Jason Holt....how did it all go wrong....

[number-16]

2 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

wow that’s nuts! I genuinely thought we’d let him go. 

Actually, I take that back.

 

We did agree a development fee in the end - https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/fee-agreed-for-holt

 

My memory must be failing me

[King prawn]

Very Neat and tidy on the ball but will rarely drive you forward to a victory. Don’t want him back. 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Go wrong? Livingston were 5th in the table. They have a good manager and a settled squad who seem to raise their game for each other. They've been better than us all season, probably last season too. That's a nice move for Jason Holt. 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

The wider question should probably be why does our academy produce so many players that end up at smaller clubs, even if they are better right now? How many have gone on to clubs that are bigger than Hearts and have earned us some money?

[Angel eyes]

Stephen Simmons was another young midfielder good on the ball calm at the time a thought we got a player here but nope didn’t happen went to Dunfermline after us or Dundee? 

[buzzbomb]

Maybe British ‘football’ isn’t geared up for technical players like Holt. He’d have been far better going abroad. Most of England, it’s more like British bulldogs than fitbaw. Up here it’s the same, maybe even less technical, plus the fans just want blood and snotters.
 

Not sure why we bother with box soccer etc Academy football and training is all about technique and passing and playing out etc. A laddie makes the first team and that goes out the window. Suddenly its about winning second balls, headers, taking no risk, putting the ball in behind

[JamboAndrew]

58 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

The wider question should probably be why does our academy produce so many players that end up at smaller clubs, even if they are better right now? How many have gone on to clubs that are bigger than Hearts and have earned us some money?

 

Agree. Would be nice to see a wee chart of top academy talent from the past 10 years and where they are now.

[stirlo]

Very good technical ability but just not the best footballing brain. So often with the very top players it's not so much what they do on the ball that makes the difference as what they do off the ball. The genius of Paul Scholes for example IMO was his ability to always find space even in the most congested of midfields. He just always knew the right area to move into when he was off the ball. That's the most difficult thing of all for a footballer to learn.    

[PhoenixHearts]

7 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

😂 you are having a laugh.. I nearly took you seriously until I saw damour. ****ing Damour - he’s utterly dogshit 

No. Damour has been mostly shit for us but based on his career before Hearts, I have to believe there's a good player in there somewhere. He had a few glimpses under Stendel.

Reckon he would piss the Championship. 

 

 

But regardless of Damour, my point still stands: Holt wouldn't get a game for us.

[Clerry Jambo]

17 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Just one of these “safe” players that don’t really do anything with the ball. We seem to produce quite a lot of them. Technically good player but just didn’t do anything out of the ordinary. 
A belter of a goal against the Huns and a nice lad. 
Good luck to him. 

Summed up perfectly 

[wattie exploited]

16 hours ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

Wouldn't make the bench. Haring, Irving, Walker, Cochrane and Damour all ahead of him.

would have him before Damour any day 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, stirlo said:

Very good technical ability but just not the best footballing brain. So often with the very top players it's not so much what they do on the ball that makes the difference as what they do off the ball. The genius of Paul Scholes for example IMO was his ability to always find space even in the most congested of midfields. He just always knew the right area to move into when he was off the ball. That's the most difficult thing of all for a footballer to learn.    

Can you even learn these things? I’m not sure tbh. These are really the things that set players apart. 
Players of Paul Scholes ability aren’t ten a penny. 

[Greedy Jambo]

He's another Scott Robinson, good luck to him at Livi but i wouldn't be wanting him back. 

[Clerry Jambo]

24 minutes ago, Space Pirate said:

He's another Scott Robinson, good luck to him at Livi but i wouldn't be wanting him back. 

Beginning to like you Space, that's the last 3 posts I've read of yours and totally agree............

[Greedy Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said:

Beginning to like you Space, that's the last 3 posts I've read of yours and totally agree............

 

[stirlo]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Can you even learn these things? I’m not sure tbh. These are really the things that set players apart. 
Players of Paul Scholes ability aren’t ten a penny. 

 

I agree - it's almost as if a player of Scholes' quality has a sixth sense and you're right - it's very difficult to learn that.  

[WoolfordsHearts]

"How did it all go wrong"

 

The laddies played for the Hearts, rangers and Sheffield Utd ffs.

 

And probably end up playing for a team in the league above us next season.

😶

 

 

[Holyrood_Hearts]

Nothing against the guy but I never seen the hype about him.

[Yoda]

9 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Livi can have Walker too if they want. 

They wouldn't want him.

[Alan_R]

Where did it all go wrong? He wasnt very good.

 

[jack D and coke]

I’d love it all to go wrong and I played for the famous🥰

Completed it mate. 

[Mysterion]

14 hours ago, Absolute Scenes said:

I am pretty sure we let holt go, he didn’t go after rangers

I’m not really saying he’s a snake for signing for Rangers, Holt was not interested in staying with Hearts and he didn’t entertain any new deal to facilitate a move South with no transfer fee (it’s just that his Plan A didn’t work out).
 

Every player has their price, some are just more mercenary than others. Holt’s 5yrs of mediocrity at Rangers might have earned him some money but hopefully sees his career head onwards to obscurity. 

[jamboinglasgow]

I watched Holt through a lot of U19 games and he stood out, he was a fantastic talent. To me where it went all wrong was 2011/12 season. I  watched the first U19 game of the season and he was way above everyone else around him, he was a player that should be stepping up, but didn't. I think his slight figure put off managers and Sergio was not interested. So the logical next step would be out on loan where he could play and develop. So we did that, but to the wrong manager at the wrong club. He went to Raith under McGlynn, who used a style of football that passed balls over the head of  a small technical midfielder. Then we employed that same manager as our manager. I dont think he developed as far as he could. 

 

I think he is a good Premiership player and would do well at Livi (they have turned Robinson into a good Premiership player as well.) But looking back at what he could have been, he will be one of those great what ifs of youth players.

[Mysterion]

14 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

 

I hardly think so. He would be on a decent wage but nothing that would set him up for life.

Ok, maybe not “set for life” but good chance over 5yrs he coined in £1-1.5million basic. 
 

If sensible he’d have put a decent amount of money put into a pension

[Unknown user]

15 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

Maybe British ‘football’ isn’t geared up for technical players like Holt. He’d have been far better going abroad. Most of England, it’s more like British bulldogs than fitbaw. Up here it’s the same, maybe even less technical, plus the fans just want blood and snotters.
 

Not sure why we bother with box soccer etc Academy football and training is all about technique and passing and playing out etc. A laddie makes the first team and that goes out the window. Suddenly its about winning second balls, headers, taking no risk, putting the ball in behind

 

I think we see so few technically gifted players that a bit of skill blinds us. If holt had gone abroad he'd have been as ineffectual as he was here.

Being good with the ball and being an effective part of a team are two different things, and Jason only has one of them IMO. 

Occasional flashes aren't enough, and that's why he's on trial at Livi after being at much bigger clubs

 

[karipidis]

19 hours ago, King prawn said:

Very Neat and tidy on the ball but will rarely drive you forward to a victory. Don’t want him back. 

This. Flattered to deceive a lot of the time and never understood the hype around him. Was not a regular starter in the team that won the Championship. . 

[wavydavy]

8 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Ok, maybe not “set for life” but good chance over 5yrs he coined in £1-1.5million basic. 
 

If sensible he’d have put a decent amount of money put into a pension

 

If sensible then that is a possibilty. However you might be surprised how much you need in a private pension pot to achieve a decent pension.

 

£1 MILLION pension pot would buy you around £30k per annum at normal retirement age.

[Beast Boy]

Don’t want him back. 

[KyleLafferty]

What went wrong? He’s played for every Scotland level bar first team. Played for Hearts, Rangers, Sheffield United and now a top 6 club in the SPFL are looking at him? I’d quit my job tomorrow for a career like that. Give me a break.

[Section Q]

15 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

If sensible then that is a possibilty. However you might be surprised how much you need in a private pension pot to achieve a decent pension.

 

£1 MILLION pension pot would buy you around £30k per annum at normal retirement age.

Annuities are dreadful value at the moment. Your 3% example is typical and shows no sign of improving. Anyone with a state pension of around £185 a week would need around £320k invested in annuities to achieve this other wise....👍

[Absolute Scenes]

15 hours ago, Mysterion said:

I’m not really saying he’s a snake for signing for Rangers, Holt was not interested in staying with Hearts and he didn’t entertain any new deal to facilitate a move South with no transfer fee (it’s just that his Plan A didn’t work out).
 

Every player has their price, some are just more mercenary than others. Holt’s 5yrs of mediocrity at Rangers might have earned him some money but hopefully sees his career head onwards to obscurity. 

I remember this now 👍 yeah he thought he was too good for us 

[Section Q]

7 hours ago, KyleLafferty said:

What went wrong? He’s played for every Scotland level bar first team. Played for Hearts, Rangers, Sheffield United and now a top 6 club in the SPFL are looking at him? I’d quit my job tomorrow for a career like that. Give me a break.

Wasn't good enough for Rangers or Sheff Utd. Livi a top 6 club !!!.... now you don't hear that every day, and if the coach moves on they're back down again. Holt is at the peak of his career with Livi, and after the clubs he's played for including us, he appears on a downward spiral. Shame because he had promise.

[OTT]

7 hours ago, KyleLafferty said:

What went wrong? He’s played for every Scotland level bar first team. Played for Hearts, Rangers, Sheffield United and now a top 6 club in the SPFL are looking at him? I’d quit my job tomorrow for a career like that. Give me a break.

 

I think its about the unrealised potential. 

 

I remember back in 2012, Holt was one that everyone was excited about because of the clear potential. Yes, nearly 100 games for rangers is an achievement, but its worth contextualising it too. Post liquidation Rangers have been a shadow of the club they were and Holt was a promotion signing, much like Kevin Kyle, or Jon Daly. He's not a signing the fans will ever look back on with any appreciation. He did a job any number of players could have done and was paid handsomely for it. He's also not played for them since 2017. 

[kingantti1874]

On 18/07/2020 at 17:20, PhoenixHearts said:

No. Damour has been mostly shit for us but based on his career before Hearts, I have to believe there's a good player in there somewhere. He had a few glimpses under Stendel.

Reckon he would piss the Championship. 

 

 

But regardless of Damour, my point still stands: Holt wouldn't get a game for us.

He was far better than we had last season, where we should be aiming probably not.. but there isn’t a player in damour - the new Malaury Martin. Awful, slow, ponderous chicken hearted wage thief. 

[Maroon tinted glasses 2]

We should introduce a "wake up and smell the coffee" room into Tynecastle so when younger players start allowing agents (and parents) into their heads then they should be sat down in this room where the walls are filled with pictures of past future prospects who have left to bench warm and ended up not fulfilling their true potential due to leaving too early. Holts picture will be on the wall, Templeton would be another to name but a few

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Imo good luck to him at Livi. A big step up in class of club for him from Rangers II - he’ll be happy to be playing at a club that can beat Hibs in cup finals, Livi has a long proud tradition, historical club  compared to Rangers 

 

 

[Lfhearts]

It never went wrong I would say.

[Gorgie_Rules]

He got shafted in the early days of his Hearts career when he broke through, mainly by McGlynn and carried on a bit when Locke took charge. Playing Paterson as a number 10 when he was already an establish right back springs to mind, Robinson getting picked a head of him despite being bang average. Whilst Holt's initial performances didn't merit being first name on the team sheet, he often found himself missing out after a few good performances, which was where the initial frustrations came from Holt and his agent.

 

Broke through and played for his boyhood club, Scotland U21 caps, played down south for a couple of clubs, secured a 3 year deal at Rangers and captained them, then played a season in Scotlands top flight and looks like will continue to do so. Pretty decent career i'd say

Edited July 19, 2020 by Gorgie_Rules

[Jambo92]

Agent screwed his career. Irony is the said agent would have probably made a tidy little sum with his crop of players that hes screwed over if he allowed them to develop at their clubs and earn a large price tag.

[WoolfordsHearts]

4 hours ago, Section Q said:

Wasn't good enough for Rangers or Sheff Utd. Livi a top 6 club !!!.... now you don't hear that every day, and if the coach moves on they're back down again. Holt is at the peak of his career with Livi, and after the clubs he's played for including us, he appears on a downward spiral. Shame because he had promise.

I have no idea why you started this thread,you're having a mare and you probably know it.

 

Most of the comments on the thread have been about not wanting him back.

That wasn't the thread title.

 

"How did it all go wrong"

 

What do you think went wrong?

[Section Q]

11 hours ago, WoolfordsHearts said:

I have no idea why you started this thread,you're having a mare and you probably know it.

 

Most of the comments on the thread have been about not wanting him back.

That wasn't the thread title.

 

"How did it all go wrong"

 

What do you think went wrong?

Well I don't know the guy but I remember he was our next big thing. The Levein influence might have caused him to feel unsettled as happened with Sam. I was quite shocked he was "trialling" at such a small club, and not sure what you mean by a mare....!

I think anyone who played for such big clubs but now finds themselves at Livi at an age where he'd traditionally be approaching the peak of his career has made some wrong moves/decisions/or maybe was just a flash in the pan. Hence the tital of the thread. Hope this clears things up fir you.......👍

Edited July 20, 2020 by Section Q

[Marty Byrde]

On 19/07/2020 at 00:45, jamboinglasgow said:

I watched Holt through a lot of U19 games and he stood out, he was a fantastic talent. To me where it went all wrong was 2011/12 season. I  watched the first U19 game of the season and he was way above everyone else around him, he was a player that should be stepping up, but didn't. I think his slight figure put off managers and Sergio was not interested. So the logical next step would be out on loan where he could play and develop. So we did that, but to the wrong manager at the wrong club. He went to Raith under McGlynn, who used a style of football that passed balls over the head of  a small technical midfielder. Then we employed that same manager as our manager. I dont think he developed as far as he could. 

 

I think he is a good Premiership player and would do well at Livi (they have turned Robinson into a good Premiership player as well.) But looking back at what he could have been, he will be one of those great what ifs of youth players.

 

Good post.

[Ainsley Harriott]

On 18/07/2020 at 14:22, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

Go wrong? Livingston were 5th in the table. They have a good manager and a settled squad who seem to raise their game for each other. They've been better than us all season, probably last season too. That's a nice move for Jason Holt. 

Exactly what a rediculas topic. The lads carved out a professional career in scotland and england. Hardly suggest we are in a position to ask anyone where did it go wrong?

[HighTimes]

On 18/07/2020 at 09:53, WoolfordsHearts said:

I find the"how did it all go wrong"bit puzzling.

He's had a pretty decent career playing up here and down south,with the possibility of a move to spl club still.

 

Not everyone ends up at Man utd or Real Madrid.

 

This. Decent player who's had a career 99% of all footballers would be happy with.

[Ari Gold]

On 18/07/2020 at 09:52, Mr Rabbit said:

This sums it up for me.

Felt he was a lot better than he was and should of been starting week in-week out. Couldn’t wait to get away and slowly realised that he’d bitten off more than he could chew.

 

You both know that he was told he wouldn't get much game time so left? 

 

Considering he should have been in the team 18 months earlier, no big surprise he left for more football. 

[Ari Gold]

On 19/07/2020 at 00:45, jamboinglasgow said:

I watched Holt through a lot of U19 games and he stood out, he was a fantastic talent. To me where it went all wrong was 2011/12 season. I  watched the first U19 game of the season and he was way above everyone else around him, he was a player that should be stepping up, but didn't. I think his slight figure put off managers and Sergio was not interested. So the logical next step would be out on loan where he could play and develop. So we did that, but to the wrong manager at the wrong club. He went to Raith under McGlynn, who used a style of football that passed balls over the head of  a small technical midfielder. Then we employed that same manager as our manager. I dont think he developed as far as he could. 

 

I think he is a good Premiership player and would do well at Livi (they have turned Robinson into a good Premiership player as well.) But looking back at what he could have been, he will be one of those great what ifs of youth players.

 

Nailed it. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

On 18/07/2020 at 21:00, WoolfordsHearts said:

"How did it all go wrong"

 

The laddies played for the Hearts, rangers and Sheffield Utd ffs.

 

And probably end up playing for a team in the league above us next season.

😶

 

 

Exactly you would think he ended up in saughton with a heroin addiction 

[Lone Striker]

Some strange chat on this thread.   Having a go at the lad just because Livi are interested in him ?   They've have outplayed us and finished above us for the last 2 years, with Scott Robinson a top performer this last season.      If anyone wants to ask "what went wrong"  about an ex-Hearts youngster, Holt is well down the list.    Try Calum Elliot, Stephen Simmons,  Scott Maxwell, Joe Hammill, Dale Carrick, David Smith  etc etc

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Holt did well when called upon in the promotion season but couldn't break up the Gomis-Buaben/Pallardo combination - understandably as they were brilliant that season.

 

It was deifinitey him who rejected a contract though, not us releasing him. I wanted him to stay and ironically he might have got decent game time as I think Bauben or Gomis (or maybe both) got injured, and Pallardo didn't feature too much. We did sign Djoum in his position though and he's a much better player.

 

Along with Scott Robinson he's one of the few youngsters to get regular games in the top league after choosing to leave us at a fairly young age or being released. I can't think of too many others. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[ri Alban]

If only my football career was as bad as his. God! I wish I was as shite as him.