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Geoff Kilpatrick
55 minutes ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

 

It's geographically advantaged, was quicker to react than most  in closing it's borders and crucially is one of the least densely populated countries on the planet

 

Not really a comparable case study to heavily dense Asian nations 

The key point was number 2, not the masks. Along with the number of tests done as well. The latter is why America is shithouse despite now adopting masks.

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Jambof3tornado
6 hours ago, Jammy T said:


But increases the chance of you getting it as it subconsciously encourages you to touch your face more to fix it, move it etc

 

I agree with the public pressure point.

We would be too busy clapping our team to be messing about with face covering adjustments.

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Jambo, Goodbye
27 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The key point was number 2, not the masks. Along with the number of tests done as well. The latter is why America is shithouse despite now adopting masks.

And the key point in asia is a different reason. I was talking about asia specifically. I didn't include Oz cos they've done well for different reasons

 

The countries failing have failed at both your point and mine imo

Edited by Jambo, Goodbye
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Jambo, Goodbye
38 minutes ago, Smithee said:

All countries face different challenges, and I'm certainly not putting down anyone else, but only 4 deaths out of 7.4 million with a population density of 6,300 people per square kilometre is spectacularly well done, especially given their geographical location. 

For comparison, the most densely populated city in australia is Sydney with 1,900 people per square km by the way.

 

True but I'm specifically talking about Asia who in some places were not as fast to close their borders as australia but are still head and shoulders above the west. And people on here still knocking one of the obvious differences.

 

Also I said australia couldn't be compared in response to its entire population being used. Sydney is 5m so it becomes a more realistic point to make if we're going to compare it to heavily densely populated places like Hong Kong. I think its fair for me to reject australia being compared to Korea, for example 

Edited by Jambo, Goodbye
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Unknown user
21 minutes ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

 

True but I'm specifically talking about Asia who in some places were not as fast to close their borders as australia but are still head and shoulders above the west. And people on here still knocking one of the obvious differences.

 

Also I said australia couldn't be compared in response to its entire population being used. Sydney is 5m so it becomes a more realistic point to make if we're going to compare it to heavily densely populated places like Hong Kong. I think its fair for me to reject australia being compared to Korea, for example 

I don't disagree 👍

 

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on why Australia's been so successful from those who know more on the subject too.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
1 minute ago, Smithee said:

I don't disagree 👍

 

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on why Australia's been so successful from those who know more on the subject too.

That's an easy threefold answer. Making returnees from overseas self-isolate for 14 days and then tightening that to quarantine in hotels, mass testing, tracing and isolating and social distance compliance. We didn't lockdown to the extent that Europe did but we didn't need to because of that compliance.

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hughesie27

Schools won't be back till August in Scotland. This seems pretty obvious.

 

Some rumours that we will see a Gov (Scotland) plan announced this week including gatherings of up to 4 people from outside your house if you stay outdoors and socially distance.

 

Also, from August indoor spectator sports will be allowed including football so long as spectators socially distance with a maximum number (figure not released) people allowed to attend.

 

Whether Scottish football embraces that or not is another thing. Difficult thing to implement when you have sold season tickets.

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Jambo, Goodbye
16 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

That's an easy threefold answer. Making returnees from overseas self-isolate for 14 days and then tightening that to quarantine in hotels, mass testing, tracing and isolating and social distance compliance. We didn't lockdown to the extent that Europe did but we didn't need to because of that compliance.

 

Australia has done fantastic. 

 

No lockdown in korea either. After the explosion of cases in Daegu it was very quickly sorted out. We had that because we were too slow to close our borders, we got away with it though

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24 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Schools won't be back till August in Scotland. This seems pretty obvious.

 

Some rumours that we will see a Gov (Scotland) plan announced this week including gatherings of up to 4 people from outside your house if you stay outdoors and socially distance.

 

Also, from August indoor spectator sports will be allowed including football so long as spectators socially distance with a maximum number (figure not released) people allowed to attend.

 

Whether Scottish football embraces that or not is another thing. Difficult thing to implement when you have sold season tickets.

Is football classed as indoor. Yes there's a stadium, but, COME ON!

 

 

 

Not shouting at you, btw.

 

 

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GorgieFifeLife
5 hours ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

 

South Korea is incredibly densely populated yet has had 11,000 cases and only 262 deaths. 

Taiwan is practically unscathed. 

Throw in Hong Kong too

 

It's almost as if the mask wearing countries are doing better...

 

Anyone still scoffing at masks are thick as mince 

Anybody who thinks masks are the main reason for this is thick as mince.

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10 hours ago, CJGJ said:

Waste of time wearing one

 

When this started all the health officials agreed they were not nec..purely due to social pressure not medical advice have we found people starting to wear them.

Not for me but if it helps others feel better than no problem.

 

Still it'll ensure I get my 2 metres space from others when out and about by not wearing one.

Aye, they said that about care homes anaw.

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The Internet
8 hours ago, Dagger Is Back said:

Fascinating info posted by graygo above. None of us would be surprised at mistakes having been made so time will tell.

 

Not really fascinating. Variations of these things were scuttling around social media at the start of all this, I posted about it here in about the middle of March. I like this one because it's got some stuff right like blood clots being found in covid patients and some other legit medical info (although mostly exaggerated) but then throws in the paragraph about the Mexican family who cured themselves with the old lemon honey hot water aspirin magic :lol: it's a mixture of half-truths (the minimal 'true' parts are already widely known) and just outright dangerous lies. 

 

https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/fact-check/259190-aspirin-lemon-juice-honey-cures-coronavirus

 

https://factcheck.afp.com/who-warns-against-self-medicating-covid-19-aspirin-lemon-juice-and-honey-remedy

 

https://www.boomlive.in/fake-news/is-thrombosis-the-leading-cause-of-covid-19-deaths-a-factcheck-7977

 

https://fullfact.org/online/thrombosis-covid-19/

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hughesie27
1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Is football classed as indoor. Yes there's a stadium, but, COME ON!

 

 

 

Not shouting at you, btw.

 

 

Actually the indoor was my wording. Actually just meant general spectator sports.

 

Non contact socially distanced training to be allowed from 8th June.

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Maybe if women didn't work, men could go back to work and weans didn't need pushed back to school to be minded, just for the sake of the economy.

Well it worked when other killer viruses were about. 😀

Edited by ri Alban
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Private care homes still sending staff to work in more than one care home. I hope the inquiry doesn't miss the owners/management of these places.

Edited by ri Alban
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Governor Tarkin
12 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That cuts both ways old son. I just tolerate the nonsense you spout about politics.  I'm old school so I don't feel the need for safe spaces around different views so don't head for the ignore button. I'll settle for judging a country's economy on what it spends and earns along with the debt to GDP ratio, size of the public sector etc. I'm sure lenders across the world and the IMF agree with me on that . I do appreciate, however, that some may prefer woolly ideas like "hope", "potential", "fairness" and the worst of all "progressive", whatever the @#$% that means, in judging a country's economic abilities. Each to their own.  I'm done here.

 

Just had your arse handed to you there, pfk.

 

Hoping for a similarly scathing comeback. 👍

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4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I no exactly how it works. I'm still not putting it in my body, until it's proven. 

Neither would I.

 

That’s not what I was saying and I can’t see anyone arguing for distributing vaccines until the science say it’s okay. 
 

You, or any other Anti-Vaxxer, should not be allowed to impose your beliefs on others. 

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1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Maybe if women didn't work, men could go back to work and weans didn't need pushed back to school to be minded, just for the sake of the economy.

Well it worked when other killer viruses were about. 😀

 

Can the women go back to work if they like? In some households, and I know this will blow your mind, the woman is the higher earner! 

 

Not this one tho, we're traditional. 

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19 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

Neither would I.

 

That’s not what I was saying and I can’t see anyone arguing for distributing vaccines until the science say it’s okay. 
 

You, or any other Anti-Vaxxer, should not be allowed to impose your beliefs on others. 

Other anti vaxxer. I'm not an anti vaxxer or will I ever tell anyone what to do. 

As I've said, I'll wait til it's fully proven itself.

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The Real Maroonblood
Just now, ri Alban said:

Other anti vaxxer. I'm not an anti vaxxer or will I ever tell anyone what to do. 

As I've said, I'll wait til it's fully proven itself.

Just like computer software updates.

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1 minute ago, The Brow said:

 

Can the women go back to work if they like? In some households, and I know this will blow your mind, the woman is the higher earner! 

 

Not this one tho, we're traditional. 

It was a wee joke. But with a very relevant difference in the way we live now to 1918 and other times in virus pandemic history.

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1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Just had your arse handed to you there, pfk.

 

Hoping for a similarly scathing comeback. 👍

How do? You do realise the UK had a national debt of around £2t pre virus, closing in on 100% of UK GDP.  Or are Scotland no allowed to borrow.

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4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

It was a wee joke. But with a very relevant difference in the way we live now to 1918 and other times in virus pandemic history.

 

aye I know, was pulling your leg. 

 

I also agree with the vaccine chat - I'll not be getting it until its fully tested and working - **** being a guinea pig for a rashly developed vaccine. 

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Jambo, Goodbye
2 hours ago, GorgieFifeLife said:

Anybody who thinks masks are the main reason for this is thick as mince.

 

No, just observant. 

 

But do tell me why you think Korea is destroying most of the world when it comes to containing the virus? 

 

Also,  who said it was the "main reason"? If you need to twist what I said,  then you're not really arguing from a credible point of view to begin with. 

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33 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

Neither would I.

 

That’s not what I was saying and I can’t see anyone arguing for distributing vaccines until the science say it’s okay. 
 

You, or any other Anti-Vaxxer, should not be allowed to impose your beliefs on others. 

 

So to sum up:

 

You - Vaccinations should be mandatory because people have a right not to catch viruses

 

Me and riAlban - People shouldn't be compelled to do things to their body they don't want to

 

You - You shouldn't be allowed to impose your views on others

 

Who's the one imposing their views on others there? Neither of us have at any stage said we're against vaccinations, receiving them ourselves once proven or suggesting anyone else shouldn't have them. 

 

Edited by Taffin
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Geoff Kilpatrick
2 minutes ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

 

No, just observant. 

 

But do tell me why you think Korea is destroying most of the world when it comes to containing the virus? 

 

Also,  who said it was the "main reason"? If you need to twist what I said,  then you're not really arguing from a credible point of view to begin with. 

Because Korea did more testing, that's why. Masks are a hangover from SARS there.

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GorgieFifeLife
9 minutes ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

 

No, just observant. 

 

But do tell me why you think Korea is destroying most of the world when it comes to containing the virus? 

 

Also,  who said it was the "main reason"? If you need to twist what I said,  then you're not really arguing from a credible point of view to begin with. 

Not twisting anything.  Masks are not the reason for the lower death rates in these countries which you were clearly implying.  Where did I say Korea was destroying the world?  You ended your post by saying people were thick as mince if they didn't believe masks were effective.  This is funny as the bulk of scientific evidence says they are not effective.  

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Governor Tarkin
19 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

How do? You do realise the UK had a national debt of around £2t pre virus, closing in on 100% of UK GDP.  Or are Scotland no allowed to borrow.

 

I don't give a shit. Bore someone else with your seperatist republican agenda.

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manaliveits105
57 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Nicola Sturgeon is meant to give us some form of insight to easing of restrictions, this week. Hopefully, it’s something a bit more concrete than the last view of how we ease restrictions. I fully appreciate the need to ease restriction in a controlled and managed manner, however, it needs to start to happen. 

 

Peoples approach is becoming incredibly flexible now and business are beginning top take things into their own hand. I feel this is down to the messaging not being right combined with easing in England. Scotland in someways will have had the most severe lockdown in the UK with extent of restrictions and likely time. A large part of that is due to the governments inability to get test and tracing or the care home situation in hand. .

 

The Scottish govt has handled things better than the UK but we have largely seen the same failings and I do feel the scrutiny on the Scottish Govt is lacking. People might think they are discussing but majority are just in the SNP Good/Bad argument. Questions should be asked about the handling of this when things calm down, I don’t doubt their intentions but I’m increasingly doubting their competence. 

 

There are numerous things that could return to normal which are incredibly low risk with the implementation of social distancing. It needs to start happening very soon. The level of lockdown is beginning to increasingly feel like a sledge hammer to smash a nut, whilst more appropriate controls should have been developed to minimise the damage lockdown create. Hopefully I’m pleasantly surprised on Tuesday but I do fear we will continue facing excessive restriction due to failings target the appropriate areas.

 

 

 

 

Good points and although r rate is crucial here  if Nicky gets out of sync with HMRC bail outs for instance Scottish businesses wont cope 

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Weakened Offender
4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I don't give a shit. Bore someone else with your seperatist republican agenda.

 

There's they annoying facts again though 😁

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Dagger Is Back
2 hours ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

Not really fascinating. Variations of these things were scuttling around social media at the start of all this, I posted about it here in about the middle of March. I like this one because it's got some stuff right like blood clots being found in covid patients and some other legit medical info (although mostly exaggerated) but then throws in the paragraph about the Mexican family who cured themselves with the old lemon honey hot water aspirin magic :lol: it's a mixture of half-truths (the minimal 'true' parts are already widely known) and just outright dangerous lies. 

 

https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/fact-check/259190-aspirin-lemon-juice-honey-cures-coronavirus

 

https://factcheck.afp.com/who-warns-against-self-medicating-covid-19-aspirin-lemon-juice-and-honey-remedy

 

https://www.boomlive.in/fake-news/is-thrombosis-the-leading-cause-of-covid-19-deaths-a-factcheck-7977

 

https://fullfact.org/online/thrombosis-covid-19/


Thanks for the info. 

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Governor Tarkin
1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

There's they annoying facts again though 😁

 

The facts dont annoy me, WO. 👍

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The Real Maroonblood
6 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I don't give a shit. Bore someone else with your seperatist republican agenda.

Guid banter china.

:P

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13 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

This attitude (not you) gets on my tits, as does the jammie wearer schtick...thankfully most of the spangles who parrot this shite are now talking about hearts elsewhere...

 

 

Or calling someone a 'scarfer'. Used by wannabe casuals down the generations.

Guilty, I go to the football to watch the game, not dance on the pavement outside.

:cornette:

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AlimOzturk

If there is not some significant easing of restrictions tomorrow then I can see folk losing patience and doing there own thing. As I said earlier the risk of infection now is so small that this lockdown is now a waste of time and resources. I am not suggesting we suddenly just open the country in one big swoop but if a coherent plan that folk can buy into isn't produced then i feel folk will just totally ignore any advice. Difficult watching other countries and especially england getting their freedoms back whilst we sit here still waiting.

 

Sturgeon has one chance to get this right, fail and she risks losing all the goodwill she has bought.

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Jambo, Goodbye
27 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Because Korea did more testing, that's why. Masks are a hangover from SARS there.

 

Testing played a huge role absolutely. That and tracing are the two i'd say were the main components. But they were only testing people with symptoms to begin with and this was long after we had the virus. Daegu was well contained (eventually) because people were taking a physical precaution to stop it spreading. 

 

It's aided Asia as a whole significantly. 

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20 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I don't give a shit. Bore someone else with your seperatist republican agenda.

You brought it up. Ya fecking bore.

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Governor Tarkin
2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You brought it up. Ya fecking bore.

 

No I didn't. 

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2 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Just had your arse handed to you there, pfk.

 

Hoping for a similarly scathing comeback. 👍

Hello :wavey: But hey, my bad, I thought I was on the politics thread. 👍

Edited by ri Alban
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Shanks said no

Mrs F was wittering on about a shop on Corstorphine High St that is making them

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Jambo, Goodbye
36 minutes ago, GorgieFifeLife said:

Not twisting anything.  Masks are not the reason for the lower death rates in these countries which you were clearly implying.  Where did I say Korea was destroying the world?  You ended your post by saying people were thick as mince if they didn't believe masks were effective.  This is funny as the bulk of scientific evidence says they are not effective.  

 

Three things man...

 

1. You did twist what i said. I didn't md mention being the main reason. That would be a different thing to say, ergo, you twisted what i said.

Healthier countries are likely having lower death rates. But lowering the ability to spread it plays a big part. 

 

2. I didn't accuse you of saying korea destroyed the world. I was using a metaphor 🙄

People got infected here very quickly but it was short lived. 

 

3. Yes masks are ineffective at stopping people inhaling the virus,  but they are extremely effective at two other things. First they stop people coughing and sneezing out in the open. 

Second they stop you touching your face the reported 23 times an hour.  

 

Those two benefits can possibly make the world of difference in a densely packed city/country. 

 

You never answered my question btw 😀

Edited by Jambo, Goodbye
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42 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

So to sum up:

 

You - Vaccinations should be mandatory because people have a right not to catch viruses

 

Me and riAlban - People shouldn't be compelled to do things to their body they don't want to

 

You - You shouldn't be allowed to impose your views on others

 

Who's the one imposing their views on others there? Neither of us have at any stage said we're against vaccinations, receiving them ourselves once proven or suggesting anyone else shouldn't have them. 

 


This is where we disagree. You  are saying people should be allowed to avoid the vaccine, for no good reason, if that’s their choice. The consequences of such a decision are well documented and would result in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths each year. 
 

Essentially :

 

You - I value people’s individual rights to such an extent that I am willing to let their choices cause the preventable deaths of thousands of people.

 

Me - That’s not right and in such situations people should either be forced to take the vaccine or be excluded from society and the benefits that brings.

 

You - I’m not against vaccinations. 
 

I am not arguing YOU or aussieh are against vaccines (I have no idea where that’s came from) but against anti-vaxxers choice to be allowed to keep a deadly virus spreading. 

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Why would someone deciding not getting vaccinated harm people that do get vaccinated? Am I missing something? 
 

If someone doesn’t want to get a vaccine then surely it’s only themselves they put at risk? 

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13 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

If there is not some significant easing of restrictions tomorrow then I can see folk losing patience and doing there own thing. As I said earlier the risk of infection now is so small that this lockdown is now a waste of time and resources. I am not suggesting we suddenly just open the country in one big swoop but if a coherent plan that folk can buy into isn't produced then i feel folk will just totally ignore any advice. Difficult watching other countries and especially england getting their freedoms back whilst we sit here still waiting.

 

Sturgeon has one chance to get this right, fail and she risks losing all the goodwill she has bought.

 

The problem is the UK was ten days slower into lockdown than most of Europe, if it hadn't followed the herd immunity strategy then backtracked, the restrictions would have been eased by now, and with fewer deaths. That said, I think there'll be some movement this week.

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2 minutes ago, jambo89 said:


This is where we disagree. You  are saying people should be allowed to avoid the vaccine, for no good reason, if that’s their choice. The consequences of such a decision are well documented and would result in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths each year. 
 

Essentially :

 

You - I value people’s individual rights to such an extent that I am willing to let their choices cause the preventable deaths of thousands of people.

 

Me - That’s not right and in such situations people should either be forced to take the vaccine or be excluded from society and the benefits that brings.

 

You - I’m not against vaccinations. 
 

I am not arguing YOU or aussieh are against vaccines (I have no idea where that’s came from) but against anti-vaxxers choice to be allowed to keep a deadly virus spreading. 

No proven vaccines are no good reason? Really! You think that a vaccine that has been tested in weeks, maybe months should be good to go for everyone, whether they agree or not. By all means, you have it, but hey, I'll pass.

And there's no way, if like you, people take the vaccine, there'll be no spread, and you will have no need to worry. 👍

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4 minutes ago, Shanks said:

Why would someone deciding not getting vaccinated harm people that do get vaccinated? Am I missing something? 
 

If someone doesn’t want to get a vaccine then surely it’s only themselves they put at risk? 

You need about 80% of the population for the vaccine to work. Could be less or more. I'll look it up. 

90%

Edited by ri Alban
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AlimOzturk
1 minute ago, Shanks said:

Why would someone deciding not getting vaccinated harm people that do get vaccinated? Am I missing something? 
 

If someone doesn’t want to get a vaccine then surely it’s only themselves they put at risk? 

 

Need a certain level of uptake in immunization to create heard immunity. If the anti vaxers convinced enough folk that vaccines are some sort of conspiracy to control you then it would lead to the vaccines failing. 

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6 minutes ago, jambo89 said:


This is where we disagree. You  are saying people should be allowed to avoid the vaccine, for no good reason, if that’s their choice. The consequences of such a decision are well documented and would result in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths each year. 
 

Essentially :

 

You - I value people’s individual rights to such an extent that I am willing to let their choices cause the preventable deaths of thousands of people.

 

Me - That’s not right and in such situations people should either be forced to take the vaccine or be excluded from society and the benefits that brings.

 

You - I’m not against vaccinations. 
 

I am not arguing YOU or aussieh are against vaccines (I have no idea where that’s came from) but against anti-vaxxers choice to be allowed to keep a deadly virus spreading. 

 

I'll happily take a vaccine that's been through all the trials successfully, but with compulsory vaccination what would you do to people who refused it? Jail? - doesn't solve the problem. Forcible vaccination? - the TV pictures of children being overpowered then vaccinated against their will wont look too clever.

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4 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Need a certain level of uptake in immunization to create heard immunity. If the anti vaxers convinced enough folk that vaccines are some sort of conspiracy to control you then it would lead to the vaccines failing. 

Would you put a vaccine into your body if it was rolled out in June, July , August or even September? Considering these things take around 5 years usually.

 

Edited by ri Alban
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