SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[jamboinglasgow]

3 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

'In two years' time this plan could potentially mean six clubs being relegated.

******************************************************************************

In two years time a lot of clubs might  have gone out of existence. 

It's unbelievable that proposals to recon and save clubs might be kicked into touch because of  something that MIGHT happen in two years time. 

Strachan's recent words have never been more relevant.

 

 

That is astonishing if that is the reason Championship clubs dont want it. 

 

I dont agree with the tact of Strachan's words, but I agree with you that they are true.

[neilnunb]

16 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

Never mind the Premiership, it seems to have no chance of passing in the Championship.

 

 

 

 

Because every one of those clubs sees away end sellouts with us next season...which is why we need to boycott them.

Edited May 26, 2020 by neilnunb

[Allowayjambo1874]

5 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

That's fine. If any of them can't/refuse to play next season they should be 'torpedoed' straight out of the league set up.

 

That or fold, I couldn't give a toss.

Correct the clubs have shown zero interest in doing anything different from a normal season so far so if that’s the case we start the next season the same way. Give a date that matches will start, if it’s behind closed doors then so be it. If clubs cannot compete on the start date due lack of cash they are out and another team replaces them. If we end up with 20 teams saying they can’t play then tough keep going down the leagues until we find clubs that can. 
 

Absolutely zero sympathy for any of these clowns. 

[1874jrs]

This proposal will pass or fail depending on the old firm especially Celtic. 

 

 

[Anything2]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Not really, the likes of Stranraer will be getting put down to the bottom league to play the weaker teams from League 2 who they would not be playing had they been saved by a 14-10-10-10 reconstruction. I’d be amazed if they’re saying anything positive about it. Why would you not see it as a demotion if you’re playing weaker opposition?  Granted, they should have a better chance of promotion next season but there are stronger teams than them coming down with them too (but most of them will be releasing nearly all their players anyway).

They aren't getting demoted, they are saying where they are and the other teams below them are being promoted. To be in the Championship the following season they only have to finish above those teams instead of Raith, Falkirk, Airdrie ect who are far better sides. They are probably more scared that Cove and Edinburgh City will leapfrog them. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

So, it’s dead in the water then, as expected.  Off to court we go then, bring it on.

[annushorribilis III]

18 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

It remains to be seen how Scottish football decides to play its leagues. 

 

Are the SPFL rules flexible enough to accommodate the various scenarios such as teams not playing / mothballing?

 

Or would that need a vote. I would be proposing to expell any club that can't or won't play. Not accommodate them. 

 

This could be very messy. Up to SPFL to lead this. The Joint Response Group needs to get its plan ready. 

 

A bit off that one club has needed to cut across the whole thing. But SPFL can now help make it happen. 

For all the talk about this possibility in the media , no one seems to be asking about the reality of this - and it is a reality. 

I'm fine with the idea that these tin pot outfits shut down/ go to the wall / whatever. 

What I'm REALLY interested in is : what about the TV money ? Is the SPFL Board (regardless of the recon proposals) intending to give ALL the clubs their TV money up front - when there's no chance of some of them seeing out the season ? 

[jake]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Only by the rabid keyboard warriors 

Aye maybe.

 

[Zico]

7 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

'In two years' time this plan could potentially mean six clubs being relegated.

******************************************************************************

In two years time a lot of clubs might  have gone out of existence. 

It's unbelievable that proposals to recon and save clubs might be kicked into touch because of  something that MIGHT happen in two years time. 

Strachan's recent words have never been more relevant.

 

If this whole shitshow has shown one thing, it’s that the majority of clubs stupidity is only exceeded by their short-sightedness. 

[Allowayjambo1874]

1 minute ago, annushorribilis III said:

For all the talk about this possibility in the media , no one seems to be asking about the reality of this - and it is a reality. 

I'm fine with the idea that these tin pot outfits shut down/ go to the wall / whatever. 

What I'm REALLY interested in is : what about the TV money ? Is the SPFL Board (regardless of the recon proposals) intending to give ALL the clubs their TV money up front - when there's no chance of some of them seeing out the season ? 

That’s exactly the reason they had a vote on ending the season. They said they would not pay out any cash on projected finishes in case teams changed positions. They also said they would not give advances under any circumstances in case clubs went bust. Doncaster has screwed this up, they cannot seriously change the rules for the start of the season and go against the exact reasons they gave when calling the league early, it would be ridiculous 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

I agree with this completely.

 

However, after all this, regardless of the outcome, a serious review the footballing performance has to take place because we were awful for 18 months and were deservedly bottom. 
 

Given our budget and the players we have the performances and results, regardless of injuries, have been truly awful. That cannot be swept under the carpet. 

 

No more experiments with systems and philosophies and models. Make sure we manage injuries better. Go back to basics and recruit experienced players and give youngsters more of a run in the team if we get injuries. Don't sign too many punts and "moneybag" types at the same time. No more basic wages and only very few long-term contracts. If we have injuries or things are going wrong, force managers to work with what they have instead of backing unlimited dealings in the transfer market. If things are obviously not improving, step in sooner to review things and make sure change doesn't happen when it's too late. Don't allow a film crew in to document our season as it obviously brings bad luck.

 

There, done!

 

It's a new world. There's no point beating ourselves up. Everyone knows we had a bad 18 months, with injuries not helping. Football budgets are likely to look very different for a couple of years so a proper review is only going to be useful when things are back to normal. The focus now should be on looking forward and surviving. 

[ToadKiller Dog]

21 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

Never mind the Premiership, it seems to have no chance of passing in the Championship.

 

 

Championship clubs want to vote themselves out of  existence that's up to them.

[annushorribilis III]

4 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

That is astonishing if that is the reason Championship clubs dont want it. 

 

I dont agree with the tact of Strachan's words, but I agree with you that they are true.

The last few days have made me re evaluate the idea that OF are the problem in getting recon : and then you read this shit. 

 

[annushorribilis III]

1 minute ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

That’s exactly the reason they had a vote on ending the season. They said they would not pay out any cash on projected finishes in case teams changed positions. They also said they would not give advances under any circumstances in case clubs went bust. Doncaster has screwed this up, they cannot seriously change the rules for the start of the season and go against the exact reasons they gave when calling the league early, it would be ridiculous 

Basically, what I'm trying to say.

Does the SPFL propose to give out millions of TV money to clubs who have no chance of seeing out the season ?

That's a great question for the Hearts QC in court. 

If we go there. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

10 minutes ago, Anything2 said:

They aren't getting demoted, they are saying where they are and the other teams below them are being promoted. To be in the Championship the following season they only have to finish above those teams instead of Raith, Falkirk, Airdrie ect who are far better sides. They are probably more scared that Cove and Edinburgh City will leapfrog them. 

No, they’re not.  They’re currently in the 2nd lowest league, they’ll be going down to the lowest one where they’ll join the worst 8 teams in the country. How can anyone not see that as demotion? The 8 bottom teams in League 2 are not getting promoted, otherwise that would mean Cove and Edinburgh City are getting promoted 2 divisions!

Yes, they might get promoted but the season after they are looking at 6 getting relegated which is why the Championship clubs aren’t going to vote for this.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Fozzyonthefence

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, Zico said:

If this whole shitshow has shown one thing, it’s that the majority of clubs stupidity is only exceeded by their short-sightedness. 

 

Its like a bunch of people in a house while the flood water is rising, one person is telling them to get in a boat to safety but the others keep asking whats in it for me and are worried that if they leave someone may take their stuff.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

No, they’re not.  They’re currently in the 2nd lowest league, they’ll be going down to the lowest one where they’ll join the worst 8 teams in the country. How can anyone not see that as demotion? 

Yes, they might get promoted but the season after they are looking at 6 getting relegated which is why the Championship clubs aren’t going to vote for this.

 

There might not be a season after for many clubs the way things are going. Reconstruction improves the chances of survival for more clubs. No reconstruction pushes some clubs into serious bother and does;t improve the lot of any clubs.

Championship clubs voting to get Hearts fans in their grounds when there may not be any football in the championship in front of fans (or even any football at all) and Hearts fans will absolutely boycott away games in any case! 

 

On top of that they'll have to pay for a share of legal costs and any compensation. Mental.

Edited May 26, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[GorgieRules22]

She must have known that these championship clubs were not in favour while phoning around the clubs......not sure what to make of all this.

[Anything2]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

No, they’re not.  They’re currently in the 2nd lowest league, they’ll be going down to the lowest one where they’ll join the worst 8 teams in the country. How can anyone not see that as demotion? 

Yes, they might get promoted but the season after they are looking at 6 getting relegated which is why the Championship clubs aren’t going to vote for this.

They are also in the 3rd highest league and will remain in the 3rd highest league under the proposal with an enhanced chance of being in the 2nd highest league next year.

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, GorgieRules22 said:

She must have known that these championship clubs were not in favour while phoning around the clubs......not sure what to make of all this.

She had to go through the motions before legal action.  Seems to have been a lot of time and effort wasted, unfortunately - in hindsight maybe a few lines on the back of a fag packet would have been nester advised than some well thought out proposals.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

She had to go through the motions before legal action.  Seems to have been a lot of time and effort wasted, unfortunately - in hindsight maybe a few lines on the back of a fag packet would have been nester advised than some well thought out proposals.

 

No, all of this boosts the case for compensation as it proves there was a workable alternative solution.

[Ethan Hunt]

23 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

That's fine. If any of them can't/refuse to play next season they should be 'torpedoed' straight out of the league set up.

 

That or fold, I couldn't give a toss.

Agreed. If they are unable to fulfil their fixtures then they cannot meet the criteria to be members of the SPFL.  

 

I’ve always been up for the legal fight so I’m easy about this to be honest. It makes as all stronger and further promotes the Only Hearts philosophy. We’ll just starve them to death.

[12XU]

I Would think the “4” big teams in Scotland have already agreed this as a way forward ( Glasgow x 2 , Hearts , Aberdeen ) - it’s the lesser so called big teams that will have an issue with taking Scottish Football forward.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Anything2 said:

They are also in the 3rd highest league and will remain in the 3rd highest league under the proposal with an enhanced chance of being in the 2nd highest league next year.

I’m well aware of that but I think we’ll need to agree to disagree on whether it is demotion or not. Will be interesting to see the statements from Stranraer, Forfar, etc. 

[annushorribilis III]

5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

No, they’re not.  They’re currently in the 2nd lowest league, they’ll be going down to the lowest one where they’ll join the worst 8 teams in the country. How can anyone not see that as demotion? The 8 bottom teams in League 2 are not getting promoted, otherwise that would mean Cove and Edinburgh City are getting promoted 2 divisions!

Yes, they might get promoted but the season after they are looking at 6 getting relegated which is why the Championship clubs aren’t going to vote for this.

Doncaster ; "Hi Guys. Y'all got your business plans for the next 12 months ?  Wee tip; if you can't sustain yourselves then we'll cut the TV money off at the start (it would be criminal of us - quite literally - to give you money on the basis of a business plan that's doomed to fail - and I could end up in court) so don't predicate your plans on starting the season with THAT money if you have no other income streams.

Now, thoughts on reconstruction ? " 

[jamboinglasgow]

7 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

The last few days have made me re evaluate the idea that OF are the problem in getting recon : and then you read this shit. 

 

 

It never was the old firm, as long as the system keeps them at the top they are fine. Not long after the first vote, I saw someone make the point is that the SPFL needs to be run by one person at the top rather than every club voting on each decision, and after all this (providing its the right person in charge) I cant say that I disagree with that. Club self-interest holds Scotland back as every club votes on narrow short term self-interest, meaning there is no long term plan, just "whats in it for me." Big change that brings about success in the long term, well if it means next season a club gets £20,000 less (even if changes could bring a big increase in revenue in 3 years time) then the club will vote against it.

 

As I said, Strachan showed little tact in his words which wound up lower league clubs but fundamentally he is right, smallest league two clubs have too much power over much bigger clubs and its not about stopping little clubs being mistreated. You can see it in the attitude towards the pyramid as League two should have an automatic promotion/relegation from Pyramid but instead it is a play-off because quite a few league two clubs know that there are Lowland League and Highland League clubs who are much better in ability, support and infrastructure who really deserve to be there but some lowland clubs like to protect their position.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

No, all of this boosts the case for compensation as it proves there was a workable alternative solution.

I was just thinking she could have saved a lot of time.  A lot of time and effort has obviously gone into it.  Not sure if time is a problem for the legal route but I guess we’re looking at compensation now rather than reinstatement anyway.  

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I’m well aware of that but I think we’ll need to agree to disagree on whether it is demotion or not. Will be interesting to see the statements from Stranraer, Forfar, etc. 

 

That would be a very strange way of looking at it. After reconstruction Stranraer would still be two good seasons away from the top league with a higher chance of promotion in both seasons.

[gnasher75]

26 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

'In two years' time this plan could potentially mean six clubs being relegated.

******************************************************************************

In two years time a lot of clubs might  have gone out of existence. 

It's unbelievable that proposals to recon and save clubs might be kicked into touch because of  something that MIGHT happen in two years time. 

Strachan's recent words have never been more relevant.

 

 

And presumably at any point these clubs could put forward a submission asking to make the temporary arrangements permanent.

[Byyy The Light]

The hate for this is STRONG on social media. Hope it gets chucked out and the whole thing burns. Happy for us to take our chances we survive. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Byyy The Light said:

The hate for this is STRONG on social media. Hope it gets chucked out and the whole thing burns. Happy for us to take our chances we survive. 

 

Is there any other emotion on social media? It's just a lot of people alternating between trying to be funny and getting into massive arguments they can't win.

[Ethan Hunt]

10 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

She must have known that these championship clubs were not in favour while phoning around the clubs......not sure what to make of all this.

In fairness the Daily Mail report is from a “second tier source”.Too many people getting sucked in by the headline, then when you read the article it’s a load of shite. One “second tier source” saying that Championship clubs wouldn’t vote for it then suddenly its gospel!! If someone came on here saying they’d been told something by a second tier source they’d get slaughtered.

 

 

[davemclaren]

Clubs should only get a vote if they can confirm their readiness to play closed door games in August. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

That would be a very strange way of looking at it. After reconstruction Stranraer would still be two good seasons away from the top league with a higher chance of promotion in both seasons.

They’re down with the 8 worst teams in the country for next season.  Reasonable chance of promotion this coming season if they recruit well but if they go up to the Championship they would have almost zero chance of promotion the following season - not sure I read that right, were you seriously suggesting they had a chance of being in the Premiership in 2 seasons?!  

[annushorribilis III]

5 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

It never was the old firm, as long as the system keeps them at the top they are fine. Not long after the first vote, I saw someone make the point is that the SPFL needs to be run by one person at the top rather than every club voting on each decision, and after all this (providing its the right person in charge) I cant say that I disagree with that. Club self-interest holds Scotland back as every club votes on narrow short term self-interest, meaning there is no long term plan, just "whats in it for me." Big change that brings about success in the long term, well if it means next season a club gets £20,000 less (even if changes could bring a big increase in revenue in 3 years time) then the club will vote against it.

 

As I said, Strachan showed little tact in his words which wound up lower league clubs but fundamentally he is right, smallest league two clubs have too much power over much bigger clubs and its not about stopping little clubs being mistreated. You can see it in the attitude towards the pyramid as League two should have an automatic promotion/relegation from Pyramid but instead it is a play-off because quite a few league two clubs know that there are Lowland League and Highland League clubs who are much better in ability, support and infrastructure who really deserve to be there but some lowland clubs like to protect their position.

I agree ; I meant to say in the light of a lot of comment on here about it being "run for the  benefit of two clubs".

 

Otherwise , I totally agree. 

[annushorribilis III]

7 minutes ago, gnasher75 said:

 

And presumably at any point these clubs could put forward a submission asking to make the temporary arrangements permanent.

Exactly. 

 

[Jambo-Fox]

The Ann Budge proposal is the only honest and honourable proposal in Scottish Football recently! It’s a decent attempt to plot a way forward for all clubs!

 

However Scottish Football is a cesspit run by selfish short sighted individuals who don’t have a strategic or visionary cell in their bodies.

 

The SPFL is a ‘members organisation’ and if the members reject this proposal they are effectively telling their Member Hearts “we don’t want you or your ideas”!

 

I hope the proposal is accepted. If not I don’t see how the championship is a viable option for Hearts.

Therefore Hearts should take these actions in parallel;

1. Legal action vs the SPFL (Reinstatement to the Premier division, nothing less)

2. Start talks with the EFL about seeing if an invite / application to join is feasible

[annushorribilis III]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Clubs should only get a vote if they can confirm their readiness to play closed door games in August. 

Clubs should only get a vote & TV money  if they can confirm their readiness to play closed door games in August and a business plan to see out the season. 

[DC_92]

2 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

In fairness the Daily Mail report is from a “second tier source”.Too many people getting sucked in by the headline, then when you read the article it’s a load of shite. One “second tier source” saying that Championship clubs wouldn’t vote for it then suddenly its gospel!! If someone came on here saying they’d been told something by a second tier source they’d get slaughtered.

 

 

 

"And on Tuesday night a number of Championship teams told Sportsmail there is no possibility of them voting for a concept which could see six of their number relegated to League One in two years' time."

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

They’re down with the 8 worst teams in the country for next season.  Reasonable chance of promotion this coming season if they recruit well but if they go up to the Championship they would have almost zero chance of promotion the following season - not sure I read that right, were you seriously suggesting they had a chance of being in the Premiership in 2 seasons?!  

 

They're two seasons from the Premiership now (or rather were last seaso, so actually 3 if relegation is confirmed) and would be 2 seasons from the Premiership after reconstruction, so it's not a demotion. In fact it would effectively be a promotion if you assume as of now they're in League Two. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

 

"And on Tuesday night a number of Championship teams told Sportsmail there is no possibility of them voting for a concept which could see six of their number relegated to League One in two years' time."

 

 

Instead they'll vote for six of their number to possibly go out of business in one year. Smart.

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, DC_92 said:

 

"And on Tuesday night a number of Championship teams told Sportsmail there is no possibility of them voting for a concept which could see six of their number relegated to League One in two years' time."

 

Strange that they didn’t say what that number was.  Given that Hearts and ICT will vote for reconstruction, the number could be anything between 1 and 8, so why not just say how many clubs said they wouldn’t vote for it?! It only needs 3 though, so looks like Hibs, etc will be irrelevant anyway and I like Hibs being irrelevant. 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

Turkeys voting for Christmas 

[annushorribilis III]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Instead they'll vote for six of their number to possibly go out of business in one year. Smart.

Yup. 

 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Strange that they didn’t say what that number was.  Given that Hearts and ICT will vote for reconstruction, the number could be anything between 1 and 8, so why not just say how many clubs said they wouldn’t vote for it?! It only needs 3 though, so looks like Hibs, etc will be irrelevant anyway and I like Hibs being irrelevant. 

 

Reminds me of this joke from the Simpsons,

 

 

 

[Ethan Hunt]

8 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

 

"And on Tuesday night a number of Championship teams told Sportsmail there is no possibility of them voting for a concept which could see six of their number relegated to League One in two years' time."

 

Oh good. And who were they? And what number was that number? Not questions for you but that’s just generic pish that you get in articles of this nature. Easy to write as no-one can challenge.

[Ethan Hunt]

37 minutes ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

Championship clubs want to vote themselves out of  existence that's up to them.

And if we can help them there by boycotting away games even better.

[Ethan Hunt]

19 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Clubs should only get a vote if they can confirm their readiness to play closed door games in August. 

Prove their readiness would be better.

[Haringshairband]

This won't get voted through. See you in court.

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

They're two seasons from the Premiership now (or rather were last seaso, so actually 3 if relegation is confirmed) and would be 2 seasons from the Premiership after reconstruction, so it's not a demotion. In fact it would effectively be a promotion if you assume as of now they're in League Two. 

Strange way of looking at it. They were playing Falkirk, Raith, Airdrie, Dumbarton this season - next season they’ll be playing Brechin, Albion Rovers, Stenhousemuir.  They have been put down a league while Cove and Edinburgh City have been promoted - but you’re effectively saying these 2 have been promoted 2 leagues, if you’re saying the rest of the League 2 teams have been promoted! 
 

Anyway, we’re not going to agree on it so I’m saying no more on it.