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5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Does that mean we have to re-sign Steven McLean? If so, I'm out. :(

 

On a serious note, don't go about pointing out facts (the real sort, not the ones Twit_in_Hamilton keeps banging on about) like the above. It doesn't help with the sarcasm, pedantry and name-calling that folk on this thread have worked so hard to establish as the standard way of discussing the matter 😛

 

Covid is one risk among many in this beautiful world, and one that the majority of us should feel comfortable enough dealing with. Special cases should take extra care. That's all. No more and no less. :)

Great points Jonesy. I couldn't agree more. And, no, thankfully there is no need to re-sign Steven McLean 😎

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Some folk on this thread honestly what miserable bleak lives you must live day to day. Where did you express your fear and scornful views before COVID?

 

Weirdos.

 

Anyway another interesting article from a Swedish doctor - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-dangerous-is-covid-a-swedish-doctor-s-perspective/amp?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR3rtjXnlmQR1p7bxRKhOpiP60U1c6g3TWGJBUszBisLeTp01KL_7QVxNNA

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1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

2.4.6 or 8 weeks?  Once they're up, let's wait until the end of Winter?

Yes thats the issue i have. We basically came out of lockdown on July 15th and the deaths and hospital admissions have been nowhere near the stats in March/ April. But all we hear is that " its coming again" So when? 

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1 hour ago, Back to 2005 said:

So whays the plan for a pandemic?

Lockdown then open things up. Cases go up so lockdown again. Then presumably open up until....

Remind me of the definition of madness again....

Or the politicians could admit they made a mistake. 

Surely the simplest plan is to shield the elderly and vulnerable until an effective treatment is found or a the holy grail of the vaccine. Give those who are vulnerable and elderly  as much support they need such as shopping , emotional support etc.  They can also go out daily for exercise .  Has no one else considered that some of the elderly and those who are vulnerable may want to make their own risk assessment and balance it out with living life as well as they can or having the preference to stay and home ?    We can  let the the rest of the population  get on with things and keep the economy going . If , sorry when , the economy goes bust i dread to think of the long term impact on this on a vast majority of the public. 

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A Boy Named Crow
7 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Watched a few of this Aussie guy where they’ve been proper harsh...

 

TBF, Alan Jones is a right wing wind bag, shock jock, sensationalist hack. The measures in Australia have worked very well, with the notable exception of the quarantine  guards in Victoria who were pumping the folk in quarantine.  That's what led to the runaway numbers in Victoria over the last couple of months. The Victorian (Labor) government brought in a very strict lockdown,  which many (on the right) have criticised,  but their infection rate is now down below 50 per day. Not bad, compared with Scotland this week. 

 

NSW has fairly light restrictions in comparison to Victoria, but tests anything that moves. Here the virus was almost wiped out, until people from Victoria's second wave brought it back. Even now the numbers are down to zero or single digit community transmissions per day. The NSW successes have come from both the testing and the fact that the population here basically implemented a voluntary lockdown. People CAN go out, but most don't. 

 

Folk like Alan Jones would have had Australia follow Trump's lead in terms of policy. We'd be utterly fecked by now. Just file him under Ignore and more on. 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

25% of people asking for tests don't have any symptoms.

They are turning up at test centres without an appointment because they are scared :facepalm:

FFS get a fecking grip

Probably because a family member or workmate has tested positive or have shown symptoms. But do bash on with your fear mongering. 

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The Mighty Thor
8 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

2.4.6 or 8 weeks?  Once they're up, let's wait until the end of Winter?

According to BBC and Johnson's official mouthpiece, Kuenssberg, nationwide lockdown for 2 weeks inbound. 

Perhaps the scientists see something different?

 

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7 hours ago, SteauaNeedarest said:

Some folk on this thread honestly what miserable bleak lives you must live day to day. Where did you express your fear and scornful views before COVID?

 

Weirdos.

 

Anyway another interesting article from a Swedish doctor - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-dangerous-is-covid-a-swedish-doctor-s-perspective/amp?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR3rtjXnlmQR1p7bxRKhOpiP60U1c6g3TWGJBUszBisLeTp01KL_7QVxNNA


 

Interesting article.  Although you aren’t allowed to post anything about Sweden as it doesn’t fit the narrative. 

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jack D and coke
18 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

This circuit breaker idea of a 2 week mini lockdown/reset makes little sense to me. I have little doubt it will reduce spread for a period, however, when it’s done? We will be in the same position 2 weeks after the mini lockdown ends. 


It solves nothing and only delays the inevatible. 
 

Alternately 2 week lockdown might just be a requirement due to the govt failing to get testing and their test and trace in order and buy them a bit time. 
 

Lockdown, unlock, lockdown really isn’t a substainnable plan. The cycle needs broken. 

 

I struggle with the aim of restrictions/lockdown about. If it’s about protecting the NHS they should be looking at the high risk to address that problem ie. look to safe guard vulnerable and elderly as they are by far and away most severely impact and lily required to need NHS treatment. If it’s about saving life, lockdown causes as much as it saves. 
 

It’s a pretty large failing that 6 month into crisis lockdown seem the only measures govt can flex. It has been clear for a long time we were going to have to live with and lockdowns were not a viable solution. 
 

 

Rinse and repeat for the foreseeable. They have no idea what to do to get us out of this other than hope it disappears. 
Farcical. 

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8 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Rinse and repeat for the foreseeable. They have no idea what to do to get us out of this other than hope it disappears. 
Farcical. 

That’s because they are following “the science” ie hypotheses and computer models.

Instead they should be following the evidence.

If you followed the evidence you would be doing things very differently now.

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25 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Rinse and repeat for the foreseeable. They have no idea what to do to get us out of this other than hope it disappears. 
Farcical. 

 

There's no endgame. Really the options are:

 

- continue this cycle whilst hoping for a vaccine for years

- accept the existence of Covid 19, go back to normal and hope for a vaccine

 

One is political suicide short term, the other political suicide long term. Eventually people are probably going to have to make their peace with the second option, all we are doing is delaying the point we get to there imo.

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Just seen Hancock on BBC. Every question just about was when are we going back in to national lockdown?! Like this will fix everything. The BBC are as bad as the politicians and not asking the questions the public want to hear.

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20 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

That’s because they are following “the science” ie hypotheses and computer models.

Instead they should be following the evidence.

If you followed the evidence you would be doing things very differently now.

 

They have to model the data they have.  The problem is that they haven't got the historical data from a recent previous pandemic in the UK to base line against.

 

It sounds like the evidence you are talking about is not evidence but jumping to conclusions based on partial data.

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At a meeting on Wednesday night, the government's chief scientific adviser and medical officer predicted another serious outbreak of the disease.

They forecast that there would be a significant number of deaths by the end of October if there were no further interventions.

 

From BBC article.

 

Obviously to put a brake on community transmission.   Age profile changing.   Virus inevitably creeping back towards more susceptible people.    

 

Pre-empt and prevent demand on the NHS so that it can continue to treat all those other things people often cite as just as important as CV.    Allow the tracing system a chance to cope.   Allow the testing a chance to catch up,  improve and increase.    

 

It might not have been necessary if enough people had had the stomach to stick with the campaign.   Or who weren't living in denial.    But that's gone now.   Large swathes of the public are willfully hampering the efforts and can't be trusted.

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13 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

They have to model the data they have.  The problem is that they haven't got the historical data from a recent previous pandemic in the UK to base line against.

 

It sounds like the evidence you are talking about is not evidence but jumping to conclusions based on partial data.

The evidence is there.

A virus is circulating, we know the risk groups.

It is otherwise pretty harmless.

there is no vaccine coming.

We have plenty NHS capacity

 

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The Mighty Thor
10 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Edinburgh Napier University's Freshers Week was last week and all events were just online things. No big parties. 

That's a worry then. 11 kids in a halls of residence have tested positive.

Has the virus become virtual, travelling through t'internet?

 

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Malinga the Swinga

Two week lock down will achieve **** all apart from destroying more businesses, bring more redundancies and disrupt education. Time to accept that people die every day and the rush to extend life and conquer all viruses and diseases isn't going to happen in next few years, so let's get on with living instead of just existing.

 

Computer models and forecasting based on the well known IT 'garbage in, garbage out' mantra can be manipulated to show whatever is desired and can be interpreted differently depending on what those in charge desire.

 

No chance scientists will ever admit they were wrong, and no chance governments will either. How anyone can trust these scientists and politicians is beyond me.

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7 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The evidence is there.

A virus is circulating, we know the risk groups.

It is otherwise pretty harmless.

there is no vaccine coming.

We have plenty NHS capacity

 

 

That sounds like complacency based on assumptions.  I think France had that approach, and are now at capacity according to a news story I saw last night.

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Malinga the Swinga
20 minutes ago, Victorian said:

At a meeting on Wednesday night, the government's chief scientific adviser and medical officer predicted another serious outbreak of the disease.

They forecast that there would be a significant number of deaths by the end of October if there were no further interventions.

 

From BBC article.

 

Obviously to put a brake on community transmission.   Age profile changing.   Virus inevitably creeping back towards more susceptible people.    

 

Pre-empt and prevent demand on the NHS so that it can continue to treat all those other things people often cite as just as important as CV.    Allow the tracing system a chance to cope.   Allow the testing a chance to catch up,  improve and increase.    

 

It might not have been necessary if enough people had had the stomach to stick with the campaign.   Or who weren't living in denial.    But that's gone now.   Large swathes of the public are willfully hampering the efforts and can't be trusted.

What a load of scare mongering pish. 

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jack D and coke
34 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There's no endgame. Really the options are:

 

- continue this cycle whilst hoping for a vaccine for years

- accept the existence of Covid 19, go back to normal and hope for a vaccine

 

One is political suicide short term, the other political suicide long term. Eventually people are probably going to have to make their peace with the second option, all we are doing is delaying the point we get to there imo.

The ONLY option is accept it’s here and get on with it. Option one keeps us backed into this corner with no escape route whatsoever and god knows what damage to people with other diseases. We’re living in an insane moment in time where nothing else seems to matter but Covid. I’m so thankful I don’t have any illnesses as I’d imagine you’d realise you just don’t matter anymore and that must be a terrible feeling. You can just wait until we make this bad disease disappear. What a tragedy. 

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A Boy Named Crow
26 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

That's a worry then. 11 kids in a halls of residence have tested positive.

Has the virus become virtual, travelling through t'internet?

 

Just keep your antivirus software up to date, you'll be fine...

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10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The ONLY option is accept it’s here and get on with it. Option one keeps us backed into this corner with no escape route whatsoever and god knows what damage to people with other diseases. We’re living in an insane moment in time where nothing else seems to matter but Covid. I’m so thankful I don’t have any illnesses as I’d imagine you’d realise you just don’t matter anymore and that must be a terrible feeling. You can just wait until we make this bad disease disappear. What a tragedy. 

 

TBF to the UK Govt, wasn’t that their initial plan? Essentially a carry on as normal until we reach herd immunity. It was us (the public collectively) that started wailing and  gnashing our teeth about the fact that Spain, Italy, France had gone into Lockdown so of course we should follow suit. 

 

Interesting to wonder what would have happened, or where we would be now if we had just carried on as normal, save for a few small precautions.  

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jack D and coke
4 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

TBF to the UK Govt, wasn’t that their initial plan? Essentially a carry on as normal until we reach herd immunity. It was us (the public collectively) that started wailing and  gnashing our teeth about the fact that Spain, Italy, France had gone into Lockdown so of course we should follow suit. 

 

Interesting to wonder what would have happened, or where we would be now if we had just carried on as normal, save for a few small precautions.  

Mate I appreciate they erred on the side of caution until they knew what was going on and the furlough payments etc were all great ideas and saved the country a load of worry.
But we have to realise there is only one way out of here and it isn’t repeated lockdowns. 

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29 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

What a load of scare mongering pish. 

 

It's not scaremongering pish to state a case for the NHS being able to cope in the months ahead.   It's perfectly reasonable.    

 

 

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Malinga the Swinga
4 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

TBF to the UK Govt, wasn’t that their initial plan? Essentially a carry on as normal until we reach herd immunity. It was us (the public collectively) that started wailing and  gnashing our teeth about the fact that Spain, Italy, France had gone into Lockdown so of course we should follow suit. 

 

Interesting to wonder what would have happened, or where we would be now if we had just carried on as normal, save for a few small precautions.  

Sweden did and it doesn't seem to have been any worse affected than countries who shit themselves and went into panic mode. Still, it has given opportunity for people like Whitty and Leitch to make name for themselves and get into public eye. Jason Leitch in particular comes over as loving the attention he is getting and will be reluctant to go back into shadows.

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jack D and coke

Does anyone work at the royal infirmary here? A mate of mine said he spoke to a doctor who said the last admission at the ERI for Covid was end of may. 

Anyone know if that’s true or not?

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People can mock and go down the route of shouting down stuff they can't cope with but there's no magic wand to just make these problems vanish.    No wet nurse to kiss it better and make the boohoos go away.   You need to face up to our problems like adults.    

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

People can mock and go down the route of shouting down stuff they can't cope with but there's no magic wand to just make these problems vanish.    No wet nurse to kiss it better and make the boohoos go away.   You need to face up to our problems like adults.    

 

 

 

Isn't that the opposite of what your suggesting and what those your critiquing are actually in favour of?

 

Hiding away isn't facing up to our problems.

 

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Governor Tarkin
1 hour ago, Victorian said:

    

It might not have been necessary if enough people had had the stomach to stick with the campaign.   Or who weren't living in denial.    But that's gone now.   Large swathes of the public are willfully hampering the efforts and can't be trusted.

 

The demographic who are probably quite rightly assuming that this virus is unlikely to affect them directly just don't give a shit. We've all seen it with our own eyes, be it in the local council scheme pub, the after parties, the local park, or outside the local chip shop. I'd wager that the majority of us middle-aged whingers would've been exactly the same had this swept through twenty odd years ago. 

 

Short of closing down all hospitality,  prowling the schemes looking for house parties, and putting troops on the streets, there's absolutely **** all that anyone can do about it.

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2 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The demographic who are probably quite rightly assuming that this virus is unlikely to affect them directly just don't give a shit. We've all seen it with our own eyes, be it in the local council scheme pub, the after parties, the local park, or outside the local chip shop. I'd wager that the majority of us middle-aged whingers would've been exactly the same had this swept through twenty odd years ago. 

 

Short of closing down all hospitality,  prowling the schemes looking for house parties, and putting troops on the streets, there's absolutely **** all that anyone can do about it.

I agree with this. 

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Governor Tarkin
8 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Does anyone work at the royal infirmary here? A mate of mine said he spoke to a doctor who said the last admission at the ERI for Covid was end of may. 

Anyone know if that’s true or not?

 

@Bugsy Siegel works there.

PHM and all round good-guy  so he's not often on here, but if he see's this tag I'm sure he'd be happy to clarify.

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5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Isn't that the opposite of what your suggesting and what those your critiquing are actually in favour of?

 

Hiding away isn't facing up to our problems.

 

 

No.   We need to face the problems and find solutions,  while trying to live as much of our lives as possible.     I don't want a lockdown either.   Doing nothing is not a credible option.

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jack D and coke
1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

@Bugsy Siegel works there.

PHM and all round good-guy  so he's not often on here, but if he see's this tag I'm sure he'd be happy to clarify.

👍🏼
A mate has a taxi and said that’s what doc told him this morning. 

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7 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The demographic who are probably quite rightly assuming that this virus is unlikely to affect them directly just don't give a shit. We've all seen it with our own eyes, be it in the local council scheme pub, the after parties, the local park, or outside the local chip shop. I'd wager that the majority of us middle-aged whingers would've been exactly the same had this swept through twenty odd years ago. 

 

Short of closing down all hospitality,  prowling the schemes looking for house parties, and putting troops on the streets, there's absolutely **** all that anyone can do about it.

 

Good points.   That's how hard it is now.    Governments still don't know what to do.   Still trying to formulate the right measures.    But doing nothing will not solve our problems.   

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Just now, Victorian said:

 

No.   We need to face the problems and find solutions,  while trying to live as much of our lives as possible.     I don't want a lockdown either.   Doing nothing is not a credible option.

 

Lockdown has proven not to be a credible option either. It doesn't work, it just kicks the issue down the road. If it did, we wouldn't be where we are now.

 

Facing up to it would be accepting that humans aren't meant to live forever and that viruses always have and probably always will pose a threat to the vulnerable in our society. We should mitigate the risk as best as possible and try to protect those at risk whilst minimising impact of those who arent; hiding away and hoping it goes away before we next come out of a lockdown isn't a viable long term solution.

 

It's like putting everyone on a 1000 calorie diet because some people are obese... incidentally something else that's more likely to threaten our existence long term yet nobody seems fussed about

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13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Lockdown has proven not to be a credible option either. It doesn't work, it just kicks the issue down the road. If it did, we wouldn't be where we are now.

 

Facing up to it would be accepting that humans aren't meant to live forever and that viruses always have and probably always will pose a threat to the vulnerable in our society. We should mitigate the risk as best as possible and try to protect those at risk whilst minimising impact of those who arent; hiding away and hoping it goes away before we next come out of a lockdown isn't a viable long term solution.

 

It's like putting everyone on a 1000 calorie diet because some people are obese... incidentally something else that's more likely to threaten our existence long term yet nobody seems fussed about

 

You're right.   Lockdowns is not a long term solution on it's own.   But it could be a useful,  or indeed crucial,  shorter term tool to introduce periodic brakes on rising numbers.    

 

I maintain,  governments still don't know what the overall solutions are.    If short lockdowns to introduce delay into 'the model' forms part of the experts' thinking then it is surely worth considering as a credible tool.    

 

But yeah,   lockdowns will never be the solution on their own.

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:


Halls are a residence. A bunch of new people have moved in and started living with each other. Someone comes in with it and it will spread about.

 

 

which is why the despeartion to open the universities so the wee poppets could get 'the uni experience' is, and was always was going to be, a really stupid idea. 

You'd have thought the evidence of the carnage on US campus' would have maybe alerted people as to what was going to happen?

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Governor Tarkin
5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

which is why the despeartion to open the universities so the wee poppets could get 'the uni experience' is, and was always was going to be, a really stupid idea. 

You'd have thought the evidence of the carnage on US campus' would have maybe alerted people as to what was going to happen?

 

I'll stick my neck put and say that sixty odd deaths out of fifty odd thousand cases isn't carnage. It's not ideal but it's not carnage. And the bit in bold is disparagingly patronising as ****. Makes you look bitter and weakens an otherwise worthwhile point.

 

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The Mighty Thor
2 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I'll stick my neck put and say that sixty odd deaths out of fifty odd thousand cases isn't carnage. It's not ideal but it's not carnage. And the bit in bold is disparagingly patronising as ****. Makes you look bitter and weakens an otherwise worthwhile point.

 

It was intended to be.

 

I saw an interview with a student earlier in the week who said they were being robbed of their uni experience. Robbed.

 

Part of the reason we are in the shit state that we are, and you alluded to it yourself in an earlier post, is that people don't give a shit. It's all about them. It's all about them wanting to do what they want to do and nobody can tell them otherwise. No concept or awareness of what's going on in the real world. 

 

se if we get shut down again and there's no furlough and inevitable unemployment, where do the tax dollars that pay for the free further education and the student loans, which get paid back at about 50p a week and all that stuff come from?

 

 

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Education and including higher education certainly needs to be protected.   It would be a horrendous social injustice to impose an educational penalty on kids and HE students.    A life chances ruiner that cannot be allowed to happen.    

 

Some reasonable compromises aren't out of the question though.    The so-called uni experience talked about is not an unreasonable compromise.   

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Seeing Sweden mentioned again.Are their deaths not about 10 times that of Denmark who had stricter lockdown measures?

Is that a better comparison given they are neighbours?

That said, without factoring in a huge amount of factors (population density, health of the population,  incoming transport, exact same criteria for reporting deaths etc.) not sure we can easily just apply one countries policy and assume the same result here. 

 

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9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It was intended to be.

 

I saw an interview with a student earlier in the week who said they were being robbed of their uni experience. Robbed.

 

Part of the reason we are in the shit state that we are, and you alluded to it yourself in an earlier post, is that people don't give a shit. It's all about them. It's all about them wanting to do what they want to do and nobody can tell them otherwise. No concept or awareness of what's going on in the real world. 

 

se if we get shut down again and there's no furlough and inevitable unemployment, where do the tax dollars that pay for the free further education and the student loans, which get paid back at about 50p a week and all that stuff come from?

 

 

 

Isn't anything someones does/wants "all about them" and doing what they want?

 

The vulnerable don't want to shield (I don't think that's actually true) so others need to sacrifice for them. Is that making it all about them?

 

People don't want to lose their jobs so want others to sacrifice to protect them. Is that making it all about them?

 

People want to go where they please but not get coronavirus so want others to wear things to protect them. Is that making it all about them?

 

Prospective students "wants" are no lesser than anyone elses. Everyone has specific wants and need and has a perspective that theirs trump's other people's. 

 

 

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The Mighty Thor
3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Isn't anything someones does/wants "all about them" and doing what they want?

 

The vulnerable don't want to shield (I don't think that's actually true) so others need to sacrifice for them. Is that making it all about them?

 

People don't want to lose their jobs so want others to sacrifice to protect them. Is that making it all about them?

 

People want to go where they please but not get coronavirus so want others to wear things to protect them. Is that making it all about them?

 

Prospective students "wants" are no lesser than anyone elses. Everyone has specific wants and need and has a perspective that theirs trump's other people's. 

 

 

Does education need to be prioritised? Yes. 100%.

Can primary & secondary kids be taught from home with lessons online? No

University courses are very much the epitomy of courses that can be taught online as face to face tuition time per week for students is minimal. Therefore this can easily be done from a home base, thereby not facilitating kids travelling the country to go to halls etc. 

 

A friend of ours daughter has just gone down to Newcastle yesterday to go to uni. The day they've locked down the North East. 

 

The economy is a bigger priority. People don't work then they don't earn then they don't pay tax then the whole thing falls on its ass. So yes the priority should be those who go out to work and pay tax over those that do not. That's a fairly simple and fundemental economic principle.

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The Mighty Thor
2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:


Failing of Scottish Govt then. Can’t rally blame youngsters for doing as they’re instructed to. 
 

 

Agreed. Complete failure of common sense. 

 

Where the youngsters fail is when a halls of residence gets 11 cases in pretty much its first week. I've been in an office since the start of June with 18 others 10 hours a day, 5 days a week. Number of cases? Zero.

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11 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Does education need to be prioritised? Yes. 100%.

Can primary & secondary kids be taught from home with lessons online? No

University courses are very much the epitomy of courses that can be taught online as face to face tuition time per week for students is minimal. Therefore this can easily be done from a home base, thereby not facilitating kids travelling the country to go to halls etc. 

 

A friend of ours daughter has just gone down to Newcastle yesterday to go to uni. The day they've locked down the North East. 

 

The economy is a bigger priority. People don't work then they don't earn then they don't pay tax then the whole thing falls on its ass. So yes the priority should be those who go out to work and pay tax over those that do not. That's a fairly simple and fundemental economic principle.

 

That's all just in your opinion though. Everyone can only see the world through their own eyes. Others will see it differently. There's no need to patronise those who have different priorities. I don't agree with the online learning part, I think collaborative lessons are more important at university than at high school for example. One tends to require discussion, engagement and debate, the other is memorising things to regurgitate in an exam and the latter is much more suited to online learning.

 

I happen to agree with you that the economy and the workers must take priority though and as such agree with the part in bold. Which of course requires the ending of lockdowns and restrictions which in turn will mean that students can have their normal uni experience. Glad we agree.

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Pasquale for King
On 17/09/2020 at 07:54, Smithee said:

Bit of a tangent, but I'd always wondered about that name so I looked into it years ago.

 

In the old days different trades had their own guilds - stonemasons and their lodges are still in our consciousness for example.

But then there were trades which were too small to form a guild, so they all joined together to form the Oddfellows, a group whose common ground was that they had no natural group.

 

There are other theories I've read, it could be that it was just a fraternity based on the uncommon concepts of charity and philanthropy, but it goes back too far to be sure of the origins. The small trades explanation seems most likely to me.

 

Anyhoo, back to the topic..

Oddfellows hall was where Hamish Henderson started the Edinburgh Fringe in 1951 to show off local talent alongside the Festival. 

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