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Fozzyonthefence
6 minutes ago, 1874jrs said:

With Davie Provan's article today think it's dawned on Celtic  they will pay most for any successful court action by hearts. Watch for more backing reconstruction. It will only happen if the old firm force a number of clubs hand


Why would Celtic pay more than the other clubs?  It’s the SPFL we would be taking to court not Celtic. 

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1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Why would Celtic pay more than the other clubs?  It’s the SPFL we would be taking to court not Celtic. 

I think that’s right. Only the prize money is weighted. Any court awarded compensation would be against the spfl who would collect the cash on a 1/41 basis by some means. I don’t see how they can weight the payments to make top clubs pay more. 

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1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Why would Celtic pay more than the other clubs?  It’s the SPFL we would be taking to court not Celtic. 

 

If the SPFL were held liable to pay money to Hearts in compensation, I don't think they would get away internally with sharing that sum equally between all clubs given the financial disparity between the clubs. They would have to find some fairer way of doing it and that would almost necessarily involve Celtic, as the richest team, taking a greater hit than other teams.

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Bazzas right boot
5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


You’re right, the 12 team set up is the worst we could possibly have but some clubs have said they think it works!

 

Unfortunately we have a culture here where clubs are only interested in change if it benefits them.  Add the resentment that some clubs have because they’re being forced to rush through changes just because it is to save Hearts, there is no chance of getting voted through.  I appreciate AB has to go through the motions but I hope she doesn’t waste much time with it so we can quickly move onto the next stage before the fixture lists come  out. 

 

 

I get why it won't be vote through, you are 100% correct. 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Tbh, teams might no benefit, but they are also not affected by it. 

 

14 teams also gets an equal fixture list, same number of home and away fixtures. 

 

What is the disadvantages of  a 14 team league over a 12 team set up? 

I can't think of any? 

Diluted prize money. 

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2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

If the SPFL were held liable to pay money to Hearts in compensation, I don't think they would get away internally with sharing that sum equally between all clubs given the financial disparity between the clubs. They would have to find some fairer way of doing it and that would almost necessarily involve Celtic, as the richest team, taking a greater hit than other teams.

Why would celtic accept that? Why would they legally be more liable than Elgin or Brechin? 

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Bazzas right boot
5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Why would Celtic pay more than the other clubs?  It’s the SPFL we would be taking to court not Celtic. 

 

 

Very conceivable they would, if it was a % from each clubs payout it would mean a larger sum from them and diminishing from there. 

 

Say it was 10%,  10% from Celtics pot is more than 10% from Hamiltons

 

 

Ofc, they could just split it £ wise. 

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It would hit the pot of money the spfl have celtic winning the league  get the biggest percentage of the pot 

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5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Why would Celtic pay more than the other clubs?  It’s the SPFL we would be taking to court not Celtic. 

 

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think that’s right. Only the prize money is weighted. Any court awarded compensation would be against the spfl who would collect the cash on a 1/41 basis by some means. I don’t see how they can weight the payments to make top clubs pay more. 

 

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

If the SPFL were held liable to pay money to Hearts in compensation, I don't think they would get away internally with sharing that sum equally between all clubs given the financial disparity between the clubs. They would have to find some fairer way of doing it and that would almost necessarily involve Celtic, as the richest team, taking a greater hit than other teams.

 

Not having a go but this has been discussed in the last 2 or 3 pages.

 

Just trying to stop it getting mentioned ad nauseum.

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2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

If the SPFL were held liable to pay money to Hearts in compensation, I don't think they would get away internally with sharing that sum equally between all clubs given the financial disparity between the clubs. They would have to find some fairer way of doing it and that would almost necessarily involve Celtic, as the richest team, taking a greater hit than other teams.

Fairness doesn't come into it. All teams would be liable for the same amount. 

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3 hours ago, Heartsofgold said:

Roy McGregor saying he previously voted for a 12 team top league for them fans’!!!  Is that the same fans that want change in the league structures Roy?!?  . 

 

Yeah I heard that too, surely nonsense.  The guy was talking shit.  It all translated to me  like they are voting no on Monday.

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42 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I suspect you are correct on reconstruction and it will be voted down. Following that I expect her to formally appeal direct to the SPFL for compensation. That’s probably not going to yield a result but we need to force them to say no to that to go to the next stage.

 

We might then refer the case to CAS. Very little said about CAS so far.

 

‘Going to Court’ is a classic bargaining position, used frequently by companies in dispute but rarely actually followed through.

 

I think she MIGHT take that threat a stage further by lodging papers hoping to secure an out of court deal. If we get our bluff called on that we’ll be faced with a huge decision. All in or fold. I think she’ll fold.

agree with most of what you have said only problem is the CSA had a back log of cases and it would be 10 months before any new cases are heard....

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Bazzas right boot
1 minute ago, jr ewing said:

Diluted prize money. 

 

It's not tho. 

13th and 14th just get the money that would go to 1sr and 2nd.

1-42 same money as planned. 

 

Even if 44 clubs the last two clubs just get what they get just now in the lower league. 

 

The pot can be diluted or it can be the same. 

 

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1 minute ago, 1874jrs said:

It would hit the pot of money the spfl have celtic winning the league  get the biggest percentage of the pot 

Aye they do but why would they be expected to pay more than anybody else. The would have won the prize money. I don’t see the argument at all. 

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1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

It's not tho. 

13th and 14th just get the money that would go to 1sr and 2nd.

1-42 same money as planned. 

 

Even if 44 clubs the last two clubs just get what they get just now in the lower league. 

 

The pot can be diluted or it can be the same. 

 

 

Correct.

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Bazzas right boot
Just now, GinRummy said:

Aye they do but why would they be expected to pay more than anybody else. The would have won the prize money. I don’t see the argument at all. 

 

If it's a % from each clubs Intial prize fund, say 10%.

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Will the money for us and others not come from the sky money?

 

There is a 25 million pot coming to dig into

 

As people are rightly saying these chairmen are not the sharpest and don't really see the bigger picture.

 

We will come back stronger and a lot of these teams will stagnate/ go backwards.

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TyphoonJambo
3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:


My keyboard kept trying to autocorrect it to “**** off Provan”

😂😂😂

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1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Aye they do but why would they be expected to pay more than anybody else. The would have won the prize money. I don’t see the argument at all. 

 

They wouldn't be paying more, they would still get their share of the prize money (13.4% assuming they win the league) only that the prize pot would be reduced.

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12 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Why would Celtic pay more than the other clubs?  It’s the SPFL we would be taking to court not Celtic. 

They would 'pay' by losing their title if court action proved that Dundee's no vote should have stood though.  That would be priceless!

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1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

If it's a % from each clubs Intial prize fund, say 10%.

Yeah but that’s linking it to the prize money. It’s. A circular argument but I just don’t see how Celtic or rangers or Aberdeen etc.would accept that. I certainly wouldn’t want hearts to. Maybe they would do it that way but I don’t see it. 

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1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Court is a massive gamble we may not win and if we go to court and don’t win it’s going to cost us half a million pounds. 
 

No one at this stage should be preferring court to re-construction.

 

I don’t believe Ann Budge wants to go to court and I dont think she will until this plays out a bit further. 

Agreed, I don’t understand the faux confidence in succeeding if we go to court.

 

Whilst I don’t think for one second that reconstruction is likely with the shower of arseholes involved it’s still the most achievable option currently.

 

Although it’s still early days other court proceedings regarding this situation haven’t exactly went in favour of clubs in our situation.

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1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

They wouldn't be paying more, they would still get their share of the prize money (13.4% assuming they win the league) only that the prize pot would be reduced.

I do understand that. Percentage wise everybody would pay the same but liability, I’d think, would be and should be equal in cash terms. I could be wrong but just seems nuts for the spfl to take it out the prize money as a percentage to each prize winner, so to speak. 

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9 minutes ago, b-reed said:

agree with most of what you have said only problem is the CSA had a back log of cases and it would be 10 months before any new cases are heard....

Good to know. I’ll just stop paying for my kids then 🤪

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8 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Fairness doesn't come into it. All teams would be liable for the same amount. 

 

I didn't say that they wouldn't. Practical considerations would however ensure that the larger clubs paid more than the smaller ones. Given graygo's comments, however, I won't do this to death by going into details (I didn't know this had been discussed recently).

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Ethan Hunt
32 minutes ago, communist said:

 

We will just have see if it gets that far. I doubt it will. 

Ann Budge has laid her stall out in this part of the club statement:

 

As previously intimated the club has been taking legal advice throughout this process and are continuing to do so. We hope that the resolution being prepared will avoid the need to go down this route. Legal action would be both time consuming and expensive. However the cost to the club of relegation would outweigh these considerations.

 

To our supporters, we thank you for showing patience and continuing to back the club. We will continue to fight against what we believe is an unjust outcome.

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Bazzas right boot
Just now, graygo said:

 

Correct.

 

 

It's also not a reason to expel one club and promote another in it's place. 

 

If that's the defence at court then hopefully we get a date ASAP. 

 

-But we might get 2%-5% less money  for a season :munny:

 

 

So to mitigate that you voted a resolution through that caused one member 50% losses.... 

:vrface:

 

Oh, can I refer to the article regarding duty of care to all members. 

 

:silviodamn:

 

Regarding the resolution, the process, the lost votes and the timescales 

 

:hartley:

 

 

Please write the cheque to Queen Ann, Gorgie, Tynecastle... 

 

:fonzie:

 

 

 

Next case. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


No. The Council and Falkirk FC created a company that owned the stadium, with the Council putting in £3m. Since about ten years ago the football parts of the ground are owned by Falkirk FC. The council own some suites and facilities for conferences and the like. Point is, Falkirk we’re denied entry to the SPL because their stadium wasn’t 10k all seater. They built a new one with whatever help they could get and then gained entry when the SPL ditched its 10k rule and made it 6k instead. If I remember right, when Falkirk were first denied entry (saving Aberdeen from relegation), they actually had a capacity of 6k. They were denied the chance to build up their club with access to greater revenue streams that would have been available through SPL membership.


Many clubs suffered through trying to quickly erect stadia and stands to comply with a criteria that should have been better thought out and staged in from the beginning, in a country with clubs that have such small attendances. Plenty clubs had it even worse than that, and ended up in totally unserviceable levels of debt. Some of those clubs like Hibs had rich benefactors who saved them by making deals with the banks to write off those debts. Others folded. Some like ourselves struggled on with the debts as best we could, losing players below market value due to the pressure of servicing those debts, until eventually we went through admin. St Johnstone managed to escape all those sleepless nights over their very existence because they were gifted land and a stadium. Good for them, and you don’t grudge them it. What I do grudge, is this phallus you that they are some kind of well run club and that their lack of debt compared to others is down to some kind of shrewd and moral insistence on not accumulating debts. Easy to do that when you don’t have to shell out millions more than the material value of your club and team to build an all seater 10k stadium. The annoying thing about Cosgrove, is that he’s actually a bit of a Scottish Football history enthusiast, and he knows all of this. That means when he has a dog at our troubled past, and pontificates like his club are some kind of bastions of fair play and financial sense, he is doing it simply to be a dick.

Thanks for that. 👍

I remember Falkirk getting a raw deal due to the league insisting on 10k capacity.

It's a nice stadium which would be even better if the open end was covered. 

I always enjoy going there, I knew the council were involved with it but not to what extent. 

 

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Bazzas right boot
6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yeah but that’s linking it to the prize money. It’s. A circular argument but I just don’t see how Celtic or rangers or Aberdeen etc.would accept that. I certainly wouldn’t want hearts to. Maybe they would do it that way but I don’t see it. 

 

Could be either way. 

 

Aye, they might huff, but the other clubs would argue differently. 

 

Back to a bun fight again 

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3 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Agreed, I don’t understand the faux confidence in succeeding if we go to court.

 

Whilst I don’t think for one second that reconstruction is likely with the shower of arseholes involved it’s still the most achievable option currently.

 

Although it’s still early days other court proceedings regarding this situation haven’t exactly went in favour of clubs in our situation.

I think we’ll also need to bear in mind that if she doesn’t go to court, it’ll be because she was strongly advised by the legal team not to take the risk. At some point, not yet by any means, we might just need to accept defeat and get on with the future, whatever that holds and whatever parts of football are still intact.

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10 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I do understand that. Percentage wise everybody would pay the same but liability, I’d think, would be and should be equal in cash terms. I could be wrong but just seems nuts for the spfl to take it out the prize money as a percentage to each prize winner, so to speak. 

 

I posted this yesterday which I think gives the SPFL board the right to deduct any liabilities before dishing out what's left.

 

Edited to add that another poster disagrees with my interpretation.

 

Screenshot_20200523-184517.png

Edited by graygo
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Bazzas right boot
1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

I think we’ll also need to bear in mind that if she doesn’t go to court, it’ll be because she was strongly advised by the legal team not to take the risk. At some point, not yet by any means, we might just need to accept defeat and get on with the future, whatever that holds and whatever parts of football are still intact.

 

Agreed. 

Yeah, there's a chance if that. 

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6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I didn't say that they wouldn't. Practical considerations would however ensure that the larger clubs paid more than the smaller ones. Given graygo's comments, however, I won't do this to death by going into details (I didn't know this had been discussed recently).

 

Probably unfair of me to point out it had been discussed, very difficult to find the time to keep up with this thread.

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15 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Agreed, I don’t understand the faux confidence in succeeding if we go to court.

 

Whilst I don’t think for one second that reconstruction is likely with the shower of arseholes involved it’s still the most achievable option currently.

 

Although it’s still early days other court proceedings regarding this situation haven’t exactly went in favour of clubs in our situation.

The way the SPFL suddenly brought reconstruction back to table and the Old Firm allegedly in favour of it says to me that they know us, Partick and Stranraer have a strong case.

 

Something happened just before last weekend imo that seemed to change things.

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Ethan Hunt
21 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

If the SPFL were held liable to pay money to Hearts in compensation, I don't think they would get away internally with sharing that sum equally between all clubs given the financial disparity between the clubs. They would have to find some fairer way of doing it and that would almost necessarily involve Celtic, as the richest team, taking a greater hit than other teams.

It was suggested on here that Celtic have told other clubs that they will be on their own if it goes to legal action and that Celtic will only pay their share due.

 

I can’t remember who posted it or where they got that information.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

Agreed, I don’t understand the faux confidence in succeeding if we go to court.

 

Whilst I don’t think for one second that reconstruction is likely with the shower of arseholes involved it’s still the most achievable option currently.

 

Although it’s still early days other court proceedings regarding this situation haven’t exactly went in favour of clubs in our situation.

 

So why do you think that such confidence is "faux", Mr Rabbit? Do you have access to legal opinion that says so? Or is it just your hunch?

 

Also, which other court proceedings in the Scottish civil courts relating to clubs expelled from a league because that league was called early can you refer to? Not many, I would imagine.

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BelgeJambo
1 minute ago, Gambo said:

The way the SPFL suddenly brought reconstruction back to table and the Old Firm allegedly in favour of it says to me that they know us, Partick and Stranraer have a strong case.

 

Something happened just before last weekend imo that seemed to change things.

Agree mate

pay out money and agree to a compromise 

Edited by BelgeJambo
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2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Not listening to Sportsound, again, but good to see they have balanced panel of pundits who all want to **** Hearts and by proxy, Partick and Stranraer. 

 

Young has has been a count for years and Hartson is just a younger Pat Bonnar. Both have views on Celtic, Celtic and anything on Celtic.

 

**** Sportsound, **** Celtic, **** Young and Hartson, **** Scottish football. Go to court Hearts and burn this shit to the ground.

 

 

 

I am not alone in thinking what I heard on that shit show then.  Sums it up for me 👍

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13 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

 

Although it’s still early days other court proceedings regarding this situation haven’t exactly went in favour of clubs in our situation.

 

Which other court proceedings? 

 

The French one has been referred to a higher court, I'm not aware of others. 

And I'm not sure the French one is comparable to our situation either. 

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2 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

It was suggested on here that Celtic have told other clubs that they will be on their own if it goes to legal action and that Celtic will only pay their share due.

 

I can’t remember who posted it or where they got that information.

 

I didn't know that, but give up the chance to have a number of smaller clubs beholden to them for rescuing their asses from a big financial hit? Doesn't sound like the behaviour of top dogs to me.

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Old firm games to be held in 2021 only so that means other teams will play Rangers and Celtic at home in 2020 behind closed doors... Suck on that teams that voted for more celtic and rangers games... 

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Ethan Hunt
2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I didn't know that, but give up the chance to have a number of smaller clubs beholden to them for rescuing their asses from a big financial hit? Doesn't sound like the behaviour of top dogs to me.

It does if that top dog doesn’t want legal action and all the evidence being uncovered that said action would result in.

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2 hours ago, Rods said:

Macgregor and Fitzpatrick both out of reconstruction. 
 

Clearly this is just an attempt so we can say at least we tried.

 

Hopefully we name and shame the clubs that are against this so people can remember. 

 

To be honest if the clubs could decide on which order they would lick the OF arse they would.  As far as reconstruction goes to save us, Partick or Stranraer, just means they think that's one less club to worry about in the licking order.

 

 

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Just now, Ethan Hunt said:

It does if that top dog doesn’t want legal action and all the evidence being uncovered that said action would result in.

 

Ah, good point.

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1 minute ago, Derek From Stenhouse said:

Old firm games to be held in 2021 only so that means other teams will play Rangers and Celtic at home in 2020 behind closed doors... Suck on that teams that voted for more celtic and rangers games... 

 

Maybe that’s what’s changed.

 

Sky have been told no OF games for this year as decided by the police and the government. Sky have said ah that’s acceptable Celtic and Rangers tripe to Tynecastle plus a couple of Edinburgh Derbies should cover it till then.

 

Oh you have expelled Hearts hhhmm this old firm thing is a breach of contract we are scrapping this completely.

 

There has to be a reason for the rethink on reconstruction. 
 

 

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Bazzas right boot

Ross county now concerned about the lower divisions. 

 

 

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Hans von Luck

Would not be surprised if Sky told SPFL to get reconstruction back on the table as they want 4 Edinburgh Derby games on TV as not interested in Hamilton v St Mirren. 

All about viewing figures and £££. 

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2 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

There’s nothing in that to object to. Have I missed something when others have said he sounded like he was against reconstruction?

 

It's best to listen to him rather than read tripe.  What I got from listening was he's going to vote no.  You may think different, up to you.  He was on sportsound today.

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Jamboelite

Ross County, St Mirren, Hamilton and Hibs will all vote no.

 

I would imagine that they see the risk as small that we will take the SPFL to court and even if we do that we wont win.

 

A

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jamboelite
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  • jkbmod 9 changed the title to SPFL declare league (2019/20) due to Covid (Arbitration panel upholds SPFL decision )
  • davemclaren changed the title to SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

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