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12 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

As I keep saying stupid is doing exactly what you are told without question or because you are scared if you don't.  Think 1930s Germany. 

Far easier to act like a sheep and to hell with the consequences.  

 

You sound like you'd wear a tinfoil hat in a thunderstorm

 

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Just now, redjambo said:

 

Indeed. The people best suited to be politicians are perhaps historians. We're forever tackling the same problems, just packaged differently.

 

Oh yeh, different times, different names, different faces, but much the same shit as always.  :laugh:

 

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9 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Edgy. 

 

Tbh I doubt you could follow an article in Hello magazine, never mind understanding the science of whether or not masks are effective. 

Dont really give a flying one what you think. Shame you have to be rude and disrespectful but thats the way the country is heading. Divide and conquer etc..

We will see who is right when this finally ends. Hopefully I have it all wrong as it wouldn't be a good outcome if I'm right. 

But we are all just going over old ground so I will take a step back for a bit.

 

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2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I'm not sure anyone is a denier on here, they maybe don't agree with the measures the government are putting in place but surely nobody is denying Covid-19 exists.

 

On a side note how did we come out of the other plagues?

 

I didn't say that folk denied that Covid-19 exists. Denial can, for example, take the form of denying that something is a serious as other people make it out to be, or that certain preventative measures can make a difference.

 

For those earlier plagues, in general, large numbers of folk died, severe restrictions and punishments were put in place, and the plague was eventually snuffed out by these measures until the next one came along. Have a read of the document I posted - it's fascinating.

 

The common approach appears to be the prevention of more virus coming in from known affected areas, and the prevention of the virus from spreading within the area. Not much has changed.

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3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I didn't say that folk denied that Covid-19 exists. Denial can, for example, take the form of denying that something is a serious as other people make it out to be, or that certain preventative measures can make a difference.

 

For those earlier plagues, in general, large numbers of folk died, severe restrictions and punishments were put in place, and the plague was eventually snuffed out by these measures until the next one came along. Have a read of the document I posted - it's fascinating.

 

The common approach appears to be the prevention of more virus coming in from known affected areas, and the prevention of the virus from spreading within the area. Not much has changed.

 

Some things just come down to basic common sense don't they, some advice in specific circumstances will never change. Ten thousand years BC, FIRE!!!

 

Try dunking water on it Mr Flintstone.

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5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I didn't say that folk denied that Covid-19 exists. Denial can, for example, take the form of denying that something is a serious as other people make it out to be, or that certain preventative measures can make a difference.

 

For those earlier plagues, in general, large numbers of folk died, severe restrictions and punishments were put in place, and the plague was eventually snuffed out by these measures until the next one came along. Have a read of the document I posted - it's fascinating.

 

The common approach appears to be the prevention of more virus coming in from known affected areas, and the prevention of the virus from spreading within the area. Not much has changed.

 

Ok, thanks for explaining that deniers can be different things rather than denying the virus exists.

 

You did suggest that the deniers on here think we should not be taking any mitigations though and I don't think that's right.

 

I had already read about the 11 plagues of Edinburgh after searching for more info about Katryne Heriot.

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51 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That's not as outlandish as you'd think, in Edinburgh in the 1530's during a plague outbreak a man was hanged by the authorities for not reporting to them that his wife was dying from the plague and he'd went of to church, so they hanged him or poor Katryne Heriot who got the blame for bringing the plague into Edinburgh, well they drowned her.

 

But it wasn't all bad, in 1499 they banned everybody from Haddington & Peebles from entering Edinburgh, presumably because they were disease ridden, 500 years later and............. :whistling:

It’s gong that way lol 

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32 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yeh, that's where I got my info from, it's from the old burgh records of Edinburgh.

Some of the measures employed 500 years ago are similar to today, such as stay away from others for 12 days or you had to report if you had an infectious person in the household, limiting the movement of people, quarantining or banning goods from certain other towns/places.

 

Children being put in the stocks and scourged..................that's next week :laugh:

 

Looking back it's funny how much things change, they actually stay the same in many ways.

Really interesting history lesson here and as you say “ more things change the more they stay the same “ Hunan behaviour hasn’t really changed in all these years 

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6 minutes ago, graygo said:

You did suggest that the deniers on here think we should not be taking any mitigations though and I don't think that's right.

 

What it comes down to is this. We're seeing push-back including Illuminati like suggestions that wearing masks is just government spending time during a global crisis seeing what they can get people to do.

Now for arguments sake despite the fact I think that's absurd let's presume it were proven to be true somewhere along the line. That's for the future. In the meantime I don't care about that.

What I care about is that if the wearing of masks does indeed reduce the spread of the virus tolerating or even voicing complaints such as the above is intolerable.

I'm not going to feel inclined to humour such shit till I know for a fact it's not risking lives to refuse to wear a mask.

If in the future evidence comes to light it doesn't help which common  layman sense alone would suggest is ludicrous, then deal with it at that time. Right now try to keep that mouth shut as much as possible and covered. 

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Treat mask wearing as social etiquette. Like not tooting your horn when your stuck behind a slow moving funeral procession. You don't know the family. You don't know the dead guy. Driving slowly isn't going to bring the person back. So there's no reason for everybody else to be going 5mph while the cars make their way to the cemetery. 

 

But we do. Because it's the done thing. Tooting your horn at a funeral procession doesn't mark you as an individual who refuses to conform, or someone edgy who doesn't follow the rules. It just makes you out to be a bit of a dick. Same with not wearing a mask. 

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58 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That's not as outlandish as you'd think, in Edinburgh in the 1530's during a plague outbreak a man was hanged by the authorities for not reporting to them that his wife was dying from the plague and he'd went of to church, so they hanged him or poor Katryne Heriot who got the blame for bringing the plague into Edinburgh, well they drowned her.

 

But it wasn't all bad, in 1499 they banned everybody from Haddington & Peebles from entering Edinburgh, presumably because they were disease ridden, 500 years later and............. :whistling:

Fascinating stuff there , I didn’t think they would have had rules like that then . I assumed once you had the plague you were just burned ! 

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13 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Ok, thanks for explaining that deniers can be different things rather than denying the virus exists.

 

You did suggest that the deniers on here think we should not be taking any mitigations though and I don't think that's right.

 

I had already read about the 11 plagues of Edinburgh after searching for more info about Katryne Heriot.

 

I imagine that there will be the odd one or two who still feel that we should be going full "herd immunity" but you are right, I could have phrased that better to express the fact that some folk think we should be easing restrictions or taking a different path. It doesn't help though when you get someone posting, for example, "The pandemic is over", with all the implications that this would have.

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8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Fascinating stuff there , I didn’t think they would have had rules like that then . I assumed once you had the plague you were just burned ! 

 

Nah you were basically just left to die or if you could afford a 'doctor' who'd 'bleed' you or try some other weird remedy, which rarely ever worked, then when you were dead these guys came for you. :laugh:

 

 

Edited by Jambo-Jimbo
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23 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Nah you were basically just left to die or if you could afford a 'doctor' who'd 'bleed' you or try some other weird remedy, which rarely ever worked, then when you were dead these guys came for you. :laugh:

 

 

😂😂😂

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59 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

What it comes down to is this. We're seeing push-back including Illuminati like suggestions that wearing masks is just government spending time during a global crisis seeing what they can get people to do.

Now for arguments sake despite the fact I think that's absurd let's presume it were proven to be true somewhere along the line. That's for the future. In the meantime I don't care about that.

What I care about is that if the wearing of masks does indeed reduce the spread of the virus tolerating or even voicing complaints such as the above is intolerable.

I'm not going to feel inclined to humour such shit till I know for a fact it's not risking lives to refuse to wear a mask.

If in the future evidence comes to light it doesn't help which common  layman sense alone would suggest is ludicrous, then deal with it at that time. Right now try to keep that mouth shut as much as possible and covered. 

 

I've read that twice now and I'm still not sure whether you're having a go at me or not. For the record, I'm not and I don't think I ever have advocated not wearing a face covering in situations where we are told to wear them.

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59 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I imagine that there will be the odd one or two who still feel that we should be going full "herd immunity" but you are right, I could have phrased that better to express the fact that some folk think we should be easing restrictions or taking a different path. It doesn't help though when you get someone posting, for example, "The pandemic is over", with all the implications that this would have.

 

👍

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Dennis Reynolds
3 hours ago, graygo said:

 

The test can't differentiate between live and dead particles so gives positive and false positive results. 

 

I've actually given up trying to understand it all, between false negatives and false positives it looks like the results are 50% accurate at best and the advice is to assume you are infected regardless of the test result as nobody should be getting tested without symptoms anyway.

 

That's not a false positive though. The test will tell you if you have the virus. Whether its alive or dead, you either have it or have had it. The issue is infectivity.

 

 

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Dennis Reynolds
3 hours ago, jambo89 said:


Bit of a mind **** . 
 

I work offshore and require to be tested prior to any mobilisation to an oil rig. If I test positive, I won’t be getting onboard. 
 

I have wondered if the thousands of tests carried out each day (as I mentioned previously I’ve had 8 since June)  are skewing the numbers. 
 

There are thousands of workers getting tested each day, returning negatives, but not sure if that gets counted in the numbers!

 

I think it probably depends whether it's done privately or through the NHS framework. I've been tested a few times but it won't be on the daily numbers. 

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1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

I've read that twice now and I'm still not sure whether you're having a go at me or not. For the record, I'm not and I don't think I ever have advocated not wearing a face covering in situations where we are told to wear them.

 

I'm not having a go at you. I didn't think you were advocating ignoring government advice.

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32 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I'm not having a go at you. I didn't think you were advocating ignoring government advice.

 

No problem,  I misconstrued this part -

 


If in the future evidence comes to light it doesn't help which common  layman sense alone would suggest is ludicrous, then deal with it at that time. Right now try to keep that mouth shut as much as possible and covered. 

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1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

No problem,  I misconstrued this part -

 


If in the future evidence comes to light it doesn't help which common  layman sense alone would suggest is ludicrous, then deal with it at that time. Right now try to keep that mouth shut as much as possible and covered. 

 

That was referring to people who aren't qualified to comment on any aspect around the science of the coronavirus response. Which includes me. I dislike the masks probably even more than people in Britain do.

I'm in Oklahoma, a very hot and humid climate where wearing a mask can be very uncomfortable. In a nation where the government has actually being playing down the virus with a leader who encourages people to not wear them.

Yet still the scientists advise doing so which pretty much makes a farce out of claims that masks are nothing but governments trying to test what they can make people do. As if there weren't enough real shit to be focusing on during this unprecedented in living memory crisis.

I wear it because Trump is an idiot, the scientists are not. And if they say I can kill people if I don't wear one I will take that seriously and comply. I would do so even if I thought there was a chance they were wrong. Which I don't.

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11 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

Didn't realise it was as high as that hence why I said:

 

'I am also pretty sure the R rate has now gone past 1 rendering his article useless / unreliable'

 

Where are the figures / stats that indicate it is 1.7? would like to take a look at that as I'm a bit of a statistical nerd

I heard it on the news. 

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11 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

Didn't realise it was as high as that hence why I said:

 

'I am also pretty sure the R rate has now gone past 1 rendering his article useless / unreliable'

 

Where are the figures / stats that indicate it is 1.7? would like to take a look at that as I'm a bit of a statistical nerd

I read last week the official number for the UK was 1.2 and possibly as high as 1.4 in Scotland. 

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7 hours ago, LMc said:

 

I think it probably depends whether it's done privately or through the NHS framework. I've been tested a few times but it won't be on the daily numbers. 

 

Interesting.

 

It is done privately by TAC, so all those test's wouldn't be included in the daily numbers. Not that I think it would make much of a difference because there are lots of people getting tests that have no symptoms so would probably skew the numbers anyway.

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Samuel Camazzola
8 hours ago, Natural Orders said:

What’s so funny?

It would have had more credibility if the story was about Morph and Chas and they had a Twitter spat with Sooty. 

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21 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

Are Jedward Pro mask wearing or against it? The article isn't that clear if Jim Corr is against mask or Jedward. I'm on tenterhooks

i believe jim corr is against mask wearing

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11 hours ago, Natural Orders said:

 

When CoVid has been conquered, I hope I'm still around to witness you claiming you've had the majority of JKB on toast since April 2014...Bravo, extremely well played Sir...:brows:...:clap:

 

PS, don't give up, this is Brilliant.

Edited by OBE
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35 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I think there has been almost universal concern on this thread about the wider impacts of the Pandemic and one thing is the potential economic disaster that will fall on hundreds of thousand of families when the furlough scheme ends. Health and Well-being of the population could be far worse than the direct impact of Covid.

 

One way to resolve this is to extend furlough - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54090122

 

Unemployment figures out this morning show that the number of people on payrolls fell by 695,000 between March & August.

The next set of figures will dwarf that figure I fear, as furlough will be finished during the next period.

 

It makes sense to me that it's a better option to keep some form of furlough scheme going so as to keep as many people in a job as possible which then keeps more people in a job as people will still have money to spend. 

 

We'd have to borrow the money, but we'll probably have to borrow the money anyway to pay dole money to the millions that could lose their jobs in the next 6+ months, surely it's better to borrow to keep people in a job.

 

Just my unqualified opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Unemployment figures out this morning show that the number of people on payrolls fell by 695,000 between March & August.

The next set of figures will dwarf that figure I fear, as furlough will be finished during the next period.

 

It makes sense to me that it's a better option to keep some form of furlough scheme going so as to keep as many people in a job as possible which then keeps more people in a job as people will still have money to spend. 

 

We'd have to borrow the money, but we'll probably have to borrow the money anyway to pay dole money to the millions that could lose their jobs in the next 6+ months, surely it's better to borrow to keep people in a job.

 

Just my unqualified opinion.

 

The government surely has to keep businesses going that are still not allowed to open, such as music and theatre venues, but they don't seem willing.

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2 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

Interesting.

 

It is done privately by TAC, so all those test's wouldn't be included in the daily numbers. Not that I think it would make much of a difference because there are lots of people getting tests that have no symptoms so would probably skew the numbers anyway.

 

I would be amazed if TAC's figure are not fed in to the Scottish government's ECOSS system.

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38 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

When CoVid has been conquered, I hope I'm still around to witness you claiming you've had the majority of JKB on toast since April 2014...Bravo, extremely well played Sir...:brows:...:clap:

 

PS, don't give up, this is Brilliant.

 

Between face masks and the end of the world he/she has a lot of bites, me included. 😂

 

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If furlough continues it must be targetted and be paid at levels below the minimum wage. We can't have a situation where essential workers are getting paid less than lazy ***** who've treated cleaners etc. like shite all their lives.

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2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

If furlough continues it must be targetted and be paid at levels below the minimum wage. We can't have a situation where essential workers are getting paid less than lazy ***** who've treated cleaners etc. like shite all their lives.

 

But that's capitalism. 

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18 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I would be amazed if TAC's figure are not fed in to the Scottish government's ECOSS system.

 

I was only going on what @LMc said above. 

 

If you are correct there, then the numbers could be way off and the R rate might be even higher. 

 

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Just now, jambo89 said:

 

I was only going on what @LMc said above. 

 

If you are correct there, then the numbers could be way off and the R rate might be even higher. 

 

 

Not sure what you mean by the numbers being off and the R rate being higher if I'm right, if I'm right then the figures being published will be correct.

 

By the way, there is no way that TAC's testing figures are not being counted.

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No doubt the government has kept a contingency back to reintroduce furlough if it really needs to.   But they'll try to limit the scale of it as much as possible.   It wouldn't surprise me at all if they're content to see an initial tranche of redundancies and other job losses occur which will be jobs lost to the employment market that they don't have to support with a reinstated furlough scheme.    

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1 hour ago, jambo89 said:

Are Jedward Pro mask wearing or against it? The article isn't that clear if Jim Corr is against mask or Jedward. I'm on tenterhooks

im the same

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2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Not sure what you mean by the numbers being off and the R rate being higher if I'm right, if I'm right then the figures being published will be correct.

 

By the way, there is no way that TAC's testing figures are not being counted.

 

The numbers would be off because there will be 3000-4000 people being needlessly tested each day. 

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41 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The government surely has to keep businesses going that are still not allowed to open, such as music and theatre venues, but they don't seem willing.

Or it could open the businesses?

Just a thought!

Scots unemployment now at 4.6 %

Its going to rise even further and Fulough is pointless unless the jobs are kept once it ends- otherwise its just enhanced dole money.

Extend furlough BUT the employer commits to keeping any workers in receipt of it for a min 12 months after it ends or the money needs repaid + interest

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Weekly deaths from this in the UK are below 100 for the first time since March and overall deaths are 1403 below the five year average. 

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )
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