Major incident in Glasgow City Centre

[Ibrahim Tall]

2 hours ago, trotter said:

I'm sure they are taught that, but in certain cases (the guy on the bridge in London a few months back with the fake bomb vest) they are going for a kill shot. No messing about then

Different situation tbh, if someone is potentially wearing a vest the ‘safest’ shot is to the head. Shooting a bomb might detonate it.

[Cade]

When they're all spread out, the homeless problem is easy to ignore.

Now they're all herded together during this pandemic the scale becomes much clearer to see.

[Sharpie]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah we had the discussion about shooting to incapacitate attackers, I don’t think they’re trained to shoot to kill. Easy for me to say though, it will all be forensically investigated. 
Horrific for all concerned. 

 I seem to remember that thread , I know I advised in one thread with a similar vain that I had been trained as a police officer and a military man and was never once advised in firearms training to shoot to injure. It was always shoot at body mass the ultimate to kill, if it only injured lucky for the target but if he was able to move sufficient to attempt to kill or injure he should be shot again. No real human being wants to impose death on anyone , but some do and have to be treated accordingly.

When your job involves the tragedy of death on a daily basis, and you deal with bad and good, and see the emotional and physical damage the bad can do to take lethal action is not easy but if you are trained properly, and have a good head on your shoulders the decision is not too difficult.

[BudgeUp]

5 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Nationalism fuels division - THEY are different to US.

Gives bangers the fuel for their fire- both sides.

It makes it acceptable. The English are different , the catholic’s are different , black people are different .

No, they ain’t . Good people just want to get on with their lives in peace and stability.

Nationalism fuels instability.

By that token you should vote snp. 

 

What you describe there has more chance of happening in an independent Scotland than Tory Britain where division is the norm. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, Tazio said:

Indeed, I’ve spoken to a couple of the homeless guys on Lothian Road and they’re wary of hostels as they can be violent places. Lots of people on the edge, potentially with mental health issues, in close confinement Is a breeding ground for trouble. 

Yes that's very true. There have been numerous incidents at the Old Waverley Hotel in Edinburgh which is currently accommodating homeless people. One of my colleagues is currently working there and within the hotel things seem to be fine as staff keep it well under control. Bethany church and the social work dept are currently running it. I worked in a cafe for homeless people and there was always an undercurrent of tension/ violence. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by JamesM48

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

When they're all spread out, the homeless problem is easy to ignore.

Now they're all herded together during this pandemic the scale becomes much clearer to see.

 

Genuinely interested how Paris are coping right now.

 

Very eye opening, every underground station is packed with sleeping bags

[fabienleclerq]

3 hours ago, theshed said:

 

I didn’t realise how bad a problem it is till lockdown started then you see them all when walking through the town .... it’s really bad  

 

Yeah they seem concentrated at the moment, I dunno if it's because there are less people to ask for money etc. I coukd imagine some people finding it quite intimidating. 

[superjack]

5 hours ago, Adam Murray said:

A small video of the difficulty facing police when dealing with someone armed with a knife.

 

**ADULT CONTENT**   ** DISTRESSING SCENES**

 

PLEASE REMOVE IF INAPPROPIATE MODS.

 

 

https://www.full30.com/embed/MDIxMjI3?fbclid=IwAR0XmEpx30NRCCWH1-HCRr4mt_i95DdamnAkye8Wi0vQ4_kUh74jVnEyydQ

As brutal as that video is, I did watch it, it proves 1 thing. Not all cops in america are the trigger happy type that a lot of people assume they are.

I would hate to be in that position that they were in. They tried not to shoot him, it was a last resort. 

In that case, the police were left with no alternative but to shoot.

Maybe if all american police acted with the same restraint as what was seen in this video there would be no riots in america, no unnecessary violent protests elsewhere.

I know I have drifted off topic, sorry, but I honestly believe that the armed cops in the UK usually always act like this.

[Pasquale for King]

Do armed police usually turn up at a stabbing incident in Scotland, is there another reason they responded?

[Pasquale for King]

48 minutes ago, superjack said:

As brutal as that video is, I did watch it, it proves 1 thing. Not all cops in america are the trigger happy type that a lot of people assume they are.

I would hate to be in that position that they were in. They tried not to shoot him, it was a last resort. 

In that case, the police were left with no alternative but to shoot.

Maybe if all american police acted with the same restraint as what was seen in this video there would be no riots in america, no unnecessary violent protests elsewhere.

I know I have drifted off topic, sorry, but I honestly believe that the armed cops in the UK usually always act like this.

Does the Tottenham riots ring a bell?

[obua]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Do armed police usually turn up at a stabbing incident in Scotland, is there another reason they responded?

Why wouldn’t armed police turn up, if someone is armed with a knife would you expect it to be treated like a run of the mill call out.

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, obua said:

Why wouldn’t armed police turn up, if someone is armed with a knife would you expect it to be treated like a run of the mill call out.

Apparently they’ve never turned up at a stabbing before anywhere in Scotland, they don’t do it usually as it’s not procedure it seems. The normal Police were there after 2 minutes and they appeared after 5, someone maybe said it was a terrorist attack.

[obua]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Apparently they’ve never turned up at a stabbing before anywhere in Scotland, they don’t do it usually as it’s not procedure it seems. The normal Police were there after 2 minutes and they appeared after 5, someone maybe said it was a terrorist attack.

You really think the armed police sit by when there is a knife attack and only respond if it’s called as a terrorist incident.

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, obua said:

You really think the armed police sit by when there is a knife attack and only respond if it’s called as a terrorist incident.

I don’t think that at all, I know it. Armed Police were there two minutes after being called, it's not clear by who, maybe the other officers who were first in the scene. It’s not common practice apparently. 
Twice it says armed criminals or those with firearms.

https://www.pfoa.co.uk/articles/armed-police

Edited June 27, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[redjambo]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Apparently they’ve never turned up at a stabbing before anywhere in Scotland, they don’t do it usually as it’s not procedure it seems. The normal Police were there after 2 minutes and they appeared after 5, someone maybe said it was a terrorist attack.

 

A chap held someone hostage with a knife in a house in my town last year. There were armed police in the response unit. So, I think this isn't correct.

[obua]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t think that at all, I know it. Armed Police were there two minutes after being called, it's not clear by who, maybe the other officers who were first in the scene. It’s not common practice apparently. 
Twice it says armed criminals or those with firearms.

https://www.pfoa.co.uk/articles/armed-police

I’m out you read that how you want it to suit your narrative.

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

A chap held someone hostage with a knife in a house in my town last year. There were armed police in the response unit. So, I think this isn't correct.

That’s not a stabbing is it? 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, obua said:

I’m out you read that how you want it to suit your narrative.

Just seems an interesting aside to what happened yesterday that’s all. It was unarmed PCs that arrested the guy in Reading last week. 

[obua]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Just seems an interesting aside to what happened yesterday that’s all. It was unarmed PCs that arrested the guy in Reading last week. 

Probably because they were first on the scene, Armed police are few in numbers in comparison and usually take longer to get there.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, obua said:

Probably because they were first on the scene, Armed police are few in numbers in comparison and usually take longer to get there.

I think they have to be called separately sometimes. Like this a few months back in London.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/09/westminster-shooting-police-kill-suspect-who-had-knives-says-met

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s not a stabbing is it? 

 

You could argue that it is less serious than a stabbing - it's someone with a knife threatening to commit violence, not someone who has already used that knife and is threatening further violence against others. And yet, there were two armed officers present at the incident.

 

Pasquale, I'm sorry but as far as I can see here you're not talking from a position of knowledge. You've made something up and are now trying to defend your position.

 

[obua]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

You could argue that it is less serious than a stabbing - it's someone with a knife threatening to commit violence, not someone who has already used that knife and is threatening further violence against others. And yet, there were two armed officers present at the incident.

 

Pasquale, I'm sorry but as far as I can see here you're not talking from a position of knowledge. You've made something up and are now trying to defend your position.

 

I’m no expert, it seems like common sense to me. Thanks for your input. 

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

You could argue that it is less serious than a stabbing - it's someone with a knife threatening to commit violence, not someone who has already used that knife and is threatening further violence against others. And yet, there were two armed officers present at the incident.

 

Pasquale, I'm sorry but as far as I can see here you're not talking from a position of knowledge. You've made something up and are now trying to defend your position.

 

You’re right I have no knowledge, do you, but it doesn’t seem to be the done thing to do it up here, I can’t find anything anywhere that’s says it’s happened before. 
Doesn’t matter a jot in the grand scheme I was just wondering why and who called them in if it’s not normal procedure. I didn’t make it up, I shared a link from the Police stating when armed officers usually respond.
There used to be a lot of knife crime in Glasgow, surely armed cops didn’t turn to every incident. Practically impossible in London nowadays.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691

Edited June 27, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Tazio]

I’m quite positive that every major city has armed officers camped out somewhere in the city centre at all times. 

[Shanks said no]

Just now, Tazio said:

I’m quite positive that every major city has armed officers camped out somewhere in the city centre at all times. 

 

Often sitting at Haymarket Station

[obua]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You’re right I have no knowledge but it doesn’t seem to be the done thing to do it up here, I can’t find anything anywhere that’s says it’s happened before. 
Doesn’t matter a jot in the grand scheme I was just wondering why and who called them in if it’s not normal procedure. There used to be a lot of knife crime in Glasgow, surely armed cops didn’t turn to every incident. Practically impossible in London nowadays.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691

When there used to be a lot of knife crime in Glasgow there wasn’t so many armed police, And now your comparing what happened in Glasgow to London now.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Tazio said:

I’m quite positive that every major city has armed officers camped out somewhere in the city centre at all times. 

They do, the question is do they respond to stabbings.

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, obua said:

When there used to be a lot of knife crime in Glasgow there wasn’t so many armed police, And now your comparing what happened in Glasgow to London now.

Yes I’m comparing as to show it’s unlikely that every stabbing,in places where unfortunately it happens a lot, have armed police respond. Am I not allowed to compare them?

[Sharpie]

If I am reading the original reports properly a man with a knife has already stabbed a police officer, and several members of the public, armed response should not only be directed it should be the first and priority order under the circumstances. I saw a comment on here about a man with a knife ,which was pointed out was not a stabbing, I guess its the simple mind of an old policeman but if someone reported to me that there was a man with a knife even in my unarmed days he was going down and fast, and not under Queensberry Rules, in my armed days my weapon would be at the ready and any aggressive act by the suspect would be responded to with a'38 to the body mass. I would leave the shot to injure to Clint Eastwood, his attacker was another actor.

I don't know how many of you have ben in a death threatening situation, but as I have related often I have, and I again repeating myself held a fully loaded cocked Sten gun under his chin, until fortunately about two seconds before he would have died the true reason for his actions were revealed as wrong but but not lethal.

 

I have also told the story of the gang who robbed an armored car and killed a policeman and some security personnel in London. That night when we paraded for night shift there were two detectives at the Craigmillar office. They advised us that the suspects were reported to be in a house in Bingham and we were to accompany the Detectives to arrest them. We were told they were probably heavily armed. I asked about weapons for us, he said they had been authorised but no one knew where the key for the armory was. I advised sarcastically that I was prepared to take a post at the Bingham bus terminus as they might try to get way on a "4 bus and escape. Fortunately before we could be detailed the information was proved wrong.

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

They do, the question is do they respond to stabbings.

I’d imagine they do if it’s an extreme case. There’s a difference between a couple of dafties and someone going tonto attacking multiple people. 

[obua]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

They do, the question is do they respond to stabbings.

They are on duty, they will respond to any incident.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, obua said:

They are on duty, they will respond to any incident.

You know that for a fact. The last time I phoned them for a group of guys fighting outside the Diggers they didn’t turn up.

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I’d imagine they do if it’s an extreme case. There’s a difference between a couple of dafties and someone going tonto attacking multiple people. 

They probably should but I can’t find any info saying they normally do.

[Sharpie]

I can't believe that anyone being reported as armed with a knife could be subject to a suggestion that sounds to me  like he has done nothing wrong and its not an armed police matter until someone is actually stabbed. 

[Tazio]

Imagine that, police direct action policy not being available to any Tom, Dick, and Harry. 

[Sharpie]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You know that for a fact. The last time I phoned them for a group of guys fighting outside the Diggers they didn’t turn up.

 

Not after having been intimidated by you  that should never tell you what to do, I will take the risk of advising if you see a fight outside Diggers on a Saturday, or any day, just keep on walking, it will sort itself out. Mebbe they thought it was a lot of boys pavement dancing with fists and they don't attend until an actual punch is thrown. Not telling you what to do just for the benefit of other posters using JKB to advise how to avoid trouble.

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

2 hours ago, Sharpie said:

I can't believe that anyone being reported as armed with a knife could be subject to a suggestion that sounds to me  like he has done nothing wrong and its not an armed police matter until someone is actually stabbed. 

I would assume armed police are sent to vast majority of city centre knife crimes, even though they may not intervene they are very likely to be held close by on stand by.

[The Mighty Thor]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Apparently they’ve never turned up at a stabbing before anywhere in Scotland, they don’t do it usually as it’s not procedure it seems. The normal Police were there after 2 minutes and they appeared after 5, someone maybe said it was a terrorist attack.

If there is somebody armed in an incident then the armed police would be called out as a matter of course. 

They are called out to hundreds of knife calls every year.

There was a recent video of some fud in Stirling running about with machete who was contained by the police until the armed response arrived and tasered him. 

[FWJ]

(Before I get jumped on for being ‘soft on crime’ - I’ll say it looks like shooting the knifeman was a grim but necessary thing to do) 

Were Tazers ever considered?  I suppose if they don’t know if he has a gun as well?  But a dead person can’t give you any information.

[William H. Bonney]

armed police in Scotland sent to over 5000 routine incidents. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-48140508

Edited June 27, 2020 by Furious Styles

[kila]

I recall something a while ago that they were looking at having some routinely officers armed in likes of Inverness as the nearest armed response unit is too far away.

 

In cities these units are nearby. No surprise they were called out to this incident. Imagine if they hadn’t. 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Barack said:

Wasn't there a big to-do made a year or two ago up in Inverness? Where the ARU's were just patrolling the town?🤔

 

 

Edit: Just checked. Yes.

I remember that.

Any idea what it was about?

Imagine the seethe on here if it started up again.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/inverness/275449/alarm-after-armed-cops-spotted-in-inverness-shops/

Edited June 27, 2020 by The Real Maroonblood

[Beast Boy]

Sad that everyone from far right politicians to random wankers on the internet are using this very sad incident as a political hot potato. Blaming it on Scottish Nationalism is a new one though. Bravo.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

ARU's, when they're not shooting people, are just regular cops. And they're expected to fulfil their roles on a day to day basis as required by  Inspector/Chief Inspectors of that day/night. I've seen ARU's do regular stopping of steamin' folk in Cardiff City Centre. 

 

It seems as if it was pretty much that, and a few people raised their eyebrows, and questioned local MP's if it was necessary. John Swinnie got involved iirc. The Chief Inspector quietly phased visible patrols out after it. But if you see a blacked out X5, you know what it's all about anyway.

 

 

I edited my post with a link.

It must be quite daunting seeing armed police.

I certainly wouldn’t like it on a regular basis.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/inverness/275449/alarm-after-armed-cops-spotted-in-inverness-shops/

Ditto.

[Jamhammer]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

They do, the question is do they respond to stabbings.

I'm pretty sure every case is assessed and if certain criteria are met then they will be deployed. Seems to work and, would imagine will be constantly reviewed following incidents such as Dunblane, Airport attack etc.

I think we have the balance about right in Scotland when it comes to the equipment our regular cops have. Sadly a stab proof vest only protects your core. I appreciate that's where most of the good stuff is however you're still vulnerable

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, Barack said:

Remember down in Nottingham when I was visiting my brother. Was in a queue for Tesco self-serve till. There was an armed cop about two in front of me. Handgun only strapped to his leg, as per.

 

Guy in front of him obviously didn't know he was behind him, and as he was waiting he looked about as you do. Seen the cop and did that wee double take you do, when you see an armed unit.

 

Fair play, he looked at him and said: "Bloody hell mate, didn't know the shoplifting was that bad!"

 

Oh, it got a chuckle.

 

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 minutes ago, Barack said:

Inverness. Again.

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/inverness/1767721/armed-police-called-to-inverness-car-park-after-man-refused-to-drop-kitchen-knife/

 

Drunk about a bottle and a half of vodka instead of attending a hospital appointment.

Fair enough.

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, Barack said:

And it goes back to what FWJ raised earlier and is a fair question; about was deadly force required?

In the above situation, a dog-handler had already given information of the guy. The shop & security staff did too. The Police found him in the open, in a car-park, half-cut. Plenty room to risk assess from a distance and use the required level of force.

 

Yesterday, the guy stabbed amongst others a PC. Raises tensions immediately. If a person is not only prepared to stab random people,(though apparently they knew each other...but that's another story) but a policeman. Then the threat level to the armed response unit increases. Added into it, he was in his room and the first two in that door will have no way of knowing who, or what else was in that room.

 

And like I said, there's no cop on this Earth bar Robo-Cop, is going to go through that door armed with just a taser. What happened in those next 10 seconds or so, will only become public knowledge once the IPCC has completed its investigation.

Good post.

[Pasquale for King]

7 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 

Not after having been intimidated by you  that should never tell you what to do, I will take the risk of advising if you see a fight outside Diggers on a Saturday, or any day, just keep on walking, it will sort itself out. Mebbe they thought it was a lot of boys pavement dancing with fists and they don't attend until an actual punch is thrown. Not telling you what to do just for the benefit of other posters using JKB to advise how to avoid trouble.

To not turn up at all was out of order, I was answering a statement that they would turn up at any incident. Have I got to say they were armed to get a response?