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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


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2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I honestly would prefer court. I know it won't happen if reconstruction goes through but I'd rather call bullshit on the whole setup.

I completely agree as long as we are properly advised to take that route after failed recon, again, there has to be some devious corrupt stuff which can be uncovered under oath, this seems like it could be a great opportunity to expose this and just maybe level the playing field some!

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Tommy Brown
2 hours ago, Jambo66 said:

What excites me is the possibility of winning the league.

 

 

Was a good post, mate.

 

Your first sentence is unfortunately, the genie that is out of bottle.

 

The ruling club have got the whole set-up so stitched up, that any radical change is nearly impossible.

 

I always felt 14 was the natural step to forming a bigger league. I had never factored in, that a minimum of 3x OF home games was too vital for most clubs.

Edited by Tommy Brown
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Unknown user
3 hours ago, johnnythejambo said:

As a season ticket from the early 70's I look with amusement at the folk wanting an 18 or 16 team league playing each other just twice. Well we had an 18 team league back then and boy it was not exciting if you were stuck in the middle of it. Pretty boring in fact. And another thing as a season ticket holder the games that excite me and get the atmosphere going is the ones against the old firm, wee team and possibly the sheep so to advocate halving those games fills me with dread. So instead of fired up, get into then games we replace with matches against Morton, Queen of South etc. Jesus no thanks!!!

Glad it amuses you johnny! But the fact is that in such a small country we don't have enough decent sized teams to make a perfect solution, not that one exists anyway.

The current set up is stale. I think a change to something a bit different would be better, even if it's not necessarily loads better in itself - we need a change. 

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3 hours ago, johnnythejambo said:

As a season ticket from the early 70's I look with amusement at the folk wanting an 18 or 16 team league playing each other just twice. Well we had an 18 team league back then and boy it was not exciting if you were stuck in the middle of it. Pretty boring in fact. And another thing as a season ticket holder the games that excite me and get the atmosphere going is the ones against the old firm, wee team and possibly the sheep so to advocate halving those games fills me with dread. So instead of fired up, get into then games we replace with matches against Morton, Queen of South etc. Jesus no thanks!!!

100% right 

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4 hours ago, johnnythejambo said:

As a season ticket from the early 70's I look with amusement at the folk wanting an 18 or 16 team league playing each other just twice. Well we had an 18 team league back then and boy it was not exciting if you were stuck in the middle of it. Pretty boring in fact. And another thing as a season ticket holder the games that excite me and get the atmosphere going is the ones against the old firm, wee team and possibly the sheep so to advocate halving those games fills me with dread. So instead of fired up, get into then games we replace with matches against Morton, Queen of South etc. Jesus no thanks!!!

I’ve been watching Hearts since late 50’s and a season ticket holder. The reason being I like watching Hearts play, no matter who they are playing against. The atmosphere in matches against the Uglies and Hibs is positively poisonous and not one I would want to take my children/grandchildren to. 

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1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I honestly would prefer court. I know it won't happen if reconstruction goes through but I'd rather call bullshit on the whole setup.

Exactly where I am with this. A court action would expose the rotten core at the heart of the SPFL and the ulterior motives of some once and for all.We might even see its end and a new fair competent totally transparent  organisation arise Phoenix like from the ashes.

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4 hours ago, johnnythejambo said:

As a season ticket from the early 70's I look with amusement at the folk wanting an 18 or 16 team league playing each other just twice. Well we had an 18 team league back then and boy it was not exciting if you were stuck in the middle of it. Pretty boring in fact. And another thing as a season ticket holder the games that excite me and get the atmosphere going is the ones against the old firm, wee team and possibly the sheep so to advocate halving those games fills me with dread. So instead of fired up, get into then games we replace with matches against Morton, Queen of South etc. Jesus no thanks!!!

 

My stepdad has been going to matches since the 50s and he preferred the larger division. Just goes to show you, eh?
 

I remember the ten team top division and it was absolute ****ing bobbins. Playing the same over-inflated beyond their means Kilmarnock or Motherwell teams up to six times a season with cups? Exhilarating stuff. Apart from one season in 1998 where we challenged for the title, it was honking. Can’t help but wonder whether we might have won the league that season if we hadn’t had to play the OF four times each? Maybe not, but it’ll always be a slight niggle for me.

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4 hours ago, johnnythejambo said:

As a season ticket from the early 70's I look with amusement at the folk wanting an 18 or 16 team league playing each other just twice. Well we had an 18 team league back then and boy it was not exciting if you were stuck in the middle of it. Pretty boring in fact. And another thing as a season ticket holder the games that excite me and get the atmosphere going is the ones against the old firm, wee team and possibly the sheep so to advocate halving those games fills me with dread. So instead of fired up, get into then games we replace with matches against Morton, Queen of South etc. Jesus no thanks!!!

All fair points but for me just about every league in europe has boring mid table games come the end of the season. It’s only ever exciting at the top or bottom. The split is just ridiculous and the game needs a shot in the arm, playing the same teams over and over again is just mind numbing. 

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Captain Sausage

Will be interesting to see what happens this week. If the threat of legal action and a hold on the start of next season is enough to push clubs into accepting reconstruction, I’ll be surprised. 
 

All we’ve seen to date is self interest rule the day, so I expect we will see the reconstruction rejected fairly convincingly. It’s then up to Budge to proceed with a legal case and try her best to put clubs to the wall. 
 

At the end of the day, the only place where the truth will actually be discovered is in court, and it’s my hope that Doncaster and McLennan know this and will beg, borrow and steal to ensure reconstruction is passed. 

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David McCaig
8 hours ago, Bunny Munro said:

The Sun are saying that we are going for a 14-10-10-10 model, for two years, and a vote to take place after one year to keep it or revert back. 

 

They suggest that the championship may block it to spite Inverness. I'm personally concerned about the league 2 clubs blocking it as they prefer 14-14-14.

 

Another article suggests that he spfl are looking at one league of 16 of clubs need mothballed. Or two leagues of 14 with one starting in Jan.

I don't think Championship clubs are in a financial position to do anything other than what they are told at the moment!!

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1 minute ago, Captain Sausage said:

Will be interesting to see what happens this week. If the threat of legal action and a hold on the start of next season is enough to push clubs into accepting reconstruction, I’ll be surprised. 
 

All we’ve seen to date is self interest rule the day, so I expect we will see the reconstruction rejected fairly convincingly. It’s then up to Budge to proceed with a legal case and try her best to put clubs to the wall. 
 

At the end of the day, the only place where the truth will actually be discovered is in court, and it’s my hope that Doncaster and McLennan know this and will beg, borrow and steal to ensure reconstruction is passed. 

I’ll bet that there is a fair degree of arm twisting going on.  I think that the problem is the intelligence level of some of the people running some of these clubs. Spite and malice seem be over riding common sense and fair play. 
 

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jock _turd
1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I honestly would prefer court. I know it won't happen if reconstruction goes through but I'd rather call bullshit on the whole setup.

 

It will have to be court as there is absolutely no chance that reconstruction will be votes through. The way the votes are counted and the percentage of votes required is just totally weighted to there being no change. If it was just a case of the whole SPFL membership voting for or against for a greater than 50% or even 60% in favour then there may just be a slim hope, however that would be just too sensible and simple. Here we could see a vote where every team in the SPFL with the exception of  four SPL teams vote for and the resolution still fail... you have to ask what the F'k is the point of voting?

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David McCaig
5 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

It will have to be court as there is absolutely no chance that reconstruction will be votes through. The way the votes are counted and the percentage of votes required is just totally weighted to there being no change. If it was just a case of the whole SPFL membership voting for or against for a greater than 50% or even 60% in favour then there may just be a slim hope, however that would be just too sensible and simple. Here we could see a vote where every team in the SPFL with the exception of  four SPL teams vote for and the resolution still fail... you have to ask what the F'k is the point of voting?

I still think the kingmaker in this could be Sky. If they want us in a Top 14, there will be a top 14.

 

All Sky need to do is call in the rebate they are owed for last season and Scottish football collapses.

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Captain Sausage
7 minutes ago, Deevers said:

I’ll bet that there is a fair degree of arm twisting going on.  I think that the problem is the intelligence level of some of the people running some of these clubs. Spite and malice seem be over riding common sense and fair play. 
 


Absolutely. Just listening to some of the chairmen on the radio - it’s a sad indictment. Half of them struggle to string a sentence together and they’re clearly driven by personal vendettas rather than how we can make this situation a turning point in Scottish football (for the better, they’re doing a good job of making this the point at which Scottish football collapses)

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jock _turd
Just now, David McCaig said:

I still think the kingmaker in this could be Sky. If they want us in a Top 14, there will be a top 14.

 

All Sky need to do is call in the rebate they are owed for last season and Scottish football collapses.

 

Why would they though? A new 14 team division would not make a huge difference to their viewing numbers would it? You would essentially be bringing up  two teams that have never had a decent following and they will lose little from Hearts going down.

I stick by my prediction we will see them in court. Let's put it this way IF Sky are that desperate for money why not just ask for their dosh ? They are not going to make millions from Hearts and the two teams that would be coming up are they?

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Apologies, quick question, SKY were due another 8 or 9 games this season to broadcast, will they ask for these for next season  and negate any payback, also more choice with a bigger league ? 

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Seymour M Hersh
7 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

He managed it though.

 

Quite a successful one if he's retired to the Côte d'Azur.

 

Personally I'd have preferred retiring on Cote de Pablo. :oohmatron:

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David McCaig
1 minute ago, jock _turd said:

 

Why would they though? A new 14 team division would not make a huge difference to their viewing numbers would it? You would essentially be bringing up  two teams that have never had a decent following and they will lose little from Hearts going down.

I stick by my prediction we will see them in court. Let's put it this way IF Sky are that desperate for money why not just ask for their dosh ? They are not going to make millions from Hearts and the two teams that would be coming up are they?

Hearts = 8 of their most viewed fixtures.

 

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jock _turd
Just now, David McCaig said:

Hearts = 8 of their most viewed fixtures.

 

 

I really doubt that the will lose any sleep over Hearts not being in the SPL. If they even had a preference we would not be where we are  at now. Don't get me wrong I like what you are saying but if Sky really do want Hearts in the SPL surely they would have stated that at the outset ? I don't think they gave it much thought I think that they were happy with Dundee Utd coming up to take our place and perhaps thought that if Utd made an impact they would cover any possible loses. 

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, whyskey said:

100% right 

 

He's not actually. The poster who suggests only having to play the OF twice each is closer to correct. The arse cheeks know how much of an advantage it is to them to be playing the rest of us 3/4 times each season. Take Hamilton's win at Ibrox, that hurts der hun far more if they are only playing them twice. The current set up still allows for another 6 -9 points to be won most likely. Where the rest of us are taking points off each other, historically,  those two tend to be racking the points up. 

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Just now, jock _turd said:

 

I really doubt that the will lose any sleep over Hearts not being in the SPL. If they even had a preference we would not be where we are  at now. Don't get me wrong I like what you are saying but if Sky really do want Hearts in the SPL surely they would have stated that at the outset ? I don't think they gave it much thought I think that they were happy with Dundee Utd coming up to take our place and perhaps thought that if Utd made an impact they would cover any possible loses. 

I don’t think that Sky would see their name dragged through the court as being acceptable and that is bound to be part of our legal argument I would think. Being linked in any way with an organisation working in a less than legal way and Doncaster and pals being publicly outed for some of the shenanigans that have gone on would be less than palatable to them. I am pretty sure they will have been making their feelings on this abundantly clear to Doncaster and McLennan. A ten million liability might well be quite a stick to bludgeon some of the more thick chairmen  of clubs into line.

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5 hours ago, johnnythejambo said:

As a season ticket from the early 70's I look with amusement at the folk wanting an 18 or 16 team league playing each other just twice. Well we had an 18 team league back then and boy it was not exciting if you were stuck in the middle of it. Pretty boring in fact. And another thing as a season ticket holder the games that excite me and get the atmosphere going is the ones against the old firm, wee team and possibly the sheep so to advocate halving those games fills me with dread. So instead of fired up, get into then games we replace with matches against Morton, Queen of South etc. Jesus no thanks!!!

And playing the same teams 4 times a season is super duper exciting. 

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BelgeJambo

Quick question, when do the current members of the SPFL come up for re-election?  Surely now that the season has been called, Gray, Robertson and the rest should either be re-elected or replaced?

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So the timeline today is:

 

AM - 10 Championship clubs Zoom meeting.

 

PM - Presentation of Member’s Resolution to all 42 club.

 

Then they all go off and think about it, before coming back together to vote on the resolution a few days later. Is that correct?

 

If so, then I think the goalposts are about to change, and the resolution will be about the clubs splitting in to who can play a full season, who can play a shortened season behind closed doors, and who can’t play any kind of season behind closed doors and need to mothball.

 

It will then come down to whether or not consensus can be reached on some teams leap frogging each other in either direction to play in the division they are equipped to handle. Maybe this is where the permanent reconstruction teams will get their way? After we temporarily restructure to protect clubs by putting them where they are best placed to survive the crisis for a season, we then permanently restructure the divisions and start again from scratch. Still a minefield, and you have to factor in the stupid embarrassing ten/eleven in a row shit, and SKY deal etc, but I don’t see how else a resolution could tick enough boxes to be be passed.

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10 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:


sums up their mindset. And also add in the lost ticket revenue when we come back up as they can fek themselves if they think we will fill that end again. #neverforget


When I questioned a Hibs acquaintance on their NO vote he said the decision was “morals over money”! 🤪

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Leveins Battalion

This morning the Daily Record or Keith Jackson in particular could of chosen to report how the Foundation of Hearts has gained more that 800 new and increased pledgers.

 

Instead he has ignored that and stated the end is near for Heart of Midlothian.🤣🤣

 

Seriously.

 

Mainstream media is dead.

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9 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


I agree with the sentiment but £500k?  Where are you getting that from, especially  as it might be only one derby at ER?

 

Difference between 6th and 7th was £130k.   
 

You’re right though, they will vote to make sure we go down. 
 


Sorry the total was £500k for league prize money + Derby revenue.

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TyphoonJambo
4 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

This morning the Daily Record or Keith Jackson in particular could of chosen to report how the Foundation of Hearts has gained more that 800 new and increased pledgers.

 

Instead he has ignored that and stated the end is near for Heart of Midlothian.🤣🤣

 

Seriously.

 

Mainstream media is dead.

I felt dirty enough clicking onto that link but when i did, coincidentally, a pop informed me my computer needed a deep clean. Its in the dishwasher as we speak. Please, please for the sake of us weak willed individuals, stop these links😢😢

Edited by TypoonJambo
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7 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

This morning the Daily Record or Keith Jackson in particular could of chosen to report how the Foundation of Hearts has gained more that 800 new and increased pledgers.

 

Instead he has ignored that and stated the end is near for Heart of Midlothian.🤣🤣

 

Seriously.

 

Mainstream media is dead.


They certainly want Hearts dead!! The tribalism in Scottish football is sickening!

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
5 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

So the timeline today is:

 

AM - 10 Championship clubs Zoom meeting.

 

PM - Presentation of Member’s Resolution to all 42 club.

 

Then they all go off and think about it, before coming back together to vote on the resolution a few days later. Is that correct?

 

If so, then I think the goalposts are about to change, and the resolution will be about the clubs splitting in to who can play a full season, who can play a shortened season behind closed doors, and who can’t play any kind of season behind closed doors and need to mothball.

 

It will then come down to whether or not consensus can be reached on some teams leap frogging each other in either direction to play in the division they are equipped to handle. Maybe this is where the permanent reconstruction teams will get their way? After we temporarily restructure to protect clubs by putting them where they are best placed to survive the crisis for a season, we then permanently restructure the divisions and start again from scratch. Still a minefield, and you have to factor in the stupid embarrassing ten/eleven in a row shit, and SKY deal etc, but I don’t see how else a resolution could tick enough boxes to be be passed.

To quote Provan,  who would have believed it,  its time for the SFA to step in, strongly support/advise,  on how 42 clubs survive,  and that may mean sacrifice for some to survive. 

 

For example,  you start the season and can't finish it,  it is off to the bottom League. Sweeten that a little with a system that it only takes 2 years and not 3 to get to the Premier. 

 

Glad to hear Maxwell talk innovation and difference. 

 

Perhaps as Tache had said they were hoping the clubs would sort it themselves,  they never will 

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The more anti Hearts stories in the weegie press the better.

 

This kind of mockery has spurred us on to respond in the past. It will do so again.

 

Personally the angrier I get the more money usually finds its way to Hearts. 

 

Keith Jackson is doing a grand job helping our fundraising.

 

 

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Stendelnator
11 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

This morning the Daily Record or Keith Jackson in particular could of chosen to report how the Foundation of Hearts has gained more that 800 new and increased pledgers.

 

Instead he has ignored that and stated the end is near for Heart of Midlothian.🤣🤣

 

Seriously.

 

Mainstream media is dead.


He isn’t wrong though. How does the club survive if we have no income until January at the earliest outside of £150,000 a month? Our wage bill is probably 8x that. 

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12 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

Hearts case is conservatively put at £3 million. Well above the Sheriff court. During Covid there are only 3 instances in which the Court of Session will act. The only one that Hearts can pursue is an interim interdict.

There is nothing temporary about an interim interdict that involves a cease and desist order.

 

The sheriff court has exclusive jurisdiction below £100,000. Above that and you can choose sheriff court or session court. (Personally, I’d say Session Court all along, but there is an option.)


An interim interdict is a temporary interdict; only an interdict (Scots law version of the English “injunction”) is permanent. An interim interdict can be granted if the court agrees there is a primary facie case (ie a case that looks on the face if it to be valid) and where the pursuer would face harm if the action were not ceased.

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hmfc_steve
2 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

The more anti Hearts stories in the weegie press the better.

 

This kind of mockery has spurred us on to respond in the past. It will do so again.

 

Personally the angrier I get the more money usually finds its way to Hearts. 

 

Keith Jackson is doing a grand job helping our fundraising.

 

 

quite true ... each time I read a negative story on us ... I up it £1  🙂

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6 hours ago, johnnythejambo said:

As a season ticket from the early 70's I look with amusement at the folk wanting an 18 or 16 team league playing each other just twice. Well we had an 18 team league back then and boy it was not exciting if you were stuck in the middle of it. Pretty boring in fact. And another thing as a season ticket holder the games that excite me and get the atmosphere going is the ones against the old firm, wee team and possibly the sheep so to advocate halving those games fills me with dread. So instead of fired up, get into then games we replace with matches against Morton, Queen of South etc. Jesus no thanks!!!

That was over 40 years ago. Time to try again.

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4 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:


He isn’t wrong though. How does the club survive if we have no income until January at the earliest outside of £150,000 a month? Our wage bill is probably 8x that. 

So according to you our monthly wage bill is £1.2 million are you on crack??

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4 minutes ago, rory78 said:

So according to you our monthly wage bill is £1.2 million are you on crack??

At last set of accounts, total staff expenses were in region of £8.2m.

 

Players would take up majority but we have hundreds of employees.

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Byyy The Light
40 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

And playing the same teams 4 times a season is super duper exciting. 


6 if you get them in the cups. Sometimes 3 games in 2 weeks against the same team. Haud me back...

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Stendelnator
6 minutes ago, rory78 said:

So according to you our monthly wage bill is £1.2 million are you on crack??


Maybe not quite as high as that. Our wage bill for the year at the end of of 2019 was over £8m. We spent a lot of money this season. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a £10m wage bill for the season. 
 

But sure, ignore the actual point I was making. 

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jambodan1998
14 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:


He isn’t wrong though. How does the club survive if we have no income until January at the earliest outside of £150,000 a month? Our wage bill is probably 8x that. 

Well we have season ticket sales and income from sponsorship and shirt sales ect...

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11 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

That was over 40 years ago. Time to try again.


Bit like Brexit. 
 

:lol: 

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Fxxx the SPFL
2 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:


Maybe not quite as high as that. Our wage bill for the year at the end of of 2019 was over £8m. We spent a lot of money this season. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a £10m wage bill for the season. 
 

But sure, ignore the actual point I was making. 

you're guessing at ten million and even if it was that equates to £850k a month and if FoH was to put our £150k or whatever it is now towards it season ticket money and our mystery benefactors will pony up. AB has already stated that she is not too worried about finances.

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Fxxx the SPFL
4 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Place reeks again. 

it certainly does time for the powers that be to start punting interlopers

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Seymour M Hersh
30 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

This morning the Daily Record or Keith Jackson in particular could of chosen to report how the Foundation of Hearts has gained more that 800 new and increased pledgers.

 

Instead he has ignored that and stated the end is near for Heart of Midlothian.🤣🤣

 

Seriously.

 

Mainstream media is dead.

 

This is what happens when you give someone with an IQ about the same as their age a computer and allow them to write things. That clown wasn't even clever enough to get his twitter name correct. 

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9 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:


Maybe not quite as high as that. Our wage bill for the year at the end of of 2019 was over £8m. We spent a lot of money this season. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a £10m wage bill for the season. 
 

But sure, ignore the actual point I was making. 


We can assume I think with the staff on furlough, reduced players wages and out of contract players leaving that our staff costs are 30-40% lower than last year.

 

We will also have other reduced costs with a stadium not needing as high running costs. 
 

We rent Riccarton - I wonder if we have done anything about those costs?

 

On the plus side we are slowly selling season tickets and can find additional many from FOH and we have our benefactors and club shop sales

Edited by Jammy T
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Seymour M Hersh
4 minutes ago, jambodan1998 said:

Well we have season ticket sales and income from sponsorship and shirt sales ect...

 

Benefactors as well I would suggest to the hobo. 

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Everybody Loves Baz!
4 minutes ago, jambodan1998 said:

Well we have season ticket sales and income from sponsorship and shirt sales ect...

Aye, but ignore the point he was trying to make.......

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21 minutes ago, hmfc_steve said:

quite true ... each time I read a negative story on us ... I up it £1  🙂

You must be up to about £500 a month now then.

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Stendelnator
3 minutes ago, Jammy T said:


We can assume I think with the staff on furlough, reduced players wages and out of contract players leaving that our staff costs are 30-40% lower than last year.

 

We will also have other reduced costs with a stadium not needing as high running costs. 
 

We rent Riccarton - I wonder if we have done anything about those costs?

 

On the plus side we are slowly selling season tickets and can find additional many from FOH and we have our benefactors and club shop sales


The furlough scheme will also be ending sooner than that, as well as reducing to 60%. 

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