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Time to bin Private Hire Car promotion


kelosom

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23 hours ago, kelosom said:

Taxis in Edinburgh are like the NHS in that they are fair to all, they do not discriminate against any person with mobility issues. To offer this equality the vehicles are purpose built and or adapted and as such are more expensive. Everyone using taxis spreads the cost equally across society.

 

The Private Hire Car does not offer this equality and uses cheaper cars and wage suppression to offer discounts and in Hearts Case they are telling supporters to not consider equality and think of yourself and the driver will donate a proportion of his wage to Hearts. Private Hire use is just the same as all those self centred chairmen we have been berating.

I could be wrong but doesn't every company have to have cabs suitable for those with mobility issues? 

 

I'd be surprised if they had no cabs in their fleet suitable.

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On 01/08/2020 at 17:31, Normthebarman said:

I could be wrong but doesn't every company have to have cabs suitable for those with mobility issues? 

 

I'd be surprised if they had no cabs in their fleet suitable.

 

I’m not aware of any stipulation, even if it’s the case, how long will someone wait until one of those vehicles are available?, it’s still not treating everyone as an equal.

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On 01/08/2020 at 16:34, trotter said:

:rofl:

 

They are not even remotely the same thing. If black cabs were seen as an 'essential' service they would be subsidized by the government if it was needed. They aren't, and they're not. 

Your correct. They don’t seem to be, disabled people can use the bus right? That’s it covered so we can continue to treat them different, they can as some put it “take there medicine”.

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On 01/08/2020 at 11:35, Seymour M Hersh said:

A friend who comes from London and pre house arrest for all travelled up here every couple of weeks to go to his company office in Livingston. Told me tha hackneys charged him £55. from the airport but mini-cabs were only £39. That's quite a difference. Mind you he's not spending anything at the moment and using teams. I wonder how much business traffic will just never return post house arrest? 

It is a difference Seymour and his colleague who is disabled taking the same journey has to pay the higher amount, does the guy say to him tough it’s you bag mate.

 

my point is it’s wrong, that this prejudice is allowed to happen and I’m not sure I’m comfortable with Hearts wanting the Hearts supporter to be this person, we are better than that, look at the streams of posts relating to how we have been unfairly singled out and yet we are exactly the same not only are we the same but we are promoting it and encouraging others to behave the same way.

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, kelosom said:

It is a difference Seymour and his colleague who is disabled taking the same journey has to pay the higher amount, does the guy say to him tough it’s you bag mate.

 

my point is it’s wrong, that this prejudice is allowed to happen and I’m not sure I’m comfortable with Hearts wanting the Hearts supporter to be this person, we are better than that, look at the streams of posts relating to how we have been unfairly singled out and yet we are exactly the same not only are we the same but we are promoting it and encouraging others to behave the same way.

 

What on earth are you waffling about? 

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I used to have to deal with a lot of black cab drivers years ago.

 

A bigger collection of skinflints & deodorant dodging fat bodies I’ve yet to encounter (although bus drivers come close)

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2 hours ago, kelosom said:

It is a difference Seymour and his colleague who is disabled taking the same journey has to pay the higher amount, does the guy say to him tough it’s you bag mate.

 

my point is it’s wrong, that this prejudice is allowed to happen and I’m not sure I’m comfortable with Hearts wanting the Hearts supporter to be this person, we are better than that, look at the streams of posts relating to how we have been unfairly singled out and yet we are exactly the same not only are we the same but we are promoting it and encouraging others to behave the same way.

People don't like using black cabs because they are overpriced. If prices were reduced to a more palatable level then more people will use them, this will more than likely make up the shortfall in revenue. Like I said, it's a simple supply and demand problem. Whilst I feel nothing but sympathy for the mobility-limited people in society, they form a pretty small percentage overall. I don't mean to sound heartless, but it is the vast majority of society are able to make a choice that decide the market. Given two options that are broadly similar but one costs more, the least expensive option will be chosen ten out of ten times. 

In my view taxi drivers should spend more time lobbying their body for reduced fees rather than moaning about private hire cars and Uber taking their business. 

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Let's face it, cab drivers, along with haulage drivers, are part of an industry in its last days. There'll be no drivers at all, private or taxi, in 30 years max. Probably a lot less. Autonomous cabs are coming and there's no stopping it. 

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I always used black cabs when I lived in Edinburgh. Now I live in Musselburgh I can phone one to take me into town but if I’m visiting in Haddington or Gifford they’re not interested. Just going to stop using them altogether. Musselburgh is right next to Edinburgh if I lived 2 minutes up the road in newcraighall they’d be happy to take me. Dicks. 

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21 hours ago, trotter said:

People don't like using black cabs because they are overpriced. If prices were reduced to a more palatable level then more people will use them, this will more than likely make up the shortfall in revenue. Like I said, it's a simple supply and demand problem. Whilst I feel nothing but sympathy for the mobility-limited people in society, they form a pretty small percentage overall. I don't mean to sound heartless, but it is the vast majority of society are able to make a choice that decide the market. Given two options that are broadly similar but one costs more, the least expensive option will be chosen ten out of ten times. 

In my view taxi drivers should spend more time lobbying their body for reduced fees rather than moaning about private hire cars and Uber taking their business. 

Thanks for your post Trotter. 

I find human behaviour interesting and wanted to open discussion on the forum to see what the reaction would be and I’m not surprised by what has been posted.

 

People have freedom to choose and that’s what we all want. If a restaurant chain decided to remove disabled toilets in all its restaurants to add more tables and thus reduce the price of the menu I’m not sure that the same level of people would eat there that seem to think it’s acceptable to do the same when it comes to transport.

interesting also that the government would not allow it to happen but think it’s fine for PHC to do it.

 

thanks again, the op was not intended to debate what is best Taxi or PHC it was to gauge how Hearts fans respond. There are 1000s of supporters feeling that they are mistreated by selfishness and not so many interested when they dish it out.

 

many reasons from dickhead drivers to cost, for me none of them justifiable however thanks to all those who posted I remain hopeful that at some point we may come together for the common good.

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Black cabs for me anytime a much

More professional service and also vetted by the police regarding any convictions . The private hire cars in my opinion are not suitable for social distancing and adding screens to separate from the driver could be a safety issue if the side air bags deploy in the event of an accident. 

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2 hours ago, kelosom said:

Thanks for your post Trotter. 

I find human behaviour interesting and wanted to open discussion on the forum to see what the reaction would be and I’m not surprised by what has been posted.

 

People have freedom to choose and that’s what we all want. If a restaurant chain decided to remove disabled toilets in all its restaurants to add more tables and thus reduce the price of the menu I’m not sure that the same level of people would eat there that seem to think it’s acceptable to do the same when it comes to transport.

interesting also that the government would not allow it to happen but think it’s fine for PHC to do it.

 

Therein lies the point I was trying to make. If a restaurant was to do that then people who were 1) rightly annoyed and 2) no longer able to use that restaurant would take their business elsewhere. Now, you can argue the rights and wrongs of that line of thinking, but at the end of the day, there are other restaurants that can be used. I would argue that same logic also applies to your black cabs vs. PHCs argument. There are some PHCs that can accept wheelchairs - although I grant you it's a small proportion - but black cabs still exist to provide that service if needs be. The fact that they are more expensive has nothing to do with PHCs per se, and everything to do with (as you stated earlier) the cost of a black cab in the first place as well as the fees that black cab drivers are charged which they pass on to customers. 

 

2 hours ago, kelosom said:

thanks again, the op was not intended to debate what is best Taxi or PHC it was to gauge how Hearts fans respond. There are 1000s of supporters feeling that they are mistreated by selfishness and not so many interested when they dish it out.

 

I think your comparison is right, but you have it backwards. Hearts were voted out of the league by their competitors. We challenged this as an unfair practice under company law as it would allow their business to prosper at the expense of ours. Black cab companies have been trying this exact same thing for years UK-wide with their continued attempts at either removing competition of Uber/PHCs altogether, or by making it as difficult as possible for them to trade via things like extended background checks, not being allowed to use traditional taxi ranks, not being allowed to use bus/taxi lanes, etc. . 

 

2 hours ago, kelosom said:

many reasons from dickhead drivers to cost, for me none of them justifiable however thanks to all those who posted I remain hopeful that at some point we may come together for the common good.

 

Unfortunately, for a large number of people in society, especially in the current climate, cost is THE number one concern in every decision they make day-to-day. The example from earlier of a saving of 15 sheets on a trip from the airport could put an extra meal or two on a family table. So to say that is not a justifiable reason is at best naive, and at worst ignorant.

 

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Used to be...you couldn't get a BC on a Saturday night in Edinburgh and if you did, most didn't fancy a trip out to East Lothian.

 

Bet they do now!

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22 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Used to be...you couldn't get a BC on a Saturday night in Edinburgh and if you did, most didn't fancy a trip out to East Lothian.

 

Bet they do now!

Ten spot surcharge out to Penicuik when I used to do it all the time. Although to be fair that was occasionally cancelled out if you got a driver who lived out that way at the end of his shift and you could get it for '20 quid off the meter pal?"

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11 hours ago, Hairdryer said:

Black cabs for me anytime a much

More professional service and also vetted by the police regarding any convictions . The private hire cars in my opinion are not suitable for social distancing and adding screens to separate from the driver could be a safety issue if the side air bags deploy in the event of an accident. 

I was going to ask is it still a thing that all Black cab drivers are vetted by the police before they get a license whereas PHC drivers can just buy license and rent a car to start driving without any police checks ?

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Seymour M Hersh
On 03/08/2020 at 13:18, trotter said:

People don't like using black cabs because they are overpriced. If prices were reduced to a more palatable level then more people will use them, this will more than likely make up the shortfall in revenue. Like I said, it's a simple supply and demand problem. Whilst I feel nothing but sympathy for the mobility-limited people in society, they form a pretty small percentage overall. I don't mean to sound heartless, but it is the vast majority of society are able to make a choice that decide the market. Given two options that are broadly similar but one costs more, the least expensive option will be chosen ten out of ten times. 

In my view taxi drivers should spend more time lobbying their body for reduced fees rather than moaning about private hire cars and Uber taking their business. 

 

Tbf to the hackney drivers it's the cooncil that set the rates on their meters. However unlike the PHCs they don't ever seem to offer discounts (20% seems to be the PHC norm) which clearly they could if they had a mind to. 

Edited by Seymour M Hersh
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Seymour M Hersh
13 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Last night I opted to walk 3 miles rather than take either. Covid has reminded me what my legs are for!

 

What did you think they were for before CoVid? :laugh2:

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On 04/08/2020 at 23:57, stevie1874 said:

I was going to ask is it still a thing that all Black cab drivers are vetted by the police before they get a license whereas PHC drivers can just buy license and rent a car to start driving without any police checks ?

 

A criminal record check is required for both.

 

Only real difference in the checks is the topographical test for taxi drivers 'the knowledge' where a taxi driver knows the city and can articulate the shortest route between locations

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5 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

What did you think they were for before CoVid? :laugh2:

I used to sit in the pub for hours contemplating that very question! 🤣

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On 06/08/2020 at 12:20, Ribble said:

 

A criminal record check is required for both.

 

Only real difference in the checks is the topographical test for taxi drivers 'the knowledge' where a taxi driver knows the city and can articulate the shortest route between locations

 

But do they always take the shortest route?

 

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43 minutes ago, Cheile said:

 

But do they always take the shortest route?

 


Hence why I said articulate rather than take haha

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I'm likely to just go with Uber. I'll only be in a black cab when trying to flag one down walking home.

Edited by hughesie27
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3fingersreid
10 hours ago, Alex said:

Is there not something really random, that it's illegal for taxi drivers to wear jeans in the cab?

There is supposed to be a dress code which is meant to be enforced by the police, council or cab office . 
Dress codes are stricter in Central Taxis and City Cabs , although there will be some who flaunt it , most jeans wearers will be street cabs . 
I’m sure there’s also a rule about no T shirts too but I’m not 100% sure on that . 

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The Real Maroonblood
7 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

There is supposed to be a dress code which is meant to be enforced by the police, council or cab office . 
Dress codes are stricter in Central Taxis and City Cabs , although there will be some who flaunt it , most jeans wearers will be street cabs . 
I’m sure there’s also a rule about no T shirts too but I’m not 100% sure on that . 

I remember  the days when the driver would get off his arse and open the door for you.
Is that illegal now.😃

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Seymour M Hersh
On 04/08/2020 at 23:57, stevie1874 said:

I was going to ask is it still a thing that all Black cab drivers are vetted by the police before they get a license whereas PHC drivers can just buy license and rent a car to start driving without any police checks ?

 

PHC drivers have to go through the police check and medical the same as hackney drivers. The problem for the council/police is getting accurate or indeed any from certain areas of the world but that'll be exactly the same for some foreigners applying for a hackney licence. In my view the council needs to be a lot more strict when issuing licences (PHC in the main). 

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3fingersreid
3 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I remember  the days when the driver would get off his arse and open the door for you.
Is that illegal now.😃

Not for all cabbies , no 😉

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On 09/08/2020 at 09:32, hughesie27 said:

I'm likely to just go with Uber. I'll only be in a black cab when trying to flag one down walking home.

 

You are aware that they avoid paying tax, I think they pay something like the equivalent of 3 London taxis. So your saving is really taking money from the NHS, schools, pensioners etc.

 

So you are opting out of our economic system.

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@trotter, the problem now is using the restaurant example is there are now more restaurants that have removed disabled toilets and those that haven’t now have to consider closing or doing likewise to stay open and thus nowhere left for disabled people to eat.

 

i understand that there are people struggling at this moment but I believe the numbers are few that have no choice than to use PHC, the majority can use and can afford to use other means be it a bus train or taxi but choose not to due to self interest. I accept it is their choice but it doesn’t make it right or in most cases justifiable.

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1 hour ago, kelosom said:

 

You are aware that they avoid paying tax, I think they pay something like the equivalent of 3 London taxis. So your saving is really taking money from the NHS, schools, pensioners etc.

 

So you are opting out of our economic system.

Uber Drivers are effectively self employed and pay their own taxes (or don't) just like any other tradespeople. If they or the UBER business are paying too little tax then the UK gov should be able to chase them up on that like they would you or I.

 

 

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1 hour ago, kelosom said:

 

You are aware that they avoid paying tax, I think they pay something like the equivalent of 3 London taxis. So your saving is really taking money from the NHS, schools, pensioners etc.

 

So you are opting out of our economic system.

 

And black cabbies declare every penny?

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1 minute ago, Ribble said:

 

And black cabbies declare every penny?

I've yet to meet a black cabbie who doesn't fiddle their accounts in some way. To be fair though, I don't know anyone self employed who doesn't fiddle their accounts in some way. 

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37 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

I've yet to meet a black cabbie who doesn't fiddle their accounts in some way. To be fair though, I don't know anyone self employed who doesn't fiddle their accounts in some way. 

 

Correct, i'd doubt a single £10/£20 and i'll cancel the meter type fare has ever made it onto a set of accounts

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On 11/08/2020 at 11:25, Ribble said:

 

This driver/company isn’t Associated with Hearts.

On 11/08/2020 at 11:25, Ribble said:

 

And black cabbies declare every penny?

 

Maybe not, Taxi drivers and PHC drivers will probably have the same chance of having lunch on a cash job however Taxis Companies in Edinburgh are Co Operatives and don’t operate for profit, Uber payments leave the country and only the driver fee returns so at least the Taxi payment is all going to be spent in the UK and as such attract Tax.

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1 minute ago, kelosom said:

 

This driver/company isn’t Associated with Hearts.

 

Maybe not, Taxi drivers and PHC drivers will probably have the same chance of having lunch on a cash job however Taxis Companies in Edinburgh are Co Operatives and don’t operate for profit, Uber payments leave the country and only the driver fee returns so at least the Taxi payment is all going to be spent in the UK and as such attract Tax.

 

Ah so moral outrage only if it's close to home and it's ok to dodge tax so long as it's then spent in the UK? What if a black cabbie spends his tax free money on holidays abroad are they better or worse than an Uber driver in that case? 

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22 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Ah so moral outrage only if it's close to home and it's ok to dodge tax so long as it's then spent in the UK? What if a black cabbie spends his tax free money on holidays abroad are they better or worse than an Uber driver in that case? 

Indeed :rofl:

 

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The Real Maroonblood
2 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

This thread is bonkers. PHCs and cabs do the same thing, take you somewhere for cash. The idea that blacks cabs do it more professionally is ludicrous.

Fair comment.

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