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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, Lord BJ said:


I don’t know and am not really sure🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Black people supporting black businesses isn’t a new concept. it’s basically support community message. 
 

It’s something we see from other groups of people a lot. ‘Buy British’ and was even campaign by indepedence supporters about supporting Scottish business and boycotting others 


I guess those supporting the view would argue its positive discrimination. I’m not sure the way to combat discrimination, is with discrimination no matter how much I may understand the rational 
 

I have said previously on this thread I’m not sure what BLM aims are it seems more an outpouring of anger than to actually addressing issues. 
 

Sadly I find myself agreeing with your last para. There is a very much a ‘not with us your against us mentality’ which I really don’t think is great for try to ensure equality and equal opportunities. It’s a incredibly complex subject which people seem intent to boil down to binary issue. 
 

As side note I note the Simpsons are going to stop having white actors voice characters of race. 

 

From the BLM UK facebook page

 

"we are guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white supremacy, patriarchy, and the state structures that disproportionately and systematically harm black people in Britain and around the world"

 

Abolishing the police is a specific aim but that seems to have been deleted recently. 

 

"Western" charities working oversees are considered "colonist"  (colonialist?). So we better change our shirt sponsor before football resumes.

 

Note the irony of multi-millionaire sportsmen and businessmen taking the knee and in other ways supporting dismantling capitalism.

 

American BLM doesn't go in so much for dismantling capitalism. Too un-American I guess, 

 

I doubt that more than 5% of protesters really share the BLM UK objectives to the extent they are aware of them . But the idea that the tearing down and defacing of statues and so on is a spontaneous reaction to the tragic but sadly all too common killing of a black man in  an American city is fanciful.

Edited by Francis Albert
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jack D and coke
2 hours ago, Libertarian said:

You are absolutely correct. I haven't got a racist bone in my body but BLM just fills me with despair as they represent identity politics on steroids. Judging people on their race is never a good idea. We are all human beings end of 

We’ve all got to listen to them peddle this divisional bullshit too. 
Or we’re the racists. 

:lol:
 

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Neil Dongcaster

Racism is a coloured canvas hiding the real problem of poverty.

 

Ensure people have opportunities and a basic standard of living, empower communities to clean themselves up through funding programmes and investment in infrastructure, treat drug abuse as a medical issue and lower education costs. Only then will the vast majority of problems disappear.

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The Mighty Thor
12 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

How about they start practising what they’re preaching instead? I’d absolutely love to see some prominent White sportsmen and pop stars etc do the same. 
There would be meltdown and well you know it. 
They are racists these BLM lot. They are making things worse. 
Still can’t believe the “this is a black business” signs in their windows. If that didn’t put in plain sight what was going on here nothing will. Outrageous. 
 

Don't misunderstand me, its not right but I'm not getting exercised about it. I just genuinely couldn't give a feck about the whole thing. 

 

I still am of the opinion that a lot of those in identity groups that demand 'equality' don't actually want to be equal. They want to be different or special and treated as such. 

 

 

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The Real Maroonblood
4 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

As much as "buy british" is, yes.

Exactly.

People should buy what suits their needs.

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1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Exactly.

People should buy what suits their needs.

But given the choice of say 3 items, at the same price and quality, why would you not "Buy British"?

Would you buy Polish eggs over British eggs or New Zealand lamb or Argentinan Beef over British produce, if for nothing more than the extra air miles I volved?

Buy British is nothing to do with race!

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jack D and coke
11 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Don't misunderstand me, its not right but I'm not getting exercised about it. I just genuinely couldn't give a feck about the whole thing. 

 

I still am of the opinion that a lot of those in identity groups that demand 'equality' don't actually want to be equal. They want to be different or special and treated as such. 

 

 

Im same I generally don’t care too much either about these things and just get on but it’s annoying me just how blatant this is becoming and the people too dumb to see it or the ones too afraid to call it out. 

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Francis Albert
36 minutes ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

Racism is a coloured canvas hiding the real problem of poverty.

 

Ensure people have opportunities and a basic standard of living, empower communities to clean themselves up through funding programmes and investment in infrastructure, treat drug abuse as a medical issue and lower education costs. Only then will the vast majority of problems disappear.

Coloured canvas?

Seriously I agree that poverty (and poverty of expectration) is a bigger issue than race. Systemic racism seems not to operate against Chinese, Indian and other ethnic minorities. In fact whites, particularly white boys do more badly in the education system than others.

And your solution is fine, except that while drug users should be treated as a medical, drug dealers should not. And funding programmes also need the state institutions and legal syatem BLM want to dismantle  to ensure funds are properly spent within the empowered communities.

Edited by Francis Albert
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Equality of outcome might be better if more black men didnt drop the ball when they got someone pregnant.

Same goes for most people regardless of skin colour.

Single parent hood is the biggest factor  determining outcome.

This is reflected in white communities also.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, jake said:

Equality of outcome might be better if more black men didnt drop the ball when they got someone pregnant.

Same goes for most people regardless of skin colour.

Single parent hood is the biggest factor  determining outcome.

This is reflected in white communities also.

 

 

How many prejudices can you get into one ill informed statement 😃

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14 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

How many prejudices can you get into one ill informed statement 😃

No prejudice involved.

 

Single parenthood means your more likely to do jail.

More likely to fail academically.

Etc .

I'm not basing that on prejudice .

And it's not based on skin colour but culture.

The figures back it up.

 

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Marty Byrde
49 minutes ago, jake said:

Equality of outcome might be better if more black men didnt drop the ball when they got someone pregnant.

Same goes for most people regardless of skin colour.

Single parent hood is the biggest factor  determining outcome.

This is reflected in white communities also.

 

 

 

Has BLM matter acknowledged any culpability for anything born from the community they apparently represent? I haven't seen that myself.

 

For instance what explanation do they have that two thirds of under 25s knife possession offenders in London are BAME? An explanation that isn't essentially it's all your fault. This figure is according to fact checking website fullfact.org.

 

People overall would be more receptive if their angle wasn't essentially white people are the devil and responsible for every calamity a person of colour experiences. A deeply repugnant stance to the vast majority of decent people in this country.

 

 

Edited by Marty Byrde
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5 minutes ago, jake said:

No prejudice involved.

 

Single parenthood means your more likely to do jail.

More likely to fail academically.

Etc .

I'm not basing that on prejudice .

And it's not based on skin colour but culture.

The figures back it up.

 

"Equality of outcome might be better if more black men didnt drop the ball when they got someone pregnant" Its difficult to imagine a more prejudice statement than this, out with the KKK of course. 

 

As for this one "Single parent hood is the biggest factor  determining outcome". This one is straight from the mouth of a 1980's Tory. Come on, its indefensible.

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3 minutes ago, Marty Byrde said:

 

Has BLM matter acknowledged any culpability for anyty born from the community they apparently represent? I haven't seen that myself.

 

For instance what explanation do they have that two thirds of under 25s knife possession offenders in London are BAME? This figure is according to fact checking website fullfact.org.

 

People overall would be more receptive if there angle wasn't essentially white people are the devil and responsible for every calamity a person of colour experiences. A deeply repugnant stance to the vast majority of decent people in this country.

 

 

 

But but... it's the white man's fault for selling them the knives and Chinese man's fault for making them. 

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3 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

"Equality of outcome might be better if more black men didnt drop the ball when they got someone pregnant" Its difficult to imagine a more prejudice statement than this, out with the KKK of course. 

 

As for this one "Single parent hood is the biggest factor  determining outcome". This one is straight from the mouth of a 1980's Tory. Come on, its indefensible.

Do you have any figures againt these points?

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1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

"Equality of outcome might be better if more black men didnt drop the ball when they got someone pregnant" Its difficult to imagine a more prejudice statement than this, out with the KKK of course. 

 

As for this one "Single parent hood is the biggest factor  determining outcome". This one is straight from the mouth of a 1980's Tory. Come on, its indefensible.

Uncomfortable as it might be for you both highlighted statements are true.

 

Areas with high single parents have higher crime.

Lower academic attainment

More poverty and poorer outcome in life.

 

Asian and Indian families have less single parenthood than whites.

This is reflected in educational attainment and criminality.

Its widely available to read.

How you fix that and policies to fix that should never be based on race.

Any political thought such as "white skin privilage" is dangerous imo.

 

 

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9 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m seeing all this “spend your money in black businesses” now carry on and I’m surely not the only one thinking this isnt right, this is proper, in your face, blatant racism! Surely?! How are they getting away with this??? :lol: Outrageous!? No??! Am I a white privileged racist?? Am I not “woke” Should a black person not employ me -and instead look to find a black person? Is this not what they’re going on about??? This is ok? Surely not?!!

If this is all about bringing us together they’re doing a ****ing good job of dividing us all. 
 

 

Spending in black businesses is a way to support the community. Further, black businesses are more likely to hire people from BAME backgrounds so again it’s supporting jobs. 

 

Don't really see what the issue is with it. 

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17 minutes ago, jake said:

Uncomfortable as it might be for you both highlighted statements are true.

 

Areas with high single parents have higher crime.

Lower academic attainment

More poverty and poorer outcome in life.

 

Asian and Indian families have less single parenthood than whites.

This is reflected in educational attainment and criminality.

Its widely available to read.

How you fix that and policies to fix that should never be based on race.

Any political thought such as "white skin privilage" is dangerous imo.

 

 

Where are these areas? Perhaps the heads of these households are in poverty, victims of domestic violence and denied access to jobs, decent housing and essential services, perhaps they are further disadvantaged because most of theM are women.

 

Most domestic violence in Scotland is perpetrated by Scottish men.

 

Most racist incidents in Scotland are perpetrated by Scottish men.

 

Most of the children excluded from Schools are Scottish Children.

 

Most people in Scottish prisons are Scottish people.

 

There is a way on interpreting statistics that presents the bigot with the opportunity to falsely justify their prejudiced beliefs. I expected better TBH.

 

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Marty Byrde
2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Where are these areas? Perhaps the heads of these households are in poverty, victims of domestic violence and denied access to jobs, decent housing and essential services, perhaps they are further disadvantaged because most of theM are women.

 

Most domestic violence in Scotland is perpetrated by Scottish men.

 

Most racist incidents in Scotland are perpetrated by Scottish men.

 

Most of the children excluded from Schools are Scottish Children.

 

Most people in Scottish prisons are Scottish people.

 

There is a way on interpreting statistics that presents the bigot with the opportunity to falsely justify their prejudiced beliefs. I expected better TBH.

 

 

In a country that at the last census in 2011 was 84% white Scottish, how are those statements going to be anything other?

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Francis Albert
26 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Where are these areas? Perhaps the heads of these households are in poverty, victims of domestic violence and denied access to jobs, decent housing and essential services, perhaps they are further disadvantaged because most of theM are women.

 

Most domestic violence in Scotland is perpetrated by Scottish men.

 

Most racist incidents in Scotland are perpetrated by Scottish men.

 

Most of the children excluded from Schools are Scottish Children.

 

Most people in Scottish prisons are Scottish people.

 

There is a way on interpreting statistics that presents the bigot with the opportunity to falsely justify their prejudiced beliefs. I expected better TBH.

 

As you demonstrate the presentation of statistics gives everyone, not just bigots, the opportunity to justify their beliefs. 

The issue of the impact of single parent families on the outcomes for children is undeniable. As is its disproportionate impact on black children, in the States at least. 

Literature often tell us more than bare statistics and the theme was common in twentieth century black American fiction and essays. And literature unlike statistics can examine the complexities. Black Americans men were (and are) often emasculated, fortunately now  figuratively rather than physically. Being unable to provide for and to protect your children from racism in a racist society made life intolerable for many black men and contributed to black men "dropping the ball" in Jake's unfortunate choice of phrase. The resulting lack of adult male models for many children contributed to ongoing issues for future generations. 

Now of course the breakdown of "traditional" family models means the very concept of "adult male models" (or adult female models for that matter) within the family unit is threatened... no doubt society will adapt and it may in time mean families and society and relationships are the better for it. 

But the issues are far more complex than "taking the knee" and the now apparently obligatory obeisance to BLM slogans and aims can possibly address.

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Marty Byrde
Just now, Francis Albert said:

As you demonstrate the presentation of statistics gives everyone, not just bigots, the opportunity to justify their beliefs. 

 

 

Glad I'm not the only one to notice the hypocrisy here 😂

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1 hour ago, Marty Byrde said:

 

In a country that at the last census in 2011 was 84% white Scottish, how are those statements going to be anything other?

Exactly

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3 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Exactly.

People should buy what suits their needs.

The market is free, so you can spend what you want where you want and why you want.

Boycotts of South Africa in the 70s and 80s eventually bore fruit.

People also boycott or chose to support companies for any number of reasons.

Fairtrade being a prime example of the free market being used to change things on a macro scale.

Facebook has this week been forced to change it's (lack of) policy on hate speech after lots of advertisers withdrew their support and crashed Facebook's share price by 7% in one day.

On a national scale, subsidies and tax breaks are used to encourage growth in certain sectors or to protect a certain sector.

On an international scale, sanctions and embargoes imposed on a nation are exactly the same thing just at a political level.

 

Money talks.

Edited by Cade
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36 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

As you demonstrate the presentation of statistics gives everyone, not just bigots, the opportunity to justify their beliefs. 

The issue of the impact of single parent families on the outcomes for children is undeniable. As is its disproportionate impact on black children, in the States at least. 

Literature often tell us more than bare statistics and the theme was common in twentieth century black American fiction and essays. And literature unlike statistics can examine the complexities. Black Americans men were (and are) often emasculated, fortunately now  figuratively rather than physically. Being unable to provide for and to protect your children from racism in a racist society made life intolerable for many black men and contributed to black men "dropping the ball" in Jake's unfortunate choice of phrase. The resulting lack of adult male models for many children contributed to ongoing issues for future generations. 

Now of course the breakdown of "traditional" family models means the very concept of "adult male models" (or adult female models for that matter) within the family unit is threatened... no doubt society will adapt and it may in time mean families and society and relationships are the better for it. 

But the issues are far more complex than "taking the knee" and the now apparently obligatory obeisance to BLM slogans and aims can possibly address.

Very good post FA, and something for us all to reflect on.

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The Real Maroonblood
3 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

But given the choice of say 3 items, at the same price and quality, why would you not "Buy British"?

Would you buy Polish eggs over British eggs or New Zealand lamb or Argentinan Beef over British produce, if for nothing more than the extra air miles I volved?

Buy British is nothing to do with race!

I know it’s nothing to do with race.

Personally I try and buy local prodice.

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jack D and coke
2 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Spending in black businesses is a way to support the community. Further, black businesses are more likely to hire people from BAME backgrounds so again it’s supporting jobs. 

 

Don't really see what the issue is with it. 

Ok. 
If I dont spend another penny in any business other than a white persons? 
I’ll be a racist?

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It's difficult trying to know the source of what you buy.

Meat may have a British label on it but that only means it was slaughtered and packaged in the UK, it does not guarantee that the animals were raised here.

Likewise with white goods, it may say "made in Britain" but it will only have been assembled here, from parts made around the world.

Being able to trace your goods back to original source should be much easier than it is.

Organic foods have made themselves easily traceable as part of their Organic certification.

If only everything was as easy.

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Marty Byrde

I don't care about the race of who make or sell the goods I buy. I'd say anyone who does to the detriment of another is a massive racist. You can insert the colours that suit your own racism into that.

Edited by Marty Byrde
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Can see a makeshift BLM picket outside Tannadice when Big Malky pulls up.  You know how sensitive these Hibs types are. 

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Enzo Chiefo

And still we have the ridiculous sight of professional footballers, funded by owners from far less tolerant countries than the UK, going down on one knee before the game? We are 3 games into the resumed season now. When is this nonsense going to end?

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Are you guys aware that the organization is self-proclaimed Marxist and one that wants to see the end of capitalism and our civilisation?

 

Whilst it is good to protest against racism, this organisation is vile.

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I'm watching the Man City Newcastle game and the have BLM on their shirts and literally all take the knee before the whistle. there are now two whistles.

 

The ignorance about this organisation is sickening.

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"We are unapologetically Black in our positioning.... We see ourselves as part of the global Black family... We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure..." Source: https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/12/make-no-mistake-blm-radical-neo-marxist-political-movement/

 

Vile movement that creates segregation. No wonder they see themselves as black and not individuals - they self segregate and imagine telling your child that they aren't 'Jane' or 'Alistair' but that they are 'black' or 'white'. Disgusting.

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Nucky Thompson
26 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And still we have the ridiculous sight of professional footballers, funded by owners from far less tolerant countries than the UK, going down on one knee before the game? We are 3 games into the resumed season now. When is this nonsense going to end?

That's what I was thinking earlier. 

Celtic fans will insist it continues until August seeing as they are the heroes of any political cause 

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10 hours ago, GlasgoJambo said:

 

Similarly, free speech advocacy makes for unusual bedfellows. 

 

It does. I referred to this book extensively in my master's dissertation on the topic of free speech in the US and UK. It was written by a Jewish Holocaust survivor who headed up the ACLU in the 1970s when literal Nazis wanted to demonstrate in a Chicago suburb. When they were denied, he and another Jewish lawyer took their case and argued their right to demonstrate under the First Amendment.

 

 

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7 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Where are these areas? Perhaps the heads of these households are in poverty, victims of domestic violence and denied access to jobs, decent housing and essential services, perhaps they are further disadvantaged because most of theM are women.

 

Most domestic violence in Scotland is perpetrated by Scottish men.

 

Most racist incidents in Scotland are perpetrated by Scottish men.

 

Most of the children excluded from Schools are Scottish Children.

 

Most people in Scottish prisons are Scottish people.

 

There is a way on interpreting statistics that presents the bigot with the opportunity to falsely justify their prejudiced beliefs. I expected better TBH.

 

Falsely justify my prejudice beliefs.

 

 

I honestly thought the points I made couldnt have been less bigoted or racist.

I think I even qualified it.

Not that I give a shit.

Unfekinreal 

 

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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, jake said:

Falsely justify my prejudice beliefs.

 

 

I honestly thought the points I made couldnt have been less bigoted or racist.

I think I even qualified it.

Not that I give a shit.

Unfekinreal 

 

You should give a shit. The points you made were not remotely bigoted or racist.

 

 

 

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Mac_fae_Gillie
6 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And still we have the ridiculous sight of professional footballers, funded by owners from far less tolerant countries than the UK, going down on one knee before the game? We are 3 games into the resumed season now. When is this nonsense going to end?

Daft thing is the going down on the knee is done during the playing of the USA anthem as a sign of disrespect for a country not treating blacks equal, unsure why its done in UK as no anthem played only done in support of others but as you say far less tolerant nations exist lot of the African players in the EPL come from them yet they sit silent on this.

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Francis Albert
5 hours ago, JJ93 said:

Are you guys aware that the organization is self-proclaimed Marxist and one that wants to see the end of capitalism and our civilisation?

 

Whilst it is good to protest against racism, this organisation is vile.

It is a coalition of lots of "organisations" and hangers-on. . A lot of what its supporters  says is legitimate. But it is partly Marxist, partly communist, partly anti--capitalist, partly anarchist. A grand coalition of the anti-establishment.

What I find odd is that there has been no Panorama or other investigative reporting into what exactly BLM is. The BBC and most of the mainstream media, even in fact the more right wing media, have mostly let BLM run free as if they were a spontaneous response to a tragic killing in Minneapolis.

While collecting over a million pounds from donations in the UK it avoids becoming a charitable institution because that would mean complying with rules about how charities operate. But then they are opposed to rules.

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3 hours ago, jake said:

Falsely justify my prejudice beliefs.

 

 

I honestly thought the points I made couldnt have been less bigoted or racist.

I think I even qualified it.

Not that I give a shit.

Unfekinreal 

 

I see it from a different view point Jake but single parents being a problem is fairly dated territory and if you start relating that to race and inequality people might think you're a racist.

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Just the public, gathered together in a public park, listening to violins being played in memory of a life cruelly taken.

As one commenter said, "The police are in riot gear to stop people from playing and listening to VIOLINS in memory of a departed friend.....America is officially dying."

 

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1277273696365879296

 

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Anyone see that story of two met cops being suspended for taking selfies with the bodies of two black sisters that had been murdered?

 

Jesus ****ing wept like. 

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The Real Maroonblood
23 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Anyone see that story of two met cops being suspended for taking selfies with the bodies of two black sisters that had been murdered?

 

Jesus ****ing wept like. 

Yes.

Unbelievable. No.

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19 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

I see it from a different view point Jake but single parents being a problem is fairly dated territory and if you start relating that to race and inequality people might think you're a racist.

I qualified it with comparisons to white communities.

I also noted that races apart from whites faired  better than both whites and blacks.

Far from being outdated and some auld radge bigoted dimwit I am very conscious of things.

I just dont buy the answers that you all seem to despite the evidence

19 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

You should give a shit. The points you made were not remotely bigoted or racist.

 

 

 

I dont FA.

Because I know I'm not.

 

Edited by jake
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1 hour ago, jake said:

I qualified it with comparisons to white communities.

I also noted that races apart from whites faired  better than both whites and blacks.

Far from being outdated and some auld radge bigoted dimwit I am very conscious of things.

I just dont buy the answers that you all seem to despite the evidence

I dont FA.

Because I know I'm not.

 

I'm sure you're not a bigoted dimwit but the single parent thing seemed a bit 1990's to me. Probably my interpretation that was lacking. I just think there are many factors involved. Keep challenging Jake.

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2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I'm sure you're not a bigoted dimwit but the single parent thing seemed a bit 1990's to me. Probably my interpretation that was lacking. I just think there are many factors involved. Keep challenging Jake.

Ach man I am half daft.

I really am.

We all want the same .

 

 

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On 28/06/2020 at 16:57, SE16 3LN said:

I see it from a different view point Jake but single parents being a problem is fairly dated territory and if you start relating that to race and inequality people might think you're a racist.

 

image.png.eb35bea79796bd57021eec0472550227.png

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