Black Lives Matter Protest.

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

What a ridiculous posting.  Change has come from protests,  rallies, petitions , etc.  No rights we have today were just given. The ruling classes / Govt dont just concede.  We have had to fight for them at times.  Demos etc reflect the mood in society and do effect change. At least you note that the poll tax  " riots" were  a very successful campaign.

Yes, its good to be reminded of this sometimes.

[Nucky Thompson]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Couple of my friends were there.  I was in two minds about it.  As the right to protest should always be protected  but I feel at this particular time It wasnt the best idea.  However I beleive that it was very well organised regarding social distancing , from the videos and pics my friends sent me. 

I'm surprised you even considered it, as I think it's you who washes down his shopping etc when returning from the supermarket

[Nucky Thompson]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Couple of my friends were there.  I was in two minds about it.  As the right to protest should always be protected  but I feel at this particular time It wasnt the best idea.  However I beleive that it was very well organised regarding social distancing , from the videos and pics my friends sent me. 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Nucky Thompson
double post

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I agree that tearing it down wasn’t the right way but they’d be trying to have this conversation for about 20 years. A Tory mp stopped a plaque from going up that explained what this man done as he feared it might be vandalised. Colston even got people branded on their chest with the name of the company, some of them children ffs. 
Thats shameful that statue wasn’t taken down and put in a museum. Been hearing quite a lot about Bristol today. Interesting. 

 

Bristol now has a Black mayor, who supported the statue's removal, by legal means, so it was only a matter of time before it was removed anyway and placed into a museum, that was what the Mayor was planning, but the mob decided they didn't want to wait for due process and took the law into their own hands.

 

Personally the statue shouldn't have been erected in the first place, but when it was erected over 100 years ago it was a completely different mind set, but what I do find disturbing is that some people decide they don't like something so lets just tear it down, as said slippery slope.

 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

We already have plenty monuments to famous Scots - Wallace, Bruce, Burns, Scott ( you won’t like that one), Hume, Clerk-Maxwell ( most Scots haven’t heard of him) Allan Ramsay, James Young Simpson, Watt, Fergusson,  even Dewar.

We even have a black Lady on Lothian Road.

 

 

It was just examples. Plenty others like Fleming, Bell, Maxwell and Macintosh. Who doesn't like Scott? Unionists did some great things for Scotland. 

[ri Alban]

Rip the lot down. Just wait til this Covid thingy is finished. 👍

[AlimOzturk]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

however you have plenty to say about those who do protest. 

 

I can say what the **** I want and there is nothing you can do to tell me otherwise. 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

We already have plenty monuments to famous Scots - Wallace, Bruce, Burns, Scott ( you won’t like that one), Hume, Clerk-Maxwell ( most Scots haven’t heard of him) Allan Ramsay, James Young Simpson, Watt, Fergusson,  even Dewar.

We even have a black Lady on Lothian Road.

 

 

Anyway it was street names. The monuments will be for Alex and Nicola. The saviours of Scotland.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well... you would start me. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah I was the same, I tried to go to the one in town on Wednesday that was well socially distanced but poorly organised. Ideally it wouldn’t have needed to happen but we are where we are, hopefully with it being outdoors and with proper protocols nobody was infected.

Hopefully 

[JudyJudyJudy]

39 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I'm surprised you even considered it, as I think it's you who washes down his shopping etc when returning from the supermarket

Well spotted Poirot !! Being outdoors is less risky as well as socially distancing. Ive said that time and again. I dont have any issues being outside , without a mask unless in a shop or enclosed space. I did explain why i didnt go. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

23 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

I can say what the **** I want and there is nothing you can do to tell me otherwise. 

You certainly do 

[William H. Bonney]

28 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Well spotted Poirot !! Being outdoors is less risky as well as socially distancing. Ive said that time and again. I dont have any issues being outside , without a mask unless in a shop or enclosed space. I did explain why i didnt go. 

**** all social distancing going on here. 
 

 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Bristol now has a Black mayor, who supported the statue's removal, by legal means, so it was only a matter of time before it was removed anyway and placed into a museum, that was what the Mayor was planning, but the mob decided they didn't want to wait for due process and took the law into their own hands.

 

Personally the statue shouldn't have been erected in the first place, but when it was erected over 100 years ago it was a completely different mind set, but what I do find disturbing is that some people decide they don't like something so lets just tear it down, as said slippery slope.

 

He’d been dead for over 120 years before they erected the statue too it seems a strange one all round. To hear that only recently the debt had been paid back that these slave traders were compensated is another pretty sickening thing to hear. They received what would be millions of pounds in today’s money...for basically stopping treating people worse than animals and they had this mans statue up in the city centre? 

Makes you wonder how many of these toffs are still living extremely wealthy lives due to this money their ancestors received. 
The more I heard about it’s clear the statue should’ve been down decades ago and although you can’t agree with how they done it I guess it wasn’t a huge surprise. Almost like Bristol was proud of this guy or something, ridiculous lol. 
The defacing of the cenotaph is another matter completely for me though. 
They need a hiding them. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Ray Gin]

.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Ray Gin

[Ray Gin]

40 minutes ago, Furious Styles said:

**** all social distancing going on here. 
 

 

 

Many playing fast and loose with the 2 metres rule there.

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Bristol now has a Black mayor, who supported the statue's removal, by legal means, so it was only a matter of time before it was removed anyway and placed into a museum, that was what the Mayor was planning, but the mob decided they didn't want to wait for due process and took the law into their own hands.

 

Personally the statue shouldn't have been erected in the first place, but when it was erected over 100 years ago it was a completely different mind set, but what I do find disturbing is that some people decide they don't like something so lets just tear it down, as said slippery slope.

 

I quite agree. I'm a little bit the other way. I think the statue should have remained in place as a reminder of our shameful past. 

 

As you say though, you can't go around just tearing shit up because you don't like it. 

[Cruyff]

42 minutes ago, Furious Styles said:

**** all social distancing going on here. 
 

 

Absolute idiots. 

 

They're lucky i'm not incharge or there'd be AC-130 gunships inbound.

 

(Also joking)

[Jambo-Jimbo]

25 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

He’d been dead for over 120 years before they erected the statue too it seems a strange one all round. To hear that only recently the debt had been paid back that these slave traders were compensated is another pretty sickening thing to hear. They received what would be millions of pounds in today’s money...for basically stopping treating people worse than animals and they had this mans statue up in the city centre? 

Makes you wonder how many of these toffs are still living extremely wealthy lives due to this money their ancestors received. 
The more I heard about it’s clear the statue should’ve been down decades ago and although you can’t agree with how they done it I guess it wasn’t a huge surprise. Almost like Bristol was proud of this guy or something, ridiculous lol. 
The defacing of the cenotaph is another matter completely for me though. 
They need a hiding them. 

 

Yeh, you'd think that after he'd been dead for 120 years it wouldn't have mattered whether a statue was erected or not.

As I said different era, different mind set, it wouldn't have been erected today that's for sure.

 

Trying to set fire to a flag at the cenotaph, that won't win anybody any friends, that crossed a line for me.

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yeh, you'd think that after he'd been dead for 120 years it wouldn't have mattered whether a statue was erected or not.

As I said different era, different mind set, it wouldn't have been erected today that's for sure.

 

Trying to set fire to a flag at the cenotaph, that won't win anybody any friends, that crossed a line for me.

Absolutely jim, different times and thinking. 
Recently though it should’ve been moved to a museum and explaining who he was etc. 
Imo anyway. 

[jack D and coke]

17 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I quite agree. I'm a little bit the other way. I think the statue should have remained in place as a reminder of our shameful past. 

 

As you say though, you can't go around just tearing shit up because you don't like it. 

They had spoken about putting up plaques etc to explain about him but this was knocked back as it might be vandalised. This statue has been a bone of contention for at least 20 years in Bristol. I didn’t realise no black artists would ever play at the theatre named after him etc I’d never heard of the guy before. 
On your last point I think we should have more civil disobedience at times, especially up here. Not like over in the states and setting fire and turning the place to shit but show some intent. We’re far too passive. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by jack D and coke

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

👎😝🤮 I know. It’s my own fault!

🤣

[ri Alban]

23 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

They had spoken about putting up plaques etc to explain about him but this was knocked back as it might be vandalised. This statue has been a bone of contention for at least 20 years in Bristol. I didn’t realise no black artists would ever play at the theatre named after him etc I’d never heard of the guy before. 
On your last point I think we should have more civil disobedience at times, especially up here. Not like over in the states and setting fire and turning the place to shit but show some intent. We’re far too passive. 

Is it a good idea to forget what these feckers did? Maybe it should be left so we can't forget what we did to the world. Just a thought. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

He’d been dead for over 120 years before they erected the statue too it seems a strange one all round. To hear that only recently the debt had been paid back that these slave traders were compensated is another pretty sickening thing to hear. They received what would be millions of pounds in today’s money...for basically stopping treating people worse than animals and they had this mans statue up in the city centre? 

Makes you wonder how many of these toffs are still living extremely wealthy lives due to this money their ancestors received. 
The more I heard about it’s clear the statue should’ve been down decades ago and although you can’t agree with how they done it I guess it wasn’t a huge surprise. Almost like Bristol was proud of this guy or something, ridiculous lol. 
The defacing of the cenotaph is another matter completely for me though. 
They need a hiding them. 

He was a Tory MP so that’s part of the outrage at why it happened and maybe why it was erected. I saw the mayor on tv today,  I don’t agree with putting these statues in museums, by all means mention them somehow but don’t take up valuable space with folk like him.

The protestors shouldn’t have been allowed near the Cenotaph really.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Is it a good idea to forget what these feckers did? Maybe it should be left so we can't forget what we did to the world. Just a thought. 

This was the argument from someone on TV ages ago, there was a campaign to get it removed but having it there and plaques around explaining about slvery and his part in could/should be used as an educational tool if you like, I thought it was a good idea.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

This was the argument from someone on TV ages ago, there was a campaign to get it removed but having it there and plaques around explaining about slvery and his part in could/should be used as an educational tool if you like, I thought it was a good idea.

👍  

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

What a ridiculous posting.  Change has come from protests,  rallies, petitions , etc.  No rights we have today were just given. The ruling classes / Govt dont just concede.  We have had to fight for them at times.  Demos etc reflect the mood in society and do effect change. At least you note that the poll tax  " riots" were  a very successful campaign.

How magnanimous of you to mention the one example  I quoted that supported your argument but fail to  respond to the other examples I quoted which didn't. Your theory of how change happens is simplistic in the extreme. Or do I mean ridiculous.

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Is it a good idea to forget what these feckers did? Maybe it should be left so we can't forget what we did to the world. Just a thought. 

I haven’t done anything to the world mate neither have you. I don’t like the notion that me or you should be sorry tbh, that stuff really winds me up. I’m neither proud nor ashamed of the British empire it’s nothing to do with me. 
But I can see the point of the black people here they’re walking past a statue of a man who traded in their ancestors blood and treated them worse than he probably treated his horses. Imagine a statue of Longshanks or Cromwell or something in Glasgow, you’d shed no tears if they were chucked in the Clyde. 
The statue for me should’ve been put in a museum and explained who he was and what him and others done. That’s just a bit respect surely? 

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I haven’t done anything to the world mate neither have you. I don’t like the notion that me or you should be sorry tbh, that stuff really winds me up. I’m neither proud nor ashamed of the British empire it’s nothing to do with me. 
But I can see the point of the black people here they’re walking past a statue of a man who traded in their ancestors blood and treated them worse than he probably treated his horses. Imagine a statue of Longshanks or Cromwell or something in Glasgow, you’d shed no tears if they were chucked in the Clyde. 
The statue for me should’ve been put in a museum and explained who he was and what him and others done. That’s just a bit respect surely? 

Public toilet

[JJ93]

4 hours ago, weehammy said:

Why don’t we see demonstrations about the executions and imprisonment without trial in China and Iran, the murders of women in Mexico and journalists in Russia, the daily murders of dozens of black men (by other black men) in Cape Town.

None of these are as trendy as a good old anti-American/ anti- colonialism demo.

Exactly.

[Ray Gin]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I haven’t done anything to the world mate neither have you. I don’t like the notion that me or you should be sorry tbh, that stuff really winds me up. I’m neither proud nor ashamed of the British empire it’s nothing to do with me. 
But I can see the point of the black people here they’re walking past a statue of a man who traded in their ancestors blood and treated them worse than he probably treated his horses. Imagine a statue of Longshanks or Cromwell or something in Glasgow, you’d shed no tears if they were chucked in the Clyde. 
The statue for me should’ve been put in a museum and explained who he was and what him and others done. That’s just a bit respect surely? 

 

Agreed.

[Ray Gin]

4 hours ago, weehammy said:

Why don’t we see demonstrations about the executions and imprisonment without trial in China and Iran, the murders of women in Mexico and journalists in Russia, the daily murders of dozens of black men (by other black men) in Cape Town.

None of these are as trendy as a good old anti-American/ anti- colonialism demo.

 

I'm guessing you probably do...in China, Iran, Mexico and Russia.

 

Anti-racism is obviously more of a global issue. 

[Angel eyes]

While everybody examines the rights and wrongs, ayes and no’s and considering this is a football forum.....was/is there not an issue with the next World Cup and how the stadia was built and by who will that matter of fact be considered when it rolls round....

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, weehammy said:

But these demonstrations are about something that happened in America, where neither race relations nor policing can be remotely compared with the UK.

Also, surely violence against women is a global issue.

 

Racism is very much a UK thing too.

 

As for protests about violence against women: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-50557784

 

 

[Francis Albert]

58 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I'm guessing you probably do...in China, Iran, Mexico and Russia.

 

Anti-racism is obviously more of a global issue. 

Demonstrations in  China Iran and Russia? What world do you live in?

[Ray Gin]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Demonstrations in  China Iran and Russia? What world do you live in?

 

Protests do happen in these countries. A quick Google search will confirm this. 

[Francis Albert]

9 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Protests do happen in these countries. A quick Google search will confirm this. 

Oh they happen.The response is shall we say usually rather more robust than we are used to. 

[Norm]

Take the statues down. Replace them with a bunch of guys in chains and a sign detailing all the stuff in the towns, that were built from the profits of buying and selling other human beings. You can still have educational stuff telling people about the mistakes of the past and the horrors committed, without a monument to the ****ers who committed them. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Normthebarman

[kila]

What the UK needs to face up to in all this, especially since the wealth from this sickening compensation is what's helped fund the current ruling class...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/29/slavery-abolition-compensation-when-will-britain-face-up-to-its-crimes-against-humanity

 

Quote

On 3 August 1835, somewhere in the City of London, two of Europe’s most famous bankers came to an agreement with the chancellor of the exchequer. Two years earlier, the British government had passed the Slavery Abolition Act, which outlawed slavery in most parts of the empire. Now it was taking out one of the largest loans in history, to finance the slave compensation package required by the 1833 act. Nathan Mayer Rothschild and his brother-in-law Moses Montefiore agreed to loan the British government £15m, with the government adding an additional £5m later. The total sum represented 40% of the government’s yearly income in those days, equivalent to some £300bn today.

 

You might expect this so-called “slave compensation” to have gone to the freed slaves to redress the injustices they suffered. Instead, the money went exclusively to the owners of slaves, who were being compensated for the loss of what had, until then, been considered their property. Not a single shilling of reparation, nor a single word of apology, has ever been granted by the British state to the people it enslaved, or their descendants.

 

Today, 1835 feels so long ago; so far away. But if you are a British taxpayer, what happened in that quiet room affects you directly. Your taxes were used to pay off the loan, and the payments only ended in 2015. Generations of Britons have been implicated in a legacy of financial support for one of the world’s most egregious crimes against humanity.

 

[Norm]

16 minutes ago, kila said:

What the UK needs to face up to in all this, especially since the wealth from this sickening compensation is what's helped fund the current ruling class...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/29/slavery-abolition-compensation-when-will-britain-face-up-to-its-crimes-against-humanity

 

 

Am I completely imagining Tony Blair saying sorry, then? I was sure he apologised for it.

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I haven’t done anything to the world mate neither have you. I don’t like the notion that me or you should be sorry tbh, that stuff really winds me up. I’m neither proud nor ashamed of the British empire it’s nothing to do with me. 
But I can see the point of the black people here they’re walking past a statue of a man who traded in their ancestors blood and treated them worse than he probably treated his horses. Imagine a statue of Longshanks or Cromwell or something in Glasgow, you’d shed no tears if they were chucked in the Clyde. 
The statue for me should’ve been put in a museum and explained who he was and what him and others done. That’s just a bit respect surely? 

Very good post, Jack.   Pretty much my thoughts too.  I have a vague recollection of history lessons at school about the "slave trade", and thinking ......wow, really ?  Rich people in our country  used to do that ?      But I just accepted that it was 150 odd years ago, and was no longer relevant to anything modern.   (Yes... I know... slavery still exists without the racist aspect, purely thugs picking on poor defenseless victims to make money for them).    

 

Another thing I can't get my head around as a white person.     It would appear that  the concept of "brotherhood" is pretty strong for "black people" across the world - whether they be of Asian or African descent, regardless of which country they live in.   Example being  the BLM protests.    Probably the same for Hispanics across the world.    Yet it doesn't seem to be the same for "white" folk.     We seem more likely  to find reasons for avoiding  that sort of connection with other white folk - different nationality or religion or politics.       I often wonder why that is.  Is it arrogance on our part ?  Do we just  see white as the default majority  in the developed world ?     Are we right or wrong  to have such a loose awareness of  the "white" race ?   Quite odd.

[Dawnrazor]

Rioters burning a homeless mans stuff, nice.

[Francis Albert]

11 hours ago, kila said:

What the UK needs to face up to in all this, especially since the wealth from this sickening compensation is what's helped fund the current ruling class...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/29/slavery-abolition-compensation-when-will-britain-face-up-to-its-crimes-against-humanity

 

 

I didn't pay any tax in 1835. I very much doubt any of my ancestors did either.

[Francis Albert]

10 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Very good post, Jack.   Pretty much my thoughts too.  I have a vague recollection of history lessons at school about the "slave trade", and thinking ......wow, really ?  Rich people in our country  used to do that ?      But I just accepted that it was 150 odd years ago, and was no longer relevant to anything modern.   (Yes... I know... slavery still exists without the racist aspect, purely thugs picking on poor defenseless victims to make money for them).    

 

Another thing I can't get my head around as a white person.     It would appear that  the concept of "brotherhood" is pretty strong for "black people" across the world - whether they be of Asian or African descent, regardless of which country they live in.   Example being  the BLM protests.    Probably the same for Hispanics across the world.    Yet it doesn't seem to be the same for "white" folk.     We seem more likely  to find reasons for avoiding  that sort of connection with other white folk - different nationality or religion or politics.       I often wonder why that is.  Is it arrogance on our part ?  Do we just  see white as the default majority  in the developed world ?     Are we right or wrong  to have such a loose awareness of  the "white" race ?   Quite odd.

So "the concept of "brotherhood" is pretty strong for "black people" across the world"?. Tell that to millions of Muslims  incarcerated in China. Or to Hindis and Muslims killing each other in India. Or for that matter to black parents in the US and UK (and Mexico and elsewhere) desperately trying to protect their children from drug and gang culture dominated by black people. Or to the Chinese in the west who in my experience  don't "identify" as black, and do better on measures of education and health than the white population. Of course some will and do attribute all the inter-racial issues to whites and some can certainly be attributed to history and colonialism. 

But these issues deserve more than a slogan on a placard (though the Guardian's in depth analysis is often no less trite).

[kila]

26 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I didn't pay any tax in 1835. I very much doubt any of my ancestors did either.

 

The loan only got paid off in 2015 so your taxes were used if you live and worked in the UK

 

[Francis Albert]

16 minutes ago, kila said:

 

The loan only got paid off in 2015 so your taxes were used if you live and worked in the UK

 

I stand corrected. I suppose the positive way to look at it is that I contributed to ending the slave trade. Of course the wrong people were "compensated" but perhaps that at the time was the only way it could have been done.

[luckyBatistuta]

15 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I haven’t done anything to the world mate neither have you. I don’t like the notion that me or you should be sorry tbh, that stuff really winds me up. I’m neither proud nor ashamed of the British empire it’s nothing to do with me. 
But I can see the point of the black people here they’re walking past a statue of a man who traded in their ancestors blood and treated them worse than he probably treated his horses. Imagine a statue of Longshanks or Cromwell or something in Glasgow, you’d shed no tears if they were chucked in the Clyde. 
The statue for me should’ve been put in a museum and explained who he was and what him and others done. That’s just a bit respect surely? 

[I P Knightley]

13 hours ago, Normthebarman said:

Am I completely imagining Tony Blair saying sorry, then? I was sure he apologised for it.

He did

 

https://www.antislavery.org/tony-blair-apologies-britains-role-slave-trade-2/

[Greenbank2]

15 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I haven’t done anything to the world mate neither have you. I don’t like the notion that me or you should be sorry tbh, that stuff really winds me up. I’m neither proud nor ashamed of the British empire it’s nothing to do with me. 
But I can see the point of the black people here they’re walking past a statue of a man who traded in their ancestors blood and treated them worse than he probably treated his horses. Imagine a statue of Longshanks or Cromwell or something in Glasgow, you’d shed no tears if they were chucked in the Clyde. 
The statue for me should’ve been put in a museum and explained who he was and what him and others done. That’s just a bit respect surely? 

I like your suggestion.

 

Gotta say, I'm really struggling on forming an opinion about the whole BLM movement. I probably need my tin hat on, but it feels like a lot of people making a lot of noise about what they don't want. What does it mean and what is it they do want? John Oliver on his program last night, talking about the USA, at least tried not to sit on the fence. He said that in his opinion, what was required was a "de-fund the police" approach. One of the problems in America is that the police deal with everything - mental health issue - call the police. Social issue, call the police etc. The point was that with no funding for societal problems, all resources are directed to the police, who deal with them in a police fashion - as if everyone is a criminal. Solution, tear down the current policing model and replace it with social programs and a new style of policing.

 

On the tearing down of statues, I have long believed that the saying of history being written by the victors is far too true and highly prevalent in our culture. The type of capitalism pervasive in UK society for hundreds of years, has led to many kinds of slavery. But the narrative is of empire and success. One of the socialist literary doctrines "The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist" describes a type of domestic slavery and appalling social conditions that the general population - even skilled tradesmen lived before WW1. It wasn't Chattel Slavery, but wasn't domestic service a type of slavery? Does that mean we should tear down the statues of the great and good that were responsible for the enlightenment? And back to black slavery. It was wrong and absolutely appalling, but where is the ourtage at the fact that one-third of the west African population were already enslaved by the indigenous population prior to the rise in Atlantic slavery?

 

These bad things, and many more happened. Maybe the right thing to do is to get honest about history and promote the telling of bad and ugly along with the good. Maybe museum's are the right place.

[jack D and coke]

26 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

I like your suggestion.

 

Gotta say, I'm really struggling on forming an opinion about the whole BLM movement. I probably need my tin hat on, but it feels like a lot of people making a lot of noise about what they don't want. What does it mean and what is it they do want? John Oliver on his program last night, talking about the USA, at least tried not to sit on the fence. He said that in his opinion, what was required was a "de-fund the police" approach. One of the problems in America is that the police deal with everything - mental health issue - call the police. Social issue, call the police etc. The point was that with no funding for societal problems, all resources are directed to the police, who deal with them in a police fashion - as if everyone is a criminal. Solution, tear down the current policing model and replace it with social programs and a new style of policing.

 

On the tearing down of statues, I have long believed that the saying of history being written by the victors is far too true and highly prevalent in our culture. The type of capitalism pervasive in UK society for hundreds of years, has led to many kinds of slavery. But the narrative is of empire and success. One of the socialist literary doctrines "The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist" describes a type of domestic slavery and appalling social conditions that the general population - even skilled tradesmen lived before WW1. It wasn't Chattel Slavery, but wasn't domestic service a type of slavery? Does that mean we should tear down the statues of the great and good that were responsible for the enlightenment? And back to black slavery. It was wrong and absolutely appalling, but where is the ourtage at the fact that one-third of the west African population were already enslaved by the indigenous population prior to the rise in Atlantic slavery?

 

These bad things, and many more happened. Maybe the right thing to do is to get honest about history and promote the telling of bad and ugly along with the good. Maybe museum's are the right place.

You make some good points. I wasn’t aware about one third of their population already being enslaved but the Africans over there treat each other worse than anyone ever has. Also people like AJ are complete hypocrites, he loves to bang on about his native Nigeria well go over there and start having a pop at the way they treat gays and women instead of trying to get black people here to stop spending any money in white businesses you know make a difference on your spiritual continent. He’s really pissed me off i look forward to the next time he’s plonked on his arse. I hope a huge chunk of his white supporters stop buying his gear tbh the absolute arsehole. 
I’d also go further and stop naming things after the royals in this country that gets on my tits in this day and age. Queen Elizabeth this and the royal that. Britain just needs to stop doing that imo. It’s the 21st century ffs stop worshipping these people. 
Without that though the worshipping of them would diminish and we wouldn’t need them anymore. 
That would be a shame eh. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

The trouble is, nobody is squeaky clean.

 

Anthony Joshua fought in Saudi Arabia and did his bit for sports washing, purely for the coin. He doesn’t get to lecture any of us.