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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


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Byyy The Light
23 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


I doubt Sky will give a **** about the Highland derby.  Wonder what the viewing figures for that would be?


Personally would rather watch that than Celtic away at Hamilton/Livi/St Mirren but I get I’m in the minority on that 

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5 hours ago, GavK1012 said:

Kudos to folk that can thank Hagar without quoting him and clogging up 👍

 

:clap: to Hagar and :clap: to GavK

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Ethan Hunt
1 hour ago, Jambof3tornado said:

I cant see this getting the support it needs but hope that clubs take time to weigh up the options, doing nothing simply is NOT a path clubs can go down.

 

No matter what this doesnt end tomorrow.

This is the crux of the matter. If it’s not this proposal then what is it? Someone has to come up with something! Doing nothing is not an option here and the quicker the clubs get that into their heads the better. That said, I’d still love to go to court and see the whole of Scottish football come crumbling down. If it goes to court there could well be another bog roll shortage.

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The Future's Maroon

Surely if you were an interloper on here you would check the spelling of Ann before typing....gets right on my wick that, at least try ffs?!

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Saint Jambo
3 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Lawell/Celtic won't care so long as their cash remains (largely unaffected).

Hibs on the other hand .... hardly Dragons Den material when you boot your rival in the baws just so you can take  massive cut in revenue. Fair play tho,  Hibs CAN genuinely say it's not about the money. 

 

I agree about Celtic. I'd imagine that the last thing Lawell and Celtic want is way the season was concluded ending up in court. They want to resist the idea that this title is tainted.

 

In general, I think if reconstruction gets through the Premiership teams it will because they are concerned about Hearts legal case. The paper from Budge has effectively set out that Hearts would be looking for £3-4m minimum in damages, and potentially significantly more if next seasons Championship is disrupted leading to further loss of income. At that point they might well determine that it is too big and costly a risk to be worth taking. That would still leave a question as to whether reconstruction can get through the lower leagues of course.

 

My feeling is that it is still well under 50-50 chance of getting through, especially if it needs an 11-1 vote in the Premiership.

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SectionDJambo
9 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Yeah. Here's just one example

 

 

And all because their pathetic attempts to sabotage the transfer of shares from Lithuania didn’t work.

That and 19/05/12. 

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Ethan Hunt
1 hour ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

Stenny chairman called part of it a fudge from budge. Not helpful

Where did he say that?

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Fozzyonthefence
10 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Yeah. Here's just one example

 

 


Sums it up.  They’re more interested in killing Hearts than saving Scottish football.  They’d be happy to see lots of other clubs die as long as we are one of them.

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1 minute ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Where did he say that?

Interview on bbc Scotland,the nine. Also said the premier teams would likely kick it out.

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TheGoodLord

Think I sort of see now why restructuring will work for Dundee (sorry if I’m slow on the uptake and this has been mentioned) United and ICT out their league and no club from SPL coming down would provide them with best possible chance of promotion. Please tell me they won’t let their vendetta with ICT overrule their vote. Not sure many Championship teams will be keen to send ICT up. 

Edited by TheGoodLord
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20 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Already lots of Hibs and Celtic fans tweeting own Supporter groups and chairmen / directors demanding clubs do not vote for proposal. 🤬😡

 

That inspires me to think they believe it's an epic proposal.  One to be feared, for reason of shame to be looked upon also felt.  I hope they are spewing their cheap takeaways out!

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Stoked if this gets voted through. Hearts spending a matter of weeks in the Championship, how many years did it take Hibs? 
 

And if it gets voted down... The fact it’s even got this far shows the authorities are bricking it from a court case. 

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Pasquale for King
4 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

And all because their pathetic attempts to sabotage the transfer of shares from Lithuania didn’t work.

That and 19/05/12. 

And all the rest, we nearly bought the ***** ffs. Can’t blame them really 😃

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Hearts1975

From what I can see and re the proposals put forward she has done everything that she can to give a clear and fair consensus that either of these proposals put forward are streets ahead of expelling us and the other teams from our respective divisions 

 

I must admit, initially I just wanted AB to steam into the SPFL and everyone in their wake, go legal and go for the jugular ... got to be honest, that’s what emotion does at times. I can see now that she has been playing the long game and if court action happens there is no court in the land could say that she never actively pursued a fair and justified change to the league structure. 

 

As much as she has done this the fact that the SPFL didn’t lead or represent the reconstruction on their own terms is a damning indictment of how culpable they have been 

 

The clubs who can’t afford to play behind closed doors has changed the whole outlook imo and it has strengthened our position in a good number of ways 

 

I feel now that we are holding a very strong deck of cards and looking at it objectively for all the same clubs to vote the way they did 2-3 weeks ago, if they do the same again, there could be a lot of financial pain for them in return 

 

Lets just see who comes out with the correct moral and ethical code and this time when the votes are cast.

 

Much more confident that we will get a positive result from this now. 

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Pasquale for King
2 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

 

That inspires me to think they believe it's an epic proposal.  One to be feared, for reason of shame to be looked upon also felt.  I hope they are spewing their cheap takeaways out!

Cheap takeaways, are you saying they raid the fridge as they burgle someone 😱🤔😜.

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Ethan Hunt
1 minute ago, obua said:

Interview on bbc Scotland,the nine. Also said the premier teams would likely kick it out.

And did he offer an alternative proposal on how to give Scottish football the best chance of survival?

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, Hearts1975 said:

From what I can see and re the proposals put forward she has done everything that she can to give a clear and fair consensus that either of these proposals put forward are streets ahead of expelling us and the other teams from our respective divisions 

 

I must admit, initially I just wanted AB to steam into the SPFL and everyone in their wake, go legal and go for the jugular ... got to be honest, that’s what emotion does at times. I can see now that she has been playing the long game and if court action happens there is no court in the land could say that she never actively pursued a fair and justified change to the league structure. 

 

As much as she has done this the fact that the SPFL didn’t lead or represent the reconstruction on their own terms is a damning indictment of how culpable they have been 

 

The clubs who can’t afford to play behind closed doors has changed the whole outlook imo and it has strengthened our position in a good number of ways 

 

I feel now that we are holding a very strong deck of cards and looking at it objectively for all the same clubs to vote the way they did 2-3 weeks ago, if they do the same again, there could be a lot of financial pain for them in return 

 

Lets just see who comes out with the correct moral and ethical code and this time when the votes are cast.

 

Much more confident that we will get a positive result from this now. 

Absolutely, she’s kept cool and played a blinder, it’s the best and only way to have played it. Now can they be persuaded to vote for it and if not who knows what will happen with a court case.

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Fozzyonthefence
4 minutes ago, TheGoodLord said:

Think I sort of see now why restructuring will work for Dundee (sorry if I’m slow on the uptake and this has been mentioned) United and ICT out their league and no club from SPL coming down would provide them with best possible chance of promotion. Please tell me they won’t let their vendetta with ICT overrule their vote. Not sure many Championship teams will be keen to send ICT up. 


That could be another obstacle.  And their grudge against ICT is what exactly - that they voted no then told the truth about what happened?   Or was it specifically about releasing private WhatsApp messages?

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SectionDJambo
Just now, Pasquale for King said:

And all the rest, we nearly bought the ***** ffs. Can’t blame them really 😃

As someone who endured our record against them in the 70s, I thank Wallace Mercer for starting the dominance of that club, which has caused them far more pain than if he had carried through his takeover. It’s been fun, with the odd hiccup along the way. 

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24 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Yeah. Here's just one example

 

 

The first of many for the wank bank. Lovely

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Rabbie_Burns
40 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

Big bad us, eh? 

 

Trying to "save ourselves" from something that didn't happen under the rules of the competition all the clubs signed up for at the start of the season. 

 

Trying to save ourselves from a corrupt and spiteful vote by bitter shitty little clubs like Hibs and Hamilton.

 

You really couldn't make this pish up. 

 

With bells on !   

 

Well said that man 👏

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2 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

And did he offer an alternative proposal on how to give Scottish football the best chance of survival?

I’m guessing you don’t need me to answer that, he was giving it the usual,I will need to discuss it with my board .

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Pasquale for King
Just now, SectionDJambo said:

As someone who endured our record against them in the 70s, I thank Wallace Mercer for starting the dominance of that club, which has caused them far more pain than if he had carried through his takeover. It’s been fun, with the odd hiccup along the way. 

Thankfully my memory of the 70s isn’t that great as I was a kid, my teenage years and alleged adulthood has largely been successful against them. It’s the only away ground I really like going to, not quite the same now but turning round at the top of Easter Road after another victory looking at our fans celebrating is just a thing of beauty.

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Hearts1975
8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Absolutely, she’s kept cool and played a blinder, it’s the best and only way to have played it. Now can they be persuaded to vote for it and if not who knows what will happen with a court case.

👍

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doctor jambo
17 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Sums it up.  They’re more interested in killing Hearts than saving Scottish football.  They’d be happy to see lots of other clubs die as long as we are one of them.

Save our Hearts, it will never catch on😂

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jamboinglasgow
46 minutes ago, EH23-Jambo said:

Already lots of Hibs and Celtic fans tweeting own Supporter groups and chairmen / directors demanding clubs do not vote for proposal. 🤬😡

 

Hibs and Celtic fans would want their clubs to lose millions if it meant Hearts or Rangers suffering. They care more about their rivals than ultimately themselves.

Edited by jamboinglasgow
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25 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

She didn’t specify what it would be, just that 12th gets 4.5% of the pot and 13th gets 2.6 roughly. It’s a big difference obviously.


Just re-read the proposal. I see what you mean. Yep, that’s where there is a stumbling block right enough. I think that would make it 11-1 instead of 75%. Damn. Far less confident of getting 11 votes from the top flight.

 

“The only change to the current model would arise if Clubs in positions 13 and 14 (ie. the 2 additional Clubs promoted to the Premiership) were to see their percentage share of funds increased to bring them more in line with other Premiership Clubs. Currently, the Club in position 12 receives 4.5% in line with the Premiership Distribution Model. The Club at the top of the Championship receives 2.25% in line with the Championship Model. This proposal suggests increasing the percentage for Clubs 13 and 14 to remove this anomaly.

There are a number of possible options in terms of modifying the distribution table. One possible model is shown in Appendix A, which is based on the Premiership Clubs percentages being varied to accommodate Clubs 13 and 14 in the Premier Division. This model would see no change to the distribution percentages of the non-Premier Division Clubs, in recognition of the fact that many of these Clubs may well be facing serious financial challenges.

This option is suggested since, as stated earlier in this paper, if no restructure is approved and Heart of Midlothian FC remains relegated, then Premiership clubs will be faced with a reduction in funds of £300K to cover the parachute payment.

Additionally, should the 3 relegated teams be offered financial compensation, this will clearly mean less money paid to all Clubs, with any deductions in line with the current distribution table.”

 

She seems to be giving up on the 75% (very achievable aim) in exchange for appealing to the common sense of the other chairmen. She talks about not paying parachute payments, and potentially compo, as well as a drop in income from Hearts supporters attending matches would balance out the loss of money from redistribution to aid teams 13 & 14.

 

Far less confident than when I thought this was 75% needed to pass it.

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Captain Canada

I don't understand why Stenhousemuir are so vocal about it. They're 3rd bottom of league 2 (the 4th division) and therefore 3 promotions away from the top league. 

 

If they go into a new-look bottom tier, this will be the 3rd division, so they will only need two promotions to get to the premier league. 

 

Where's the benefit to them of things staying the same? 

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It remains to be seen how Scottish football decides to play its leagues. 

 

Are the SPFL rules flexible enough to accommodate the various scenarios such as teams not playing / mothballing?

 

Or would that need a vote. I would be proposing to expell any club that can't or won't play. Not accommodate them. 

 

This could be very messy. Up to SPFL to lead this. The Joint Response Group needs to get its plan ready. 

 

A bit off that one club has needed to cut across the whole thing. But SPFL can now help make it happen. 

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1 minute ago, Captain Canada said:

I don't understand why Stenhousemuir are so vocal about it. They're 3rd bottom of league 2 (the 4th division) and therefore 3 promotions away from the top league. 

 

If they go into a new-look bottom tier, this will be the 3rd division, so they will only need two promotions to get to the premier league. 

 

Where's the benefit to them of things staying the same? 


Getting well beaten by Penicuik Athletic maybe focussed their minds a little on what could happen below them, as opposed to above them.

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2 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Just re-read the proposal. I see what you mean. Yep, that’s where there is a stumbling block right enough. I think that would make it 11-1 instead of 75%. Damn. Far less confident of getting 11 votes from the top flight.

 

“The only change to the current model would arise if Clubs in positions 13 and 14 (ie. the 2 additional Clubs promoted to the Premiership) were to see their percentage share of funds increased to bring them more in line with other Premiership Clubs. Currently, the Club in position 12 receives 4.5% in line with the Premiership Distribution Model. The Club at the top of the Championship receives 2.25% in line with the Championship Model. This proposal suggests increasing the percentage for Clubs 13 and 14 to remove this anomaly.

There are a number of possible options in terms of modifying the distribution table. One possible model is shown in Appendix A, which is based on the Premiership Clubs percentages being varied to accommodate Clubs 13 and 14 in the Premier Division. This model would see no change to the distribution percentages of the non-Premier Division Clubs, in recognition of the fact that many of these Clubs may well be facing serious financial challenges.

This option is suggested since, as stated earlier in this paper, if no restructure is approved and Heart of Midlothian FC remains relegated, then Premiership clubs will be faced with a reduction in funds of £300K to cover the parachute payment.

Additionally, should the 3 relegated teams be offered financial compensation, this will clearly mean less money paid to all Clubs, with any deductions in line with the current distribution table.”

 

She seems to be giving up on the 75% (very achievable aim) in exchange for appealing to the common sense of the other chairmen. She talks about not paying parachute payments, and potentially compo, as well as a drop in income from Hearts supporters attending matches would balance out the loss of money from redistribution to aid teams 13 & 14.

 

Far less confident than when I thought this was 75% needed to pass it.

 

I think the SPFL could frame it to make it 9-3.

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Hearts1975
7 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Hibs and Celtic fans would want their clubs to lose millions if it meant Hearts or Rangers suffering. They care more about their rivals than ultimately themselves.

Not necessarily 

Celtic fans are blighted by a self-paranoia that We are a “hun” club and therefore waive our rights to anything which is absolute pish 

Hubs fans, on the other hand, are desperate to see us destroyed, and purely because we have dominated them over the course of history. It hurts their fans, they will never admit that, and would rather put their efforts in trying to get rid of us so they can get some peace moving forward.

No other reason. Bunch of unwashed shitehawks.

 

Edited by Hearts1975
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Captain Canada
1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Getting well beaten by Penicuik Athletic maybe focussed their minds a little on what could happen below them, as opposed to above them.

 

If that's the level of their ambition then heaven help them! 

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21 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Where did he say that?

 

I thought he was just being cheeky.  Looking at the possible meaning of it now, it could be thought more offensive.  Considering what's been going on to this point, radges like him sitting on his hands talking shite on TV>sorry can't rhyme that.

 

Ballax from Wallax

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Ethan Hunt
1 hour ago, GorgieRules22 said:

Has anyone heard from Rangers since they had a case dropped against them last week ?

My opinion. Rangers have gave Hearts the right of way. They’ve allowed (and possibly assisted) AB to get on with the reconstruction proposal as that is more time critical. Regardless of the result of that I think you’ll see them redouble their efforts to get rid of Doncaster. Doncaster’s position is becoming weaker by the minute. He’s shown his neglect by only now speaking to Sky to seek assurances about the TV deal. That should have been done before the original resolution was put on the table and the that reassurance given to clubs. AB has also shown, by the submission of her proposal, that there were alternative resolutions that could, and should, have been put forward which would have protected the interests of all 42 member clubs. She has effectively done Doncaster’s job.

 

Doncaster is a dead man walking. It is only a matter of time. The important business is being taken care of first. The people who caused the mess will be disposed of later.

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Ethan Hunt
17 minutes ago, obua said:

I’m guessing you don’t need me to answer that, he was giving it the usual,I will need to discuss it with my board .

I can’t wait to hear the result!

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Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

I think the SPFL could frame it to make it 9-3.


That was my thought too. Since re-reading it, it definitely looks like it’s 11-1 though. 
 

She did say previously that she had had “very productive talks” with the SPFL board and the member clubs since the proposal was ignored last time... maybe she’s had assurances that this will be a 75% job? 🤷‍♂️

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jamboinglasgow

Ann Budge has put together a great proposal that provides a solution to the problems Scottish football faces and will faces over the coming season. The last week or two has shown the stark reality of how clubs would need to cope and how different clubs may need to adopt different measures. 

 

As others say this is true leadership that the SPFL has required from the start. Unsurprising that Ann is the one showing it as she was the one who was honest about what was coming early on and got pillared for it by pundits who made her out as scaremonger. This should have been a plan that the leadership of the SPFL came up with and brought to the clubs, but they have put Ann in charge of it and made it seem as a "well you are moaning about this, here have a go" initiative. Which means it will be framed as Hearts changing Scottish football just to save their skin, rather than fixing the problems that the SPFL caused and trying to get Scottish football a way through the crisis like the plan actually is.

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6 minutes ago, Captain Canada said:

I don't understand why Stenhousemuir are so vocal about it. They're 3rd bottom of league 2 (the 4th division) and therefore 3 promotions away from the top league. 

 

If they go into a new-look bottom tier, this will be the 3rd division, so they will only need two promotions to get to the premier league. 

 

Where's the benefit to them of things staying the same? 

Exactly, anyone saying this is a negative is deliberately being dense. Teams are either a) getting promoted or b) staying in the same league as they are but with an improved chance of winning promotion next season. 

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Fozzyonthefence
3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

It remains to be seen how Scottish football decides to play its leagues. 

 

Are the SPFL rules flexible enough to accommodate the various scenarios such as teams not playing / mothballing?

 

Or would that need a vote. I would be proposing to expell any club that can't or won't play. Not accommodate them. 

 

This could be very messy. Up to SPFL to lead this. The Joint Response Group needs to get its plan ready. 

 

A bit off that one club has needed to cut across the whole thing. But SPFL can now help make it happen. 


If and when AB’s proposal fails (when is the vote?), Doncaster has an almighty mess to sort out - not only probable legal action but presumably he will have to sort out some sort of reconstruction for the clubs who actually want to play now. He must be praying this gets voted through. 
 

One potential problem I can see with this proposal though - should we not have found out how many clubs can afford to play behind closed doors before deciding on leagues and numbers?  What if only a handful of clubs want to play in the bottom league or even the Championship? 14-14-14 would be pointless then.

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Rick Sanchez
3 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

Never mind the Premiership, it seems to have no chance of passing in the Championship.

 

 

That's fine. If any of them can't/refuse to play next season they should be 'torpedoed' straight out of the league set up.

 

That or fold, I couldn't give a toss.

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Pasquale for King
17 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Just re-read the proposal. I see what you mean. Yep, that’s where there is a stumbling block right enough. I think that would make it 11-1 instead of 75%. Damn. Far less confident of getting 11 votes from the top flight.

 

“The only change to the current model would arise if Clubs in positions 13 and 14 (ie. the 2 additional Clubs promoted to the Premiership) were to see their percentage share of funds increased to bring them more in line with other Premiership Clubs. Currently, the Club in position 12 receives 4.5% in line with the Premiership Distribution Model. The Club at the top of the Championship receives 2.25% in line with the Championship Model. This proposal suggests increasing the percentage for Clubs 13 and 14 to remove this anomaly.

There are a number of possible options in terms of modifying the distribution table. One possible model is shown in Appendix A, which is based on the Premiership Clubs percentages being varied to accommodate Clubs 13 and 14 in the Premier Division. This model would see no change to the distribution percentages of the non-Premier Division Clubs, in recognition of the fact that many of these Clubs may well be facing serious financial challenges.

This option is suggested since, as stated earlier in this paper, if no restructure is approved and Heart of Midlothian FC remains relegated, then Premiership clubs will be faced with a reduction in funds of £300K to cover the parachute payment.

Additionally, should the 3 relegated teams be offered financial compensation, this will clearly mean less money paid to all Clubs, with any deductions in line with the current distribution table.”

 

She seems to be giving up on the 75% (very achievable aim) in exchange for appealing to the common sense of the other chairmen. She talks about not paying parachute payments, and potentially compo, as well as a drop in income from Hearts supporters attending matches would balance out the loss of money from redistribution to aid teams 13 & 14.

 

Far less confident than when I thought this was 75% needed to pass it.

We can only hope, and as the prize money is increased a small change in % should still see a bigger amount paid out anyway. 

Edited by Pasquale for King
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annushorribilis III
7 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

Never mind the Premiership, it seems to have no chance of passing in the Championship.

 

 

'In two years' time this plan could potentially mean six clubs being relegated.

******************************************************************************

In two years time a lot of clubs might  have gone out of existence. 

It's unbelievable that proposals to recon and save clubs might be kicked into touch because of  something that MIGHT happen in two years time. 

Strachan's recent words have never been more relevant.

 

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Fozzyonthefence
Just now, Anything2 said:

Exactly, anyone saying this is a negative is deliberately being dense. Teams are either a) getting promoted or b) staying in the same league as they are but with an improved chance of winning promotion next season. 


Not really, the likes of Stranraer will be getting put down to the bottom league to play the weaker teams from League 2 who they would not be playing had they been saved by a 14-10-10-10 reconstruction. I’d be amazed if they’re saying anything positive about it. Why would you not see it as a demotion if you’re playing weaker opposition?  Granted, they should have a better chance of promotion next season but there are stronger teams than them coming down with them too (but most of them will be releasing nearly all their players anyway).

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, stuart500 said:

Big bad us, eh? 

 

Trying to "save ourselves" from something that didn't happen under the rules of the competition all the clubs signed up for at the start of the season. 

 

Trying to save ourselves from a corrupt and spiteful vote by bitter shitty little clubs like Hibs and Hamilton.

 

You really couldn't make this pish up. 

 

It's genuinely like they think "Well they fell in the water themselves (even though it was a freak wave that turned the boat over) so they should just sink and not try to grasp any way to save themselves. Oh, and we should just watch from the sidelines and cheer."

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  • jkbmod 9 changed the title to SPFL declare league (2019/20) due to Covid (Arbitration panel upholds SPFL decision )
  • davemclaren changed the title to SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

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