Evolution of the Edinburgh derby

[martoon]

47 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I was coming up for 11(April 74) the new year derby 73, the September 73 game and the new year's day game 74. Went to all three on my own. Got there and back no bother each time.

 

I'm of that age group who when ready, and allowed to go, the derbies stopped. First games v. Hibs I attended were at ER. Shield game in 1981/82 and, the following preseason, the Tom Hart Cup. Both riotous occasions. 

 

I was 15 in 1983 when I first attended a proper derby. The famous 3-2 game. 

 

Read quite a few posts over the years that suggest there's many with a similar story. 

[Gordon Ramsay]

18 hours ago, Cade said:

Going into a Derby away from home, knowing that winning would relegate your most hated rivals.
Your rivals are languishing at the foot of the table having been docked 15 points for entering administration.

You start that match in 7th place in the league.

Losing that game 2-0.

Being so upset about that result that you only score a single point in the remaining 6 league fixtures, including another Derby defeat, this time at home.

You tumble down the table, ending the league season in 11th place and in the playoffs.

Skooshing the first leg 2-0 away. 

Somehow ending up tied 2-2 in the return leg at home to a 93rd minute equaliser.

Going all the way to penalties.

Losing on penalties.

Being relegated yourselves.

Having to watch your most hated rivals stomp the league you are now both in, setting a record points total and being promoted at the first attempt.

Taking three years to get promoted yourselves.

 

Scaffs.

 

 

Probably the funniest sequence of events ever to happen in football. 

 

All provided by Hibernian FC. 

[John Findlay]

10 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

I'm of that age group who when ready, and allowed to go, the derbies stopped. First games v. Hibs I attended were at ER. Shield game in 1981/82 and, the following preseason, the Tom Hart Cup. Both riotous occasions. 

 

I was 15 in 1983 when I first attended a proper derby. The famous 3-2 game. 

 

Read quite a few posts over the years that suggest there's many with a similar story. 

I missed the vast majority of the derbies in the 80s due to being away in the Navy.

My first derby was Tynecastle september 67 aged 4yrs and 5 months with my dad. My first ER derby was new year's day 68, high up on the old east terrace again with my dad aged 4yrs and 8 months. Hearts lost both of them.

[3fingersreid]

7 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I missed the vast majority of the derbies in the 80s due to being away in the Navy.

My first derby was Tynecastle september 67 aged 4yrs and 5 months with my dad. My first ER derby was new year's day 68, high up on the old east terrace again with my dad aged 4yrs and 8 months. Hearts lost both of them.

Jinx 😉

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

Jinx 😉

Trust me I genuinely thought I was.

[3fingersreid]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

Trust me I genuinely thought I was.

I think around that time there were thousands that thought that 😂😂

[John Findlay]

Just now, 3fingersreid said:

I think around that time there were thousands that thought that 😂😂

True.

[Ballitojambo]

The mixing continued well into the 70s, there was always youngsters going at each other but the family groups ( by that i mean grandfathers, dads and sons, not that many women on the terraces) were pretty mixed , every ground had its home base to be defended, with us of course the shed below the tv gantry, Hibs in my memory never came close to taking the shed although Edinburghs finest did give it to them once, they were ejected very swiftly, football then was still very much a working class game and the crowds reflected this ,much more of a rough and tumble

( who remembers how scary a sway was when you got carried by the crowd) feel and real menace on the front line, with the old firm of course it was off the clock, to this day i  despise those animals.

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, 3fingersreid said:

I remember going to a game at Easter rd as a young boy ,for what was to be the last game before segregation , my dad had persuaded around 20 or so of his pub regulars -Corn Exchange on Baltic street -to go together and  we were in the old north stand .

I think it finished 1-1 with Bobby Prentice equalising, the actual game I don’t remember much about but the fighting on the old extended east terracing was incredible Hearts v hibs and then Hearts and hibs v the police . 
must’ve been around ‘75/76 ?

Was oct/Nov 76, Bobby equalizing down the slope at the cow shed end with about 9 mins to go.

[JJ93]

13 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

My wife went to a New Year derby with me at Easter road around 1970.  Ford gave us the lead, they won 3-1. It was absolutely freezing.

 

We were mainly surrounded by Hibs supporters and they were great.  They made a big fuss of here being a Kiwi but queried her judgment being stuck with me.  

 

My experiences were pretty much all like that pre-segregation and pre-Mercer.

 

I didn't like them of course.  Today, I can't stand them.

 

 

Very nice and civilised story!

 

the ‘new’ aggression probably coincides with other societal changes to behaviour among working classes as footie is typically a working man’s game. There’s been a lot of changes society wise over the decades and centuries. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

On 15/07/2020 at 12:04, Cade said:

Hibs are not rivals.

They're a minor annoyance once every so often.

They've given us so much joy over the years.

And so many points.

And one Big Cup.

 

Two big cups mate, 1896 and 2012, and arguably a third when we gubbed them 4-0 at Hampden in 2006 to set up a final showdown with lower league Gretna, you just know that if Hibs had gotten to that final, that they'd have somehow blown it, such is their bottle! 

 

They really are the shit on our shoe that shower! 

[martoon]

1 minute ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Two big cups mate, 1896 and 2012, and arguably a third when we gubbed them 4-0 at Hampden in 2006 to set up a final showdown with lower league Gretna, you just know that if Hibs had gotten to that final, that they'd have somehow blown it, such is their bottle! 

 

They really are the shit on our shoe that shower! 

 

I'm going to try and say that the next time I'm pi55ed. 😊

[The Old Tolbooth]

1 minute ago, martoon said:

 

I'm going to try and say that the next time I'm pi55ed. 😊

 

I'd imagine if you were Sean Connery, you could clean yer windaes at the same time too!  

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

I'd imagine if you were Sean Connery, you could clean yer windaes at the same time too!  

 

😂

[dannymack]

1 hour ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Two big cups mate, 1896 and 2012, and arguably a third when we gubbed them 4-0 at Hampden in 2006 to set up a final showdown with lower league Gretna, you just know that if Hibs had gotten to that final, that they'd have somehow blown it, such is their bottle! 

 

They really are the shit on our shoe that shower! 

 

Don't forget the 1901 Cup Semi final when we beat them 1-2 at Easter Road after a 1-1 draw at Tynecastle Park. Heart of Midlothian went on the beat celtic 4-3 in the final. 

[3fingersreid]

6 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Was oct/Nov 76, Bobby equalizing down the slope at the cow shed end with about 9 mins to go.

That’s the one 👍🏻

[The Old Tolbooth]

18 hours ago, dannymack said:

 

Don't forget the 1901 Cup Semi final when we beat them 1-2 at Easter Road after a 1-1 draw at Tynecastle Park. Heart of Midlothian went on the beat celtic 4-3 in the final. 

 

I remember it well  

 

So that's 4 big cups that we've stripped from them, fabulous!  

[Marvin]

On 15/07/2020 at 12:13, John Findlay said:

Segregation in the late 70s. Not being allowed to walk from behind one goal to the other. Since the advent of the internet it has got alot worse and just downright nasty/vile.

 

 

The internet has a lot to answer for despite the good it does. I wasn't allowed to go to derby's until we got back in the premier. So my first was in 1983 when I was introduced to the wonderful and hibby hammering John Robertson. That's when we started to get the upper hand after a dreadful period in 60's and 70's.  The Mercer takeover tipped them over the edge and by the time they learned to read and write, it has steadily got worse. 

[Ross-l]

On 16/07/2020 at 00:14, andyscott82 said:

A brief history of the Edinburgh derby:

 

We allow hibs to exist. They’re shite. We pump them repeatedly. 
 

They manage to form their greatest ever side. We still pump them repeatedly. 
 

They eventually have a little spell on top, after over 80 years of the fixture being played. We get our shit together and start to pump them repeatedly again. 
 

The great Waldo arrives. The pumpings become merciless. 
 

We pump them with teams full of superstars, teams full of journeymen, and even teams full of kids. 
 

We know it. They know it. They know we know it. They are the shite on our shoes, the scum in the gutters, the filthy underbelly of our beautiful city. 
 

They can protest and bluster and claim otherwise all they want, but it’s nothing but false bravado that fades the second the going gets rough for them. 
 

They fear us, they envy us, they obsess over us. 
 

They will ALWAYS be in our shadow, WE are the big team, and this is OUR ****ing city!

Pure poetry 

[colinmaroon]

On 15/07/2020 at 19:30, ToqueJambo said:

Mercer changed things, but the internet changed it even more. And Romanov came along at the same time as the internet really ramped up - the perfect storm. 

 

Pre-internet it was pretty hard to maintain seethe when you just had the morning and evening papers to read.

 

Spot on!

[jambonian]

I started going in around 1982, Ist division. When we got promoted in 1983 we won against them and it was downhill for them for years and years. Under Alex MacDonald we went undefeated in 17 (I think) games until Gordon Hunter managed to grab them a win in 1989. Not long after Mercer tried a merger, we started on a 22/23 game unbeaten run.

They slag of Mercer, call him all sorts even now but what they conveniently forget is that if it wasn't for him they would never've known what was going on at their club with Duff and Gray in charge. They were ripping every penny out of them for "leisure" companies in London and other stuff. They got found out, left then Tom Farmer came in and saved them. Had it not been for Mercer they wouldn't have won the 1991 Skol Cup (League Cup) with new players and manager. Hibs have always had more to thank Hearts for than us to thank them for anything. They hate that and that's why they became more bitter, well that and going on long poor derby runs. I always refer to their fans as the Chip-on-the-shoulder brigade, which also annoys them rather greatly. They also know that Hearts are the biggest supported football club in Scotland outside the old firm but they can't accept that. Sure, there may have been an occasion or two, usually when Hearts are a bit pish, that their support goes up slightly as ours lowers a touch but generally, when both clubs are being average for long spells, Hearts have always had the larger support.

To me, Hibs are just an annoying pain in the arse that we have the misfortune of sharing a city with. In the 80s the top 5 clubs were Celtic, Rangers (the proper one), Aberdeen, Hearts and Dundee Utd. Hibs were generally happy to avoid relegation each season, the way it should be.

Edited July 17, 2020 by jambonian

[Juanjo]

On 15/07/2020 at 15:30, BarneyBattles said:

Gorgie Road in the 80s could be quite rough but only ever really localised skirmishes with hibs and a bit of pavement dancing. The worst violence I've seen on gorgie/dalry road was after a midweek game v celtic, think it was the 1-0 (Berry) win in December 86. That really was running battles and I think it was a bit of revenge for the battle of parkhead game which I was also at and was a bit mental too in the car park afterwards.

This made me think of a game I was at about 87/88 (others will know better, I was only 7 or 8 years old, against Celtic or Hibs. Pretty sure it would not have been a midweek game. We walked onto Gorgie Rd from the main stand and just at the railway bridge someone opened the emergency exit at the top of a double decker bus and hung a Celtic/Hibs scarf out the back and set it on fire. Quite the spectacle for a wee guy like I was at the time! Anyone else see this/hear about it?

[Juanjo]

On 15/07/2020 at 15:30, BarneyBattles said:

Gorgie Road in the 80s could be quite rough but only ever really localised skirmishes with hibs and a bit of pavement dancing. The worst violence I've seen on gorgie/dalry road was after a midweek game v celtic, think it was the 1-0 (Berry) win in December 86. That really was running battles and I think it was a bit of revenge for the battle of parkhead game which I was also at and was a bit mental too in the car park afterwards.

.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Juanjo

[Juanjo]

On 15/07/2020 at 15:30, BarneyBattles said:

Gorgie Road in the 80s could be quite rough but only ever really localised skirmishes with hibs and a bit of pavement dancing. The worst violence I've seen on gorgie/dalry road was after a midweek game v celtic, think it was the 1-0 (Berry) win in December 86. That really was running battles and I think it was a bit of revenge for the battle of parkhead game which I was also at and was a bit mental too in the car park afterwards.

.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Juanjo
Duplicate

[Stephane Grappelli]

On 16/07/2020 at 09:34, John Findlay said:

I missed the vast majority of the derbies in the 80s due to being away in the Navy.

My first derby was Tynecastle september 67 aged 4yrs and 5 months with my dad. My first ER derby was new year's day 68, high up on the old east terrace again with my dad aged 4yrs and 8 months. Hearts lost both of them.

 

Were you in the Navy John?  Did not know that.

[dode]

I used to get the odd sair face going to games at Easter rd as a kid , I lived in leith and walked up Restalrig rd cut through lochend . I was 11-15 around then. Even living in leith I didn’t feel to their was much Hibbyness around . Recently we get the warrior poets Faux leither crap ,Irvine Welsh/proclaimers  everybody loves us nonsense. 
Anyway for pure violence the Tom hart game takes some beating , I’m sure I remember hearts fans going into the hibs end and battering folk , on princes street I saw a policeman pulled off his horse ...This could all be memory playing  tricks .

like folk are saying it’s all keyboard warrior stuff and letters to Lithuania these days . 

[martoon]

7 hours ago, dode said:

I used to get the odd sair face going to games at Easter rd as a kid , I lived in leith and walked up Restalrig rd cut through lochend . I was 11-15 around then. Even living in leith I didn’t feel to their was much Hibbyness around . Recently we get the warrior poets Faux leither crap ,Irvine Welsh/proclaimers  everybody loves us nonsense. 
Anyway for pure violence the Tom hart game takes some beating , I’m sure I remember hearts fans going into the hibs end and battering folk , on princes street I saw a policeman pulled off his horse ...This could all be memory playing  tricks .

like folk are saying it’s all keyboard warrior stuff and letters to Lithuania these days . 

 

😁

 

I love that stuff they come up with. 

 

Their general shiteness, inferiority and abysmal derby record over the last 35-40 years has forced the Hibby to get creative, boast wise. 

 

Hence the unquantifiable crap like poets, flair, swashbuckling, cool club...

 

Reality dodging feckwits. 😜

 

[Vlad Magic]

We are fortunate to have them as neighbours and rivals.

 

I use the word “rival” in the loosest possible terms. “Bitches” may be more appropriate?

 

Time and time again they spend so much time worrying about what we do that they forget what they are doing and they Hibs it.

 

Even now as I type they are scurrying about messaging each other about our court case. How much money we may or may not receive. Our “relleegayshun”. Who we will play next season. Budge. Neilson. On and on and on and on and on.

 

All the while their club is showing signs of trouble. Needs cash injection. 
 

What do they do?

 

Buy a concession ST.

 

They never learn. Long may it continue.

 

Best neighbours in football.

[Debut 4]

2 hours ago, martoon said:

 

😁

 

I love that stuff they come up with. 

 

Their general shiteness, inferiority and abysmal derby record over the last 35-40 years has forced the Hibby to get creative, boast wise. 

 

Hence the unquantifiable crap like poets, flair, swashbuckling, cool club...

 

Reality dodging feckwits. 😜

 

Haha, that’s true though. Man City were the English version in the 90s too. Tried to paint a picture of being trendy and cool through links to music or film(Oasis at the time for them).   
 

The fact was they were shite at football, the very thing they exist for, while their more illustrious rivals were miles ahead on the park.  😊

[Marvin]

29 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Haha, that’s true though. Man City were the English version in the 90s too. Tried to paint a picture of being trendy and cool through links to music or film(Oasis at the time for them).   
 

The fact was they were shite at football, the very thing they exist for, while their more illustrious rivals were miles ahead on the park.  😊

 

Tbf there is a slight difference between Oasis (once very popular band with a huge following) and the proclaimers (a very insignificant band with probably only one decent hit in their repertoire). A bit like comparing ourselves to therm; Hearts a fairly decent team with a long and proud history with a few notable cup wins over the last 22 years. Then there is hibs a team whose fans hatred of its bigger city rivals has escalated steadily since 1990 to obsessional proportions never before seen in football. Even Real and Athletico Madrid aren't obsessed as they are.  I do genuinely feel for their mental health. Maybe I can recommend my ex's psychiatrist to our lesser, bitter rivals. I do believe he does have a colourful choice of crayons to play with.  

[martoon]

46 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Haha, that’s true though. Man City were the English version in the 90s too. Tried to paint a picture of being trendy and cool through links to music or film(Oasis at the time for them).   
 

The fact was they were shite at football, the very thing they exist for, while their more illustrious rivals were miles ahead on the park.  😊

 

Tottenham fans play the flair, swashbuckling, artisan card too.

 

While Arsenal are regularly winning trophies and derbies (not as dominant nowadays) Spurs are not. But, their fans and media mafia claim, it's all done with style, panache and playing the game the way it should be played. Unlike the boring, industrious Gunners. 

 

Sounds awfy familiar, doesn't it? 😊

 

Btw, I have no connection with either club but tend to favour Arsenal just because of the above. 

[martoon]

19 minutes ago, Marvin said:

 

Tbf there is a slight difference between Oasis (once very popular band with a huge following) and the proclaimers (a very insignificant band with probably only one decent hit in their repertoire). A bit like comparing ourselves to therm; Hearts a fairly decent team with a long and proud history with a few notable cup wins over the last 22 years. Then there is hibs a team whose fans hatred of its bigger city rivals has escalated steadily since 1990 to obsessional proportions never before seen in football. Even Real and Athletico Madrid aren't obsessed as they are.  I do genuinely feel for their mental health. Maybe I can recommend my ex's psychiatrist to our lesser, bitter rivals. I do believe he does have a colourful choice of crayons to play with.  

 

There are a few on .nut who are teetering on the brink. One more nudge (another Hampden humiliation, Hearts numerically avenging 0-7) could tip some into the abyss. 

 

Greenminger and his imaginary friends (one of them did a job for a gullible Ann Budge, he claims) would be my bet. Although some would argue that ship has long since sailed. 

[Wee Mikey]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

Haha, that’s true though. Man City were the English version in the 90s too. Tried to paint a picture of being trendy and cool through links to music or film(Oasis at the time for them).   
 

The fact was they were shite at football, the very thing they exist for, while their more illustrious rivals were miles ahead on the park.  😊

 

Just in case you missed this. 🤣🤣🤣

 

 

[martoon]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

Haha, that’s true though. Man City were the English version in the 90s too. Tried to paint a picture of being trendy and cool through links to music or film(Oasis at the time for them).   
 

The fact was they were shite at football, the very thing they exist for, while their more illustrious rivals were miles ahead on the park.  😊

 

31 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Tottenham fans play the flair, swashbuckling, artisan card too.

 

While Arsenal are regularly winning trophies and derbies (not as dominant nowadays) Spurs are not. But, their fans and media mafia claim, it's all done with style, panache and playing the game the way it should be played. Unlike the boring, industrious Gunners. 

 

Sounds awfy familiar, doesn't it? 😊

 

Btw, I have no connection with either club but tend to favour Arsenal just because of the above. 

 

Spurs had Chas & Dave. 

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

 

Tottenham fans play the flair, swashbuckling, artisan card too.

 

While Arsenal are regularly winning trophies and derbies (not as dominant nowadays) Spurs are not. But, their fans and media mafia claim, it's all done with style, panache and playing the game the way it should be played. Unlike the boring, industrious Gunners. 

 

Sounds awfy familiar, doesn't it? 😊

 

Btw, I have no connection with either club but tend to favour Arsenal just because of the above. 

Tottenham and flair under Jose Mourinho? Cant see it myself.

[martoon]

18 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Tottenham and flair under Jose Mourinho? Cant see it myself.

 

I recall some Spurs whining at the appointment. Not compatible with their free flowing, attacking ethos.

 

Of course, they may not be fussed if he brings real, tangible success rather than the fantasy variety. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by martoon

[John Findlay]

21 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

I recall some Spurs whining at the appointment. Not compatible with their free flowing, attacking ethos.

 

Of course, they may not be fussed if he brings real, tangible success rather than the fantasy variety. 

Like all football supporters if they win a trophy or trophies under him, they won't care for the style of football played.