Pasquale for King Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Jamhammer said: I'm pretty sure every case is assessed and if certain criteria are met then they will be deployed. Seems to work and, would imagine will be constantly reviewed following incidents such as Dunblane, Airport attack etc. I think we have the balance about right in Scotland when it comes to the equipment our regular cops have. Sadly a stab proof vest only protects your core. I appreciate that's where most of the good stuff is however you're still vulnerable Definitely, and i said they probably should especially in cases like this, for all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Furious Styles said: armed police in Scotland sent to over 5000 routine incidents. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-48140508 Cheers, no mention of stabbings though. Looks like they’re trying to find them something to do as thankfully firearm offences are extremely rare. Edited June 27, 2020 by Pasquale for King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: If there is somebody armed in an incident then the armed police would be called out as a matter of course. They are called out to hundreds of knife calls every year. There was a recent video of some fud in Stirling running about with machete who was contained by the police until the armed response arrived and tasered him. That’s not really what the police definition that I posted up there stated is firearm offences, but then we have the BBC link where they’re being sent to traffic accidents and missing persons. Maybe all in the aim of making us more used to seeing them as they make more officers armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 One problem with police around the world is that when you give them new equipment that's supposed to be "last resort", it very quickly becomes the "go to" bit of kit. Tasers are supposed to be last resort but are routinely used all the time even when not merited. It's a lack of training to blame here, and a blase attitude by too many coppers towards the public who they are supposed to be protecting. Armed police are a different kettle of fish with different rules and they do serve a vital role, only being deployed where weapons are evident or apparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 23 minutes ago, Cade said: One problem with police around the world is that when you give them new equipment that's supposed to be "last resort", it very quickly becomes the "go to" bit of kit. Tasers are supposed to be last resort but are routinely used all the time even when not merited. It's a lack of training to blame here, and a blase attitude by too many coppers towards the public who they are supposed to be protecting. Armed police are a different kettle of fish with different rules and they do serve a vital role, only being deployed where weapons are evident or apparent. Personally I’d rather have a taser than a gun or spray. Spray doesn’t work on a lot of folk and a gun way more likely to be fatal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said: That’s not really what the police definition that I posted up there stated is firearm offences, but then we have the BBC link where they’re being sent to traffic accidents and missing persons. Maybe all in the aim of making us more used to seeing them as they make more officers armed. They are sent to calls where there is someone armed, be that a knife or a gun, as the ARV's are equipped with Tasers which the majority of response officers don't carry. Tasers are not that effective anyway. The reality is there are very few armed police officers on our streets. The plain clothes guys that were shown yesterday were specialist firearms officers who you'll almost never see on the streets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 55 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: They are sent to calls where there is someone armed, be that a knife or a gun, as the ARV's are equipped with Tasers which the majority of response officers don't carry. Tasers are not that effective anyway. The reality is there are very few armed police officers on our streets. The plain clothes guys that were shown yesterday were specialist firearms officers who you'll almost never see on the streets. Show me your proof of this, I’ve shown you what the POLICE say but you obviously know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 “Tasers to stun, shoot to kill” Beam me up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 25 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Show me your proof of this, I’ve shown you what the POLICE say but you obviously know better. proof? 😂 Armed police are routinely called to situations where someone is armed with a weapon generally to assist their unarmed response colleagues. Thats what happens in Scotland. Yesterday the call was responded to initially by response officers backed up by ARV teams and SFOs. This type of response probably prevented a far worse outcome. I'm not sure what proof I can offer I'm afraid, other than to say I just know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: proof? 😂 Armed police are routinely called to situations where someone is armed with a weapon generally to assist their unarmed response colleagues. Thats what happens in Scotland. Yesterday the call was responded to initially by response officers backed up by ARV teams and SFOs. This type of response probably prevented a far worse outcome. I'm not sure what proof I can offer I'm afraid, other than to say I just know. Yeah proof, what more proof can i give that what the Police say 🤷🏾♂️🤔? As for yours you have nothing, just your belief with nothing to back it up, nobody has so far. Edited June 27, 2020 by Pasquale for King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Barack said: We don't **** about, down here in Wales... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-52677514 “ ... the man was given suitable advice.” 🤣 I can imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) DP Edited June 27, 2020 by FWJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Seems that the guy was paranoid that everyone in the hotel was against him and upset with the people in the rooms around his for making too much noise. He'd mentioned to another resident that he might get violent. This was reported to reception on Thursday, who contacted Mears, the company responsible for housing them all, who sent a welfare officer round to talk to him on Friday. Once again, an attack that could have been stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Reekin' Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 12 hours ago, Sharpie said: If I am reading the original reports properly a man with a knife has already stabbed a police officer, and several members of the public, armed response should not only be directed it should be the first and priority order under the circumstances. I saw a comment on here about a man with a knife ,which was pointed out was not a stabbing, I guess its the simple mind of an old policeman but if someone reported to me that there was a man with a knife even in my unarmed days he was going down and fast, and not under Queensberry Rules, in my armed days my weapon would be at the ready and any aggressive act by the suspect would be responded to with a'38 to the body mass. I would leave the shot to injure to Clint Eastwood, his attacker was another actor. I don't know how many of you have ben in a death threatening situation, but as I have related often I have, and I again repeating myself held a fully loaded cocked Sten gun under his chin, until fortunately about two seconds before he would have died the true reason for his actions were revealed as wrong but but not lethal. I have also told the story of the gang who robbed an armored car and killed a policeman and some security personnel in London. That night when we paraded for night shift there were two detectives at the Craigmillar office. They advised us that the suspects were reported to be in a house in Bingham and we were to accompany the Detectives to arrest them. We were told they were probably heavily armed. I asked about weapons for us, he said they had been authorised but no one knew where the key for the armory was. I advised sarcastically that I was prepared to take a post at the Bingham bus terminus as they might try to get way on a "4 bus and escape. Fortunately before we could be detailed the information was proved wrong. Would likely have just jammed when you tried to fire it anyway, no? (Never been nearer to one than the outside of a museum cabinet so not based on personal experience, but they weren't exactly the most reliable of weapons, I believe...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, Cade said: Seems that the guy was paranoid that everyone in the hotel was against him and upset with the people in the rooms around his for making too much noise. He'd mentioned to another resident that he might get violent. This was reported to reception on Thursday, who contacted Mears, the company responsible for housing them all, who sent a welfare officer round to talk to him on Friday. Once again, an attack that could have been stopped. How could’ve it been stopped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: How could’ve it been stopped? Thank feck Cade or Pasquale are not in charge of public safety or law and order. The victims would be in the jail, with the attackers living it up with compensation. A cop tried to stop the maniac and was nearly killed, yet they shout (*Add justice for whatever cause they're on today) against the Polis who took the scumbag out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 9 minutes ago, Auld Reekin' said: Would likely have just jammed when you tried to fire it anyway, no? (Never been nearer to one than the outside of a museum cabinet so not based on personal experience, but they weren't exactly the most reliable of weapons, I believe...) Yes that could happen, if it did I was frightened enough that I would just have rammed the barrel straight up through his under chin. Two Parachute boys earlier in the week didn't have the warning I had and they ended up in the Sweetwater Canal in Ismailia. Live and learn. Shoot and then say drop your gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 27 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: How could’ve it been stopped? Perhaps the welfare officer could have had him removed either to a different hotel or in hospital custody. Depends what they talked about and whether violent intent and the strength of his paranoia was assessed properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Cade said: Perhaps the welfare officer could have had him removed either to a different hotel or in hospital custody. Depends what they talked about and whether violent intent and the strength of his paranoia was assessed properly. What a lot of pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor FinnBarr Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 How many armed polis do we actually have in Lothian? Only ask because after dropping the wife at work for her 6am start one day last week I turned a corner to be met with 10/12 of them pointing firearms over cars towards a house, couldn't get into reverse quick enough! They had sealed the road off at either end where the house was but forgot the road I drove along. As I stay in a cul-de-sac it was half 7 before I made it home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: Cheers, no mention of stabbings though. Looks like they’re trying to find them something to do as thankfully firearm offences are extremely rare. Armed response coppers gave the now banned poster Geoff the Mince's head a good dunt off the roof of their motor as they were bundling him in the back one night many years ago. As I recall we'd been at a wedding out of town and were walking through Haymarket in the early hours when we engaged a couple of coppers standing outside Torphichen Street cop shop (told you it was a while ago) with some light hearted repartee. By the time we were halfway down Dalry Road with the preceding exchange a distant memory, the ARU motor mounted the pavement in front of us and the two chaps jumped out and proceded to rough us up a bit. Quiet night for copper marksmen apparently, so amusement was sought elsewhere. A well deserved evening at Gayfield Square lay before Mr the Mince, while the rest of us were sent home licking our wounds with tails firmly between legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Lighter Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 On 26/06/2020 at 19:52, Pasquale for King said: I watched it a few times, it’s like he was firing blanks. So much for two bullets to the torso = sledgehammer. Guy was white right enough. Yeah, calling bullshit on this one. A training exercise imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said: Yeah, calling bullshit on this one. A training exercise imo. Could well be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 5 hours ago, ri Alban said: Thank feck Cade or Pasquale are not in charge of public safety or law and order. The victims would be in the jail, with the attackers living it up with compensation. A cop tried to stop the maniac and was nearly killed, yet they shout (*Add justice for whatever cause they're on today) against the Polis who took the scumbag out. No at all, once again reading stuff that isn’t there. I’ve already said on this thread that they probably did the right thing, not that it matters what any of us think really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said: Armed response coppers gave the now banned poster Geoff the Mince's head a good dunt off the roof of their motor as they were bundling him in the back one night many years ago. As I recall we'd been at a wedding out of town and were walking through Haymarket in the early hours when we engaged a couple of coppers standing outside Torphichen Street cop shop (told you it was a while ago) with some light hearted repartee. By the time we were halfway down Dalry Road with the preceding exchange a distant memory, the ARU motor mounted the pavement in front of us and the two chaps jumped out and proceded to rough us up a bit. Quiet night for copper marksmen apparently, so amusement was sought elsewhere. A well deserved evening at Gayfield Square lay before Mr the Mince, while the rest of us were sent home licking our wounds with tails firmly between legs. Naughty naughty, you getting him in trouble again 😜, scratched my name on a cell wall in Gayfield Square with my zip in 1987 😱😆. Still a station at Torphican street, had a few dealings with them over the last few years, hopeless tbh, but nothing to do with me 😇. Edited June 27, 2020 by Pasquale for King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Hang on just a minute. I never claimed that this guy should not have been shot. He was an active armed attacker. They get shot. No problems there. We were talking about policing in a wider context and how sometimes they use "last resort" equipment as a "go to" when they shouldn't. Do not put words into my mouth and for your own sake stop the day time drinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 14 minutes ago, Cade said: Hang on just a minute. I never claimed that this guy should not have been shot. He was an active armed attacker. They get shot. No problems there. We were talking about policing in a wider context and how sometimes they use "last resort" equipment as a "go to" when they shouldn't. *Do not put words into my mouth and for your own sake stop the day time drinking. 👍 Ok *Yet you have no problem casting aspersions, I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, ri Alban said: 👍 Ok *Yet you have no problem casting aspersions, I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Just now, Governor Tarkin said: Didn’t have a drop til 6pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: 👍 Ok *Yet you have no problem casting aspersions, I see. Quite right. That's what I get for posting before the first coffee of the morning. No offence intended. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Cade said: Quite right. That's what I get for posting before the first coffee of the morning. No offence intended. 👍 Never offended! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 minute ago, ri Alban said: Never offended! 👍 Only if you supported a certain team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Only if you supported a certain team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Another incident there today. Man covered in blood out side the Premier Hotel. https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/glasgow-police-respond-reports-man-covered-blood-city-centre-2897492 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Seems last week's attacker had submitted an application for voluntary return but that was held up by the pandemic putting a freeze on travel and other home office work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ93 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Not remotely surprised by what happened. Hope it doesn't happen again, but it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ93 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Oh, by the way, if you criticise a barbarian for stabbing people be warned that you'll be banned by one of the Mods for being "racist". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 40 minutes ago, JJ93 said: Oh, by the way, if you criticise a barbarian for stabbing people be warned that you'll be banned by one of the Mods for being "racist". Is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ93 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Is that right? Sadly. I was banned for a week for calling the murderer a name that had nothing to do with race. It was a synonym for ‘barbarian’. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Cade said: Hang on just a minute. I never claimed that this guy should not have been shot. He was an active armed attacker. They get shot. No problems there. We were talking about policing in a wider context and how sometimes they use "last resort" equipment as a "go to" when they shouldn't. Do not put words into my mouth and for your own sake stop the day time drinking. Interesting comment in last paragraph my old man was a police officer for the 38 years retiring a couple of years ago. Speaking to him 10-15 years ago he was dead against your bobby on the beat carrying cs. gun etc as he thought it would encourage it coming the other way, by the time he retired his attitude had changed completely as was the culture !! Edited June 28, 2020 by steve123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) Thankfully not a chokehold. Edited June 28, 2020 by JackLadd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 2 hours ago, steve123 said: Interesting comment in last paragraph my old man was a police officer for the 38 years retiring a couple of years ago. Speaking to him 10-15 years ago he was dead against your bobby on the beat carrying cs. gun etc as he thought it would encourage it coming the other way, by the time he retired his attitude had changed completely as was the culture !! I think it’s great credit to our police that they are not armed routinely in this day and age. Not many countries can boast that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 9 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said: I think it’s great credit to our police that they are not armed routinely in this day and age. Not many countries can boast that. Yea 100%, but does leave them a bit exposed when in situations like we seen last week. I know they are doing their job but that officer showed extreme bravery last week- I am not advocating them been armed just acknowledging how much danger they find themselve in at times and as you say one fo the few countries who are not armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 39 minutes ago, steve123 said: Yea 100%, but does leave them a bit exposed when in situations like we seen last week. I know they are doing their job but that officer showed extreme bravery last week- I am not advocating them been armed just acknowledging how much danger they find themselve in at times and as you say one fo the few countries who are not armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 BBC site reporting that police tried a taser but it was ineffective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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