Riots in Minneapolis

[XB52]

13 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Nah, it's because your a condescending pedantic pain in the arse. 

Giving you facts to counter your opinion is being pedantic?? 

[Ray Gin]

6 minutes ago, Whatever said:

 

 

Wtf!! 

[Ibrahim Tall]

11 minutes ago, Whatever said:

 

Wtf is wrong with that country.

[Beni]

Trump will be absolutely loving this chaos, he's been looking to foment a crisis to help his re-election campaign, and this has fallen into his lap with no effort on his part.

[The Internet]

 

[pablo]

18 hours ago, Cruyff said:

It's really sad. America is a huge place and with many great, caring and lovely people but when the Police are killing black people at a higher rate than the KKK, there's clearly something wrong in their society. 

 

Then seeing all those people die due to Covid buried in mass graves in New York because they were probably too poor to afford Health Care. 

 

This is meant to be the free-est, most developed, secular and advanced Country on the planet as well. Maybe they are technology wise but in values and in other ways, they are lagging behind most of the developed world. 

 

I can totally understand why so many young Americans are leaving to live in Europe and simply never want to go back. 

 

Secular? Have you ever been? 

[pablo]

16 minutes ago, Whatever said:

 

 

What the actual ****?

[Cade]

22 hours ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

 

That footage is from Lebanon back in december last year.  

 

Always check your sources.

[The Internet]

Seen a longer video of the story chuck berrys hairline posted, won't post it as it is pretty brutal but it starts with guy chasing folk with the sword so I don't know what happened before all that. Obviously he gets roughed up pretty bad and opportunists were piling in long after he was on the deck, if he didn't or doesn't die I'm quite surprised. State of his arm 

 

[Irufushi]

1 hour ago, Whatever said:

 

wow, what a country. 

[Beni]

45 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Secular? Have you ever been? 

 

The constitution mandates the separation of church and state.

Unlike the UK, where Lizzie manages to multitask as head of state and the church of England. And 26 bishops sit in the house of Lords, although some people bash them for that.

[pablo]

Just now, fancy a brew said:

 

The constitution mandates the separation of church and state.

Unlike the UK, where Lizzie manages to multitask as head of state and the church of England. And 26 bishops sit in the house of Lords, although some people bash them for that.

 

Ken. I realised after I'd posted that Cruyff had said "meant to be". Apologies @Cruyff. I jumped in with the reality of the situation. Never seen so many churches, and very rich ones too by the look of some of the buildings. 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Whatever said:

 

Would always mistrust a source begging to "go viral".

[Greedy Jambo]

https://m.worldstarhiphop.com/android/video.php?v=wshh2V1qPxpQbb833Lao

 

[SE16 3LN]

Long time since I've been involved in a riot.

 

The USA has all the conditions for revolution but all they'll get is further state clampdown on civil liberties and a Trump election surge.

[indianajones]

They cant even protest properly. 

 

Lost country. 

[CJGJ]

I accept that there should/can be a protest but the protests are going too far.....they could make a point without the violence

 

Many of those 'protesting' are not doing so to make a point about the incident and when/if another person dies or is badly injured due to the protests I would have to say they are part of it.

The fear in being able to give an opinion even though it is a legitimate one also makes people frustrated.

 

There are faults on both 'sides' but accepting that seems to be an issue for some and we have seen that in our own country in the past.

 

If you think looting, attacks, burning stores and businesses is somehow right and can be justified then you are wrong and dilutes the issue they are supposed to be protesting about

[OTT]

Their police look more stormtrooper than police.

 

Couldn't pay me to go to that shithole of a country. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by OTT

[Taffin]

There's been peaceful protests for years and it hasn't stopped the issues. Once diplomacy fails often all that is left is violence, sadly. To put it crudely in another way, would the Nazi's have stopped if we'd peacefully protested against their actions? 

 

It's all terribly sad and depressing.

[William H. Bonney]

They might as well just have an annual purge.

[Shanks]

No excuse for looting shops, ****ing scumbags.

 

when filth start doing that kind of thing police have to become more heavy handed to restore order unfortunately.

 

Trash country. 

[Lovecraft]

They're all ****ed now

 

 

[redjambo]

5 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Secular? Have you ever been? 

 

Secularism as it relates to countries is a tough one because although it is usually taken to mean how much separation there exists between state and religion/religious institutions, some people take it to mean how much irreligion there is in the state's population. And then of course there is a difference between irreligion and atheism.

 

The latter is easier to determine, however. An Independent article (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/atheists-countries-list-six-world-most-convinced-a6946291.html) placed China top, followed by Japan, Czechia, France, Australia and then Iceland.

 

Regarding the former, many countries claim to be secular. I personally would say that China must be up there with a shout for number one spot. However, despite the constitution, I would say that anomalies like the current pledge of allegiance, "In God We Trust" on its coinage, the Presidential oath, Congressional prayers, and prayers before local government meetings (backed by the Supreme Court in 2014 - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-prayer/u-s-supreme-court-backs-prayer-before-government-meetings-idUSBREA440FO20140505) mean that the USA cannot in all good faith claim to be truly secular.

 

If the filter has failed again and Cruyff is reading this, my apologies for once again being a condescending pedantic pain in the arse.  

Edited May 31, 2020 by redjambo

[The Internet]

This lot love threatening to gun down their citizens. 

[annushorribilis III]

29 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

This lot love threatening to gun down their citizens. 

A guy was interviewed on TV and said he was "beat up"  by two "black African Americans" and then had his car wrecked.

 

Watch this clip - the same , guy who appears with the bow & arrow and who gets a kicking from a bunch of white kids. 

 

[redjambo]

Michigan sheriff walks with protestors. He kind of goes over the top a bit, but it's what I would call good policing.

 

 

[Sharpie]

If I may be so bold I honestly think there is some misunderstanding about what is going on here. On Monday  man was brutally murdered by a Minneapolis police officer while three others watched and done nothing. Murder and aiding and abetting same at least. This was followed by primarily black members of the population, demonstrating justified and completely  understandable. As happens and should have been known to the authorities these opportunities are not missed by those who would use the opportunity to satisfy their own nefarious activities. 

 

The situation has now encompassed the whole country, I watched a lot of the Los Angeles coverage yesterday, it was a microcosm of the whole situation.  Demonstrators were advised to clear certain intersections one where a farmers market was taking place. Innocent citizens wanted to use this facility a relief from self isolation and Coda restrictions this was not permitted by the crowds. The police parked vehicles, in an effort to stop access and blockage of the intersection, the vehicle were jumped on set on fire and I would estimate in this small corner of the Country  thousand s of dollars of damage was done. One scene showed an elderly black gentleman crying and asking why they burned down his hard worked for business, he pointed out he was black like them raised in the ghettos, and they were punishing him, I also ask why.

 

There was film of  white youths teenagers with their shirts off on their phone waving  and dancing to whomever they were calling they were just there to have a good time. There was film of one what looked like a fairly high class store where black and white members of the crowd but with no interest in racial or other  inequality, motivated only by the greed of going into a breached store and carrying out as much as they could hold. One idiot summed up the whole mentality for me, masked ,hooded, arms full of loot he jumped into the waiting escape vehicle, which was being televised with the identifying license number prominently displayed.

 

This whole fiasco no longer supports the dead man its an opportunity do do what you want, its an insult to the dead , by all means show your feelings, but that is not destroying tax payer funded police vehicles, having the police fire rubber bullets as in LA at demonstrators and should not be used to advance political views. Its wrong and demeaning

[Ritchez]

1 hour ago, parker said:

Hope Scotland keeps Justin Z and deports weirdo racists like Ritchez and chuck berrys hairline. 

 

 

 

I'm really keen to understand where I've been racist. It's astounding that the term racist can be chucked about like this.

 

Is it the part where I posted videos of Antifa nutjobs burning down buildings and looting shops?

 

I'll repeat, it is infact possible to criticise both police brutality and mob violence.

 

More shocking footage coming to light - this dude was knocked out because he tried to help someone else who was getting beat up:

 

 

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, parker said:

Hope Scotland keeps Justin Z and deports weirdo racists like Ritchez and chuck berrys hairline. 

 

[Justin Z]

40 minutes ago, redjambo said:

Michigan sheriff walks with protestors. He kind of goes over the top a bit, but it's what I would call good policing.

 

 

 

YES! I saw where this happened in several cities--it's awesome. This is the first step and yet so many police officers out there instead have been throwing an elderly man with a cane to the ground, macing children, attacking and looting water / supplies from peaceful protestors, etc. Almost universally, these protests and marches have started out peacefully with no trouble, and it's been police who have made them into riots by doing these things, by trying to run over people as in New York, and so on.

 

But this right here? THIS IS IT. Everywhere this was done, the cities are in such better shape, the communities are in much better shape, maybe even starting the healing process. But we are starting to understand why it is that not all police departments do this: Because so many of them are militarised, view civilians not as to be protected and served but as their enemy, and, perhaps most of all, they are institutionally racist--so why the hell would they?

[Justin Z]

7 minutes ago, Ritchez said:

 

 

 

I'm really keen to understand where I've been racist. It's astounding that the term racist can be chucked about like this.

 

Is it the part where I posted videos of Antifa nutjobs burning down buildings and looting shops?

 

 

I'm gonna go with you keep signal boosting racists and fascists. Add Andy Ngo to your list.  Maybe if you really aren't an out-and-out racist, but rather just this clueless about America and why it is this way, you should sit down, shut up and learn something. Or, keep doubling down and digging a bigger hole--choice is yours.   

[Ritchez]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

I'm gonna go with you keep signal boosting racists and fascists. Add Andy Ngo to your list.  Maybe if you really aren't an out-and-out racist, but rather just this clueless about America and why it is this way, you should sit down, shut up and learn something. Or, keep doubling down and digging a bigger hole--choice is yours.   

 

Again Justin, I genuinely couldn't care less who posts these videos. It's the content I care about.

 

Have a watch of the video - they aren't undercover white supremacists posing as Antifa protestors, as you alluded to earlier. They are simply regular protestors, beating on innocent people and looting shops.

 

Do you consider that to be acceptable behaviour? Why do you keep legitimising this?

[scottishguy]

Big protest in London too according to sky news and twitter.

[Captain Sausage]

13 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I'm gonna go with you keep signal boosting racists and fascists. Add Andy Ngo to your list.  Maybe if you really aren't an out-and-out racist, but rather just this clueless about America and why it is this way, you should sit down, shut up and learn something. Or, keep doubling down and digging a bigger hole--choice is yours.   

Some of the quoted sources are pretty reprehensible people, but you’ve only played the man, not the topic. 
 

The posters premise of it being possible to condemn the actions of the police officers involved in the death of George Floyd and at the same time condemn the wanton acts of vandalism, theft and assault being carried out in the name of Floyd seems pretty valid to me. 
 

How any right minded individual can sit back and state that the actions of these mobs is anything less than disgraceful is beyond me. 
 

Police murder of civilian = bad

Systemic protection of police = bad

Vandalism, rioting, looting, assault = bad

 

Racism is so deeply ingrained in American society. It’s abysmal. But a lot of the videos show the blatant racist attitudes of African Americans towards white people and it’s brushed off as ‘not racism’. It’s literally the definition of racism. ALL racism is bad. 

[Taffin]

 

 

"Look, yeh sure, police brutality and murder against ethnic minorities is bad, but stealing TV's is also bad so you know let's remember to focus on that too"

 

🤮

[Ritchez]

 

2 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Some of the quoted sources are pretty reprehensible people, but you’ve only played the man, not the topic. 
 

The posters premise of it being possible to condemn the actions of the police officers involved in the death of George Floyd and at the same time condemn the wanton acts of vandalism, theft and assault being carried out in the name of Floyd seems pretty valid to me. 
 

How any right minded individual can sit back and state that the actions of these mobs is anything less than disgraceful is beyond me. 
 

Police murder of civilian = bad

Systemic protection of police = bad

Vandalism, rioting, looting, assault = bad

 

Racism is so deeply ingrained in American society. It’s abysmal. But a lot of the videos show the blatant racist attitudes of African Americans towards white people and it’s brushed off as ‘not racism’. It’s literally the definition of racism. ALL racism is bad. 

 

 

Spot on.

 

Both of these statements are true:

 

- It's unacceptable and downright disgusting for a racist police officer to murder an innocent black man. He should be sent to prison for the rest of his life. Much of the behaviour of the police in the aftermath has also been shocking and completely unnecessary.

 

- The behaviour of many of the protestors has been counterintuitive and completely unacceptable - burning down innocent businesses and looting shops is utterly stupid. Attacking people to the point where they coukd easily be killed is abhorrent.

 

Calling someone a racist for pointing out the shocking behaviour of some of the protestors ends up deligitimizing the actual racists, like the police officer who started all this.

[Ritchez]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

"Look, yeh sure, police brutality and murder against ethnic minorities is bad, but stealing TV's is also bad so you know let's remember to focus on that too"

 

🤮

 

Burning business to the ground (from small liquor stores to big businesses).

 

Attacking people to the point where they could easily die. 

 

Causing untold levels of damage. 

 

All widespread across the country.

 

Call me crazy but yes, I do infact think we should focus on that. We should also focus on the issue of police brutality and ensure that the racist police officer who started all this is locked up for the rest of his life.

[EH11_2NL]

What an absolute shitshow of a country with a lunatic for a 'leader'. Expect a few dead by the end of the week. This isn't stopping any time soon.

[Cade]

It's not a zero sum game.  

Institutionalised racism in the USA is very very real and ingrained in the very soul of of the nation.

It's a serious issue that continues to both claim lives and deny upwards mobility for a huge swathe of society.

 

It's also disgusting that people instantly turn to rioting and looting whenever given half a chance.

 

Then the authorities manage to make things worse with their over the top response, as if putting down a slave revolt (and I choose these words carefully to fully reflect the attitude of some Governors))

 

Everybody is to blame and the end result is that the radical right that actually run the place will point to the riots as an excuse for not changing anything.

Classic victim blaming.

 

The rioters are being totally counter productive to their cause but are too thick to realise it.

 

[Justin Z]

13 minutes ago, Ritchez said:

Again Justin, I genuinely couldn't care less who posts these videos.

 

Well you need to. You need to stop being intellectually lazy and question the motives behind who posts these, who signal boosts them, and why. What narrative are they trying to construct through their selective choices? I just watched a little girl, 8 years old at most, screaming and panicking because she'd been maced by a ****ing police officer. You want to justify that, in context? Even if a million buildings had burned across the country? I didn't think so.

 

14 minutes ago, Ritchez said:

Have a watch of the video - they aren't undercover white supremacists posing as Antifa protestors, as you alluded to earlier. They are simply regular protestors, beating on innocent people and looting shops.

 

Do you consider that to be acceptable behaviour? Why do you keep legitimising this?

 

I know it's easier to argue by constructing strawmen and beating the stuffing out of them, than it is to actually address the thoughts and arguments of people across from you, but we're already on this intellectual laziness theme, so again, stop doing it.

 

First, I'd like you to support your claim that "they are simply regular protesters". Are they? How do you know? You can just "tell"? Well since you've posted an Andy Ngo video, his intent is to get you to think that. That this is just how most/all Black people are, how most/all leftists and anti-Trump people are. So again: Why are you signal boosting that?

Likewise, that hillbilly ***** in this thread claiming a bunch of Black people attacked him just for being there in his car when in fact he was out of his car, aiming a ****ing bow at people, and a bunch of white people kicked the shit out of him.

 

Second, staying with our theme of context, I don't think property damage in a vacuum is legitimate or acceptable. But I'm also a sociologist by training. I want to understand why this is happening on a group level. Is it a response to centuries of structural racism? (yes) Is it class warfare? (yes) Are there individuals amongst a larger, peaceful group, acting especially out of order? (yes) Are these individuals in some cases, radical mostly white leftists, acting out their commie fantasies and making this about them instead of about George Floyd and Black people in America? (yes) Regardless, doing as you're doing pointing at any individual video or videos and making a sweeping generalisation like "regular protesters" when you don't know, and can't know, is wrong. It's doubly wrong when you're taking the cues of racists, fascists and MAGAs.

 

Simplifying this extremely complex, decades-or-centuries-in-the-making shit down to "hur dur why do you keep legitimising crime" is useless, and I'm not going to waste any more energy on people who don't actually want to understand.

[Justin Z]

Just now, Cade said:

It's not a zero sum game.  

Institutionalised racism in the USA is very very real and ingrained in the very soul of of the nation.

It's a serious issue that continues to both claim lives and deny upwards mobility for a huge swathe of society.

 

Exactly.

 

@Captain Sausage You lived in the States long enough to have directly witnessed the difference between racial attitudes/racism in the sense of between individuals, and racism in the structural, institutional sense.

 

Not a zero sum game and not of equal impact, right?

 

People are going to act the way they are which means some of them are going to be scumbags on the scale. This is hardly earth shattering. But when we see, in city after city, police actions, including undercover cops posing as protesters, dialling up the heat of these protests, so to speak, that is different. That is the structural and institutional aspect.

 

All this is happening now like this because for decades we haven't put in the active work to address it. All of this could have been avoided. Following the Watts riots 55 years ago the McCone Commission was created to investigate them. Quoting Wikipedia, "The McCone Commission identified the root causes of the riots to be high unemployment, poor schools, and related inferior living conditions that were endured by African Americans in Watts." Sound familiar?!

 

"Recommendations for addressing these problems included 'emergency literacy and preschool programs, improved police-community ties, increased low-income housing, more job-training projects, upgraded health-care services, more efficient public transportation, and many more.' Most of these recommendations were never implemented."

 

Most were never implemented. Nor has anything like them been implemented nationwide. And here we are.

[Taffin]

29 minutes ago, Ritchez said:

 

Burning business to the ground (from small liquor stores to big businesses).

 

Attacking people to the point where they could easily die. 

 

Causing untold levels of damage. 

 

All widespread across the country.

 

Call me crazy but yes, I do infact think we should focus on that. We should also focus on the issue of police brutality and ensure that the racist police officer who started all this is locked up for the rest of his life.

 

I wouldn't call you crazy.

 

Those things are all unacceptable, especially when viewed in isolation and harms their 'cause' but right now we need to focus on what triggered it, why people feel this way and try to make changes to avoid this happening again. Focussing instead on the byproduct just deflects away from the real issues and to me feels like whataboutery. There is a time and a place to condemn these actions we are seeing but rushing to those ahead of the real issue makes me uneasy and suspicious of people's motives for doing so...we know looting and wanton destruction is bad, that's why we have laws against it and law enforcement to prevent it; it's a much bigger issue when those very law enforcers are killing people because of their skin colour.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Taffin

[Captain Sausage]

3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Exactly.

 

@Captain Sausage You lived in the States long enough to have directly witnessed the difference between racial attitudes/racism in the sense of between individuals, and racism in the structural, institutional sense.

 

Not a zero sum game and not of equal impact, right?

 

People are going to act the way they are which means some of them are going to be scumbags on the scale. This is hardly earth shattering. But when we see, in city after city, police actions, including undercover cops posing as protesters, dialling up the heat of these protests, so to speak, that is different. That is the structural and institutional aspect.

 

All this is happening now like this because for decades we haven't put in the active work to address it. All of this could have been avoided. Following the Watts riots 55 years ago the McCone Commission was created to investigate them. Quoting Wikipedia, "The McCone Commission identified the root causes of the riots to be high unemployment, poor schools, and related inferior living conditions that were endured by African Americans in Watts." Sound familiar?!

 

"Recommendations for addressing these problems included 'emergency literacy and preschool programs, improved police-community ties, increased low-income housing, more job-training projects, upgraded health-care services, more efficient public transportation, and many more.' Most of these recommendations were never implemented."

 

Most were never implemented. Nor has anything like them been implemented nationwide. And here we are.

Totally agree mate (have we ever agreed before?!  )

 

I certainly don’t have the answers, but the behaviour of these police officers is utterly reprehensible, as has been the cover up (not for the first time). 
 

When I was in the US, as a foreign national, the contempt with which I was treated on several occasions was incredible. There is a real attitude problem with those in authority in the US - a lot of them are just pricks. I saw a friend get detained and threatened with deportation because he swore at a police officer who threw him up against a wall for the crime of ‘sounding Russian’ (he was German...)

 

What frustrates me is the ability of so many to push the victim button of an entire race to justify these bellends out trashing stores, beating the shit out of the police and unarmed civilians alike, all in the name of a poor ******* who was murdered by the police. 
 

Race as a topic is so much more prevalent in the US than here. 

[Justin Z]

Spot on, @Taffin.

 

Video of cop kneeling on Black man, suffocating and murdering him, while three others watch: "Just a few bad apples."

 

Video of people rioting and looting: "Normal protesters. This is what they do. Savages."

 

Video of entire organised Minneapolis militarised police force attacking people on their home properties, among scores of other examples: NOT "Normal cops. This is what they do. Savages."

 

This is a problem.

 

 

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1266390938731020293

 

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Captain Sausage said:

Totally agree mate (have we ever agreed before?!  )

 

 More than perhaps it might seem, I'd wager!

 

1 minute ago, Captain Sausage said:

When I was in the US, as a foreign national, the contempt with which I was treated on several occasions was incredible. There is a real attitude problem with those in authority in the US - a lot of them are just pricks. I saw a friend get detained and threatened with deportation because he swore at a police officer who threw him up against a wall for the crime of ‘sounding Russian’ (he was German...)

 

This is the kind of shit that makes my blood boil and fills me with shame at my nationality. We are a nation of authority worshippers who call ourselves "free" and pretend we care about things like liberty and justice. It's disgusting.

 

2 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

What frustrates me is the ability of so many to push the victim button of an entire race to justify these bellends out trashing stores, beating the shit out of the police and unarmed civilians alike, all in the name of a poor ******* who was murdered by the police. 

 

There will be those that do that, of course. But what I've seen from basically everyone on the left I know watching--and participating in--this, is that's not what they're doing.

 

In my view, it's not worth it to give any air to anyone pushing that dishonesty, in exactly the same way it's not justified to give air to the likes of Posobiec and Ngo and the fake narratives they're trying to craft and the blame they're wrongly trying to apportion.

 

Likewise, is there a fair bit of "unintentional intentional misunderstanding" going on in this thread? I think so. I'll keep calling it out, and if I'm going to be unintentionally intentionally misunderstood as justifying any particular act of violence or vandalism in so doing, I'm fine with that.

[annushorribilis III]

And now  cheese cake factories are being looted (need audio on).

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, Ritchez said:

 

 

 

Spot on.

 

Both of these statements are true:

 

- It's unacceptable and downright disgusting for a racist police officer to murder an innocent black man. He should be sent to prison for the rest of his life. Much of the behaviour of the police in the aftermath has also been shocking and completely unnecessary.

 

- The behaviour of many of the protestors has been counterintuitive and completely unacceptable - burning down innocent businesses and looting shops is utterly stupid. Attacking people to the point where they coukd easily be killed is abhorrent.

 

Calling someone a racist for pointing out the shocking behaviour of some of the protestors ends up deligitimizing the actual racists, like the police officer who started all this.

Tge police acted worse. And that is not a reason to post far right stuff.

[Sharpie]

2 hours ago, Ritchez said:

 

 

 

Spot on.

 

Both of these statements are true:

 

- It's unacceptable and downright disgusting for a racist police officer to murder an innocent black man. He should be sent to prison for the rest of his life. Much of the behaviour of the police in the aftermath has also been shocking and completely unnecessary.

 

- The behaviour of many of the protestors has been counterintuitive and completely unacceptable - burning down innocent businesses and looting shops is utterly stupid. Attacking people to the point where they coukd easily be killed is abhorrent.

 

Calling someone a racist for pointing out the shocking behaviour of some of the protestors ends up deligitimizing the actual racists, like the police officer who started all this.

 

Don't disagree with what you say would have just enlarged the one comment to murder any innocent person.

[Irufushi]

2 hours ago, scottishguy said:

Big protest in London too according to sky news and twitter.

Attention seekers. 

[The Internet]

London trying to be relevant

 

Trump designating antifa as a terrorist organisation.