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complete control

with city doing the majority of attacking in their games ive no seen anything in the young mans play to think he would get a game doon there. 

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Debut 4
Just now, complete control said:

with city doing the majority of attacking in their games ive no seen anything in the young mans play to think he would get a game doon there. 

Do you really think City would view him as an immediate first team start?   

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complete control
7 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Do you really think City would view him as an immediate first team start?   

I will be stunned if he ever got a 1st team game in the premiership for them. 

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upgotheheads

I'm guessing that the up-front fee won't be great but our hopes will lie in sell-on.

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RustyRightPeg
11 hours ago, OTT said:

 

This is meant to be changing actually since you mentioned it. 

 

FIFA are stepping in to curb the hoarding of players which seems to be happening (Hector at Chelsea being one of the worst examples of this), FIFA are essentially as of 2021 allowing only 8 players to out on loan over the age of 22 and then 6 in 2022/23

 

It may not necessarily help distribute young talent better, but will force them to make tough decisions when players are getting into that territory. One video quoted a point in time where Atalanta had over 150 players out on loan. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/atalanta-bergamo/leihspieler/verein/800 Current is quite a lot too. 

 

Obviously Red Bull and City own multiple clubs so player hoarding can still occur, but this should force enough of a change for there to be a downstream impact for clubs like us ideally. 

 

https://www.otbsports.com/sport/fifa-curb-player-hoarding-limiting-loan-deals-908284

https://royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/2020/3/4/21157356/new-fifa-rules-regulations-loan-players-premier-league-chelsea-man-city-everton-brands-ancelotti

 

One of my biggest complaints is young Scottish lads buggering off down south at the first opportunity and sitting in the reserves at a big club till they are 'past it' in a competitive sense. The worst example of this I can think of is Islam Feruz. So much wasted talent. Remember seeing him at a youth international game I went along to at Easter Road and he was looking pretty decent. Instead of trying to challenge himself he's taken easy street and is pretty much done with football at 24. Adam King too, Swansea was a waste of his time and he's now 24 with barely more experience than Cochrane.... A lot of these lads have no business being at top clubs and are turfed out at their weakest instead of when it becomes clear they aren't making it at that level. Feruz being binned from Chelsea 2 years before he was instead of being given a new contract maybe gives him the shock he needs to kick on and find that hunger to succeed. 

 

I'd like to see FIFA make it 21 or even 20 instead. It would seriously put pressure on big clubs to let the horde of players they're never using go out and forge a career at the right level. 

 

On Hickey, a loan back is good. Gives us a year of breathing room to figure out what we're doing. Plus its not Celtic so happy enough with that. 

 

 

Good post. Was aware that changes were being made but wasn't sure how quickly they were coming into effect.

 

It really is a case of teams stocking up on the "best talent" to stop them going elsewhere. Chelsea for example seem to generally get the first pick of the best talent in London (probably due to the ludicrous money they offer youngsters) and it's proven by how many times they've won the youth league / cups. What this does though is it can potentially restrict the players to only youth football which can potentially stint their growth unless they're punted out on loan somewhere. 

 

I read the other day that a Chelsea player Van Ginkel, now 27 and has been at the club since 2011/12 I think. Has not played a first team game for them in almost that length of time and has been on loan 7 or 8 times. What have they done? They've given him a new deal. That is an immense waste of a player.

 

If you were to be brave and reject Chelsea for another London club i.e. Fulham, Palace or Arsenal, there's a clearer path into the first team, using Sessegnon for example with Fulham before he was sold to Spurs, Wan Bissaka now at Utd and the likes of Joe Willock and Bukayo Saka for Arsenal.

 

Anyway I'm off topic but I personally can't see a clear path for Hickey at City and could see him leaving as a 22/23 year old player with 4 years worth of English youth contact type money in his pocket. I hope I'm wrong however.

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Anything2

It's really difficult to predict what a young player's potential ceiling is. The only player I can think of who looked so comfortable in the first team at such a young age was Naysmith who went on to play Premier League and international all be it not for a team of Man City's current standing, and Hickey was actually younger when he made his debut so that's probably the best indicator that we have from a Hearts perspective. Would other star players have made as much of a contribution as Hickey has over the past year at his age? Would a 16 year old Andy Robertson have put in such an assured performance in a cup final for instance? Hickey's success or otherwise will come down to a number of factors but at the moment I don't think a career at a top club can be ruled out. 

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Batistuta87
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Andy Robertson played games which is the key thing.

 

And developed at every club he was at. 

 

Robertson did it the right way. He stepped up sort of gradually from Queens Park to Dundee Utd to Hull to Liverpool. He got a sort of lucky break when Moreno got injured and got a decent run of games - I don't think he would have got a game at that point otherwise - and he's just cracked on from there really and is now arguably one of the best full backs in the game.

 

Would be concerned that Hickey is making the move too soon if he went to City rather than taking a smaller step first, and would only end up being loaned out repeatedly, and/or just playing for their development squad. In fairness to City though, they've developed Zinchenko and Angelino who I'm sure joined them as teenagers. They're now 23 or something and I've seen Zinchenko playing quite a bit. I don't follow them that closely so don't know if he's their regular left back or not. I guess it would be up to Hickey to get his head down and put the work in if he went. Suppose he's got to weigh up whether he wants £5k a week and some game time at someone like QPR or one of the other smaller English clubs that have shown an interest (I think Stoke was another??), or £20k a week and potentially no first team football for a couple of years unless he's loaned out. 

 

WIsh him all the luck in the world and I really hope it does work out for him. 

 

Edited by Batistuta87

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complete control
10 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Robertson did it the right way. He stepped up sort of gradually from Queens Park to Dundee Utd to Hull to Liverpool. He got a sort of lucky break when Moreno got injured and got a decent run of games - I don't think he would have got a game at that point otherwise - and he's just cracked on from there really and is now arguably one of the best full backs in the game.

 

Would be concerned that Hickey is making the move too soon if he went to City rather than taking a smaller step first, and would only end up being loaned out repeatedly, and/or just playing for their development squad. In fairness to City though, they've developed Zinchenko and Angelino who I'm sure joined them as teenagers. They're now 23 or something and I've seen Zinchenko playing quite a bit. I don't follow them that closely so don't know if he's their regular left back or not. I guess it would be up to Hickey to get his head down and put the work in if he went. Suppose he's got to weigh up whether he wants £5k a week and some game time at someone like QPR or one of the other smaller English clubs that have shown an interest (I think Stoke was another??), or £20k a week and potentially no first team football for a couple of years unless he's loaned out. 

 

WIsh him all the luck in the world and I really hope it does work out for him. 

 

wish him all the best too. 

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Anything2
36 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Robertson did it the right way. He stepped up sort of gradually from Queens Park to Dundee Utd to Hull to Liverpool. He got a sort of lucky break when Moreno got injured and got a decent run of games - I don't think he would have got a game at that point otherwise - and he's just cracked on from there really and is now arguably one of the best full backs in the game.

 

Would be concerned that Hickey is making the move too soon if he went to City rather than taking a smaller step first, and would only end up being loaned out repeatedly, and/or just playing for their development squad. In fairness to City though, they've developed Zinchenko and Angelino who I'm sure joined them as teenagers. They're now 23 or something and I've seen Zinchenko playing quite a bit. I don't follow them that closely so don't know if he's their regular left back or not. I guess it would be up to Hickey to get his head down and put the work in if he went. Suppose he's got to weigh up whether he wants £5k a week and some game time at someone like QPR or one of the other smaller English clubs that have shown an interest (I think Stoke was another??), or £20k a week and potentially no first team football for a couple of years unless he's loaned out. 

 

WIsh him all the luck in the world and I really hope it does work out for him. 

 

If there were more careers like Robertson's it would be really positive for smaller and medium sized clubs. Ironically, it was only possible because people kept on discounting him, if Celtic (think it was them or maybe Rangers) saw his potential and offered him a deal, they could have stifled his development. I would like to see teams who develop players to be rewarded more as a matter of course, perhaps sell on clauses as standard would help and not just the next sale but ongoing. Something like 15% for first sale, 10% for second and 5% for third. In Robertson's case Queen's Park, Dundee United, and Hull would then continue to benefit for their input into his development. 

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Pagey
2 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

Good post. Was aware that changes were being made but wasn't sure how quickly they were coming into effect.

 

It really is a case of teams stocking up on the "best talent" to stop them going elsewhere. Chelsea for example seem to generally get the first pick of the best talent in London (probably due to the ludicrous money they offer youngsters) and it's proven by how many times they've won the youth league / cups. What this does though is it can potentially restrict the players to only youth football which can potentially stint their growth unless they're punted out on loan somewhere. 

 

I read the other day that a Chelsea player Van Ginkel, now 27 and has been at the club since 2011/12 I think. Has not played a first team game for them in almost that length of time and has been on loan 7 or 8 times. What have they done? They've given him a new deal. That is an immense waste of a player.

 

If you were to be brave and reject Chelsea for another London club i.e. Fulham, Palace or Arsenal, there's a clearer path into the first team, using Sessegnon for example with Fulham before he was sold to Spurs, Wan Bissaka now at Utd and the likes of Joe Willock and Bukayo Saka for Arsenal.

 

Anyway I'm off topic but I personally can't see a clear path for Hickey at City and could see him leaving as a 22/23 year old player with 4 years worth of English youth contact type money in his pocket. I hope I'm wrong however.

Could easily be the next Demi Mitchell in that scenario- decent contract, loaned out and then early 20s, looking for a club.

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jonnothejambo

Is this pish or fact ? 

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jambo3tevie
7 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

Is this pish or fact ? 

I was wondering the same bud, I think its just social media rumours

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RustyRightPeg
33 minutes ago, Pagey said:

Could easily be the next Demi Mitchell in that scenario- decent contract, loaned out and then early 20s, looking for a club.

 

Exactly that. I saw the other day that Ashley Smith-Brown (remember him), who barely kicked a ball for us on loan from City is now a free agent after being released by Plymouth.

 

The money messes with these players heads at a young age it's a fact.

 

On the topic of Demi Mitchell, it's good for footballers to have outside interests, but I don't think he's kicked a ball since he started his clothing brand.

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buzzbomb
33 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

Is this pish or fact ? 

The current rumour is pish 

 

 

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Anything2
1 hour ago, Pagey said:

Could easily be the next Demi Mitchell in that scenario- decent contract, loaned out and then early 20s, looking for a club.

It's a difficult proposition to turn down for a young player though. You could be the next Luke Chadwick but you could also be the next Paul Scholes. When they were recruited and loaned out the coaches probably didn't know exactly how it was going to turn out. Hickey has more exposure to real football than a lot of the players in these development teams so he may shine in that environment and be able to get loaned out to a team a decent level quickly. If so it's up to his commitment and drive to determine how for he will go. 

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Cruyff
1 hour ago, buzzbomb said:

The current rumour is pish 

 

 

Man City have been hinging around for a while on Hickey, even gave us that Japanese chap as a sweetener. 

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Pasquale for King

I hope he goes to a club outside Scotland, has another year here then does well and gets us a big sell on fee. 
The weird one for me is although he’s a RB the 19yo Jeremie Frimpong, a Dutch u20s player, was allowed to leave City after ten years for about £350k. Whenever I saw this guy he looks far better going forward than Hickey does, which as a City player it would seem to be a pre requisite. Unless they have a few RBs better than him. 
Hickey is a good defender though and being able to play both sides is also in his favour.

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OTT
4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I hope he goes to a club outside Scotland, has another year here then does well and gets us a big sell on fee. 
The weird one for me is although he’s a RB the 19yo Jeremie Frimpong, a Dutch u20s player, was allowed to leave City after ten years for about £350k. Whenever I saw this guy he looks far better going forward than Hickey does, which as a City player it would seem to be a pre requisite. Unless they have a few RBs better than him. 
Hickey is a good defender though and being able to play both sides is also in his favour.

 

The Andy robertson path would be better for him (i.e give us another couple of years then make his move down South) but he's not signing an extension because he thinks he can do better. For a player like Hickey who is definitely making it, first team experience is invaluable. He could very well end up swallowed up going to a big club. 

 

That said, as long as its outside of Scotland, I couldn't really care less. Its about developing them and moving them on. Ensure we get a sell on fee and keep the line moving. 

 

We're going to have this situation again and again the more kids that come through here and 'make it' at this level. Its important the club develops strong links down south so that when that does happen we have a network to contact to try and offload quickly for maximum value. I want to develop a mindset where going down south, rather than west, is the mentality. Develop kids that want to play at the highest level. 

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Last Laff
12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I hope he goes to a club outside Scotland, has another year here then does well and gets us a big sell on fee. 
The weird one for me is although he’s a RB the 19yo Jeremie Frimpong, a Dutch u20s player, was allowed to leave City after ten years for about £350k. Whenever I saw this guy he looks far better going forward than Hickey does, which as a City player it would seem to be a pre requisite. Unless they have a few RBs better than him. 
Hickey is a good defender though and being able to play both sides is also in his favour.

He’s going to Celtic next summer. 

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

The Andy robertson path would be better for him (i.e give us another couple of years then make his move down South) but he's not signing an extension because he thinks he can do better. For a player like Hickey who is definitely making it, first team experience is invaluable. He could very well end up swallowed up going to a big club. 

 

That said, as long as its outside of Scotland, I couldn't really care less. Its about developing them and moving them on. Ensure we get a sell on fee and keep the line moving. 

 

We're going to have this situation again and again the more kids that come through here and 'make it' at this level. Its important the club develops strong links down south so that when that does happen we have a network to contact to try and offload quickly for maximum value. I want to develop a mindset where going down south, rather than west, is the mentality. Develop kids that want to play at the highest level. 

It would be better that way for us to get a sell on fee. Going down South should be the goal not West, it would be great to foster that. 
The problem is what will he learn in the Championship with us. 
He will make it though, you can see him working a winger out as the game goes on and the winger usually ends up frustrated at the plooky teenager getting the better of him mentally and physically and have a kick at him. As long as we get what he’s worth good luck to him. 

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