Levein and MacPhee left on May 31st ( updated )

[Beast Boy]

10 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Thank **** for that , I read it 3 times and thought  - it must be me, it must be the wine. 

I just picture MacKay’s grumpy red face peering out from a wingback armchair, as his missus tuts and sighs as she hoovers around his giant box of season tickets:

 

“Can we no toss these, Gary?” “It’s just not normal... “

”Keep yer bloody paws aff me tickets, woman!”

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Special Officer Doofy

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I just picture MacKay’s grumpy red face peering out from a wingback armchair, as his missus tuts and sighs as she hoovers around his giant box of season tickets:

 

“Can we no toss these, Gary?” “It’s just not normal... “

”Keep yer bloody paws aff me tickets, woman!”

 

 

Gary trying to watch the TV.

 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Gary trying to watch the TV.

 

 

The smaller boxes being the years since smart cards were introduced.

[Last Laff]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I have no beef with you man. It’s just a really funny thought.

Know you’ve not mate, made it worse.  GM kicking about with hundreds of tickets home and away ripping out the managers/captains thoughts part of any program. (Raging when CL took his place) 😁

[Last Laff]

9 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

The smaller boxes being the years since smart cards were introduced.

Too far 🤬  

[Last Laff]

41 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

No pint in getting angry tho orcreieari g the same stuff. 

 

CL wil be gone completely soon, he hasn't managed us since December. 

 

In regards to CL, nothing has changed in the last 6 months, no point in getting angry. 

 

 

Nope, slagging any Hearts player from that era for not winning trophies is pathetic. 

 

 

 

 

No bother pal.  Fair play to you for taking the abuse you get on the chin like.  It’s not even pantomime abuse.  It’s an actual disgrace!  Like your thoughts on that final, so kinda evens itself out 👍

[Beast Boy]

23 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Know you’ve not mate, made it worse.  GM kicking about with hundreds of tickets home and away ripping out the managers/captains thoughts part of any program. (Raging when CL took his place) 😁

Old team photos on the bathroom wall with Levein’s face scribbled out. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

59 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

No pint in getting angry tho orcreieari g the same stuff. 

 

CL wil be gone completely soon, he hasn't managed us since December. 

 

In regards to CL, nothing has changed in the last 6 months, no point in getting angry. 

 

 

Nope, slagging any Hearts player from that era for not winning trophies is pathetic. 

 

 

 

 

 

The vast majority of footballers and managers never win a thing. It means nothing. Matt Le Tissier always springs to mind as a brilliant footballer who didn't win anything. On the other hand, a lot of very limited footballers do have a medal from a one-off cup run or lucking into a move to Rangers or Celtic. Kirk Broadfoot has a bunch of medals! No-one would ever say that makes him a better player than someone like Levein. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

Any Hearts fan slagging off members of the 85/86 team for not winning trophies needs to have a word.

[Beni]

46 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And a man who knows as a manager you can have terrible seasons as well as great seasons.

 

Doddie would never have survived long enough in today's climate to give us 85/86 and a couple of other great seasons, including a great European run. Fans would have demanded his head after any of the previous 4 seasons when he failed to win the First Division in two goes and had us finishing 5th and 7th in the Premier League.

 

Doddie won promotion in his first full season in charge, I can't remember too much grumbling about not being champions. He finished 5th in his first season in the premier league, and given this was the 'new firm' era that was seen as a great result. 7th was a slight disappointment, but only that. The rest is history. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And a man who knows as a manager you can have terrible seasons as well as great seasons.

 

Doddie would never have survived long enough in today's climate to give us 85/86 and a couple of other great seasons, including a great European run. Fans would have demanded his head after any of the previous 4 seasons when he failed to win the First Division in two goes and had us finishing 5th and 7th in the Premier League.

I don’t agree about his first four years. He took over in mid December, surely nobody would criticise a manager that took over then with another awful managers players 🤔?

He got us promoted the next season which was a great relief. The season we finished 5th was when we just came back up and qualified for Europe. 84-85 wasn’t great though but Willie Johnstone kept me entertained.
He was a great manager and his nine years established us back in the top league, with a professionalism that was lacking. He had a fantastic record versus Hibs too, but his eventually time was up most realised this. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Doddie won promotion in his first full season in charge, I can't remember too much grumbling about not being champions. He finished 5th in his first season in the premier league, and given this was the 'new firm' era that was seen as a great result. 7th was a slight disappointment, but only that. The rest is history. 

Indeed. 

[Voiceofreasonfortheseason]

Sitting here now 8 cans in and thinking which is never good.  I personally want Levein away and I am glad he is but am I being harsh?  Guessing, but I dont think he was ever in the pipeline to take over after Cathro, I get the feeling he just had to based on how badly Budge handled the next recruitment process.  Some on here will argue it was because of him that we were left with no options.  Honestly, I blame Budge for everything I just worry that we are ruining a club legend or a good club man if you like by blaming him for 90% of what has gone on.  Listen, again before it starts I am not a fan of Levein tbh but I have to say the blame lies with Budge more imo.  Keen to actually gauge the thoughts on Craig Levein from genuine Hearts supporters.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Voiceofreasonfortheseason
Zpelli g

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

Have another can 

[Voiceofreasonfortheseason]

1 minute ago, Still Tynie said:

 

The man wants rid of both, I cant argue

[annushorribilis III]

2 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I just picture MacKay’s grumpy red face peering out from a wingback armchair, as his missus tuts and sighs as she hoovers around his giant box of season tickets:

 

“Can we no toss these, Gary?” “It’s just not normal... “

”Keep yer bloody paws aff me tickets, woman!”

 

 

😄

[Jambo-Fox]

18 minutes ago, Voiceofreasonfortheseason said:

Sitting here now 8 cans in and thinking which is never good.  I personally want Levein away and I am glad he is but am I being harsh?  Guessing, but I dont think he was ever in the pipeline to take over after Cathro, I get the feeling he just had to based on how badly Budge handled the next recruitment process.  Some on here will argue it was because of him that we were left with no options.  Honestly, I blame Budge for everything I just worry that we are ruining a club legend or a good club man if you like by blaming him for 90% of what has gone on.  Listen, again before it starts I am not a fan of Levein tbh but I have to say the blame lies with Budge more imo.  Keen to actually gauge the thoughts on Craig Levein from genuine Hearts supporters.

Must be strong beer ..... hope your head is not too bad when you wake up! And keep up your obvious love for legend CL!!

[Voiceofreasonfortheseason]

6 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Must be strong beer ..... hope your head is not too bad when you wake up! And keep up your obvious love for legend CL!!

So you blame Levein for more then Budge?

[Weakened Offender]

33 minutes ago, Voiceofreasonfortheseason said:

Sitting here now 8 cans in and thinking which is never good. 

 

Yup. 

[annushorribilis III]

28 minutes ago, Voiceofreasonfortheseason said:

Sitting here now 8 cans in and thinking which is never good.  I personally want Levein away and I am glad he is but am I being harsh?  Guessing, but I dont think he was ever in the pipeline to take over after Cathro, I get the feeling he just had to based on how badly Budge handled the next recruitment process.  Some on here will argue it was because of him that we were left with no options.  Honestly, I blame Budge for everything I just worry that we are ruining a club legend or a good club man if you like by blaming him for 90% of what has gone on.  Listen, again before it starts I am not a fan of Levein tbh but I have to say the blame lies with Budge more imo.  Keen to actually gauge the thoughts on Craig Levein from genuine Hearts supporters.

AB can't be blamed for loyalty and she can't be blamed for CL refusing to do the decent thing and step down knowing he was failing. 

I want AB to leave as much as anyone but not now - we need to circle the wagons and see out the next two years.

 

Covid is  a game changer for everyone. 

I'd like to see changes at the board level (far too supine) and a real look at CEO/COO roles. 

Bin the Dof as an unaffordable luxury.

But I'd like AB on board for another two years : not something I would ever have thought of 3 months ago.  

[Gershwin]

Bit of a cliche, but she needs a football person to run the football side of things. Someone with a bit of standing in the game.

[martoon]

1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Doddie won promotion in his first full season in charge, I can't remember too much grumbling about not being champions. He finished 5th in his first season in the premier league, and given this was the 'new firm' era that was seen as a great result. 7th was a slight disappointment, but only that. The rest is history. 

 

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Indeed. 

 

Absolutely lads. 

 

The promotion and obvious progress in 1982/83, the magnificent '83/84 and even the sometimes ropey 1984/85 were great seasons. All, to me, clear indications that Hearts were going somewhere. There was no grumbling or discontent from the fans. Social media was non existent in that stone age and is therefore irrelevant. 

 

The start of 1985/86 was poor. Hearts and Alex McDonald were, perhaps, I'll repeat that, perhaps, at a wee bit of a crossroads but we took the right turn and went on from there. 

 

Feckin ludicrous to call the period between August 1982 and October 1985 anything other than success for HMFC after what had gone before. 

 

That's without touching on the rediscovered invincibility against the Lochend shitehawks. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by martoon

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

 

Absolutely lads. 

 

The promotion and obvious progress in 1982/83, the magnificent '83/84 and even the sometimes ropey 1984/85 were great seasons. All, to me, clear indications that Hearts were going somewhere. There was no grumbling or discontent from the fans. Social media was non existent in that stone age and is therefore irrelevant. 

 

The start of 1985/86 was poor. Hearts and Alex McDonald were, perhaps, I'll repeat that, perhaps, at a wee bit of a crossroads but we took the right turn and went on from there. 

 

Feckin ludicrous to call the period between August 1982 and October 1985 anything other than success for HMFC after what had gone before. 

 

That's without touching on the rediscovered invincibility against the Lochend shitehawks. 

Definitely. Losing 6-2 in Paisley in the 2nd game of the 85-86 season came back to haunt us.

[Cruyff]

Levein was incharge of the football department. He was clearly given carte blanch to do what he wanted. 

 

However, Ann Budge is meant to be heid honcho. Clearly the buck stops with her. 

 

The pair of them need to leave at the end of May. 

[jake]

Sigh

[ArcticJambo]

reset, get rid!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Doddie won promotion in his first full season in charge, I can't remember too much grumbling about not being champions. He finished 5th in his first season in the premier league, and given this was the 'new firm' era that was seen as a great result. 7th was a slight disappointment, but only that. The rest is history. 

 

That's what I mean. That was then. Doddie wouldn't have lasted 2 seasons in today's environment. 

[Governor Tarkin]

7 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And a man who knows as a manager you can have terrible seasons as well as great seasons.

 

Doddie would never have survived long enough in today's climate to give us 85/86 and a couple of other great seasons, including a great European run. Fans would have demanded his head after any of the previous 4 seasons when he failed to win the First Division in two goes and had us finishing 5th and 7th in the Premier League.

 

That's a fair point but probably not a fair comparison.

Doddie was operating under a completely different financial and organisational structure, and was aided by the fact that he wasn't an inherently unlikable character.

[Governor Tarkin]

4 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Levein was incharge of the football department. He was clearly given carte blanch to do what he wanted. 

 

However, Ann Budge is meant to be heid honcho. Clearly the buck stops with her. 

 

The pair of them need to leave at the end of May. 

 

Spot on, Cruyff.

[Governor Tarkin]

4 hours ago, annushorribilis III said:

AB can't be blamed for loyalty 

 

Eh?

 

She absolutely can.

[Beni]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

That's what I mean. That was then. Doddie wouldn't have lasted 2 seasons in today's environment. 

 

I got the point, but as has been said already, Doddie was a poor example to use. The goal was promotion and he achieved it. Levein's goal, as set out by Budge, was finishing 4th or higher, he failed (twice). Can you see the difference?

[Clerry Jambo]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5602448/craig-levein-leaving-hearts-worse-mess-michael-stewart/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1589666171

[gordiegords]

21 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5602448/craig-levein-leaving-hearts-worse-mess-michael-stewart/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1589666171

 

I agree with Stewart but he cant let it go can he, nothin knew here which he hasnt said already, i'd love to ask him if thats him done with it considering he doesnt give us any new information or insight into what he thinks about Levein, he just goes over the same old ground. Its beyond boring.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

9 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Doddie won promotion in his first full season in charge, I can't remember too much grumbling about not being champions. He finished 5th in his first season in the premier league, and given this was the 'new firm' era that was seen as a great result. 7th was a slight disappointment, but only that. The rest is history. 

 

Trying  to remember back from the brink. 

 

Was Doddie not manager in 81 and we stayed down for two seasons. 

 

We were down 81/82 and 82/83. Came up 83/84.

 

 

 

[Des Lynam]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Trying  to remember back from the brink. 

 

Was Doddie not manager in 81 and we stayed down for two seasons. 

 

We were down 81/82 and 82/83. Came up 83/84.

 

 

 

Think he was maybe talking about just being manager and not player/ manager. 

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I got the point, but as has been said already, Doddie was a poor example to use. The goal was promotion and he achieved it. Levein's goal, as set out by Budge, was finishing 4th or higher, he failed (twice). Can you see the difference?

It’s incredible. Wee things slid in everywhere across JKB to keep propping up CL.

 

Alex MacDonald walked into a complete mess and a club with no money. Anyone who knows their club will know that part of history. The whole culture had to be changed without a big bag of cash. Imagine the work that needed done?

 

Maybe it was simpler times but you still had to compete with the old firms prestige pull in getting players, but the biggest thing for AM (which would arguably be a tougher job then than now) was ingraining the correct mentality right through the club again.
 

A much harder hands-on job back then. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

11 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Think he was maybe talking about just being manager and not player/ manager. 

 

Ooft, I think tj point stands then. 

 

Doddie is a good example of someone who needed time and Likley would have fans asking for a change if not promoted first time. 

Manager or player/ manager. 

 

Irrelevant tho imo in discussing CL. 

 

Depsite his Hearts side not winning trophies we were a good team, many will think different as it's only about trophies for them. 

 

 

[JamboAl]

18 minutes ago, gordiegords said:

 

I agree with Stewart but he cant let it go can he, nothin knew here which he hasnt said already, i'd love to ask him if thats him done with it considering he doesnt give us any new information or insight into what he thinks about Levein, he just goes over the same old ground. Its beyond boring.

 

This is a man who signed for Man U - and failed

signed for Hearts  - and failed

tried to kick a water bottle  - and failed

stood for Parliament  - and failed

tried to get a decent hair style - and failed

Waved and pointed on the field to little effect

What actually are his strengths?

[Beni]

21 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Ooft, I think tj point stands then. 

 

Doddie is a good example of someone who needed time and Likley would have fans asking for a change if not promoted first time. 

Manager or player/ manager. 

 

Irrelevant tho imo in discussing CL. 

 

Depsite his Hearts side not winning trophies we were a good team, many will think different as it's only about trophies for them. 

 

 

 

He was promoted at the end of his first full season in charge. There wasn't years of underachievement with promises of success being just round the corner. He also had an eye for a player, signing a raw young talent by the name of Craig Levein. Whereas Levein's best signing has been,...

erm.......  

hang on........ 

I'll get back to you.

Edited May 17, 2020 by fancy a brew

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

He was promoted at the end of his first full season in charge. There wasn't years of underachievement with promises of success being just round the corner. He also had an eye for a player, signing a raw young talent by the name of Craig Levein. Whereas Levein's best signing has been,...

erm.......  

hang on........ 

I'll get back to you.

 

 

The comparison with CL is irrelevant tbh anyway imo. But Doddie would have had fans agitated at the very least. 

Failing promotion under him first season even if it was only part of the season, then 2nd in the championship. 

Robbie had fans agitated after a far better start. 

1st, 3rd then 2nd(ish) and some fans were fire breathing, no way they would have kept behind Doddie  based on that. 

 

CL also only had one full season with us this time, he finished 6th, lc sf and sc final. 

The year before we started with Cathro and the lc shambles , cl was sacked as manager  this season after 11 games with us second bottom. 

 

Anyway, since December nothing has changed in regards to CL. 

 

 

[Last Laff]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

This is a man who signed for Man U - and failed

signed for Hearts  - and failed

tried to kick a water bottle  - and failed

stood for Parliament  - and failed

tried to get a decent hair style - and failed

Waved and pointed on the field to little effect

What actually are his strengths?

He had a career as a professional footballer, captained the club he supported, won more medals than Craig Levein has in how many years in football and has now made a successful transformation into punditry.  That’s before going into his successful investment portfolio which has made him an extremely wealthy person.  
My god he was released from Manchester United though, the shame. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Last Laff

[Kev1998]

Like I have stated many times before ,apart from leaving the first team decimated(the players also have to take the rap for a big part of this)what I cannot forgive him for is the 5 year plan.the much vaunted academy that was meant to churn out young talent for the first team ,then to be sold at  later date.nada talent worthwhile came through,yet clubs like well and killie sell young players for big money without half the funding as us.doddie was mentioned further up the thread.how many young players were brought through under him ?half a team.unforgivable the sooner the loser leaves the better

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Trying  to remember back from the brink. 

 

Was Doddie not manager in 81 and we stayed down for two seasons. 

 

We were down 81/82 and 82/83. Came up 83/84.

 

 

 

He took over in December 1981 from Tony Ford as player manager, back then fans had more patience with a manager who took over at that time from a poor manager with a poor squad. Ironically TJ now wants the current manager to go, proves his point I suppose.

He got us promoted in 82-83 which was job done. We qualified fir Europe by finishing 5th in 84-85. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

He took over in December 1981 from Tony Ford, back then fans had more patience with a manager who took over at that time from a poor manager with a poor squad. He got us promoted in 82-83 which was job done. We qualified fir Europe by finishing 5th in 84-85. 

 

Cheers, someone else said so as well. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Cheers, someone else said so as well. 

Just adding a bit of flesh to the meat. 

[Jambo-Fox]

11 hours ago, Voiceofreasonfortheseason said:

So you blame Levein for more then Budge?

I don’t think it is appropriate to ‘blame’ any individual!

[JamboAl]

52 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

He had a career as a professional footballer, captained the club he supported, won more medals than Craig Levein has in how many years in football and has now made a successful transformation into punditry.  That’s before going into his successful investment portfolio which has made him an extremely wealthy person.  
My god he was released from Manchester United though, the shame. 

It's a team game.  Do you think he won these medals on his own?  I could name many many Hearts players who never won medals but were far better players than him and much less petulant.

Chic Young has had a successful time in punditry.  Kris Commons, Chris Sutton. Willie Miller etc etc

Anyone with a bob or two can have a successful investment portfolio and  many manage that by hiring  others to do the thinking for them.  If wealth is a yardstick you must be a real supporter of Mrs Budge and she admitted she knew little about football.

I didn't say it was/was not a shame.  I said he failed there.  Did he or did he not?

He also failed to become a MP, not even winning the party's nomination

And all of that still does not qualify him as someone whose opinion on football is any more valid than someone else's and more so since he has never managed a club.

[leginten]

24 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

I don’t think it is appropriate to ‘blame’ any individual!

Ann Budge approves of this post.

[Last Laff]

31 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

It's a team game.  Do you think he won these medals on his own?  I could name many many Hearts players who never won medals but were far better players than him and much less petulant.

Chic Young has had a successful time in punditry.  Kris Commons, Chris Sutton. Willie Miller etc etc

Anyone with a bob or two can have a successful investment portfolio and  many manage that by hiring  others to do the thinking for them.  If wealth is a yardstick you must be a real supporter of Mrs Budge and she admitted she knew little about football.

I didn't say it was/was not a shame.  I said he failed there.  Did he or did he not?

He also failed to become a MP, not even winning the party's nomination

And all of that still does not qualify him as someone whose opinion on football is any more valid than someone else's and more so since he has never managed a club.

You asked what he’s done.  He’s won more in his career than Levein.   I couldn’t care about Chic Young or Commons either, your trying to belittle Stewart being a success pundit on Scottish media in tv, radio, paper and co-commentary. 
“anyone with a bob or two” I would suggest the hit rate with footballers making more money after football is very low, especially in Scottish football.  Craig Levein should have a few quid though too, ripping us and the national team for cash after failing.  Leicester too. 
Who mentioned his opinion is more valid?  You only.  While trying to belittle his opinion of your hero, your hero who has ultimately failed in football management. 
What’s failing to become a MP got to do with a former hearts captain giving his opinion on football and hearts? 
Once again you’re tying yourself in naughts. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Last Laff

[CJGJ]

2 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

You asked what he’s done.  He’s won more in his career than Levein.   I couldn’t care about Chic Young or Commons either, your trying to belittle Stewart being a success pundit on Scottish media in tv, radio, paper and co-commentary. 
“anyone with a bob or two” I would suggest the hit rate with footballers making more money after football is very low, especially in Scottish football.  Craig Levein should have a few quid though too, ripping us and the national team for cash after failing.  Leicester too. 
Who mentioned his opinion is more valid?  You only.  While trying to belittle his opinion of your hero, your hero who has ultimately failed in football management. 
What’s failing to become a MP got to do with a former hearts captain giving his opinion on football and hearts? 
Once again you’re tying yourself in naughts. 

One point there is no doubt and I mean no doubt who the better player was and that is Craig Levein.

[Last Laff]

1 minute ago, CJGJ said:

One point there is no doubt and I mean no doubt who the better player was and that is Craig Levein.

Of course he was.  
There’s also no doubt who has made an utter mess of HMFC and damaged the club to the tune of millions - and it’s not Mikey Stewart.