SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Kiwidoug]

2 hours ago, Walter Bishop said:

Foundation of Hearts

 

@The_FOH

 

Heartfelt thanks to all who've made a new pledge, increased an existing pledge, or made a one-off donation recently. Today, that number has risen by 125; over the weekend, the figure is 254; since SPFL called the leagues 535; since lockdown 823. Breathtaking. #pledgeforlife

I honestly believe that incredible statements like this not only make a significant number of other clubs and their supporters envious but it also makes them angry.

 

No. 1 on that list of clubs is Hibernian and we see that through the actions of the club and the incendiary comments of a significant section of their supporters.

 

It could actually be the FoH which lands us in the championship but no problem.  We will return with a vengeance.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, Jambo66 said:

The Partick Thistle QC

With the greatest of respect, we’ve no idea who that was - and despite the advice, Thistle chose not to proceed.

 

I’m wary of people wanting us to hurry to the courts to stick one in the SPFL’s eye, only to find out that we lose and receive a hefty bill.

[Hagar the Horrible]

6 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

I have pretty much always wanted to get a day in court. Scottish football needs reform. The best way to achieve that given the blatant corruption that permeates the whole stinking edifice of the SPFL, is for the courts to crucify them.

This for me. Lets be clear... none if us know each other. We are a large group all apart from some interlopers have a live of Hearts and the game. Its been said that 10 lawyers can have 10 views. Yet thousands of individual football fans share the same views:

The game is corrupt 

Celtic are behind the corruption (this one).

Lawwell in particular.

Donkey is corrupt .

One third of clubs confirm its corrupt .

No investigation 

Ian Maxwell is doing nothing for the game in its biggest crisis

Donkey caused the crisis.

Dundee were got at.

Hibs are shite.

 

When such a large collective feel the same. There is something wrong. How many other football fans feel the same way outside the OF and Hibs?

[Mr Rabbit]

28 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

The problem with that post is that you are doing exactly what you suggest others with a different view are doing.

 

You have absolutely no justification for saying that overturning the vote is fanciful. Now this may be your view, but in my opinion, you are wrong. My view is backed up by the opinion of a QC. Your opinion is backed up by what?

Appreciate that and that’s why I included that it was my opinion. Others have been passing off information as fact.

 

You’re quite entitled to your view and you’re right basing your opinion on someone who is an expert in their field is a sensible thing to do. However I wouldn’t believe that a QC would say that Celtic’s titles will be removed and the league will be null and voided just that we have a strong case.

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Correct they did say that but like I said if it was as cut and dry as some are making out the money put into legal proceedings would be recuperated and they would avoid cost of their expulsion.

 

It wasn't just a financial decision though, MR, as I mentioned. Their action would still have most likely prevented other clubs from getting their SPFL payout and they seemed keen that this wasn't something they would allow to happen.

[jr ewing]

1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:

FOH

Would rather we kept the two separate. 

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

With the greatest of respect, we’ve no idea who that was - and despite the advice, Thistle chose not to proceed.

 

I’m wary of people wanting us to hurry to the courts to stick one in the SPFL’s eye, only to find out that we lose and receive a hefty bill.

From the opinion that was released a month ago?

 

David Thomson QC

[Ethan Hunt]

5 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

I’m all for us fighting our corner and agree that if we are failed by our league again then we need to fight this via the courts! 
 

Correct they did say that but like I said if it was as cut and dry as some are making out the money put into legal proceedings would be recuperated and they would avoid cost of their expulsion.

There was a video interview with Gerry Britton (no longer available on the BBC). He basically said they were prepared to take it on the chin for the greater good of Scottish football. He also said that subsequently, having seen how things had developed - and I would confidently say he meant the exact effects of COVID19 and how some clubs/people have conducted themselves - Partick Thistle’s very existence is being threatened and they will not rule out legal action. If reconstruction is kb’d I’d be amazed if we didn’t have a joint action with them and Stranraer, whose Chairman has already stated they will fight it.

 

All three clubs have stated they intend to fight. Now it’s all about timing and making sure all your guns are pointing in the same direction.

[Mr Rabbit]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It wasn't just a financial decision though, MR, as I mentioned. Their action would still have most likely prevented other clubs from getting their SPFL payout and they seemed keen that this wasn't something they would allow to happen.

The money has been allocated now so surely they would revisit?

[Jambo66]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

With the greatest of respect, we’ve no idea who that was - and despite the advice, Thistle chose not to proceed.

 

I’m wary of people wanting us to hurry to the courts to stick one in the SPFL’s eye, only to find out that we lose and receive a hefty bill.

With the greatest of respect? I have used that phrase only once in my entire professional career. Pretty insulting - especially since we know exactly who the QC in question is.

Partick Thistle probably can't afford to even raise an action, far less take it all the way.

[Jambo66]

5 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Appreciate that and that’s why I included that it was my opinion. Others have been passing off information as fact.

 

You’re quite entitled to your view and you’re right basing your opinion on someone who is an expert in their field is a sensible thing to do. However I wouldn’t believe that a QC would say that Celtic’s titles will be removed and the league will be null and voided just that we have a strong case.

To be fair, no-one gives a flying shit about the title other than the bigot brothers.

[luckydug]

7 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Is that not what we were wanting to do initially as well and our position has changed as each avenue has been closed off?!
 

Whilst admittedly not knowing all the ins and outs of Dutch football. Both the clubs will suffer at not being promoted albeit I agree it’s not the same as a team being demoted. However if either team had been relegated last season or had invested a lot of money to get promoted in one season they too would suffer massively. 

It is not the same.

Even if other nations are demoting teams before the season ended it would only be comparible if the affected clubs were being denied reasonable compensation. 

When that happens and is supported legally then we can compare. 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

40 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Sod off, you are never a Hearts supporter, not in a million years. What success, a battle to finish in top 6. 

 

Burn this ****ing league Hearts, burn them all.

Got to agree. 

 

Trolls,  far too many,  a good clearance needed

[brunoatemyhamster]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

Is that possible? 

Our court proceedings scuppering the start of the season and screwing their precious SKY contract. 

Only one problem if we were to lose not only would we have the SPFL costs to pay would SKY go after us or the SPFL.? 

Must admit the thought of ****ing up their fixture lists gives me a quiet smile☺. 

From what I've read on here( I know), the new contract starts in August. I take it when the season was meant to start. Anything that delays that would probably mean a renegotiation. 

Doesn't bother me in the slightest, since we've been " relegated". 

Wouldnt  affect us one bit. 

Any proceeding that delay the season starting and activating that new contract would worry the Premiership surely. That's their only guaranteed income. 

Fanciful for all that to come true, but the fear of that might have been enough to bring them back. 

It could happen, probably not, but could. 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

The money has been allocated now so surely they would revisit?

 

Reconstruction talks are now afoot and Hearts have expressed intent on defending our interests with legal action if need be.

 

The landscape is different. No need to revisit quite yet.

[Mr Rabbit]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

There was a video interview with Gerry Britton (no longer available on the BBC). He basically said they were prepared to take it on the chin for the greater good of Scottish football. He also said that subsequently, having seen how things had developed - and I would confidently say he meant the exact effects of COVID19 and how some clubs/people have conducted themselves - Partick Thistle’s very existence is being threatened and they will not rule out legal action. If reconstruction is kb’d I’d be amazed if we didn’t have a joint action with them and Stranraer, whose Chairman has already stated they will fight it.

 

All three clubs have stated they intend to fight. Now it’s all about timing and making sure all your guns are pointing in the same direction.

Didn’t read that before my last post. As I’ve mentioned I think this would be the best option for us to take if reconstruction fails. Coming together as three clubs rather than individually.  
 

I still don’t think that it’s as cut and dry as others have mentioned.

[Ethan Hunt]

2 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Didn’t read that before my last post. As I’ve mentioned I think this would be the best option for us to take if reconstruction fails. Coming together as three clubs rather than individually.  
 

I still don’t think that it’s as cut and dry as others have mentioned.

Nothing is ever cut and dried, but in this case it has a right few people absolutely shitting themselves about it.

 

 

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It is not the same.

Even if other nations are demoting teams before the season ended it would only be comparible if the affected clubs were being denied reasonable compensation. 

When that happens and is supported legally then we can compare. 

 

 

I personally consider that we couldn't compare court cases across countries even then.

 

I'm quite sure that no other league had a (reportedly final) vote withdrawn and then recast in an opposite manner, nor the current results of the ballot revealed early. Nor any of the other administration and organisational anomalies pointed out in the Rangers dossier.

Edited May 24, 2020 by redjambo

[Paint the town maroon]

47 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Sod off, you are never a Hearts supporter, not in a million years. What success, a battle to finish in top 6. 

 

Burn this ****ing league Hearts, burn them all.

Really? Was that called for? I just questioned the suggestion that there has been a glamour for a change in the current set up. I haven’t seen it and it’s never got even close to a proposal. 

[luckydug]

26 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

I’m all for us fighting our corner and agree that if we are failed by our league again then we need to fight this via the courts! 
 

Correct they did say that but like I said if it was as cut and dry as some are making out the money put into legal proceedings would be recuperated and they would avoid cost of their expulsion.

Could the Hearts case be used as a test case ? 

 

[Hagar the Horrible]

Huddersfield owner Phil Hodgkinson. Thinks that 50/60 clubs will go bust. And it is not even been discussed how they will get through it. It will be worse up here proportionately as we onlt have clubs surviving on cash gates. He also thinks players need to take 50% wage cuts or end up with nothing. One thing we share is everyone is sticking their heads in the sand. What is Maxwell and Donkey doing to preserve the game? Well its whatever Liewell tells them what to do.

 

take heed Wishart and the MSM!

[Paint the town maroon]

7 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Ypu are so ****ing negative whenever it comes to someone suggesting solutions. While you appear happy for Hearts to be shafted and left to play a few games inanseason, the vast majority, and that is everyone other than you, want to see a solution that means all clubs can play next season.

 

**** your other issues, Hearts first.

Seriously? I didn’t realise it was a crime to have a sensible debate but that’s not your style is I. **** everyone more like. 
 

if we mix the championship clubs able to play with reconstruction it’s a total shit show. It is almost impossible as it is to get a consensus on reconstruction structures. But the original suggestion was we should just jump to a 16 team league as 4 teams in championship will be able to start season. 
 

I only want what is fair for Hearts and that is a premier place or worse case significant compensation.i am trying to debate how possible that is given the moving parts. Part of that means we will need to negotiate with clubs and maintain a professional approach not burn everyone.

[Last Laff]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

It would be in sky’s best interests to have the of games behind closed doors- would put sir viewing figures up

No it wouldn’t.  They attract more viewers with a full stadium than what’s going on in Germany the now. 

[husref musemic]

40 minutes ago, Rods said:

iAnother theory I have been thinking about on why the dramatic change of heart happend regarding reconstruction is that Dundee effectively changed their vote for reconstruction. Nelms said as much in his interview to the press and journal. He was fooled of course and we all knew that except him. 
 

Perhaps Nelms has intimidated to Doncaster that reconstruction has to happen or he spills the beans.

 

That would make the original vote null and void and spell big trouble for you know who.

 

 

The SPFL made Nelms the king maker...happily

 

...but their vote was stuck in the spam filter. What a whopper

 

Dundee are mugs but the SPFL think were buttoned up the back. These crooks need exposed.

Edited May 24, 2020 by husref musemic

[Nookie Bear]

10 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

No it wouldn’t.  They attract more viewers with a full stadium than what’s going on in Germany the now. 

 

But it will give the OF an opportunity to sell 220k tickets for 4 games which they may not have done otherwise, and also boost their profile over and above everyone else, as usual.

 

I hope it is just a rumour because my seethe levels are already dangerously high!

[jr ewing]

28 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Didn’t read that before my last post. As I’ve mentioned I think this would be the best option for us to take if reconstruction fails. Coming together as three clubs rather than individually.  
 

I still don’t think that it’s as cut and dry as others have mentioned.

And any other clubs that are unhappy with the decisions being made. 

[S Form]

56 minutes ago, Drumjambo said:

 

I have too say S,  I keep laughing at this coming together mantra.  What they mean is accept our way or F off - which has nothing to do with compromise or looking out for each other or agreeing a strategy that may protect clubs Its just - GET BACK IN YER BOX 

 

Also they are too stupid to see that ALL clubs are in serious trouble Sevco and Smelltic more than most - just look at their wage bills and tell me different If no fans can access Ibroke of Dark heid for months how long before they are "squealing like pigs" Even with the legendary 30 million war chest Celtic have, it doesn't go far on a 60 million wage bill with deferrals to pay 

Whenever this pandemic started to affect Scottish football those in charge should have said that they would do everything they could to make sure it did not negatively impact any club. That would still have given scope for clubs at the top of the leagues to be rewarded. However they did not have the wit or foresight to look beyond the narrow goal of ‘ending’ the season. It does seem like Ann Budge was the only one in a senior position who realised the magnitude of what was in store.

[OldGorgie]

1 hour ago, Gilamas said:

Not quite. The sheriff court has exclusive jurisdiction for civil matters up to £100,000. Above that and there is a choice of sheriff court or Session Court. (In reality, likely to be Session Court due to the potential impact and consequences).

 

Separately, an interim interdict is a temporary stoppage - to prevent someone from doing something (eg starting a new league season! Or preventing them from transferring money) which might undermine the rationale of the case you are trying to bring. A request for an interim interdict can be made at sheriff court or session court level ... and in either case is followed up by a court case on the merits of the matter itself.

Hearts case is conservatively put at £3 million. Well above the Sheriff court. During Covid there are only 3 instances in which the Court of Session will act. The only one that Hearts can pursue is an interim interdict.

There is nothing temporary about an interim interdict that involves a cease and desist order.

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by OldGorgie

[Deevers]

57 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

**** off. He joined the forum and has done nothing but criticise Hearts from day one. If the cap fits

He’s obviously not a Hearts supporter. I really can’t understand why he’s still here given the trolling that goes on with him.  

[andfultons baggio]

There is an inherent risk with any litigation but we will have been backed into a corner with no choice should reconstruction 2.0 fail. Along with a Thistle and Stranraer to lesser degrees being punished for a pandemic. Collateral damage in.the frenzy to anoint Celtic. I hope whatever Dundee were offered to change their vote was worth it as the ivory towers are going to start toppling like dominoes shortly.

[Thomaso]

18 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

The SPFL made Nelms the king maker...happily

 

...but their vote was stuck in the spam filter. What a whopper

 

Dundee are mugs but the SPFL think were buttoned up the back. These crooks need exposed.

Spot on!

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

So it would appear the answer to being accused of squealing like pigs is to..........err..........squeal like pigs ?

No ROAR like feckin Lions!!!

[Rods]

29 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

The SPFL made Nelms the king maker...happily

 

...but their vote was stuck in the spam filter. What a whopper

 

Dundee are mugs but the SPFL think were buttoned up the back. These crooks need exposed.

Correct 

 

It may turn out Dundee have the dirt and are willing to dish if reconstruction does not go through.

 

Aberdeen, Hibs and St Mirren will be told to vote for the plan by their paymasters Celtic as the whole thing could come tumbling down.

 

I hope it does 

[Ethan Hunt]

13 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

No ROAR like feckin Lions!!!

If you’re a Hearts supporter 😉

[Whatever]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

**** off. He joined the forum and has done nothing but criticise Hearts from day one. If the cap fits

He’s also not Hearts.

[husref musemic]

https://www.voetbalprimeur.be/nieuws/929511/waasland-beveren-hoopt-op-nietigverklaring-dankzij-precedenten-uit-woii.htmler

 

Google translated :

 

Waasland-Beveren pulls out its entire legal arsenal to avoid the forced relegation to First Division B. That decision came nine days ago at the Pro League General Assembly. The merger club claims that there are examples from the past.

 

Waasland-Beveren does not immediately think of the recent past of Belgian football, but returns to ... World War II. When Nazi Germany invaded our country between 1940 and 1945, the ongoing competition was halted twice. Then a general annulment of all previous results was made.

 

At the BAS, Waasland-Beveren will quote those 'precedents' to save its own skin, Sportwereld reports . Whether the two situations can be compared is up to the judges to decide. In any case, Waasland-Beveren demands that the entire 2019-2020 vintage be canceled. This would save her own skin, but such a verdict would also mean that Club Brugge , for example, cannot call itself a national champion. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by husref musemic

[Last Laff]

40 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

But it will give the OF an opportunity to sell 220k tickets for 4 games which they may not have done otherwise, and also boost their profile over and above everyone else, as usual.

 

I hope it is just a rumour because my seethe levels are already dangerously high!

Don’t get me wrong mate it would be farcical should it happen but it’s beneficial to Sky - not that they will have any say in it at all as long as there’s contractually four games to broadcast. 

[Mikey1874]

12 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

https://www.voetbalprimeur.be/nieuws/929511/waasland-beveren-hoopt-op-nietigverklaring-dankzij-precedenten-uit-woii.htmler

 

Google translated :

 

Waasland-Beveren pulls out its entire legal arsenal to avoid the forced relegation to First Division B. That decision came nine days ago at the Pro League General Assembly. The merger club claims that there are examples from the past.

 

Waasland-Beveren does not immediately think of the recent past of Belgian football, but returns to ... World War II. When Nazi Germany invaded our country between 1940 and 1945, the ongoing competition was halted twice. Then a general annulment of all previous results was made.

 

At the BAS, Waasland-Beveren will quote those 'precedents' to save its own skin, Sportwereld reports . Whether the two situations can be compared is up to the judges to decide. In any case, Waasland-Beveren demands that the entire 2019-2020 vintage be canceled. This would save her own skin, but such a verdict would also mean that Club Brugge , for example, cannot call itself a national champion. 

 

One view of what happened in Belgium 

 

 

[Unknown user]

33 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

No ROAR like feckin Lions!!!

 

We don't always agree, but I'm right with you here. We fund the action, we take them down, that way even if we lose the club don't have to foot the bill.

If they won't give us respect, we take it.

[Leveins Battalion]

The best way to defeat your enemy is to make them your friend.

 

I have no doubt HMFC are working tirelessly behind the scenes and have sound legal advice.

 

When justice is served we will remember all of the thieves of the night,the immoral leeches intent on screwing HMFC over in return for a penny and 'oneupmanship'

 

Karma is a wonderful thing.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

From the opinion that was released a month ago?

 

David Thomson QC

I take it back. Will have a look into his track record 

[Ethan Hunt]

25 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

https://www.voetbalprimeur.be/nieuws/929511/waasland-beveren-hoopt-op-nietigverklaring-dankzij-precedenten-uit-woii.htmler

 

Google translated :

 

Waasland-Beveren pulls out its entire legal arsenal to avoid the forced relegation to First Division B. That decision came nine days ago at the Pro League General Assembly. The merger club claims that there are examples from the past.

 

Waasland-Beveren does not immediately think of the recent past of Belgian football, but returns to ... World War II. When Nazi Germany invaded our country between 1940 and 1945, the ongoing competition was halted twice. Then a general annulment of all previous results was made.

 

At the BAS, Waasland-Beveren will quote those 'precedents' to save its own skin, Sportwereld reports . Whether the two situations can be compared is up to the judges to decide. In any case, Waasland-Beveren demands that the entire 2019-2020 vintage be canceled. This would save her own skin, but such a verdict would also mean that Club Brugge , for example, cannot call itself a national champion. 

“Entire legal arsenal”. Beautiful!

[kila]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

One view of what happened in Belgium 

 

 

 

He writes good pieces.

 

Things in Belgium sound quite ****ed too.

 

All UEFA had to do was strongly recommend temporary/permanent league reconstruction to prevent teams being kicked out of their unfinished leagues.

 

Are we going to end up with the SPFL leading the way with reconstruction (because of fear of what court action would reveal)?

 

 

 

[Gambo]

Are we needed in the top division so that the Scottish Cup can be completed?

 

Whilst i think.it should be cancelled for season 2019/20, we know one team in particular are desperate for its completion, but that cant be done if one expelled team are not playing competitive football.

 

???

[NaturalOrder74]

7 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Are we needed in the top division so that the Scottish Cup can be completed?

 

Whilst i think.it should be cancelled for season 2019/20, we know one team in particular are desperate for its completion, but that cant be done if one expelled team are not playing competitive football.

 

???

they’ll just delay it as long as they need, just play it after they win the 2020 one or whenever is most convenient for them 

[Big Slim Stylee]

1 hour ago, Paint the town maroon said:

Really? Was that called for? I just questioned the suggestion that there has been a glamour for a change in the current set up. I haven’t seen it and it’s never got even close to a proposal. 

They haven’t a clue what to do! It’s a Ballroom Blitz I tell ya!

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Big Slim Stylee

[1971fozzy]

10 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Are we needed in the top division so that the Scottish Cup can be completed?

 

Whilst i think.it should be cancelled for season 2019/20, we know one team in particular are desperate for its completion, but that cant be done if one expelled team are not playing competitive football.

 

???

they won’t give a shite when it’s played. Prob 2022 and they won’t care. As long as Celtic*  get their quadruple shite

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 hours ago, Derek From Stenhouse said:

Old firm games to be held in 2021 only so that means other teams will play Rangers and Celtic at home in 2020 behind closed doors... Suck on that teams that voted for more celtic and rangers games... 

 

Of all the games in the world that would benefit from being held behind closed doors...

 

Not even a global pandemic can stop those prehistoric bigot fests it seems.

[Ethan Hunt]

10 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Are we needed in the top division so that the Scottish Cup can be completed?

 

Whilst i think.it should be cancelled for season 2019/20, we know one team in particular are desperate for its completion, but that cant be done if one expelled team are not playing competitive football.

 

???

Or the expelled team have had to cut their cloth according to the league they unfairly found themselves in.  Some want to call it a tainted league title. Would they also want to call it a tainted Scottish cup win?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

they’ll just delay it as long as they need, just play it after they win the 2020 one or whenever is most convenient for them 

 

Just give the cup to Celtic now. After all, they'll probably win it anyhow.

 

Isn't that how football in Scotland works these days? "Will probably do it" or "Probably won't do it" seems to be enough to award titles and relegate teams. Why bother playing any games in fact. Celtic are clearly the best team with the most money. Let's just award them everything at the start of the season. All the teams can vote on who "deserves" what.

Edited May 24, 2020 by ToqueJambo