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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


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4 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

What if it doesn’t go much deeper? What if the offer can help some teams but ultimately not others? Supposing it’s enough per club to get ICT playing but not a Kilmarnock or a St Johnstone due to their higher wages? The offer is to help clubs, not save them.

 

Exactly.

 

It could also be used to ensure some clubs can survive mothballing for a season. 

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4 minutes ago, Maroon tinted glasses 2 said:

How do we know that amongst JA's requirements is not a bit about how he will give financial support but it would be impossible to do so across the 4 divisions so if the numpties at the top are serious and whish to accept the offer then they must show a willingness to change the setup asap. Otherwise, run the risk of some premier clubs being unable to compete BCD and therefor contributing to a lengthy delay to the seasons start which would be catastrophic for some. 

Was it not stated today that the help was for all 42 clubs.

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37 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Spot on

 From someone with experience of commercial litigation  which in effect this would be and of hearing QCs opinions.

The better test of the chances of success is who has the deeper pockets - us or them.

I think having the deeper pockets helps, but it is not as important as having a solid case. Not only do I think we have a solid case, I am pretty sure we have deeper pockets. Remember that all of the member clubs will be equally liable in a court action. I reckon we have considerably deeper pockets than at least 35 of them.

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1 minute ago, Pilmuir said:

You’re not in a minority of one because I see AB the same way. But I’m really struggling to see how JAs offer can help us. I hope it’s a very cunning plan.

 

 

On the face of it, it is not designed/meant to help "us". 

 

It is to help all clubs survive and assist as many as possible to play as much football as they can for the next season (or two).

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Tokyo Drifter

I would never wish to portray the SPFL as anything other than upright and irreproachable but regarding Anderson's bung, I do wonder how much Doncaster will want before there's a miraculous u-turn on the issue of reconstruction. What's the going rate these days?

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Just now, Tokyo Drifter said:

I would never wish to portray the SPFL as anything other than upright and irreproachable but regarding Anderson's bung, I do wonder how much Doncaster will want before there's a miraculous u-turn on the issue of reconstruction. What's the going rate these days?

 

If that was the case I'm sure the offer would be withdrawn and that made public. 

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6 minutes ago, benny said:

Still no chance of this going through.

The voting structure will see to that.

How I see it now - legal action to recover our losses and that will be substantial - very substantial. 

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3 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Was it not stated today that the help was for all 42 clubs.

 

 

Having a central fund to pay for C-19 testing would help all clubs...

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12 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

 

 

 

 


It's really very simple.

The benefactors donations could be the key to keeping the smaller clubs alive, whilst helping the bigger clubs tackle the cost of playing behind closed doors, including testing and other arrangements that will have to be put in place.


If we do not get restored to the premiership, we sue and have 2 different avenues for winning the case. 

The SPFL, thanks to the benefactor's monetary injection, cannot claim we are actively harming the other clubs because, when we win, any compensation award will likely come out of the additional benefactor money - thus the clubs are not in a materially worse position than before the suit , but they do lose the benefit of the cash. That is their choice, not ours. 

We, as a club, have acted ethically and above reproach at each stage of this pantomime.

* We've done the SPFL's work in drafting reconstruction proposals 
* We've offered at cost the stadium and facilities as a hub
* We've offered to fund testing
* We've attracted life-saving investment from a wealthy fund 

We can state, unequivocally in any court proceedings that we not only exhausted every single avenue to remediate the SPFL's disastorous and unjust decision, we have went above and beyond and can argue that awarding us compensation does not materially affect the clubs survival. 

So, what's it to be billy big baws gobshites in charge of the smaller clubs? Swallow your pride and vote for reconstruction whilst improving your survival chances, or act like the prehistoric dinosaurs that we all frankly believe you to be and reject the opportunities in front of you just to teach Budge, and big "bad" Hearts a lesson?

 

This is the best explanation I've read so far in support of the last few days developments . 

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Bazzas right boot
49 minutes ago, communist said:

 

I don't have any court experience, at all, but I've got friends who have had to employ lawyers for divorces, traffic offences, work related issues, all I do know from the legal buffs, is that they will rarely turn down a job wether or not it has any chance of succeeding. 

 

Why would they? Its all just money to them. 

 

 

 

I could be wrong but losing cases does not look good for their CV, especially qc's. 

 

They do want to win and will advise on chances, even using your examples. 

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upgotheheads
3 minutes ago, benny said:

Still no chance of this going through.

The voting structure will see to that.

 

I can't believe that the offer will be made without a few conditions being 'understood' even if they're not stated. remember its not just Hearts, Partick are on the receiving end of an even greater injustice.

 

7 minutes ago, scotty2442 said:

Couldn’t agree more, this is why there must surely be conditions attached

 

It would take some kind of brass neck to accept the cash brokered by AB and then turn down re-organisation just out of spite towards Hearts, not to mention Partick, Stranraer and the lower tier clubs who would miss out.  

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Ethan Hunt
4 hours ago, bajthejambo said:

This surely puts any "self interest" arguement to bed for those who have been howling about it?

 

 

Exactly.

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After having a lot of time away from the forum to think about it, I’ve come to the following conclusion:

 

Anderson is only involved with Hearts because of Ann Budge and the direction she’s taken the club in. 
 

Anderson talks about morals, and principles. That is what draws him to places where he can gift financial help.

 

The SPFL Board and the clubs that currently wield the power over it are morally bankrupt vindictive small minded arseholes.

 

I’m very comfortable with what will happen going forwards. In terms of where Anderson and co will want to help out. 
 

Throughout all of this Budge has remained true to her values and principles in an honest and moral way. The same way that attracted Anderson in the first place.

 

The SPFL CEO, his minions and the club executiveS have acted in anything like that manner:


“Give us the money!”

 

“Hearts must be relegated.”

 

“We don’t care about reconstruction to save the smaller clubs.”

 

“Glad this money comes without conditions so we can expel Hearts and not risk the cash coming in.“

 

Does anyone think for one Second that a man of such decent philanthropic and moral standing is going to just start chucking money at these amoral devious life vacuums? Not a chance. It seems to me that they are feeling the set up out, and they will then decide whether or not they want to help further. How the SPFL Board and clubs receive this help, will play a big part in deciding whether or not any future financial aid is forthcoming. All the indications so far, are that they won’t reall be getting seen as worthy of much more assistance.

 

Budge on the other hand, continues to try and do what is best for everyone. Anderson and chums already like her, and Hearts and have signed up to “five more years”... let’s see if they extend that again shall we?

 

Lets let the SPFL Board and clubs decide how they want to treat Hearts shall we? I think it will help make up some minds as to where any possible future cash might head. ;)

 

 

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Whatsthefuture
6 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

I think having the deeper pockets helps, but it is not as important as having a solid case. Not only do I think we have a solid case, I am pretty sure we have deeper pockets. Remember that all of the member clubs will be equally liable in a court action. I reckon we have considerably deeper pockets than at least 35 of them.


shall the independent clubs require to have their own council also. 

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Jambos1983
17 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

 

 

 

 


It's really very simple.

The benefactors donations could be the key to keeping the smaller clubs alive, whilst helping the bigger clubs tackle the cost of playing behind closed doors, including testing and other arrangements that will have to be put in place.


If we do not get restored to the premiership, we sue and have 2 different avenues for winning the case. 

The SPFL, thanks to the benefactor's monetary injection, cannot claim we are actively harming the other clubs because, when we win, any compensation award will likely come out of the additional benefactor money - thus the clubs are not in a materially worse position than before the suit , but they do lose the benefit of the cash. That is their choice, not ours. 

We, as a club, have acted ethically and above reproach at each stage of this pantomime.

* We've done the SPFL's work in drafting reconstruction proposals 
* We've offered at cost the stadium and facilities as a hub
* We've offered to fund testing
* We've attracted life-saving investment from a wealthy fund 

We can state, unequivocally in any court proceedings that we not only exhausted every single avenue to remediate the SPFL's disastorous and unjust decision, we have went above and beyond and can argue that awarding us compensation does not materially affect the clubs survival. 

So, what's it to be billy big baws gobshites in charge of the smaller clubs? Swallow your pride and vote for reconstruction whilst improving your survival chances, or act like the prehistoric dinosaurs that we all frankly believe you to be and reject the opportunities in front of you just to teach Budge, and big "bad" Hearts a lesson?

 

Exaclty my point earlier. What possible reasons could clubs give now to reject a 14-10-10-10?

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Isn't there something quite good about Hearts major benefactor providing a pittance to Hibs, channelled through a 3rd party?  Meanwhile, the millions keep pouring into Tynecastle.

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2 minutes ago, Jambos1983 said:

Exaclty my point earlier. What possible reasons could clubs give now to reject a 14-10-10-10?

Spite and jealousy.

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7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

I could be wrong but losing cases does not look good for their CV, especially qc's. 

 

They do want to win and will advise on chances, even using your examples. 

 

In virtually every court case one side loses. 

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Jambos1983
2 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Spite and jealousy.

Their clubs fold without this though and won't exactly do their legal case any good.

Edited by Jambos1983
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30 minutes ago, communist said:

 

In an unprecedented time with an unprecedented case?  Not sure. 

 

Donald findlay defended rangers in the ebt case, no doubt knowing it would fail, as one example of QCs defending a sinking ship. 

 

It could only bring reputational damage if it was a supposed clear cut, easy case, this won't be, it would drag on for ages, and at huge expense, that's from Ann's own mouth.

 

 

If you are going to give examples of lawyers taking on cases regardless of the chances of success, you might come up with an example that has a modicum of truth attached to it.

Donald Findlay did not represent Rangers in the EBT case. He is a criminal defence advocate, not a tax expert. He did defend Craig Whyte in a fraud trial - successfully.

For your information, clients decide whether or not they are going to go to court, not their lawyers. A good lawyer will always advise his or her clients as to the quality of their case. However, if clients are determined to have a day in court, they are still entitled to representation. That is not quite the same as lawyers taking on any old case.

Advocates frequently turn down cases (especially criminal appeals), where they are of the view that there is virtually no prospect of success.

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annushorribilis III
10 minutes ago, Whatsthefuture said:


shall the independent clubs require to have their own council also. 

It'll be the Board  - everything the clubs have done was at the behest of the board : starting with THAT resolution. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

Do you think he told them they had a very good case, or did he tell them the truth? That they would probably lose. 

 

I have no idea. 

 

Pretty sure he done it for free too, so rangers may have let him run as far as he could with it?

 

Either way I still don't believe there are many cases of QC's or lawyers turning down many jobs. 

 

I'd think its just another job for them, and I can't see any reputational damage after a case like this, resulting from a pandemic, without any previous precedent. It's a win win for the lawyers, as is always the case. 

 

They win they get paid, they loose they get paid. Do you really think many would think twice about hiring a lawyer that lost a case about a shambolic vote surrounding Scottish football based on a virus, missing/lost emails and wee clubs feeling pressurised either way? I don't. 

 

But really I'm just rambling, I have no legal expertise or experience at all. Although clearly based on what others are saying with experience, I'm not alone. 

 

I'd love it if I were wrong, and if we could stick it to the weasels in court. But I'm a pessimist about it all now. 

 

I'd prefer the club concentrated on first team football matters, recruitment and making plans for getting back to the spfl by winning matches. Winning football matches is what matters most to me for the coming season, and we won't be playing in the SPFL as far as I can see. 

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Class of 75
5 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

I wouldn't even be surprised if he stated "I said what I said to draw him out and encourage him to make good on his offer" or some pap like that.

Yep, he will no doubt spin it. 

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11 minutes ago, Whatsthefuture said:


shall the independent clubs require to have their own council also. 

No, but they will all have to contribute to whoever is instructed. Can't see Celtic stumping up for them...

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

I maybe in a minority of one here but, I have always believed that Ann Budge has been playing the long game.

To those that believe this lady is an idiot, you could not be further from the truth.

This lady has a brain as sharp as anyone's. She is nobody's fool.

I believe she has been planning this long before the original resolution was voted on as she had wind of it beforehand.

Every move she has made since the 10th of April has been planned and the strategy agreed well in advance.

I have never had any doubt that the next time Heart of Midlothian football team play a league game it will be in the top tier of Scottish football.

 

I believe there will be one condition behind the monies from the philanthropist(s), and that is that Neil Doncaster will be out a job soon.

 

You're definitely not in a minority of 1. She's a smart operator, there are just some who are blinded by their Levein obsession that they judge her on her loyalty to Levein. Even that, however misplaced and damaging that loyalty has proven to be over the last 18 months, is not actually the huge negative they think it is.

 

Potential managers want to work with owners that back them and at least try to give them time. No-one good wants to work with "hire 'em. fire 'em" operators.

 

There is also - let's be totally honest here - a very large thread of misogyny running through much of the criticism of her in the media and from fans - ours (disgracefully) and other clubs' fans. One read of social media replies to journalists commenting on her on Twitter backs that up.


She's always been focused on the long-term - get us operating sustainably, hand over to the fans with no debt, secure Tynecastle as our home and get the stand built... This has led to criticism from impatient folk who can't see beyond the next season or even the next match.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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2 hours ago, Gilberts Fridge said:

Have I missed something, wasn't the Premier League meting to vote on restructuring meant to be today?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52826394

 

Just to discuss Reconstruction.

 

More meetings this week with the other leagues. 

 

A vote is some way away.

Edited by Mikey1874
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Honestly, folk need to read up on Anderson and his moral code...

 

Hes agreed to put this money in, and that is now locked. Well done SPFL, you’ve bagged a freebie.

 

Hes already agreed to put in five more years of funds in to Hearts, who through our CEO have brought him in to Scottish Football to begin with.

 

He had to suffer his way through a meeting with two morally bankrupt scumbags in Doncaster and McLennan, to agree to inject funds in to the SPFL. He will now be waiting to see how the member clubs react to his philanthropy. Will they be like Budge and seek to build something that benefits all,  or will they just snatch the money like Harpies descending on a laid table, and fly off back to their insular wee nests of self preservation?

 

Its all rather beautiful, and I look forward to how the clubs vote. :rofl:

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3 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

If you are going to give examples of lawyers taking on cases regardless of the chances of success, you might come up with an example that has a modicum of truth attached to it.

Donald Findlay did not represent Rangers in the EBT case. He is a criminal defence advocate, not a tax expert. He did defend Craig Whyte in a fraud trial - successfully.

For your information, clients decide whether or not they are going to go to court, not their lawyers. A good lawyer will always advise his or her clients as to the quality of their case. However, if clients are determined to have a day in court, they are still entitled to representation. That is not quite the same as lawyers taking on any old case.

Advocates frequently turn down cases (especially criminal appeals), where they are of the view that there is virtually no prospect of success.

 

 

Rangers cases all blur into one for me. But I take your point. 

 

We will see what happens, I doubt it will make court. 

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Guest ToqueJambo
Just now, Special Officer Doofy said:

Honestly, folk need to read up on Anderson and his moral code...

 

Hes agreed to put this money in, and that is now locked. Well done SPFL, you’ve bagged a freebie.

 

Hes already agreed to put in five more years of funds in to Hearts, who through our CEO have brought him in to Scottish Football to begin with.

 

He had to suffer his way through a meeting with two morally bankrupt scumbags in Doncaster and McLennan, to agree to inject funds in to the SPFL. He will now be waiting to see how the member clubs react to his philanthropy. Will they be like Budge and seek to build something that benefits all,  or will they just snatch the money like Harpies descending on a laid table, and fly off back to their insular wee nests of self preservation?

 

Its all rather beautiful, and I look forward to how the clubs vote. :rofl:

 

Perfectly summed up 🤣 It's like the job the Guardian/Mirror did on D Cummings. Release a little bit, let them make tits of themselves, then release more... and so on. 

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4 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

Pathetic, like most of your misinformed stuff.

 

PS Just a footnote, who said I didn't know "Mr" Anderson previously?  Another of your out of the air opinions!


So you called him that before then?

 

Pathetic is trying to preach an opinion un-Christian like being someone in your position.

 

Overly aggressive too.   

Edited by Last Laff
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I hope some posters on here are correct and Ann budge is playing a great game but I honestly don’t see it.

i think the offer of the help for other clubs hinders our chances of staying in the premiership.

all my opinion of course and would love to be proved wrong.

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31 minutes ago, Jambo92 said:

Absolutely no chance he is handing over cash to the SPFL without pushing through reconstruction. 

If I was a betting man though I’d be asking myself this before placing my chips. Why would our benefactor be revealed now. Why would he say he’s willing to throw ALL clubs a financial lifeline. Why would he risk  exposure. Why would he not want to say that this money is unconditional yet I want to see no club financially punished. 
 

I think my money would be on a 14,10,10,10 set up with no relegation and two clubs promoted to league two. I don’t believe they’ll vote for 3 leagues of 14 and with a new injection of funding then I think the reason the vote was initially knocked back from the 44 teams was that they didn’t want to dilute the prize money further than it was. This is the SPFL self preservation society we are talking about. This new offer of a financial injection now overcomes this hurdle.  

 

Of course this is only my take on things. I only get told things from one source who has his sources and it’s not from within the walls of Tynecastle. I’m sure both sides want to reach a compromise and court is the last thing they both want. I did say it wouldn’t be decided by Monday though and fully believe that it’ll be Wednesday before we hear anything. 
 

The long game continues for now. 

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15 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Spite and jealousy.

 

What I believe you are missing is we wont be proposing this reconstruction.

 

It will be an SPFL designated patsy ie someone will propose that and it will get voted through. Everyone will say what a great idea and say Budge's idea is no good we have a better one.

 

I am going to guess Elgin will propose the idea.

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Class of 75
24 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

I would never wish to portray the SPFL as anything other than upright and irreproachable but regarding Anderson's bung, I do wonder how much Doncaster will want before there's a miraculous u-turn on the issue of reconstruction. What's the going rate these days?

Also very clever move by Budge and Anderson. If Doncaster knocks it back he harms Scottish football yet accepting it shows he is open to cash persuasion to change his mind thereby questioning the integrity of the SPFL which we have known all along was circumspect. Very clever by Hearts. Budge is now showing that she is no pushover and is taking them head on. 

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29 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Was it not stated today that the help was for all 42 clubs.

Yes, he has offered to fund all the COVID testing that’s required. Pretty simple. 

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OmiyaHearts
1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I don't see how. I don't see any reasons now not to reverse the decision to end the league early and just play the remaining games behind closed doors. Then aim to start the new season when fans are allowed back.

Clubs have released loads of their out of contract players. There's no way the season can be finished. 

Edited by OmiyaHearts
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1 minute ago, Class of 75 said:

Also very clever move by Budge and Anderson. If Doncaster knocks it back he harms Scottish football yet accepting it shows he is open to cash persuasion to change his mind thereby questioning the integrity of the SPFL which we have known all along was circumspect. Very clever by Hearts. Budge is now showing that she is no pushover and is taking them head on. 


I don’t think it’s about whether they knock it back. It’s about how they react after they greedily hoover up the assistance given. They assistance given is locked in now, that’s what they are getting... going forward after that? ... over to you SPFL Board and member clubs... :lol:

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Guest ToqueJambo

Part of me hopes we're just leading them on. JA withdraws the money at the last minute and gives it all to Hearts.

 

ConcernedQuarrelsomeKodiakbear-small.gif

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3 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Also very clever move by Budge and Anderson. If Doncaster knocks it back he harms Scottish football yet accepting it shows he is open to cash persuasion to change his mind thereby questioning the integrity of the SPFL which we have known all along was circumspect. Very clever by Hearts. Budge is now showing that she is no pushover and is taking them head on. 

If ND accepts it he should resign with embarrassment as AB has effectively done his job for him.

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Class of 75
1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I don’t think it’s about whether they knock it back. It’s about how they react after they greedily hoover up the assistance given. They assistance given is locked in now, that’s what they are getting... going forward after that? ... over to you SPFL Board and member clubs... :lol:

Yep great to watch isn't it? I love Hearts, great club. 

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1 minute ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Clubs have released loads of their out of contract players. There's no way the season can be finished. 

re-sign some on short contracts. look at charlton they are going to be playing again and three of their players have said due to being out of contract/loan finished wont play again. similar situation

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53 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

 

Could be like a test match bowler giving 5 nice easy deliveries, then producing a thunderous ball to the unsuspecting batsman.
 

 

And then bring on James Anderson to bowl the next over? 

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Class of 75
Just now, JamboAl said:

If ND accepts it he should resign with embarrassment as AB has effectively done his job for him.

Yep agree. Very savvy on her part. 

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1 minute ago, Class of 75 said:

Yep great to watch isn't it? I love Hearts, great club. 


It is... it’s basically a case of inviting them all over for dinner to celebrate putting a bit of financial backing in. How these people now decide to conduct themselves, will play a major role in whether or not there will be another celebratory dinner. 😎

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1 hour ago, The Mercer Takeover said:

Three is a fundamental flaw now with our legal action, now that Anderson has made this exceptional bit of assistance to Scottish football.

 

Will Budge seriously wish to damage any other Scottish football club, when our primary benefactor has just essentially saved them.

 

Budge won't go for the jugular.

 

That's not how business works 

 

Anderson isn't part of the business Hearts of Midlothian FC taking the legal action. 

 

It's a parallel action. 

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Guest ToqueJambo
7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Yes, he has offered to fund all the COVID testing that’s required. Pretty simple. 

 

That's incredible. And incredible how negatively it's been received.

 

Also worth highlighting that our two biggest and richest clubs have still not stumped up a single penny or moment of their time to help anyone.

 

More than that they've not even taken a productive or proactive part in any of the discussions. Zero ideas. Zero offers of help. Zero solidarity with other clubs. Just total self-interest and their own agendas.

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OmiyaHearts
4 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

re-sign some on short contracts. look at charlton they are going to be playing again and three of their players have said due to being out of contract/loan finished wont play again. similar situation

I'm not sure clubs can afford that. Plus many players have also gone back to their home countries, when the lockdown kicked off.

 

It's not possible, imo.

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annushorribilis III
3 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

I hope some posters on here are correct and Ann budge is playing a great game but I honestly don’t see it.

i think the offer of the help for other clubs hinders our chances of staying in the premiership.

all my opinion of course and would love to be proved wrong.

Maybe, maybe not  : but I can't believe this isn't part of a strategy. 

With the upfront TV money due in August and these  testing costs removed , it will be VERY interesting to see which Championship clubs are capable of seeing out a full season. There is no chance Hearts are going to sit & watch the SPFL adopt a "do nothing" strategy - which is hat I think the message was last week ie there will be  no football in the lower leagues until paying crowds return : that position is not tenable for Hearts. 

 

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Guest ToqueJambo
8 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Clubs have released loads of their out of contract players. There's no way the season can be finished. 

 

That seems to apply to the Scottish Cup too though.

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