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willie wallace
1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:


Yep, the vast majority of teachers threw out a generic exercise each day and got on with decorating their houses and keeping fit. 

Expect a call from my missus shortly Nookie😊

Never stopped working the whole of lockdown.Meetings from early morning to liasing with parents and dealing with the education dept.

Was quite a stressful time.

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38 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Maybe if they had kept hospitality open so that people meet up in safe controlled environments then the need for house parties calms down?

 

Worked well for England right enough.

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32 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

NOYB 

 

Correct, It's NOMB, but you got my attention with your Aviemore post. So, you travelled from Midlothian, through Fife, Perth & Kinross into the Highlands. Are you exempt from our nations current rules & restrictions?

Edited by OBE
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1 hour ago, frankblack said:

I find the posts above about a quiz being very bizarre.

 

Assuming people can use Skype even if audio only, couldn't the teachers do presentations of the subject material as they would in class and take questions in the chat window from pupils?

 

Absolutely they could've, but they didn't.

 

As per Nookie's comments, they clearly had more pressing issues to contend with. And it was sunny!

 

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14 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Im not sure if there any rules broken if it was already booked, as the travel restrictions are only advisory, I might be wrong though.

 

Here are the relevant guidelines: https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-travel-and-transport/

 

In general:

 

"To suppress the spread of COVID-19 it is essential that, with limited exceptions, there is no travel to or from areas where higher numbers of people may be carrying the virus.  If people don’t abide by the travel guidance set out here, there is a risk that the virus will spread to areas where it is less common and we may have to return to national restrictions. To avoid that, to keep everyone safe, please comply with this advice.

...

If you live in a Level 3 local authority area you should:

  • avoid any unnecessary travel out of the area
  • if you have to travel for essential purposes, follow the guidance on travelling safely below

...

Exceptions

This is a list of limited exceptions from the guidance not to travel into or out of Level 3 and 4 local authority areas, or to or from other parts of the UK. Please do not see these as loopholes. It is important for everyone’s safety that we all minimise such travel as much as possible.

  • travel for work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, but only where that cannot be done from your home
  • travel to school, college, or university where teaching is not provided remotely
  • (To and from Level 3 areas but not Level 4) travel for under 18s sport
  • travel for essential shopping only where it is not possible in your local authority area – you should use on-line shopping or shops, banks and other services in your local area wherever you can
  • travel for healthcare, social care, childcare and other essential services, including recycling, but only if they are not available in your local area
  • travel to provide care or assistance to a vulnerable person
  • travel for shared parenting or travel between the two parts of an extended household
  • travel to meet a legal obligation, including attending court or satisfying bail conditions, or to participate in legal proceedings
  • travel for essential animal welfare reasons, such as feeding a horse or going to a vet
  • local outdoor informal exercise such as walking, cycling, golf, or running (in groups of up to 6 people from no more than 2 households) that starts and finishes at the same place  
  • travel locally (within around 5 miles of your local authority area) to reach a place to take exercise outdoors
  • travel for weddings, civil partnership registrations, funerals and other “life events” (such as bar mitzvahs and christenings)
  • if you are a minister of religion or worship leader travel to your place of worship
  • (to or from Level 3 areas, but not Level 4) travel to your normal place of worship
  • travel to give blood at a Scottish National Blood Transfusion Service collection session
  • travel to transit through Level 3 and 4 areas by road or public transport if your journey begins and ends outside such an area
  • travel to move house
  • travel to avoid injury, illness or to escape a risk of harm

 

Edited by redjambo
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33 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Worked well for England right enough.

 

Do you have the figures showing hospitality as a primary factor in infections in England?

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2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

I know - I can't believe Scotland followed England in sending untested patients into care homes, and failed to disclose the Covid outbreak at the Nike conference.

 

 

Scotland have a lot to answer over their lack of transparency with the data behind their decision making, and choice to try and keep the entire central belt in the same tier.

 

They must also look hard at themselves over the failure to enforce the rules the make, such as do random checks on people quarantining, enforce mask wearing in enclosed spaces such as public transport.  Its all very well Nicola standing on her daily pulpit preaching about the rules but if there isn't any enforcement behind them its a complete waste of time.

 

Targeting hospitality has also been a major goal.  5 weeks since that was shut and there has been no noticeable difference in the data suggesting they were telling porkies.

 

Where do you think the "untested patients" should have gone then?

 

How do you know about the Nike conference outbreak if it was not disclosed and what difference would disclosure have had?

 

Which data are we not being transparent about in Scotland? How do you know that the decision to keep most of the central belt (whatever that is) in the same tier is not a good one?

 

What makes you think that we have the resources to enforce mask wearing and quarantining on a wide scale and what makes you think we are not enforcing some of the breaches?

 

If you had listened to the briefings you would know that the best way to get compliance is for people to buy into the restrictions and the best way for that to happen is for people to have the reasoning explained. 

 

Have you not noticed that since the tier system was introduced and much of hospitality closed, the number of infections has stopped rising and is now falling?

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Nucky Thompson
2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Do you have the figures showing hospitality as a primary factor in infections in England?

It wasn't down to hospitality. 

Large groups meeting up in houses and multi generational homes were the biggest spreaders

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14 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Where do you think the "untested patients" should have gone then?

 

Into wards/dedicated hospitals awaiting testing.  Basically anywhere they can contain the spread except care homes.

 

Quote

How do you know about the Nike conference outbreak if it was not disclosed and what difference would disclosure have had?

 

I'm more concerned about the reasons for withholding the disclosure and allowing infected people to spread the virus.

 

Quote

Which data are we not being transparent about in Scotland? How do you know that the decision to keep most of the central belt (whatever that is) in the same tier is not a good one?

 

A breakdown by sector per region of where the infections are happening so targetted actions can be made.

 

Quote

What makes you think that we have the resources to enforce mask wearing and quarantining on a wide scale and what makes you think we are not enforcing some of the breaches?

 

Can't say we would have the resources to do it across the board, which is why you do spot checks and catch people on public transport for starters.

 

Other breaches such as house parties are a direct consequence on shutting well-run secure hospitality.

 

Quote

If you had listened to the briefings you would know that the best way to get compliance is for people to buy into the restrictions and the best way for that to happen is for people to have the reasoning explained. 

 

People no longer watch the briefings as we don't trust the SG, one example being the 2 week circuit breaker which suddenly changed into a tier system to keep businesses shut.

 

Quote

Have you not noticed that since the tier system was introduced and much of hospitality closed, the number of infections has stopped rising and is now falling?

 

They have been shut for nearly 6 weeks.  Hospitality does not seem to be the cause would be my conclusion.

 

Any fall in infections will be attributable to other factors, such as an effective lockdown where people have nothing to go out for bar their messages nowadays.

Edited by frankblack
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5 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It wasn't down to hospitality. 

Large groups meeting up in houses and multi generational homes were the biggest spreaders

 

Correct.  Hospitality has been shut now for what six weeks?

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6 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It wasn't down to hospitality. 

Large groups meeting up in houses and multi generational homes were the biggest spreaders

 

But if pubs are open nobody meets up in houses.

 

 

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Just now, Ray Gin said:

 

More cases. More deaths. Full lockdown.

 

I thought you were claiming you had some insight into how the closing of Hospitality had impacted positively on corona virus cases. In fact you're glorifying in the deaths and suffering of people from another country. Well done.

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Weakened Offender
1 hour ago, willie wallace said:

Expect a call from my missus shortly Nookie😊

Never stopped working the whole of lockdown.Meetings from early morning to liasing with parents and dealing with the education dept.

Was quite a stressful time.

 

I know two teachers in state schools who had similar experiences. Never stopped. Were also given clusters of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds to check in on every day. 

 

It was a disgusting, braindead generalisation that won't even stand out in a thread that should have been pulled months ago. 

Edited by Weakened Offender
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1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

There will be far fewer house parties for starters.

 

 

I'm confused. House parties are to blame for the higher numbers in England, whose hospitality stayed open?

 

Yet hospitality staying open is meant to stop people having house parties.

 

Make your mind up.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I thought you were claiming you had some insight into how the closing of Hospitality had impacted positively on corona virus cases. In fact you're glorifying in the deaths and suffering of people from another country. Well done.

 

Yeah that's exactly what I'm doing. Revelling in it so I am.

 

:bolt: 

 

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1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

I'm confused. House parties are to blame for the higher numbers in England, whose hospitality stayed open?

 

Yet hospitality staying open is meant to stop people having house parties.

 

Make your mind up.

 

 

 

:cornette_dog:

 

You are having an absolute nightmare.

 

Constantly flicking back and forth between England and Scotland, and if anyone is confused it should be everyone else with the nonsense you posted.

 

I'm still waiting for you to produce the stats that show hospitality is to blame for the rise in infections in Scotland.  Lets deal with that first, shall we?

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2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

:cornette_dog:

 

You are having an absolute nightmare.

 

Constantly flicking back and forth between England and Scotland, and if anyone is confused it should be everyone else with the nonsense you posted.

 

I'm still waiting for you to produce the stats that show hospitality is to blame for the rise in infections in Scotland.  Lets deal with that first, shall we?

 

It's not me who is having the nightmare.

 

You claimed that hospitality staying open would reduce house parties. Hospitality did stay open in England. England has considerably higher cases and deaths, but you are saying this is down to house parties, which by your own logic should not have been happening as everyone would have been in the pub instead.

 

 

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The Mighty Thor
35 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Do you have the figures showing hospitality as a primary factor in infections in England?

I'll take this one.

No he doesn't. 

Furthermore PHE outbreak figures give a decent snapshot of where the infection is being driven. They publish it every week unlike SG.

 

Give it a minute and we'll have the outbreak doesn't equal infection deflection. 

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1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I'll take this one.

No he doesn't. 

Furthermore PHE outbreak figures give a decent snapshot of where the infection is being driven. They publish it every week unlike SG.

 

Give it a minute and we'll have the outbreak doesn't equal infection deflection. 

 

Correct I don't, as I didn't claim it was a "primary" factor.

It was however one of the few differences between SG and UKGov policy.

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Just now, Brian Dundas said:

I don't get this as you couldn't really meet up in the pub with other households and all of you maintain the 2m or 1m distancing. People were either not following that or would meet up in houses anyway.

 

It's simple. Pubs open = less house parties = lower cases. Except in England, apparently.

 

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The Mighty Thor
3 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Apart from within households, which is to be expected can you please explain how the PHE figures give us a snapshot of where the virus is jumping from one household to another? 

 

That way we can avoid the deflection you claim will follow, I am very far from an expert on this and will gladly be educated.

 

Thanks

It doesn't show where the virus is being transmitted from one household to another. How could it?

What it does show is the 'sectors' of the community where there are outbreaks of the virus such as care homes, workplaces and schools. 

Generally an outbreak would suggest that there is infection, which are positive cases, therefore it gives you a pretty clear idea of where transmission is occurring. 

In the absence of definitive data its as close as you're going to get. 

 

What it shows is that the policy of SG/UKG is flawed. There's no appetite to shutdown the main transmission vector, therefore we're in a groundhog day of high circulation of the virus in the community and half arsed lockdowns of sectors that were never a problem to begin with. 

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11 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I don't get this as you couldn't really meet up in the pub with other households and all of you maintain the 2m or 1m distancing. People were either not following that or would meet up in houses anyway.

 

Before the hospitality shut for the 2 week "circuit breaker" we could meet one other houshold in a pub or restauraunt.  You could sit others at different tables.  I'm sure it was 1m distancing then.

Edited by frankblack
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17 minutes ago, jonesy said:

We got a pdf every week with a list of possible activities, accompanied by regular emails ensuring us they didn't have to complete much of the work. This led to quite a large amount of differentiation - more than usual - required when they came back.

 

Not sure whether individual teachers were hamstrung by the union or the councils, or whether individual schools decided their own policy. Either way, the thought of going back to distance learning with primary school children fills me with dread. I'd probably take them out and go full-on home school for the next couple of years.


A pdf a week is an improvement on what he got. :laugh:

Half a dozen passwords to random websites - only one of which actually worked, and about a dozen sheets of paper he’d finished by day 2. 
Month and a half in before they bothered to finally give him the correct passwords. 

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1 hour ago, Brian Dundas said:

Im not sure if there any rules broken if it was already booked, as the travel restrictions are only advisory, I might be wrong though.

 

Travelling from a higher infection rate (T3) council district to a lower infection rate district (T2) for a jolly should be against the law. To get the doughnuts attention, proper fines (10k) should be introduced, save it up and by some feckin bullets...📈📉  :)

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23 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

It's simple. Pubs open = less house parties = lower cases. Except in England, apparently.

 

 

You're wasting your time.  Let us just say that the counter arguments are 'flexible'.  

 

It's a bit like the people who maintain that most of the positive test results are false positives... but also use the same test results to try to demonstrate as low a death / serious illness rate as they can.

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highlandjambo3
8 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

Travelling from a higher infection rate (T3) council district to a lower infection rate district (T2) for a jolly should be against the law. To get the doughnuts attention, proper fines (10k) should be introduced, save it up and by some feckin bullets...📈📉  :)

I was out the other day circling through town and I live in a T1 area, I seen a coach with a logo on the side “Lake District tours” or something similar but, the phone number was 0141 ******* Glasgow T3 area.  There were people on board but I couldn’t see how many as I was not to close and, the windows were blacked out......what’s that all about?

 

Not sure how backlogged the courts are but, I’d wager there is a large backlog of lockdown breaches to be processed.

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highlandjambo3
2 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

I was out the other day cycling through town and I live in a T1 area, I seen a coach with a logo on the side “Lake District tours” or something similar but, the phone number was 0141 ******* Glasgow T3 area.  There were people on board but I couldn’t see how many as I was not to close and, the windows were blacked out......what’s that all about?

 

Not sure how backlogged the courts are but, I’d wager there is a large backlog of lockdown breaches to be processed.

 

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4 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

I was out the other day cycling through town and I live in a T1 area, I seen a coach with a logo on the side “Lake District tours” or something similar but, the phone number was 0141 ******* Glasgow T3 area.  There were people on board but I couldn’t see how many as I was not to close and, the windows were blacked out......what’s that all about?

 

Not sure how backlogged the courts are but, I’d wager there is a large backlog of lockdown breaches to be processed.

 FTFY...:thumbs_up:

 

Might've been a few oil paintings aboard...:D

 

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1 hour ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:



Robovie uses lasers to measure social distancing, politely asks shoppers to cover up and guides them around the store

 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/16/japan-shop-deploys-robot-to-check-people-are-wearing-face-masks

 

 

Not a bad idea

 

Thailand's had similar for the last 6 months, here is an article from May about them, and these were the first generation, there are much better ones out now.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/28/robots-deployed-to-shopping-malls-to-prevent-covid-19-spread

Edited by Jambo-Jimbo
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19 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Thailand's had similar for the last 6 months, here is an article from May about them, and these were the first generation, there are much better ones out now.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/28/robots-deployed-to-shopping-malls-to-prevent-covid-19-spread

brilliant, just put them on charge at the end of the day.

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1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It doesn't show where the virus is being transmitted from one household to another. How could it?

What it does show is the 'sectors' of the community where there are outbreaks of the virus such as care homes, workplaces and schools. 

Generally an outbreak would suggest that there is infection, which are positive cases, therefore it gives you a pretty clear idea of where transmission is occurring. 

In the absence of definitive data its as close as you're going to get. 

 

What it shows is that the policy of SG/UKG is flawed. There's no appetite to shutdown the main transmission vector, therefore we're in a groundhog day of high circulation of the virus in the community and half arsed lockdowns of sectors that were never a problem to begin with. 

Exactly. And that's why many scientists now believe that the majority of infections derive from superspreading events. 80% of positive cases will likely spread the virus to nobody. Hospitals, care homes, university halls of residence   White House  rose gardens etc. The govts know very well those are the sources of most transmission of the virus but it is not politically convenient to tackle the issue. Hospitality will only be accountable for negligible amounts of transmission but it's far easier for govts to close them down and invent ridiculous rules around alcohol,  meals and closing times that are about as scientific as cracking a nut with a sledgehammer. Locking down further or imposing further restrictions will not make a blind bit of difference. 

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Another one of my friends weans has tested positive today. Schools must be riddled here in Glasgow.

 

In the last 10 days thats 5 of my friends been tested positive and / or their kids as well. The majority of them also have symptoms. Another friends sister died last week after testing positive as well.

 

Certainly feels a lot different from back in March when we first dealt with it.

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8 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Weegie. Its not plural😄.

 

Best to place Edinburgh in tier 4 as well, just in case.

 

Don't give her ideas.

 

::muggy:

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Nucky Thompson
7 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Another one of my friends weans has tested positive today. Schools must be riddled here in Glasgow.

 

In the last 10 days thats 5 of my friends been tested positive and / or their kids as well. The majority of them also have symptoms. Another friends sister died last week after testing positive as well.

 

Certainly feels a lot different from back in March when we first dealt with it.

I don't know any kids who have caught it. None of my friends kids, none of my own or any of their pals.

 

I would close Queen street and Central stations and set up roadblocks at Harthill 

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2 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Where do you think the "untested patients" should have gone then?

 

 

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Into wards/dedicated hospitals awaiting testing.  Basically anywhere they can contain the spread except care homes.

 

 

Dedicated hospitals, is a good idea, something along the lines of the old fever hospitals, only problem is who staff's them?

 

I can tell you that at the Borders General almost every ward is short staffed right now, one of the reasons is there are a lot of staff off who have been told by the track & trace app that they need to self-isolate, and there is also a high number of staff off sick, including several with covid, there are so many staff are off just now, which puts added pressure on the staff who are left, there are barely enough to tend the patients they have.

 

Ultimately it is the same old problem, just not enough frontline/ward staff, and the problem is especially acute just now with the track & trace system and sickness, it's a perfect storm, short staffed and more and more patients being admitted to hospital.

 

I do not think the BGH will be the only hospital in this position right now either.

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