All they care about is the Sky contract. 

[1971fozzy]

Given what Boris  is saying could be 6 months before crowds at games.

serious problems ahead for everyone inc. us

[May one-six]

6 minutes ago, bigsuperslim1874 said:

Dundee seem to have found some cash

ICT

Dunfermline with the German cash

 

We could deffo get a second league made up of teams willing and able to play....but will the SPFL be brave enough to do it.....🤔

If it's possible to get a second league then that can be the only way forward. To hell with the integrity of the current set up - if clubs can't play it would be immoral of them or the SPFL to stop those that can.

[David McCaig]

6 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

Given what Boris  is saying could be 6 months before crowds at games.

serious problems ahead for everyone inc. us

Just as well we have income from almost 12k ST holders.

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

What is really juicy is that the JRG will be getting calls to mothball the lower leagues but if they do, they will screw the farce of a Scottish Cup because we won't be able to prepare.

 

Chortle. Karma really is a bitch.

Aye, interesting to see how that plays out - but  I wouldn't bet  against Rod insisting that our Semi goes ahead BCD "to ensure sporting integrity"  (code-speak  for "getting it up these cheating jambo bar stewards") 

 

[Back to 2005]

Wouldn't surprise me if we dont kick a ball this season. No fans will mean teams wont be able to play. 

Or sturgeon will ban all lower league football.

[bigsuperslim1874]

17 minutes ago, May one-six said:

If it's possible to get a second league then that can be the only way forward. To hell with the integrity of the current set up - if clubs can't play it would be immoral of them or the SPFL to stop those that can.

Bingo - 100% agree

[Hagar the Horrible]

So now the day of reckoning looms even closer, with all 4 governments expected to be on the same page, Sport in general will suffer but football will have the biggest impact as it spends the biggest amount of money, and as it generates money, and most of it is not re-invested into the game itself, and very little filters down from the obscene money the EPL generates.  In Scotland it’s all relative, but very little money apart from James Anderson has tried to look after the lower leagues despite they bit the hand that feeds them.

So now the wakeup call and the real Armageddon is about to hit them harder than Mike Tyson punching a baby.   There is zero chance football will be played with fans before Christmas and very little of fans being inside stadiums this season.

How will this impact?  The OF are two behemoths on the top end of the behemoth scale,  both have clearly big investors and Celtic some considerable rainy day money, however they have been acting like this is a short term problem, no fans will hurt them too.

The sheep have been losing £1m per month, their stadium plans kicked into the long grass and they will be in full survival mode now.  A few like Hibs, County, Dundee and the Arabs have some sort of investors but how deep is their pockets.  St J, Hamilton and St Mirren must be on fumes now don’t you think?

 

We have warned of this for months and I would like to think we have been expecting it, and are willing to keep our club afloat if the SPFL abandons all leagues apart from the top one and thus keeping all TV money to themselves.

 

We need clubs in the same boat as us more than ever!  We need to already planning any 10 from the 3 leagues who can play and want to play to form our own league rather than just be told to mothball!

 

We need to be ready to launch an all, out attack on Doncaster and the SFA for allowing this to happen.  The big hope is that one or more top flight teams go bust, that will force reconstruction and negate any debate about us staying down ad-infinitem.  We need to be at the forefront of reconstruction talks, we need to bypass the board and get a sponsor.  It’s all about money after all.  We need the narrative to be our narrative.  We would need the like of Rangers Aberdeen and annoyingly Hibs on board.  But for the future of the game all talks should exclude Celtic and Liewell.

 

There will be a debate on clubs wanting to mothball and they will demand they start the league they are in currently,  That needs to be kicked in the head, if you mothball and clubs want to play then the leagues need to altered to accommodate those who can play first, then those that survive mothballing return to a league base on last ranking but lower than any club whom continues.  Tough if say a St Mirren ends up in the 4th Tier while Stranraer end up in the second.

 

Furlough is coming to an end, and with it sport.  Lots of people will lose their jobs which is sad for the civilians, as for the players, well competition becomes harder and that will actually have a positive effect.

 

In essence we need to be ready for the worst these incompetent clowns throw at us, but be ready with our own plan even a break-away league of 10 clubs who can play!!!!!

[rory78]

Im surprised everyone else is surprised at where we are now 🤔 we've been told for ages a second wave would probably happen later in the year - all this guff about getting fans in stadiums was always going to be a pipe dream this season 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

4 minutes ago, rory78 said:

Im surprised everyone else is surprised at where we are now 🤔 we've been told for ages a second wave would probably happen later in the year - all this guff about getting fans in stadiums was always going to be a pipe dream this season 

In Scotland and England it’s incredibly difficult to see how some clubs will survive this. Many of them carry wage bills they can’t afford and in England anyway, EFL clubs have had loads of central revenue paid in advance. They’re already looking at big black holes.

 

I doubt the government will put a rescue scheme in place. Too many other gaps to paper over. Because of how amateurs so many sides in our league are, it’s really hard to see this Championship season finishing.

[DETTY29]

How many bridges have we built since the court case because  it's looking like we may need some goodwill down the line?

Edited September 22, 2020 by DETTY29

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Hay many bridges have we built since the court case because it's looking like we may need some goodwill down the line?

**** bridges when across them is a wasteland!

[Hagar the Horrible]

My prediction is, the SPFL will abort the 3 lower leagues,  Not sure how they will spin it? it will be to preserve their precious TV deal.  They will not spilt the TV money evenly between all 42 clubs, but keep it all to themselves.

 

Half the clubs will pull out of the betfred diddy cup and the diddy diddy cup all will just abort it.

 

We will form a break-away league of 10 or more clubs.  We will get a sponsor; we will sort out our own TV deal with BT sport ESPN etc.

 

The top flight will still crumble even though the conditions of ending the league were they can’t distribute cash like they called it last year. Somehow they will all get advances with the remainder paid near the end, and clubs will accept any deal Celtic/SPFL throw at them as the only option.  A kick in the teeth to us once again. 

 

We will be back in court and the real court as by expelling us proved to be a restriction of trade, the SFA will be told to do one, as at that point we can resign and no longer compliant with their rules.

 

Finally my prediction is ARMAGEDDON is here…Time to take your medicine!

[Martin_T]

7 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

My prediction is, the SPFL will abort the 3 lower leagues,  Not sure how they will spin it? it will be to preserve their precious TV deal.  They will not spilt the TV money evenly between all 42 clubs, but keep it all to themselves.

 

Half the clubs will pull out of the betfred diddy cup and the diddy diddy cup all will just abort it.

 

We will form a break-away league of 10 or more clubs.  We will get a sponsor; we will sort out our own TV deal with BT sport ESPN etc.

 

The top flight will still crumble even though the conditions of ending the league were they can’t distribute cash like they called it last year. Somehow they will all get advances with the remainder paid near the end, and clubs will accept any deal Celtic/SPFL throw at them as the only option.  A kick in the teeth to us once again. 

 

We will be back in court and the real court as by expelling us proved to be a restriction of trade, the SFA will be told to do one, as at that point we can resign and no longer compliant with their rules.

 

Finally my prediction is ARMAGEDDON is here…Time to take your medicine!

 

An alternative league with a TV deal is pie in the sky stuff. What exactly would our negotiating leverage be with BT?

[Randy Marsh]

Should be able to get 8 teams to play a Championship.  Falkirk and Partick will just have to replace diddy clubs that would rather mothball.  If only this could have been sorted earlier eh...

 

[highlandjambo3]

2 hours ago, LMc said:

 

There's no way we can hold onto players. A few will actively be looking to get away as well as soon as possible as first team opportunities will be required for international aspirations. Obviously if 'elite' level sport continues BCD. It's going to be rough.

 

 

We cannot predict what will happen, we can of course guess (as I am now).....

Players ‘actively” looking to get away, to go where? who’s after our bang average players? what clubs/countries are in a different situation from us?  getting away may also mean selling a house, uprooting a family and all that goes with moving.

 

Now I’m no expert but, given the situation, if I were in their shoes I’d be tempted to ride out the storm, take a reduction in pay (I know it’s a big ask for some fringe players but where else are they going to move to?).  Hearts have a fair few players who could lean on their bank balances for a while, some indefinitely.  Players need to realise they are no longer outside looking in at us minions.
 

 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

It could be that the Well club was at correct capacity but as they have 3 or 4 rooms everyone congregated to the largest room.

 

Primarily it is at owner level but by the time they sort out groups it could already be too late....

 

 

Sturgeon will be well aware of the problems this match will cause, she mentioned fans congregating to watch games homes and pubs. I would imagine there will be checks by the licensing board and police during the game. 

[Bret the Hitman Hearts]

I notice that Hearts don't have the Scottish Cup semi listed in the first-team fixtures on the website.

An indication that we won't be playing, or am I looking into it too much?

Edited September 22, 2020 by Bret the Hitman Hearts

[Dennis Reynolds]

5 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

We cannot predict what will happen, we can of course guess (as I am now).....

Players ‘actively” looking to get away, to go where? who’s after our bang average players? what clubs/countries are in a different situation from us?  getting away may also mean selling a house, uprooting a family and all that goes with moving.

 

Now I’m no expert but, given the situation, if I were in their shoes I’d be tempted to ride out the storm, take a reduction in pay (I know it’s a big ask for some fringe players but where else are they going to move to?).  Hearts have a fair few players who could lean on their bank balances for a while, some indefinitely.  Players need to realise they are no longer outside looking in at us minions.
 

 

 

Micheal Smith, Steven Naismith and Liam Boyce could walk into most, if not all Scottish Premiership teams. Possibly even some English championship teams but definitely League 1/2 teams. 

 

To think these players will choose to 'ride out the storm' is completely fanciful.

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Bret the Hitman Hearts said:

I notice that Hearts don't have the Scottush Cup semi listed in the first-team fixtures on the website.

An indication that we won't be playing, or am I looking into it too much?

 

The date and time of game hasn't been confirmed.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

Micheal Smith, Steven Naismith and Liam Boyce could walk into most, if not all Scottish Premiership teams. Possibly even some English championship teams but definitely League 1/2 teams. 

 

To think these players will choose to 'ride out the storm' is completely fanciful.

Yes but will these clubs you’ve mentioned be able to afford them in the current environment. 

[highlandjambo3]

5 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

Micheal Smith, Steven Naismith and Liam Boyce could walk into most, if not all Scottish Premiership teams. Possibly even some English championship teams but definitely League 1/2 teams. 

 

To think these players will choose to 'ride out the storm' is completely fanciful.

Fanciful?  It’s quite a possibility they will remain, neither you nor I can predict the outcome.....

let’s just see how fanciful this becomes.

[Bazzas right boot]

16 hours ago, hunts said:

Starting to think there will be no championship season or at least it won’t be played to a conclusion.  Where that leaves us in terms of player salaries etc I have no idea, but if the SPFL see the chance to keep us down they’ll take it.

 

No relegation or promotion, can see it now.

 

If this happens I'm done with Scottish football. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

2 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Fanciful?  It’s quite a possibility they will remain, neither you nor I can predict the outcome.....

let’s just see how fanciful this becomes.

 

Would you stay at your job, not fully paid after already having had to endure pay cuts, for another year?

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by LMc
.