SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Fozzyonthefence]

21 minutes ago, avhudtheteeshirt said:

Loved the bit in this mornings paper saying that the may postpone any Celtic V Rangers game until crowds allowed in to stadiums???

If that is not duopoly I don't know what is!!!!

Has anyone attempted to explain why yet?

[luckydug]

8 hours ago, johnnythejambo said:

As a season ticket from the early 70's I look with amusement at the folk wanting an 18 or 16 team league playing each other just twice. Well we had an 18 team league back then and boy it was not exciting if you were stuck in the middle of it. Pretty boring in fact. And another thing as a season ticket holder the games that excite me and get the atmosphere going is the ones against the old firm, wee team and possibly the sheep so to advocate halving those games fills me with dread. So instead of fired up, get into then games we replace with matches against Morton, Queen of South etc. Jesus no thanks!!!

I tend to agree with this. 

The old 18 team league produced a lot of nothing at stake games if you were stuck mid table. 

That was before the ST culture took effect and produced some of the lowest attendances in our history. 

If you think about it, two teams challenging for the title then at the most four teams playing for European places then maybe five teams fighting relegation. If you happen to be mid table there is nothing to play for especially if you go out the Cup early. 

It might well be that we will need a larger top league as that's the only way we'll be able to offer fans of surviving clubs some football. 

No way it should be a permanent set up though imo. 

[Ethan Hunt]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

Surely the game is about being entertained. The meaningless games argument is the tool of anyone not wanting some already pitiful amount of money diluted imo.

I want to see Hearts win every game they therefore no game is meaningless to me.

[gavin1985]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

I tend to agree with this. 

The old 18 team league produced a lot of nothing at stake games if you were stuck mid table. 

That was before the ST culture took effect and produced some of the lowest attendances in our history. 

If you think about it, two teams challenging for the title then at the most four teams playing for European places then maybe five teams fighting relegation. If you happen to be mid table there is nothing to play for especially if you go out the Cup early. 

It might well be that we will need a larger top league as that's the only way we'll be able to offer fans of surviving clubs some football. 

No way it should be a permanent set up though imo. 

Also is the attendance factor not down to stadium criteria too? 
 

Either way I won’t be shocked if we continue to have 4 times a season games. It literally does nothing for me.

 

Is it not the whole point to finish as high in the league as possible? So in theory no game should be “meaningless”. 
 

What we need to bare in mind is the introduction of another Europe cup, so that’s another qualification place in the league to play for. 
 

18 teams now sounds more like the best case. 
 

The argument for but “Sky deal”, that needs to be renegotiated no matter what.

[OldGorgie]

51 minutes ago, ExPatTam said:

 

Many on here need to accept that we were relegated. The players have relegation clauses in their contracts meaning we can scale back their wages. If we were expelled then we can’t contractually alter the contracts as ‘we were not relegated’. 

ExTimPat- what a lot of HibbieCeltic tosh you spout.

[jamboinglasgow]

The fact a 16 team league with other leagues being mothballed until January suggests that clubs are starting to get to grips with how serious this is. 

 

On another note, I see Ross County announcing players leaving, only 3 first team players but they are releasing 10 reserve players. I could a lot of fringe players being released by clubs.

[milky_26]

58 minutes ago, Mundaydog said:

16, 16, 16.

3 leagues.

If they can’t start Aug/Sep then mothball 2 & 3 until a Medical review in late October for a potential start in January.

 

Premiership as is with top 4 from championship added. 
6 remaining championship joined by 8 from league 1. Remaining league 1 clubs joined by league 2 clubs & 2 Junior clubs.

If you look at how that splits out, at least for the upcoming season, leagues 2 & 3 become quite regional (less travelling).

As it stands now with 12 Premiership Clubs joined by top 4 Championship clubs there could potentially be
Celtic v Rangers
Hearts v Hibs
Dundee v Utd
ICT v Ross county
Motherwell v Hamilton
Killie v Ayr
And even kiddy on rivalries like Dundee v Aberdeen, Dundee v st Johnstone, utd v Aberdeen, utd v st Johnstone, hearts v Aberdeen.

 

Then if starting in Aug/Sep or January, a revised 16 team championship would have Pars, Raith, East Fife and Arbroath, Montrose plus others like Falkirk, Partick, QoS.

 

If your a supporter of a smaller club, how many of those local rivalries are meaningless to you?

erm, that is 16-14-14 not 16-16-16

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, ExPatTam said:

 

Many on here need to accept that we were relegated. The players have relegation clauses in their contracts meaning we can scale back their wages. If we were expelled then we can’t contractually alter the contracts as ‘we were not relegated’. 

Sniff

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, indianajones said:

Place reeks again. 

Rentokil should’ve been called in days ago. This thread is absolutely infested, and the interlopers think they haven’t been noticed.

[Rabbie_Burns]

1 hour ago, ExPatTam said:

 

Many on here need to accept that we were relegated. The players have relegation clauses in their contracts meaning we can scale back their wages. If we were expelled then we can’t contractually alter the contracts as ‘we were not relegated’. 

 

Wham bam, aye right Tam 😉

[Mikey1874]

26 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

I’d disagree with that to a degree. The number of times teams have to play the old firm definitely reduces the chances of a team winning the league. Of course finance players a part, and a big part, but there are other reasons as well.

 

Didn’t stop Aberdeen and Dundee United

 

4 leagues in 6 years (very nearly 5 in 7)

 

10 team league

[Craig Herbertson]

Prize money could be reduced at the top and increased at the bottom end with a stipulation that the greater portion of money is allocated to ground development. The SPFL and SFA could review which clubs have the capacity to develop their grounds. Those that can could be supported.  Clubs that couldn't enlarge their capacity and improve their facilities would have to accept that it was not  possibile to progress much further in the higher leagues. This would not be unfair, just realistic. That could create a 16 team league home and away. Bigger home crowds against the bigger teams  would help the smaller clubs financially to compete. Everone would only play the old firm twice a piece. We could set a three year plan after which we  review it. Anything in fact would be better that this monster with two heads.

 

 

[gavin1985]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Didn’t stop Aberdeen and Dundee United

 

4 leagues in 6 years (very nearly 5 in 7)

 

10 team league

And how long ago was that??

[Montgomery Brewster]

8 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Rentokil should’ve been called in days ago. This thread is absolutely infested, and the interlopers think they haven’t been noticed.

They will all crawl back under their stones soon enough. Vermin welts

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, gavin1985 said:

And how long ago was that??

The of now have 5 x our income so comparisons are not valid

[Deevers]

1 hour ago, ExPatTam said:

 

Many on here need to accept that we were relegated. The players have relegation clauses in their contracts meaning we can scale back their wages. If we were expelled then we can’t contractually alter the contracts as ‘we were not relegated’. 

The only people I know that use the word relegated in a Hearts context are not Hearts people. We have not been relegated - if the SPFL have their way it’s an expulsion.

[gavin1985]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

The of now have 5 x our income so comparisons are not valid

Which is exactly why the arguments of but it didn’t stop Aberdeen and Dundee United 30 odd years ago should stop. 
 

10 teams, 12 teams, 14 teams, no matter how you paint it. If you play the OF 3/4 times a season it will suck. 
 

The spilt is a waste of space, playing teams 4 times a season is beyond dire. The argument of Sky needs is 4 OF must stop, the “meaningless” games argument needs to stop.

[bobskeldon]

1 minute ago, gavin1985 said:

Which is exactly why the arguments of but it didn’t stop Aberdeen and Dundee United 30 odd years ago should stop. 
 

10 teams, 12 teams, 14 teams, no matter how you paint it. If you play the OF 3/4 times a season it will suck. 
 

The spilt is a waste of space, playing teams 4 times a season is beyond dire. The argument of Sky needs is 4 OF must stop, the “meaningless” games argument needs to stop.

👍

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Didn’t stop Aberdeen and Dundee United

 

4 leagues in 6 years (very nearly 5 in 7)

 

10 team league

 

 

That was 35 years ago and not long (relative) after the league set up changed. 

 

Since the 80's the decline at club level and national level is clear, add in 2 winners of the league in 35 years I don't see any football argument against change. 

 

The argument is all about prize money and 4 of games, not a football one. 

 

Every other country has a bigger league and at club level and national level seem to surpass us, the small, uncompetitive league must be a factor. 

 

Playing a team 4 times a season is shite Imo, there is a reason most leagues don't do it. 

 

 

 

 

 

[hmfc_steve]

1 minute ago, gavin1985 said:

Which is exactly why the arguments of but it didn’t stop Aberdeen and Dundee United 30 odd years ago should stop. 
 

10 teams, 12 teams, 14 teams, no matter how you paint it. If you play the OF 3/4 times a season it will suck. 
 

The spilt is a waste of space, playing teams 4 times a season is beyond dire. The argument of Sky needs is 4 OF must stop, the “meaningless” games argument needs to stop.

The OF could play each other home and away for the SKY trophy if that's what they need ?

[Mundaydog]

1 hour ago, MTS1874 said:

 

It’s a great idea but if it doesn’t include Rangers v Celtic x 4 there’s no way Sky will agree to it unfortunately. 

I know. So disappointing 

[Ethan Hunt]

16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Didn’t stop Aberdeen and Dundee United

 

4 leagues in 6 years (very nearly 5 in 7)

 

10 team league

You are talking about two exceptional sides at that time. One won the Cup Winners Cup, and the other made the semi final of the European Cup. Both also had exceptional managers. It was very much a moment in time for both those clubs.

[Rods]

When is it confirmed we are moving to a court case 

[Mundaydog]

31 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

erm, that is 16-14-14 not 16-16-16

Lol 😂 my maths is terrible. Yeah 16-14-14. 42 plus 2 from juniors

[Beast Boy]

22 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Didn’t stop Aberdeen and Dundee United

 

4 leagues in 6 years (very nearly 5 in 7)

 

10 team league

Pre-Bosman, transfer windows, agents and TV money. Both teams would have been picked apart by the OF using their greater financial clout, and tapping up to get for free.

[DETTY29]

53 minutes ago, south morocco said:

I get what you're saying but are the penalties by definition actually the act of  being leapfrogged? I don't know. myself !!   What happens to these clubs once normality creeps back. AB has said on record no club should be penalised or disadvantaged by Covid. 

Yep.

 

Its a unique position and v.difficult to get a fair solution.

 

But if a club tries to take advantage of leap frogging, there needs to be consequences of not carrying out commitments.

 

It is like a virtual league of a continually moving position.

 

 

 

 

[Byyy The Light]

13 minutes ago, hmfc_steve said:

The OF could play each other home and away for the SKY trophy if that's what they need ?

In total agreement with this. Call it the Sectarian Cup. This is the kind of forward thinking leadership we need in Scottish football to highlight how pathetic the whole thing is. It’s the sort of thing that would get my vote in FOH elections. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Byyy The Light said:

In total agreement with this. Call it the Sectarian Cup. This is the kind of forward thinking leadership we need in Scottish football to highlight how pathetic the whole thing is. It’s the sort of thing that would get my vote in FOH elections. 

The 1690 trophy has a ring to it?!?!

[jock _turd]

1 hour ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Sky, like thousands of other companies, will be doing everything they can to attract as many customers as possible back to using their service. I cancelled my Sky subscription several years ago and they hounded me for months to return, and that was during ‘normal’ times. Many millions of households will see TV subscriptions as a luxury item now, and going forward, as everyone continues to be financially hit by the effects of COVID19. I’d be amazed if Sky didn’t have a keen interest in how the Scottish Premiership will look when football starts back up. They need the Premiership to be able to attract as many viewers as possible whether that be on yearly subscriptions, or 24 hours passes.

 

Sky might not care about Scottish football, but they care about money.

I have no argument about Sky wanting money that is why they are in business. What I really have trouble squaring up is how Hearts actually fit into the picture. This sudden thinking that we must make up some part of the SPL is new to the board of the SPFL. They were more than happy to just get the tic appointed champions by any means available to them. Now we are all hoping that suddenly Sky have realised we are a must have in the SPL when it gets going again. The only real problem I have with that is are the other teams suddenly going to say " but of course what were we thinking of when we blew that one out of the water last week without even a presentation being made". There can be no reconstruction without the right vote and I really doubt that will be achieved ... unless there are other caveats we do not know about going on in the background?

 

I think we are going to have to go to court to get anything at all nevermind a reconstruction of the leagues but we live in hope.

[Skivingatwork]

The issue for me isn’t around the number of teams in the league. It can be argued either way that a smaller or larger league is better or worse for competition.

 

As a previous poster mentioned, the biggest change came when 3 points for a win was introduced. 

 

Under 2 points for a win, a draw would keep you in touch if the team above you won. Even 2 draws keeps you within 1 win if your rivals pick up maximum points. The same scenario under 3 points for a win has you 4 behind and 2 games back.

 

In recent years celtic have been the dominant side and their sheer number of wins usually means they’re way out in front and the league is finished by Christmas.

 

A return to 2 points would make things closer in terms of points. Whether this would help with the competitiveness of the league is another question and it’s very unlikely to get voted through. However, if we are genuinely looking at the Scottish top flight as a product then all options should be on the table for discussion and debate.
 

 

 

 

[WorldChampions1902]

5 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

I think we are going to have to go to court to get anything at all nevermind a reconstruction of the leagues but we live in hope.

If we need to have our day in court, so be it. At least we will be there on the basis of a strong case and fighting to the last, for justice.
 

“Better to have lived one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a sheep”. Just a shame that it was Mussolini that said it, but the sentiment is bang on.

[Mikey1874]

43 minutes ago, gavin1985 said:

And how long ago was that??

. 

Until the big money started to come in for Rangers then Celtic. 

[Stendelnator]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

There’s always suspicion of new posters coming on here during times of upheaval for the club. It does happen from time to time that fans from rivals pretend to be hearts fans. 

 

What football team do you support?

Hearts of Midlothian from Gorgy who play at Tinecastle. 
 

I sit in row 40 of the Wheatfield. (I wonder if anyone will get that reference)

[Mikey1874]

31 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

You are talking about two exceptional sides at that time. One won the Cup Winners Cup, and the other made the semi final of the European Cup. Both also had exceptional managers. It was very much a moment in time for both those clubs.

 

But its what you need to win leagues. 

 

It's the template. 

[Rods]

The Ayr chairmen saying there should be government assistance because of the pandemic.

 

Not long after he says there should be no reconstruction because of the pandemic.

 

You can’t win 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:

Hearts of Midlothian from Gorgy who play at Tinecastle. 
 

I sit in row 40 of the Wheatfield. (I wonder if anyone will get that reference)

There is no row 40, not sure if that’s what you mean? There is at Easter Road in that ramshackle east stand?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, Rods said:

The Ayr chairmen saying there should be government assistance because of the pandemic.

 

Not long after he says there should be no reconstruction because of the pandemic.

 

You can’t win 

That boy makes cretins look like professors.

[superjack]

10 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:

Hearts of Midlothian from Gorgy who play at Tinecastle. 
 

I sit in row 40 of the Wheatfield. (I wonder if anyone will get that reference)

Are you watching from guildford?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

There is no row 40, not sure if that’s what you mean? There is at Easter Road in that ramshackle east stand?

Er, no.

 

Look up Guildford Jambo, a vermin who outed himself over Craig Thomson in delightful fashion when he claimed his ST was in Row 36 of the Wheatfield!

[Byyy The Light]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The 1690 trophy has a ring to it?!?!

They could hold it around marching season and make it a big build up on Sky. Go the whole hog. 

[Lone Striker]

8 minutes ago, Rods said:

The Ayr chairmen saying there should be government assistance because of the pandemic.

 

Not long after he says there should be no reconstruction because of the pandemic.

 

You can’t win 

Ayr now moving up the Boycott League table. 😎

[mitch41]

12 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:

Hearts of Midlothian from Gorgy who play at Tinecastle. 
 

I sit in row 40 of the Wheatfield. (I wonder if anyone will get that reference)

[milky_26]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Er, no.

 

Look up Guildford Jambo, a vermin who outed himself over Craig Thomson in delightful fashion when he claimed his ST was in Row 36 of the Wheatfield!

does anyone have the pic someone made adding a row 40 to the wheatfield

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Er, no.

 

Look up Guildford Jambo, a vermin who outed himself over Craig Thomson in delightful fashion when he claimed his ST was in Row 36 of the Wheatfield!

Must’ve missed that 👍🏽

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

They could hold it around marching season and make it a big build up on Sky. Go the whole hog. 

Definitely, a hate fuelled curtain raiser to further denigrate the game and the country all around the world. 

[jr ewing]

A rugby league playoff system after home and away games would give you a more exciting competition. 

[Victorian]

The Ross County arsehole is another one.    His message to us is "**** ye,   it's all your own fault".    But his message about the Championship is about supposedly being horrified about a reduced schedule.

 

Is the zeitgeist that everyone is entitled to not be unduly damaged by a pandemic... apart from us?     That we somehow,   knowingly and willfully,   forfeited our right to be treated like other clubs?    By spending money.    By being a big club?    By getting things wrong on the field and in the boardroom.

 

 

[Byyy The Light]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

The Ross County arsehole is another one.    His message to us is "**** ye,   it's all your own fault".    But his message about the Championship is about supposedly being horrified about a reduced schedule.

 

Is the zeitgeist that everyone is entitled to not be unduly damaged by a pandemic... apart from us?     That we somehow,   knowingly and willfully,   forfeited our right to be treated like other clubs?    By spending money.    By being a big club?    By getting things wrong on the field and in the boardroom.

 

 

I think Ann’s previous comments about her time spent on the SPFL board put a few noses out of joint. They’re revelling in this and viewing it as karma. That’s my take anyway. Small minded Are Souls. 

[Byyy The Light]

16 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely, a hate fuelled curtain raiser to further denigrate the game and the country all around the world. 

All in the spirit of passion and special atmosphere of course. 

[Randy Marsh]

18 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Must’ve missed that 👍🏽

One of the greatest ever kickback threads.😂 It was right after we got thumped off spurs.  The thread title was Gomes Gloves I think.