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1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Whether it was the cause of death or not? 

 

Good point, if it's not the cause of death then it goes in the positive cases pile and not the deaths pile.

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1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

GPS seem to be taking the easy option on this, up and down this set of islands. Disgraceful! 

 

 

There was a story a while back that hospitals get paid more for a Covid related death, might have been in the States though.

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Enzo Chiefo
32 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Try the other way about. Scotland counts every death with covid is mentioned. 4100, 2500 is when they have tested positive. 

Tested positive deaths

42000 England 

2500 Scotland 

 

 

Mentioned on death certificate 

(The mibbe aye, mibbe Naw) 

60000+ England

4000+ Scotland

England count every death of an ex- Covid patient as Covid related. Grossly over inflatimg the actual figures , for what motivr, I don't know...but probably to instill a sense of fear in the proletariat, to ensure their compliance . In Scotland it is a far more reasonable measure imo; within 28 days. You can't recover from Covid in England. 

 

At any rate, both in Scotland and rUK, even if cases appear to be rising , hospitalisations and deaths are not  which points to a fizxling out of the virus as it fights to retain a relevance. That is good news but don't hold your breath waiting for either Sturgeon or Johnson to admit that though. 

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Francis Albert

The whole Scotland vs England thing is ridiculous. Reminds me of when a Scotland win in what was effectively a friendly at Wembley counted more than a World Cup win. Both countries have among the highest death rates per head in the world and in the top three in Europe. The differences are insignificant given differences in methods of reporting deaths and other factors - population density, racial diversity etc.

 

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Mental. 

 

I’ll defo be a drug death at some point 👌

 


I guess question is whether it was caused by Covid or 20 fags, 10pints and cakes galore a day or whatever🤷🏻‍♂️. No system is perfect, I suppose, do wish they would use the same one.

 

Anyway is it Scotland it England who counts it as Covid death if ever tested positive. Seymour gave me impression other way about?
 

Slightly confused.

 

 

Seymour was right. It is England.

Edited by Francis Albert
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JudyJudyJudy
3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

England count every death of an ex- Covid patient as Covid related. Grossly over inflatimg the actual figures , for what motivr, I don't know...but probably to instill a sense of fear in the proletariat, to ensure their compliance . In Scotland it is a far more reasonable measure imo; within 28 days. You can't recover from Covid in England. 

 

At any rate, both in Scotland and rUK, even if cases appear to be rising , hospitalisations and deaths are not  which points to a fizxling out of the virus as it fights to retain a relevance. That is good news but don't hold your breath waiting for either Sturgeon or Johnson to admit that though. 

Good posting 

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The Real Maroonblood
6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Good posting 

James off topic but  check the Edinburgh Housing thread.

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JudyJudyJudy
4 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

James off topic but  check the Edinburgh Housing thread.

Ok will do. 

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JudyJudyJudy
18 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

James off topic but  check the Edinburgh Housing thread.

Cheers for that . Really good to see he got a flat  and is  doing great. 

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The Real Maroonblood
8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Cheers for that . Really good to see he got a flat  and is  doing great. 

No problem. 

You deserve credit for helping him. 

👍

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JudyJudyJudy
1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

No problem. 

You deserve credit for helping him. 

👍

Cheers

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5 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Whether it was the cause of death or not? 


this, how many of these deaths had another factor (underlying illness)

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Jambo-Jimbo

Was only a matter of time before discarded face masks & gloves became a problem in the UK, didn't think it would have been so soon though.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-disposable-face-masks-creating-new-plastic-pollution-crisis-experts-warn-12045350

 

Even out here in the country, in the half mile between my house and the co-op, I today have seen 3 disposable face masks and one glove laying on either the pavement or roads, in fairness they may have fallen out of some folks' pocket or bag.  Can see this being a massive issue going forwards, because most of these masks will still be around polluting the Earth long after Covid is just a distant memory.

 

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Seymour M Hersh
On 27/07/2020 at 15:22, frankblack said:

On a 21 bus heading to Crewe Toll this morning and generally most wearing masks but at least 10 had the mask under their nose!

 

Its not rocket science learning how to wear a mask properly!!!

 

A nurse at the ERI told a friend of mine that you are meant to wear it below the nose. It seems they can't even agree on how to wear the face nappy. 

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Francis Albert
On 24/07/2020 at 13:10, Taffin said:

I've decided to switch to home deliveries from now on now that the risk has increased such that it necessitates mask wearing. Got a big shop in yesterday while it was still safe.

 

 

How has the risk increased? That certainly isn't the reason for compulsory masks, whatever exactly the reason is.

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Governor Tarkin
6 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

A nurse at the ERI told a friend of mine that you are meant to wear it below the nose. It seems they can't even agree on how to wear the face nappy. 

 

It's confusing.

 

Sitting outside one boozer in town last night we had to put on a mask to go inside to use the toilet, but customers sitting inside could go to the toilet without a mask. 

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49 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

How has the risk increased? That certainly isn't the reason for compulsory masks, whatever exactly the reason is.

 

I was being facetious...as in that surely if it was safe to go to the supermarket before without one, then now that you need to wear one it must be because there was now more risk.

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The Real Maroonblood
1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Was only a matter of time before discarded face masks & gloves became a problem in the UK, didn't think it would have been so soon though.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-disposable-face-masks-creating-new-plastic-pollution-crisis-experts-warn-12045350

 

Even out here in the country, in the half mile between my house and the co-op, I today have seen 3 disposable face masks and one glove laying on either the pavement or roads, in fairness they may have fallen out of some folks' pocket or bag.  Can see this being a massive issue going forwards, because most of these masks will still be around polluting the Earth long after Covid is just a distant memory.

 

This.

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2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Was only a matter of time before discarded face masks & gloves became a problem in the UK, didn't think it would have been so soon though.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-disposable-face-masks-creating-new-plastic-pollution-crisis-experts-warn-12045350

 

Even out here in the country, in the half mile between my house and the co-op, I today have seen 3 disposable face masks and one glove laying on either the pavement or roads, in fairness they may have fallen out of some folks' pocket or bag.  Can see this being a massive issue going forwards, because most of these masks will still be around polluting the Earth long after Covid is just a distant memory.

 

It is funny how the wheels of capitalism didnt grind to a halt to protect the planet its biodiversity and all the things which make it liveable for humans.

The crisis point has been and gone .

 

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Governor Tarkin
3 minutes ago, jake said:

It is funny how the wheels of capitalism didnt grind to a halt to protect the planet its biodiversity and all the things which make it liveable for humans.

 

 

They will have to at some point, jake.

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3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It's confusing.

 

Sitting outside one boozer in town last night we had to put on a mask to go inside to use the toilet, but customers sitting inside could go to the toilet without a mask. 

It’s farcical. They are making it up as they go along 

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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

I was being facetious...as in that surely if it was safe to go to the supermarket before without one, then now that you need to wear one it must be because there was now more risk.

Sorry for being abstruse or rather just thick!. I thought that might be your point. It is absurd that we go through the peak of the pandemic without face masks but now are compelled to wear them when infection rates are a small fraction of what they were. And when there is no hard evidence face masks help to stop the spread (such as it now is) even if worn  correctly (disposable after one wearing or washed at a high temperature after  each  wearing for example) - which they very very rarely are. 

The willingness of most of the population to accept this absurdity without question is deeply disturbing.

Edited by Francis Albert
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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It's confusing.

 

Sitting outside one boozer in town last night we had to put on a mask to go inside to use the toilet, but customers sitting inside could go to the toilet without a mask. 

In a local cafe you can sit inside for as long as you like without a mask or much social distancing.. Pop in for 30 seconds to buy a baguette and you have to wear one.

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N Lincs Jambo

Saw an online article from one of the main papers (might have been the Independent - not sure tbh) attacking the response of the US government now that 5,000,000 Americans have tested positive for the virus. The US death toll stands at 161,000. 
 

Do the maths: 161,000 out of 5,000,000 is a death rate of 0.0322% or a survival rate of 99.9678%. Seems the virus isn’t quite as deadly as was once feared.

 

Mask wearing 4 months and a day after lockdown was introduced? Do me a favour!

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3 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

Saw an online article from one of the main papers (might have been the Independent - not sure tbh) attacking the response of the US government now that 5,000,000 Americans have tested positive for the virus. The US death toll stands at 161,000. 
 

Do the maths: 161,000 out of 5,000,000 is a death rate of 0.0322% or a survival rate of 99.9678%. Seems the virus isn’t quite as deadly as was once feared.

 

Mask wearing 4 months and a day after lockdown was introduced? Do me a favour!

your maths is wrong 161,000 out of 5,000,000 is 3.2% not 0.032% as you state

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Nucky Thompson
5 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

your maths is wrong 161,000 out of 5,000,000 is 3.2% not 0.032% as you state

Indeed, but they reckon the true figure of Americans who have contracted the virus is 50,000,000

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Francis Albert
12 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

Saw an online article from one of the main papers (might have been the Independent - not sure tbh) attacking the response of the US government now that 5,000,000 Americans have tested positive for the virus. The US death toll stands at 161,000. 
 

Do the maths: 161,000 out of 5,000,000 is a death rate of 0.0322% or a survival rate of 99.9678%. Seems the virus isn’t quite as deadly as was once feared.

 

Mask wearing 4 months and a day after lockdown was introduced? Do me a favour!

Were all deaths tested? If not your sum.is meaningless. The death rate of those infected seems to be about 0.1% on latest estimates...not as small as 0.032% but much lower than 3.2%.

Edited by Francis Albert
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Салатные палочки
30 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Sorry for being abstruse or rather just thick!. I thought that might be your point. It is absurd that we go through the peak of the pandemic without face masks but now are compelled to wear them when infection rates are a small fraction of what they were. And when there is no hard evidence face masks help to stop the spread (such as it now is) even if worn  correctly (disposable after one wearing or washed at a high temperature after  each  wearing for example) - which they very very rarely are. 

The willingness of most of the population to accept this absurdity without question is deeply disturbing.

 

Feels like they are just pushing us to see how far they can go and it looks like it's working. 

 

As someone said to me a while back, if the government said to us we need to crawl on our hands and knees as the virus is only contagious above 3ft then people would do it. 

 

It's quite a depressing thought that life will never be the same again as our freedom is slowly eradicated with every passing week. 

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The Real Maroonblood
9 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

Feels like they are just pushing us to see how far they can go and it looks like it's working. 

 

As someone said to me a while back, if the government said to us we need to crawl on our hands and knees as the virus is only contagious above 3ft then people would do it. 

 

It's quite a depressing thought that life will never be the same again as our freedom is slowly eradicated with every passing week. 

Hopefully the pubs will stay open.

Edited by The Real Maroonblood
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N Lincs Jambo
1 hour ago, milky_26 said:

your maths is wrong 161,000 out of 5,000,000 is 3.2% not 0.032% as you state


You are quite correct, I forgot to multiply by 100 to get the percentage. However even at 3.2% this is still far far lower than the Ferguson models from Imperial College London which were used by governments worldwide to justify lockdown. 

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N Lincs Jambo
1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Were all deaths tested? If not your sum.is meaningless. The death rate of those infected seems to be about 0.1% on latest estimates...not as small as 0.032% but much lower than 3.2%.


I would argue that virtually all the figures are meaningless. The PCR tests being used don’t actually test for a virus but for antibodies. The guy who invented the test back in the 80s, a Nobel prize winner has said not to use this test for Covid 19 as it’s not fit for that purpose. Additionally the figures for deaths down to Covid 19 include people who died “having tested positive for Covid 19” or who “died with Covid 19”. From the NHS’s own website last month, their figures showed that of the 45K+ Covid deaths in the UK only 1334 actually died OF Covid 19, ie they had no other cause of death, no other comorbidity.

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Francis Albert

Observer leads today on demands that those quarantined for 14 days  after visiting France should be compensated by being given in effect  two weeks  paid leave ... paid by the Government ie the rest of us. The world is going mad. If you choose to holiday abroad at this time you know the risks. If you can afford to make that choice why should others compensate you If you make a wrong choice?

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Francis Albert
30 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:


I would argue that virtually all the figures are meaningless. The PCR tests being used don’t actually test for a virus but for antibodies. The guy who invented the test back in the 80s, a Nobel prize winner has said not to use this test for Covid 19 as it’s not fit for that purpose. Additionally the figures for deaths down to Covid 19 include people who died “having tested positive for Covid 19” or who “died with Covid 19”. From the NHS’s own website last month, their figures showed that of the 45K+ Covid deaths in the UK only 1334 actually died OF Covid 19, ie they had no other cause of death, no other comorbidity.

Worse the numbers of Covid19 deaths include those who are just suspected of having Covid19 e.g. because they were in a care home where it was present and therefore it was mentioned on the death certificate. 

And of course in England if you were ever tested positive for Covid 19 then whenever you die and whatever you die of you will be a Covid19 death.

Six months into this there is no excuse for this idiocy. Except perhaps to keep us scared and unquestioningly obedient.

Edited by Francis Albert
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N Lincs Jambo
27 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Worse the numbers of Covid19 deaths include those who are just suspected of having Covid19 e.g. because they were in a care home where it was present and therefore it was mentioned on the death certificate. 

And of course in England if you were ever tested positive for Covid 19 then whenever you die and whatever you die of you will be a Covid19 death.

Six months into this there is no excuse for this idiocy. Except perhaps to keep us scared and unquestioningly obedient.


Your last sentence for me FA sums it up in a nutshell.

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, N Lincs Jambo said:


You are quite correct, I forgot to multiply by 100 to get the percentage. However even at 3.2% this is still far far lower than the Ferguson models from Imperial College London which were used by governments worldwide to justify lockdown. 

 

I'd presume that model, was based in part upon, what information was coming out of China, and as China was the only source information at that time, and their mortality rate IIRC was reported as anything between 1% to 3%, then you can see where Imperial College London got their 3.2% from.

 

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59 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Observer leads today on demands that those quarantined for 14 days  after visiting France should be compensated by being given in effect  two weeks  paid leave ... paid by the Government ie the rest of us. The world is going mad. If you choose to holiday abroad at this time you know the risks. If you can afford to make that choice why should others compensate you If you make a wrong choice?

 

It must be a slow news day if that is the best they can put out in their newspaper.

 

Completely ridiculous proposal that is never going to happen.

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Getting on for 4 weeks without a confirmed Covid-19 death in Scotland. 👍

 

Scottish numbers: 9 August 2020

  • 48 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 1.3% of newly tested individuals.
  • 0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends).
  • 3 people were in intensive care last night with confirmed COVID-19.
  • 261 people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19.
  • 12,291 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results.
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JudyJudyJudy
1 hour ago, graygo said:

Getting on for 4 weeks without a confirmed Covid-19 death in Scotland. 👍

 

Scottish numbers: 9 August 2020

  • 48 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 1.3% of newly tested individuals.
  • 0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends).
  • 3 people were in intensive care last night with confirmed COVID-19.
  • 261 people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19.
  • 12,291 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results.

👍👍

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10 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

To be fair that's because there was a fire alarm according to the article.

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Now, wait for this!

 

We can lie on the beach for as many hours as we choose to, but, when you leave the beach, you have to wear a mask on the promenade.  🤷🏿‍♂️

 

It’s like :wtf:

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2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

And I bet your old Italian friends are wearing ultra tight masks when they do so!

Skin tight.

 

And full of budgies.

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13 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

To be fair that's because there was a fire alarm according to the article.

 

I doubt Covid would have taken that into consideration. 

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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

It must be a slow news day if that is the best they can put out in their newspaper.

 

Completely ridiculous proposal that is never going to happen.

Wouldn't be so sure. Ridiculous seems to.be the new normal (as they say, ridiculously!)

Edited by Francis Albert
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Francis Albert
4 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I'd presume that model, was based in part upon, what information was coming out of China, and as China was the only source information at that time, and their mortality rate IIRC was reported as anything between 1% to 3%, then you can see where Imperial College London got their 3.2% from.

 

There was no reliable information coming out of China indeed the opposite ... politically driven lies and suppression of the facts swallowed whole by the WHO  -  yet the experts chose to.lockdown the world economy on the basis of a wild overestimate of the mortality rate.

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On 26/07/2020 at 16:27, 3fingersreid said:

On the 22 bus as I type , 12 on the top deck , 6 people wearing a mask of which I’m 1 and hating to wear it but will , 6 not. 
Now it could be the other 6 have health issues but what’s the ****ing point in making a law when it’s not being adhered too ? 
 

It appears nobody's listening. 

Been on the bus a couple of times last week and the wife and me appeared to be the only people adhering to the rule on the bottom deck out of about ten passengers. 

The week before last we were going home on the North Berwick bus was packed with folk going to the beach, hardly a face mask in sight. 

It was quite scary actually. 

The only suggestion I can make is that the drivers do not open the door at stops until everyone has their mask on. 

 

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Francis Albert
2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It appears nobody's listening. 

Been on the bus a couple of times last week and the wife and me appeared to be the only people adhering to the rule on the bottom deck out of about ten passengers. 

The week before last we were going home on the North Berwick bus was packed with folk going to the beach, hardly a face mask in sight. 

It was quite scary actually. 

The only suggestion I can make is that the drivers do not open the door at stops until everyone has their mask on. 

 

Clearly there are enormous local differences. Down here in our part of Englandshire there has been near 100% obedience to the rules on masks on public transport  and shops  (although very little adherence on the advice of how they should be used)

Which given that there is no real evidence that mask wearing makes any difference is for me a double edged sword demonstrating a worrying willingness of people to.simply do what they are told.

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7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Sorry for being abstruse or rather just thick!. I thought that might be your point. It is absurd that we go through the peak of the pandemic without face masks but now are compelled to wear them when infection rates are a small fraction of what they were. And when there is no hard evidence face masks help to stop the spread (such as it now is) even if worn  correctly (disposable after one wearing or washed at a high temperature after  each  wearing for example) - which they very very rarely are. 

The willingness of most of the population to accept this absurdity without question is deeply disturbing.

They should bring in spot fines for people who refuse to wear face masks on buses or in enclosed spaces. 

100 quid first offence, 1000 quid second and subsequent offences. 

Get the cops to spend a couple of days having a blitz on culprits. 

The same rules should be applied to folk messing up beaches and country roads with their rubbish. 

 

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