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The Proposed New UK Immigration System


Highlander

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I know a few folk on Kickback have strong views at both ends of the political debate on immigration. I do not have a strong persuasion either way but, prompted by the dialogue, I wrote this short 200 word piece for the weekly column I have in my local newspaper about the UK Government's proposed new bill: https://ewangurr.scot/2020/06/08/a-priti-new-style-of-immigration/. [I've posted this link because the newspaper site is behind a paywall.]

It has sparked a lively debate debate on the newspaper letters page so I am intrigued to know what those on here think of the new bill and if it is more or less likely to eliminate or inflame the debate around immigration. The new bill has attracted derision today from those as far to the right as a former board member of Vote Leave and on the other side (and more close to home) from the Scottish Government. The former is concerned by how lenient the bill is and the latter has expressed concern about how tight it is. 

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Weakened Offender

Anything that will cause a series of nervous breakdowns amongst the right wing plebs that poison the country gets a thumbs up from me. 👍

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I think moving around the world should be every human and animals god giving right. As long as your not a violent nasty criminal. You can stay in prison. 

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29 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I think moving around the world should be every human and animals god giving right. As long as your not a violent nasty criminal. You can stay in prison. 

Firmly believe that people should have the right, but there has to be some element of control IMO. Nothing to do with immigrants themselves, more overcrowding, lack of housing, stress on the health system etc.

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3 minutes ago, Locky said:

Firmly believe that people should have the right, but there has to be some element of control IMO. Nothing to do with immigrants themselves, more overcrowding, lack of housing, stress on the health system etc.

👍 Of course. I was just thinking out loud. 

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5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

👍 Of course. I was just thinking out loud. 

Think the delicate thing is coming up with a system that doesn't necessarily discriminate against people of certain backgrounds or the likes. Oh to be a politician.

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Well if you make the UK such a shitehole that nobody would ever want to move here, then immigration naturally falls.

That's the only explanation for the last ten years.

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47 minutes ago, Locky said:

Firmly believe that people should have the right, but there has to be some element of control IMO. Nothing to do with immigrants themselves, more overcrowding, lack of housing, stress on the health system etc.

Is absolutely the correct answer. The problem is though that as soon as you begin to discuss it at any level, people that are entrenched on either of the two sides (more/less immigration) immediately begin to shout loudly so no meaningful discussion can actually take place about how to actually go about 'sorting it'. 

 

Not too sure if they still do it, but Australia's points-based system, whilst not perfect, had some merits I reckon. Especially the bit where you get bonus points if you are trained in a career that is currently under-resourced. 

On the other end of the spectrum I've just received my advanced parole and employment authorization over here as part of my Green Card application. That's taken 17 months and almost $20,000 so far, and the immigration lawyer has told me it could be at least another 12 before I actually get the card. Could be worse though, as a result of the US's strict 7% per country GC cap in combination with a lot of IT companies basically taking the piss with visa graduates, the waiting time for an Indian national is currently in the region of 30 YEARS

No wonder people try to skip the border from Mexico, it's a damn sight easier than doing it legally...*

*tongue-firmly-in-cheek for anyone reading this via ECHELON

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magic roundabout

Always a difficult subject but the current immigration system is grossly unfair to non EU citizens. 

 

I used to live abroad and married a non EU citizen. When we decided to move back to the UK I had to come back alone so I could start the process of meeting all the qualification requirements for my wife to come. This took 18 months!! That's a long time apart. 

 

Even now as my wife doesn't have indifite leave to remain she still has to pay NHS surcharge (even thou she works) and apply for visa every 2.5 years

 

The really daft thing is one of my wife's friend got German citizenship through marriage a couple of years ago  ... Theotrically she could move to UK permanently without paying immigration fees, NHS surcharge, requirement of English proficiency and be entitled to welfare. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'd rather have free movement of people. Rather than fussing about borders, I'd be more supportive of efforts to make work more legitimate so that grey and black economies are brought into line. Like how can it make sense that waiters in the US are paid so little that they have to rely on huge % tips to get by?. A cashless society should be able to do this. If you want the benefits of living in any country you should really be willing to pay the taxes of that country - I mean this within the limits that tax avoidance (minimisation) is fine but tax evasion is wrong. Only people who should receive benefits are disabled and sick. If you are healthy and can work then benefits should be gradually reduced in order to reach a level where such people are weaned off charity and into work. If you still cannot get work then move somewhere where you can -  perhaps relocation loans could be created for this. Also I would stop giving mobility scooters and car grants to people whose only problem is they are too fat and lazy to walk.

 

Anyway I don't want to say more than 200 words! so there is my brain puke!

Edited by Spellczech
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37 minutes ago, magic roundabout said:

Always a difficult subject but the current immigration system is grossly unfair to non EU citizens. 

 

I used to live abroad and married a non EU citizen. When we decided to move back to the UK I had to come back alone so I could start the process of meeting all the qualification requirements for my wife to come. This took 18 months!! That's a long time apart. 

 

Even now as my wife doesn't have indifite leave to remain she still has to pay NHS surcharge (even thou she works) and apply for visa every 2.5 years

 

The really daft thing is one of my wife's friend got German citizenship through marriage a couple of years ago  ... Theotrically she could move to UK permanently without paying immigration fees, NHS surcharge, requirement of English proficiency and be entitled to welfare. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True, although I believe it's even harder to gain German citizenship than British. 

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1 hour ago, trotter said:

Is absolutely the correct answer. The problem is though that as soon as you begin to discuss it at any level, people that are entrenched on either of the two sides (more/less immigration) immediately begin to shout loudly so no meaningful discussion can actually take place about how to actually go about 'sorting it'. 

 

Not too sure if they still do it, but Australia's points-based system, whilst not perfect, had some merits I reckon. Especially the bit where you get bonus points if you are trained in a career that is currently under-resourced. 

On the other end of the spectrum I've just received my advanced parole and employment authorization over here as part of my Green Card application. That's taken 17 months and almost $20,000 so far, and the immigration lawyer has told me it could be at least another 12 before I actually get the card. Could be worse though, as a result of the US's strict 7% per country GC cap in combination with a lot of IT companies basically taking the piss with visa graduates, the waiting time for an Indian national is currently in the region of 30 YEARS

No wonder people try to skip the border from Mexico, it's a damn sight easier than doing it legally...*

*tongue-firmly-in-cheek for anyone reading this via ECHELON

I think your post sadly sums up political chat as a whole right now. It's almost impossible to have an opinion without being labelled as left or right wing. I'm not really into politics, but of course I have an opinion on stuff. I would class myself more liberal for sure, but that's not to say those of a right wing persuasion never have any ideas.

 

Like you said, it just turns into a lot of whataboutery and shouting over one another about who is what. 

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1 hour ago, magic roundabout said:

Always a difficult subject but the current immigration system is grossly unfair to non EU citizens. 

 

I used to live abroad and married a non EU citizen. When we decided to move back to the UK I had to come back alone so I could start the process of meeting all the qualification requirements for my wife to come. This took 18 months!! That's a long time apart. 

 

Even now as my wife doesn't have indifite leave to remain she still has to pay NHS surcharge (even thou she works) and apply for visa every 2.5 years

 

The really daft thing is one of my wife's friend got German citizenship through marriage a couple of years ago  ... Theotrically she could move to UK permanently without paying immigration fees, NHS surcharge, requirement of English proficiency and be entitled to welfare. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is true and sadly not all relationships survive the stress. I hope it all gets sorted for you. My partner has indefinite leave to remain but only because she's a nurse. 

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magic roundabout
1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

This is true and sadly not all relationships survive the stress. I hope it all gets sorted for you. My partner has indefinite leave to remain but only because she's a nurse. 

 

Cheers... Yes we are all sorted my wife been here for 7 years. However, we have decided early next year we will both move permanently to her country.  In all fairness (as in country) its not exactly straightforward there as well.

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, magic roundabout said:

 

Cheers... Yes we are all sorted my wife been here for 7 years. However, we have decided early next year we will both move permanently to her country.  In all fairness (as in country) its not exactly straightforward there as well.

 

 

 

 

Out of interest, what country if she from? 

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Ron Burgundy

My work mate took years to be allowed to bring his wife and son over from Vietnam. Doesn't seem right at all.

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Time to be ruthless.  We are about to be faced with a quite stratospheric level of unemployment and we simply must get British people and those non Brits who are here already and have been contributing, back to work.

 

Immigration is very much required when we see an outflux of people but for the forseeable future no-one is going anywhere.  We are not a charity and shit has got very real.  I don't want a complete ban as there will always be exceptional circumstances but it has to be limited to very low number.

 

When we are back on our feet I would welcome net influx/outflux again but as it stands it is a no from me.

 

 

 

 

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On 12/06/2020 at 13:43, i8hibsh said:

Time to be ruthless.  We are about to be faced with a quite stratospheric level of unemployment and we simply must get British people and those non Brits who are here already and have been contributing, back to work.

 

Immigration is very much required when we see an outflux of people but for the forseeable future no-one is going anywhere.  We are not a charity and shit has got very real.  I don't want a complete ban as there will always be exceptional circumstances but it has to be limited to very low number.

 

When we are back on our feet I would welcome net influx/outflux again but as it stands it is a no from me.

 

So, for clarity, do you support the Conservatives' proposed new immigration system?  

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2 hours ago, Highlander said:

 

So, for clarity, do you support the Conservatives' proposed new immigration system?  

 

 

I only support the immigration system I specified.

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On 11/06/2020 at 20:31, Cade said:

maxresdefault.jpg

 

Saved you 200 words, chief.

 

You don't actually belive that do you?

 

I know it sounds 'radical' and will probably win a few 'likes' on Facebook if posted there but it is factually incorrect.

 

I ask you this question?  What country/countries do you feel have an immigration system more to your liking?  If the big bad vile UK is so bad, who should we use as a template?  

 

In 2018, there were 9.8 million non born UK residents living in the UK (almost double that of 10 years prior).  61% of this figure were born outside of the EU.  The majority of this figure are from India, Jamaica, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nigeria and Australia.

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-march-2019

 

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/

 

I am sick to the back teeth of every day hearing how bad we are as a people, how awful the UK is and how we should hang our head in shame.  It certainly fills a few sections on the BBC News homepage but it is a load of old bollocks.

 

There is not a more open and tolerant place on the planet than the UK in my opinion that has a better standard of living.  If it is so bad why do so many people want to come here I ask?

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On 12/06/2020 at 13:15, Ron Burgundy said:

My work mate took years to be allowed to bring his wife and son over from Vietnam. Doesn't seem right at all.

My Mrs was nearly deported to Canada, and she hadn't been in Canada since about 1969/70 as a baby. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I only support the immigration system I specified.

 

Got you. Cheers for clarifying. 

I think you make a salient point on the recruitment of British workers. This is a complex one though that needs explaining before people assume anti-immigrant rhetoric. For instance, where I live (in the north east of Scotland) berry-picking used to be a seasonal pay day for young workers outwith term time during the summer months. Each day, berry buses (as they were known) would transport young Dundee folk to the fields and back each day.

As the UK economy grew initially under the Conservatives, and wages were gradually increased more recently under the Labour years and over the period of two decades, berry-picking became a source of low-paid work for migrant workers who travel from Eastern Europe and camp in the field next to the berries. UK workers are not even offered these jobs now. 

People roll out of the trope that young UK citizens don't want to do a day's hard graft. Drivel! The only winners here are farmers who, due to seasonal loopholes, can avoid paying a living wage meaning young UK workers won't stand for it and European workers, willing to undergo a form of modern-day exploitation, will travel for several months each year to do a job that could easily be done by UK citizens if a fair wage was on offer.  

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